What happened when we paired up thousands of strangers to talk politics | Jochen Wegner

Prevoditelj: Martina Peraic Recezent: Sanda L

Now, this is Joanna.

Ovo je Joanna.

Joanna works at a university in Poland.

Joanna radi na sveučilištu u Poljskoj.

And one Saturday morning at 3am,

Jedne subote u 3 ujutro,

she got up, packed her rucksack

ustala se, spakirala ruksak

and traveled more than a thousand kilometers,

i krenula na put duži od tisuću kilometara

only to have a political argument

samo kako bi imala političku raspravu

with a stranger.

sa strancem.

His name is Christof, and he's a customer manager from Germany.

Ovo je Christof, on je voditelj odnosa s korisnicima iz Njemačke.

And the two had never met before.

Njih dvoje se nikada ranije nisu sreli.

They only knew that they were totally at odds over European politics,

Jedino što su znali jest da se potpuno razlikuju po pitanju europske politike,

over migration, or the relationship to Russia or whatever.

migracija, odnosa s Rusijom i tako dalje.

And they were arguing for almost one day.

I proveli su gotovo cijeli jedan dan u raspravljanju.

And after that, Joanna sent me a somewhat irritating email.

Nakon toga, Joanna mi je poslala pomalo iritirajuć email.

"That was really cool, and I enjoyed every single minute of it!"

"Ovo je bilo super i uživala sam u svakoj minuti!"

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So these are Tom from the UK and Nils from Germany.

Ovo su Tom iz Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva i Nils iz Njemačke.

They also were strangers,

I oni su bili stranci,

and they are both supporters of their local football team,

i obojica navijaju za svoju lokalnu nogometnu momčad,

as you may imagine, Borussia Dortmund and Tottenham Hotspurs.

možete pretpostaviti, Borussiju Dortmund i Tottenham Hotspurs.

And so they met on the very spot where football roots were invented,

Susreli su se točno na mjestu gdje su izumljeni korijeni nogometa,

on some field in Cambridge.

na nekom igralištu u Cambridgeu.

And they didn't argue about football,

I nisu se svađali oko nogometa,

but about Brexit.

nego oko Brexita.

And after talking for many hours about this contentious topic,

I nakon mnogo sati razgovora o toj sadržajnoj temi,

they also sent a rather unexpected email.

i oni su poslali prilično neočekivan email.

"It was delightful, and we both enjoyed it very much."

"Bilo je sjajno i obojica smo jako uživali u ovome."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So in spring 2019,

U proljeće 2019. godine,

more than 17,000 Europeans from 33 countries

više od 17 tisuća Europljana iz 33 države

signed up to have a political argument.

pristalo je održati političku raspravu.

Thousands crossed their borders to meet a stranger with a different opinion,

Tisuće ljudi prešlo je svoje granice da susretnu stranca s drugačijim mišljenjem

and they were all part of a project called "Europe Talks."

i svi su bili dio projekta "Europa govori".

Now, talking about politics amongst people with different opinions

Govorenje o politici među ljudima različitih stavova

has become really difficult,

postalo je vrlo složeno,

not only in Europe.

ne samo u Europi.

Families are splitting, friends no longer talk to each other.

Obitelji se raspadaju, prijatelji više ne pričaju.

We stay in our bubbles.

Ostajemo u svojim izoliranim mjehurićima.

And these so-called filter bubbles are amplified by social media,

A ti takozvani filtrirajući mjehurići još su pojačani društvenim mrežama,

but they are not, in the core, a digital product.

ali nisu, u osnovi, digitalni proizvod.

The filter bubble has always been there.

Filtrirajući mjehurić je oduvijek bio ovdje.

It's in our minds.

Postoji u našim umovima.

As many studies repeatedly have shown,

Kako su mnoge studije višestruko pokazale,

we, for example, ignore effects that contradict our convictions.

mi primjerice zanemarujemo učinke koji se protive našim uvjerenjima.

So correcting fake news is definitely necessary,

Zato je ispravljanje lažnih vijesti zasigurno potrebno,

but it's not sufficient to get a divided society

ali nije dovoljno kako bismo postigli da razdijeljeno društvo

to rethink itself.

ponovo promisli o sebi.

Fortunately, according to at least some research,

Srećom, kako pokazuje barem dio istraživanja,

there may be a simple way to get a new perspective:

možda postoji jednostavan način za dobivanje svježe perspektive:

a personal one-on-one discussion

osobne rasprave jedan-na-jedan,

with someone who doesn't have your opinion.

s nekim tko je drugačijeg stava od vašeg.

It enables you to see the world in a new way,

To vam omogućava da vidite svijet na nov način,

through someone else's eyes.

tuđim očima.

Now, I'm the editor of "ZEIT ONLINE,"

Ja sam urednik "Zeit Onlinea",

one of the major digital news organizations in Germany.

jedne od velikih organizacija za digitalno informiranje u Njemačkoj,

And we started what became "Europe Talks" as a really modest editorial exercise.

i započeli smo projekt "Europa govori" kao vrlo skromnu uredničku vježbu.

As many journalists,

Poput mnogih novinara,

we were impressed by Trump and by Brexit,

zaprepastio nas je Trump i Brexit,

and Germany was getting divided, too, especially over the issue of migration.

a i Njemačka je postajala razdijeljenom, posebno oko pitanja migracija.

So the arrival of more than a million refugees in 2015 and 2016

Pa je tako dolazak više od jednog milijuna izbjeglica 2015. i 2016. godine

dominated somewhat the debate.

ponešto prevladavao raspravom.

And when we were thinking about our own upcoming election in 2017,

A kada smo razmišljali o našim nadolazećim izborima 2017. godine,

we definitely knew that we had to reinvent the way we were dealing with politics.

sa sigurnošću smo znali da trebamo ponovo razmisliti kako se nosimo s politikom.

So digital nerds that we are,

Budući da smo digitalni štreberi,

we came up with obviously many very strange digital product ideas,

jasno je da su nam pale na pamet brojne očito vrlo čudne ideje za proizvode,

one of them being a Tinder for politics --

a jedna od njih bio je Tinder za politiku --

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

a dating platform for political opposites,

platforma za upoznavanje političkih protivnika,

a tool that could help get people together with different opinions.

alat koji bi mogao spojiti ljude različitih stavova.

And we decided to test it

Odlučili smo ga testirati

and launched what techies would call a "minimum viable product."

i izbacili smo ono što programeri zovu "proizvod najmanjih zahtjeva".

So it was really simple.

Znači da je bio vrlo jednostavan.

We called it "Deutschland spricht" -- "Germany Talks" --

Nazvali smo ga "Njemačka govori" --

and we started with that in May 2017.

i započeli u svibnju 2017. godine.

And it was really simple.

Bilo je vrlo jednostavno.

We used mainly Google Forms,

Koristili smo Google Forms,

a tool that each and every one of us here can use to make surveys online.

alat koji svatko od nas može upotrijebiti za izradu internetskih anketa.

And everywhere in our content, we embedded simple questions like this:

I posvuda u sadržaju ubacivali bismo jednostavna pitanja poput ovoga:

"Did Germany take in too many refugees?"

"Je li Njemačka prihvatila previše izbjeglica?"

You click yes or no.

Odaberete da ili ne.

We asked you more questions, like, "Does the West treat Russia fairly?"

Pitali smo još pitanja poput, "Odnosi li se Zapad pravedno prema Rusiji?",

or, "Should gay couples be allowed to marry?"

ili, "Treba li dozvoliti sklapanje braka istospolnim parovima?"

And if you answered all these questions, we asked one more question:

Ako ste odgovorili na sva pitanja, pitali bismo još jedno pitanje:

"Hey, would you like to meet a neighbor who totally disagrees with you?"

"Biste li željeli susresti susjeda koji se u potpunosti ne slaže s vama?"

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So this was a really simple experiment with no budget whatsoever.

I to je bio vrlo jednostavan pokus koji uopće nije bio financiran.

We expected some hundred-ish people to register,

Očekivali smo da se prijavi stotinjak ljudi,

and we planned to match them by hand, the pairs.

i namjeravali smo ih upariti ručno.

And after one day, 1,000 people had registered.

Nakon jednog dana prijavilo se 1000 ljudi.

And after some weeks, 12,000 Germans had signed up

Nakon nekoliko tjedana, 12 tisuća Nijemaca se prijavilo

to meet someone else with a different opinion.

da se susretnu s nekim suprotnog stava.

So we had a problem.

Tako da smo imali problem.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

We hacked a quick and dirty algorithm

Izhakirali smo brz i prljav algoritam

that would find the perfect Tinder matches,

koji bi pronašao idealne Tinderske parove,

like people living as close as possible having answered the questions

recimo ljudi koji stanuju što je bliže moguće, a odgovorili su na pitanja

as differently as possible.

što je različitije moguće.

We introduced them via email.

Upoznali smo ih međusobno putem emaila.

And, as you may imagine, we had many concerns.

I kao što možete zamisliti, imali smo mnogo briga.

Maybe no one would show up in real life.

Možda se u stvarnosti nitko ne pojavi.

Maybe all the discussions in real life would be awful.

Možda sve rasprave u stvarnosti budu grozne.

Or maybe we had an axe murderer in our database.

Ili se možda pojavi ubojica sjekirom u našoj bazi podataka.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But then, on a Sunday in June 2017,

Ali zatim, jedne nedjelje u lipnju 2017. godine,

something beautiful happened.

dogodilo se nešto divno.

Thousands of Germans met in pairs and talked about politics peacefully.

Tisuće Nijemaca susrelo se u parovima i mirno su razgovarali o politici.

Like Anno.

Primjerice Anno.

He's a former policeman who's against -- or was against -- gay marriage,

On je bivši policajac koji se protivi -- ili se protivio -- istospolnom braku,

and Anne, she's an engineer who lives in a domestic partnership

i Anne, inženjerka koja živi u partnerstvu

with another woman.

sa ženom.

And they were talking for hours about all the topics

Satima su razgovarali o svim temama

where they had different opinions.

oko kojih se nisu slagali.

At one point, Anno told us later,

U jednom trenutku, rekao nam je Anno,

he realized that Anne was hurt by his statements about gay marriage,

shvatio je da su Anne povrijedile njegove izjave o istospolnom braku

and he started to question his own assumptions.

pa je počeo propitivati svoje pretpostavke.

And after talking for three hours,

Nakon što su pričali tri sata,

Anne invited Anno to her summer party,

Anne je pozvala Anna na svoju ljetnu zabavu,

and today, years later,

a danas, godinama kasnije,

they still meet from time to time and are friends.

još uvijek se povremeno sastaju i sada su prijatelji.

So our algorithm matched, for example, this court bailiff.

Naš algoritam je spojio, recimo, ovog sudskog pratitelja.

He's also a spokesperson of the right-wing populist party AfD in Germany,

On je također glasnogovornik desničarske populističke stranke AfD u Njemačkoj,

and this counselor for pregnant women.

a ovo je savjetnica za trudnice.

She used to be an active member of the Green Party.

Nekoć je bila aktivna članica Stranke zelenih.

We even matched this professor and his student.

Spojili smo čak i ovog profesora s njegovim studentom.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

It's an algorithm.

To vam je algoritam!

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

We also matched a father-in-law and his very own daughter-in-law,

Spojili smo i svekra sa svojom vlastitom snahom,

because, obviously, they live close by but have really different opinions.

jer, očito, stanuju vrlo blizu ali imaju vrlo različita stajališta.

So as a general rule,

Kao opće pravilo,

we did not observe, record, document the discussions,

mi nismo promatrali, nismo snimali, nismo dokumentirali rasprave,

because we didn't want people to perform in any way.

jer nismo željeli da se ljudi ni u kojem slučaju pretvaraju.

But I made an exception.

Ali napravio sam jednu iznimku.

I took part myself.

I sȃm sam sudjelovao.

And so I met in my trendy Berlin neighborhood called Prenzlauer Berg,

U svom pomodnom dijelu Berlina, imenom Prenzlauer Berg,

I met Mirko.

sastao sam se s Mirkom.

This is me talking to Mirko. Mirko didn't want to be in the picture.

Ovo sam ja dok pričam s Mirkom. On nije želio biti na slici.

He's a young plant operator,

On je mladi operator energetskog pogona

and he looked like all the hipsters in our area,

i izgledao je poput svih hipstera u našem kraju,

like with a beard and a beanie.

imao je bradu i vunenu kapu preko glave.

We were talking for hours, and I found him to be a wonderful person.

Pričali smo satima i otkrio sam da je on divna osoba.

And despite the fact that we had really different opinions

Usprkos činjenici da smo imali vrlo različita mišljenja

about most of the topics --

o većini tema --

maybe with the exception of women's rights,

možda s iznimkom prava žena,

where I couldn't comprehend his thoughts --

gdje nisam mogao pojmiti njegove misli --

it was really nice.

bilo je doista lijepo.

After our discussion, I Googled Mirko.

Nakon naše rasprave, potražio sam Mirka na Googleu.

And I found out that in his teenage years, he used to be a neo-Nazi.

Otkrio sam da je kao mladić bio neonacist.

So I called him and asked,

Nazvao sam ga i pitao,

"Hey, why didn't you tell me?"

"Hej, zašto mi nisi to rekao?"

And he said, "You know, I didn't tell you because I want to get over it.

Rekao je, "Znaš, nisam ti rekao zato što želim to ostaviti iza sebe.

I just don't want to talk about it anymore."

Jednostavno ne želim više pričati o tome."

I thought that people with a history like that could never change,

Mislio sam da ljudi s takvim pričama nisu sposobni promijeniti se

and I had to rethink my assumptions,

i morao sam ponovo razmisliti o svojim pretpostavkama,

as did many of the participants who sent us thousands of emails

kao i mnogi sudionici koji su nam slali tisuće emailova,

and also selfies.

kao i selfieja.

No violence was recorded whatsoever.

Nije zabilježeno nikakvo nasilje.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And we just don't know if some of the pairs got married.

I ni danas nam nije jasno jesu li se neki parovi vjenčali ili nisu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But, at least, we were really excited and wanted to do it again,

Ako ništa drugo, bili smo vrlo uzbuđeni i željeli smo to ponoviti,

especially in version 2.0,

pogotovo u verziji 2.0,

wanted to expand the diversity of the participants,

gdje smo željeli proširiti raznolikost sudionika,

because obviously in the first round, they were mainly our readers.

jer, očito, u prvom krugu sudjelovali su većinom naši čitatelji.

And so we embraced our competition

Tako smo prigrlili svoje konkurente

and asked other media outlets to join.

i pozvali ostale medijske agencije da sudjeluju.

We coordinated via Slack.

Koordinirali smo putem aplikacije Slack.

And this live collaboration among 11 major German media houses

Ova živahna suradnja među njemačkih 11 najvećih medijskih kuća

was definitely a first in Germany.

zasigurno je bila prva u Njemačkoj.

The numbers more than doubled: 28,000 people applied this time.

Brojke su se više nego udvostručile: ovog puta prijavilo se 28 tisuća ljudi.

And the German president --

A predsjednik Njemačke --

you see him here in the center of the picture --

vidite ga ovdje u sredini slike --

became our patron.

postao nam je pokroviteljem.

And so, thousands of Germans met again in the summer of 2018

I tako da se tisuće Nijemaca ponovo susrelo u ljeto 2018. godine

to talk to someone else with a different opinion.

kako bi pričali s nekim različitih stavova.

Some of the pairs we invited to Berlin to a special event.

Neke od parova pozvali smo u Berlin na poseban događaj.

And there, this picture was taken,

Ondje je snimljena ova slika,

until today my favorite symbol for "Germany Talks."

do danas moj omiljeni simbol projekta "Njemačka govori".

You see Henrik, a bus driver and boxing trainer,

Vidite Henrika, vozača autobusa i trenera boksa,

and Engelbert, the director of a children's help center.

i Engelberta, ravnatelja centra za pružanje pomoći djeci.

They answered all of the seven questions we asked differently.

Na svih sedam postavljenih pitanja odgovorili su suprotno.

They had never met before this day,

Prije tog dana nikada se nisu sreli,

and they had a really intensive discussion

imali su vrlo intenzivnu raspravu,

and seemed to get along anyway

ali činilo se da se unatoč tome

with each other.

jako dobro slažu.

So this time we also wanted to know

Ovog puta smo također htjeli znati

if the discussion would have any impact on the participants.

hoće li rasprava imati ikakvog utjecaja na sudionike.

So we asked researchers to survey the participants.

Zamolili smo istraživače da ispitaju sudionike.

And two-thirds of the participants said that they learned something

Dvije trećine sudionika izjavilo je da su nešto naučili

about their partner's attitudes.

o stavovima svojih partnera.

Sixty percent agreed that their viewpoints converged.

Šezdeset posto se složilo kako su se njihova stajališta promijenila.

The level of trust in society seemed also higher after the event,

Činilo se i da je razina povjerenja u društvo porasla nakon događaja,

according to the researchers.

rekli su istraživači.

Ninety percent said that they enjoyed their discussion.

Devedeset posto izjavilo je kako su uživali u raspravi.

Ten percent said they didn't enjoy their discussion,

Deset posto izjavilo je da nisu uživali u raspravi,

eight percent only because, simply, their partner didn't show up.

od čega osam posto jednostavno zbog toga što se njihov partner nije pojavio.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

After "Germany Talks," we got approached by many international media outlets,

Nakon projekta "Njemačka govori", obratile su nam se mnoge svjetske agencije,

and we decided this time to build a serious and secure platform.

i ovog puta odlučili smo izgraditi ozbiljnu i sigurnu platformu.

We called it "My Country Talks."

Nazvali smo je "Moja država govori".

And in this short period of time, "My Country Talks" has already been used

U ovom kratkom razdoblju, platforma je već bila iskorištena

for more than a dozen local and national events

za više od 12 lokalnih i nacionalnih događaja,

like "Het grote gelijk" in Belgium or "Suomi puhuu" in Finland

poput "Het grote gelijk" u Belgiji ili "Suomi puhuu" u Finskoj,

or "Britain Talks" in the UK.

ili "Britanija govori" u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.

And as I mentioned at the beginning, we also launched "Europe Talks,"

Kao što sam spomenuo na početku, također smo pokrenuli "Europa govori"

together with 15 international media partners,

zajedno s 15 međunarodnih medijskih partnera,

from the "Financial Times" in the UK to "Helsingin Sanomat" in Finland.

od "Financial Timesa" u UK-u do "Helsingin Sanomata" u Finskoj.

Thousands of Europeans met with a total stranger

Tisuće Europljana susrelo se s potpunim strancem

to argue about politics.

kako bi raspravljali o politici.

So far, we have been approached by more than 150 global media outlets,

Dosad nam se obratilo više od 150 svjetskih medijskih agencija,

and maybe someday there will be something like "The World Talks,"

i možda ćemo jednog dana imati nešto poput projekta "Svijet govori",

with hundreds of thousands of participants.

sa stotinama tisuća sudionika.

But what matters here are not the numbers,

Ali ovdje nisu toliko važne brojke,

obviously.

to je očito.

What matters here is ...

Ovdje je važno...

Whenever two people meet to talk in person for hours

Kad god se dvoje ljudi sastane kako bi satima pričali oči u oči,

without anyone else listening,

a da ih pritom nitko drugi ne sluša,

they change.

oni se promijene.

And so do our societies.

A tako se mijenjaju i naša društva.

They change little by little, discussion by discussion.

Mijenjaju se malo po malo, raspravu po raspravu.

What matters here is that we relearn

Ovdje je bitno da ponovo naučimo

how to have these face-to-face discussions,

kako imati ovakve osobne rasprave,

without anyone else listening,

kada nitko drugi ne sluša,

with a stranger.

sa strancem.

Not only with a stranger we are introduced to

Ne samo sa strancem kojeg smo upoznali

by a Tinder for politics,

putem Tindera za politiku,

but also with a stranger in a pub or in a gym or at a conference.

nego i sa strancem u kafiću ili u teretani ili na konferenciji.

So please meet someone

Molim vas da upoznate nekoga,

and have an argument

posvađajte se

and enjoy it very much.

i jako uživajte pri tome.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

Wow!

Oho!

(Applause)

(Pljesak)