George Whitesides: Toward a science of simplicity

譯者: Wenjer Leuschel 審譯者: Sunshine Wang

Most of the talks

各位這幾天

that you've heard in the last several fabulous days

所聽到的大多數精彩演說

have been from people who have the characteristic

都是具有專業特長

that they have thought about something,

學有專精的專家

they are experts, they know what's going on.

經過深思熟慮所發表的演說

All of you know about the topic

大家都知道

that I'm supposed to talk about.

我將發表的講題是什麼

That is, you know what simplicity is,

各位都知道什麼是「簡單」

you know what complexity is.

知道什麼是「複雜」

The trouble is, I don't.

問題是：我並不知道

And what I'm going to do is share with you

因此我將與各位

my ignorance on this subject.

分享我對講題的無知

I want you to read this,

請大家讀這段引述

because we're going to come back to it in a moment.

因為不久後我們還會回到這段話

The quote is from

這是鼎鼎大名的最高法院

the fabled Potter Stewart

大法官波特•司徒華談論

opinion on pornography.

色情所發表的一段話

And let me just read it,

那麼我現在念

the important details here:

其中的重要細節

"Shorthand description, ['hardcore pornography'];

「簡略的描述，重鹹濕的色情

and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly defining it.

我恐怕無法給它清楚的定義

But I know it when I see it."

但一看就知道」

I'm going to come back to that in a moment.

我還會回到這段話

So, what is simplicity?

那麼，什麼是「簡單」？

It's good to start with some examples.

我們先舉個例子

A coffee cup -- we don't think about coffee cups,

咖啡杯，我們不會想太多

but it's much more interesting than one might think --

但它可能比你認為的還有趣得多

a coffee cup is a device,

咖啡杯是一種器具，對

which has a container and a handle.

是一種容器，對；還有握柄，對

The handle enables you to hold it

如果容器裡裝滿熱水的話

when the container is filled with hot liquid.

握柄讓你能握住杯子，是吧

Why is that important?

那有什麼重要呢？

Well, it enables you to drink coffee.

嗯，它讓你能喝咖啡

But also, by the way, the coffee is hot,

而且咖啡是熱的

the liquid is sterile;

液體是煮沸消毒過的

you're not likely to get cholera that way.

這樣你就不會感染霍亂

So the coffee cup, or the cup with a handle,

那麼咖啡杯或是有握柄的杯子

is one of the tools used by society

是社會上用來維護

to maintain public health.

公共衛生的工具之一

Scissors are your clothes,

剪刀用來剪裁衣服

glasses enable you to see things

眼鏡讓你能看見東西

and keep you from being eaten by cheetahs

也讓你不被印度豹給吃了

or run down by automobiles,

或讓汽車給撞著了

and books are, after all, your education.

還有書，這是用來教育你的

But there's another class of simple things,

不過還有其它

which are also very important.

簡單的東西，同樣重要

Simple in function,

功能簡單

but not at all simple in how they're constructed.

構造卻不簡單

And the two here are just examples.

這裡有兩個例子

One is the cellphone, which we use every day.

一是我們天天使用的行動電話

And it rests on a complexity,

其構造極其複雜

which has some characteristics

所具有的特性和我的朋友

very different from those that my friend

貝諾特•曼德爾博特談到的

Benoit Mandelbrot discussed,

有很大不同

but are very interesting.

但是也很有趣

And the other, of course, is a birth control pill,

另一例當然是避孕藥了

which, in a very simple way,

它既簡單又根本地

fundamentally changed the structure of society

改變了社會結構

by changing the role of women in it

避孕藥為婦女所提供的

by providing to them

選擇懷孕與否的機會

the opportunity to make reproductive choices.

改變了婦女的角色

So, there are two ways of thinking about this word, I think.

我想有兩種方式來思考這個詞

And here I've corrupted

那麼我稍微修改一下

the Potter Stewart quotation

波特•司徒華的那段話

by saying that we can think about something --

從剪刀開始

which spans all the way from scissors

一直到行動電話

to the cell phone,

網際網路和避孕藥

Internet and birth control pills --

等等，都有一個

by saying that they're simple,

共通點：它們都很簡單

the functions are simple,

在功能上都是簡單的

and we recognize what that simplicity is

大家都看見它們的「簡單」

when we see it.

一看就知道

Or there may be another way of doing it,

也許另有別的方式來看事情

which is to think about the problem in terms of what --

也就是從道德哲學家的觀點

if you associate with moral philosophers --

來思考這個問題

is called the teapot problem.

那就是所謂的茶壺問題

The teapot problem I'll pose this way.

茶壺問題嘛，這麼說吧

Suppose you see a teapot,

假設你看到把茶壺

and the teapot is

茶壺裡

filled with hot water.

盛滿了熱水

And you then ask the question:

你提出問題啦：

Why is the water hot?

為什麼水是熱的？

And that's a simple question.

這個問題很簡單

It's like, what is simplicity?

就像問：「簡單」是什麼？

One answer would be:

有個答案是：

because the kinetic energy of the water molecules is high

因為水分子運動能量高

and they bounce against things rapidly --

撞擊的速度很快

that's a kind of physical science argument.

這是物理的論點

A second argument would be:

第二個論點是：

because it was sitting on a stove with the flame on --

因為它剛剛在爐子上燒

that's an historical argument.

這是歷史的論點

A third is that I wanted hot water

第三個是：我要用熱水

for tea --

泡茶

that's an intentional argument.

這是交代意圖的論點

And, since this is coming from a moral philosopher,

這是道德哲學家的回答

the fourth would be that it's part of God's plan for the universe.

第四個是：這是上帝對宇宙的安排的一部分

All of these are possibilities.

這些答案都有可能

The point is that you get into trouble

重點是，你會有麻煩

when you ask a single question

如果你只問一個問題

with a single box for an answer,

只要一個答案

in which that single question actually is many questions

但那個問題其實包含許多問題

with quite different meanings,

意義大不相同

but with the same words.

卻使用相同的字彙

Asking, "What is simplicity?" I think falls in that category.

問「簡單」什麼是，我想就是這類的問題

What is the state of science?

科學的現況是什麼？

And, interestingly, complexity

有趣的是其中

is very highly evolved.

所牽涉到的極其複雜

We have a lot of interesting information

關於複雜

about what complexity is.

我們有許多有趣的資訊

Simplicity, for reasons

不太清楚到底

that are a little bit obscure,

出於什麼原因

is almost not pursued,

幾乎無人探討簡單

at least in the academic world.

至少學界情況是如此

We academics -- I am an academic --

我們學界中人，我是學界的

we love complexity.

我們喜歡複雜

You can write papers about complexity,

論文談的盡是複雜

and the nice thing about complexity is

談論複雜，最棒的是

it's fundamentally intractable in many ways,

基本上在許多方面是屹立不搖的

so you're not responsible for outcomes. (Laughter)

因此你可以不必為結果負責

Simplicity -- all of you really would like

「簡單」呢，早上起來

your Waring Blender in the morning

大家都會用果汁機

to make whatever a Waring Blender does,

打些什麼吃的喝的

but not explode or play Beethoven.

你不會希望它爆炸或彈奏貝多芬

You're not interested in the limits of these things.

你對這類東西的侷限沒多大興趣

So what one is interested in

那麼大家有興趣的

has a lot to do with the rewards of the system.

其實跟回報很有關係

And there's a lot of rewards in thinking

思考「複雜」和「顯現」

about complexity and emergence,

能帶來許多的獎賞

not so much in thinking about simplicity.

思考「簡單」獎賞就沒那麼多了

One of the things I want to do

我想做的事情之一是

is to help you with a very important task --

幫助你應付一個重要的場面

which you may not know that you have very often --

這種情況不難理解

which is to understand

你可能常常不知道

how to sit next to a physicist at a dinner party

在餐宴上坐在一位物理學家旁邊

and have a conversation. (Laughter)

該跟他說些什麼

And the words that I would like you to focus on

那我告訴你要注意的兩個詞是：

are complexity and emergence,

「複雜」和「顯現」

because these will enable you to start the conversation

它們讓你能開始聊

and then daydream about other things.

還能繼續跟他一起作其它的白日夢

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

All right, what is complexity in this view of things,

好吧，「複雜」是什麼？

and what is emergence?

「顯現」又是什麼？

We have, actually, a pretty good working definition of complexity.

我們對於複雜其實有個很好的定義

It is a system, like traffic,

它是一種系統，像是交通系統

which has components.

有其組成的零件

The components interact with one another.

零件之間有互動

These are cars and drivers. They dissipate energy.

汽車和開車的人，他們消耗能量

It turns out that, whenever you have that system,

結果呢，只要有了這樣的系統

weird stuff happens,

奇怪的事情就會發生

and you in Los Angeles

各位住在洛杉磯

probably know this better than anyone.

可能比別人都清楚這一點

Here's another example,

這裡還有另一個例子

which I put up because

我提出來是因為

it's an example of really important current science.

這是當前科學上重要的例子

You can't possibly read that. It's not intended that you read it,

這不可能看得清楚，本來就不要大家讀的

but that's a tiny part

但這是你們的

of the chemical reactions going on

每一個微小細胞裡

in each of your cells at any given moment.

隨時都在進行的化學反應

And it's like the traffic that you see.

就像是大家看到的交通狀況

The amazing thing about the cell is that

關於細胞，令人訝異的是

it actually does maintain a fairly stable

它確實與其它的細胞

working relationship with other cells,

維持著相當穩定的運作關係

but we don't know why.

我們不知道為何如此

Anyone who tells you that we understand life,

那些聲稱懂得生命的人

walk away.

沒有解釋就走了

And let me reduce this to the simplest level.

那麼，我把這一切簡化到最簡單的層次

We've heard from Bill Gates recently.

我們最近聽了比爾•蓋茲演說

All of us, to some extent, study

我們大家多多少少都研究了

this thing called a Bill Gates.

這個叫「比爾•蓋茲」的東西

Terrific. You learn everything you can about that.

你盡量學習了關於他的一切

And then there's another kind of thing that you might study,

你可能另外還研究別的東西

and you study that hard.

你很用功研究

That's a Bono, this is a Bono.

這是波諾

But then, if you know everything you can know about those two things,

你盡所能了解有關這兩者的一切後

and you put them together,

把他們放在一起

what can you say about this combination?

你能得到的組合是什麼？

The answer is, not a lot.

答案是：不多

And that's complexity.

那就是複雜

Now, imagine building that up to a city, or to a society,

那麼，推而及之於一個城市或一個社會

and you've got, obviously, an interesting problem.

顯然的這是個有趣的問題

All right, so let me give you an example

好吧，讓我舉一個

of simplicity

一種特殊的

of a particular kind.

「簡單」的例子

And I want to introduce a word

然後我要介紹一個

that I think is very useful,

我認為很有用的詞

which is stacking.

那就是「堆疊」

And I'm going to use stacking for a kind of simplicity

我將「堆疊」出一種「簡單」

that has the characteristic

這種「簡單」具有

that it is so simple

可以說是既簡單

and so reliable

又可靠的特性

that I can build things with it.

可以用來建構別的東西

Or I'm going to use simple to mean

當我說「簡單」，意思是

reliable, predictable, repeatable.

可靠、可預測、可重複

And I'm going to use as an example the Internet,

拿網際網路來說

because it's a particularly good example

這是個很好的

of stacked simplicity.

「堆疊簡單」的特例

We call it a complex system, which it is,

我們稱網際網路為「複雜系統」，確實也是

but it's also something else.

但也有別的意思

The Internet starts with mathematics,

網際網路始於數學

it starts with binary.

始於二進位系統

And if you look at the list of things on the bottom,

各位如果看看底下的清單

we are familiar with the Arabic numbers

大家都熟悉阿拉伯數字

one to 10 and so on.

一到十等等的

In binary, one is 0001,

在二進位系統裡一是0001

seven is 0111.

七是0111

The question is: Why is binary

問題是：為什麼使用二進位

simpler than Arabic?

會比使用阿拉伯數字簡單？

And the answer is, simply,

答案很簡單：

that if I hold up three fingers, you can count that easily,

如果我伸出三根指頭，你能輕易的數

but if I hold up this,

但如果是這個

it's sort of hard to say that I just did seven.

要說我剛才比了個七可不容易

The virtue of binary is that it's the simplest possible way

二進位的好處是：它是表示數字

of representing numbers.

最簡單的辦法

Anything else is more complicated.

其它都更複雜

You can catch errors with it,

二進位很容易找到錯誤

it's unambiguous in its reading,

只有一種解讀法

there are lots of good things about binary.

二進位系統有許多好處

So it is very, very simple

只要懂得解讀法

once you learn how to read it.

它就非常非常簡單

Now, if you like to represent

那麼，如果要表示

this zero and one of binary,

二進位系統的零和一

you need a device.

需要使用一種裝置

And think of things in your life

那麼，想一想生活中

that are binary,

有什麼二進位的東西

one of them is light switches.

其中之一就是電燈開關

They can be on and off. That's binary.

開關非開即關－這就是二進位

Now wall switches, we all know, fail.

牆上的開關有時會壞掉

But our friends who are condensed matter physicists

但是五十年前

managed to come up, some 50 years ago,

我們那些積體物理學家朋友們發明了

with a very nice device, shown under that bell jar,

鐘形罐裡的那個很棒的裝置

which is a transistor.

也就是電晶體

A transistor is nothing more than a wall switch.

電晶體其實和牆上的開關

It turns things on and off,

沒有兩樣，非開即關

but it does so without moving parts

但不必移動零件

and it doesn't fail, basically, for a very long period of time.

而且很長時間不會壞掉

So the second layer of simplicity

那麼，「簡單」的第二個層次

was the transistor in the Internet.

是進入電晶體和網際網路時代

So, since the transistor is so simple,

由於電晶體構造非常簡單

you can put lots of them together.

可以把很多個

And you put lots of them together and you come with

放在一起做成

something called integrated circuits.

積體電路

And a current integrated circuit

現在的積體電路

might have in each one of these chips

每一個晶片上可能

something like a billion transistors,

有大約十億個電晶體

all of which have to work perfectly every time.

每個晶體都必須完美運作

So that's the next layer of simplicity,

這就是「簡單」的另一個層次

and, in fact, integrated circuits

事實上，積體電路

are really simple in the sense that they,

真的非常簡單，因為

in general, work really well.

運作一般都很暢順

With integrated circuits, you can build cellphones.

用積體電路可以做行動電話

You all are accustomed to having your cellphones work

大家都習慣行動電話可以打得通

the large majority of the time.

大部分的時候是打得通的

In Boston ... Boston is a little bit like Namibia

波士頓行動電話的涵蓋率

in its cell phone coverage, (Laughter)

和納米比亞差不多

so that we're not accustomed to that all the time,

所以通常沒有那麼幸運

but some of the time.

只是有時打得通

But, in fact, if you have cell phones,

但只要有行動電話

you can now go to this nice lady

現在就可以

who's somewhere like Namibia,

去拜訪像這位

and who is extremely happy with the fact

在納米比亞的女士

that although she does not have

她會很高興自己

an master's degree in

不必擁有MIT的

electrical engineering from MIT,

電機工程碩士學位

she's nonetheless able to hack her cell phone

照樣能玩行動電話

to get power in some funny way.

玩得很開心

And from that comes the Internet.

網際網路也是從這裡開始

And this is a map of bitflows across the continent.

這兒有一張跨洲位元流動圖

The two blobs that are light in the middle there

中間有兩個發亮的區塊

are the United States and Europe.

是美國和歐洲

And then back to simplicity again.

現在回到「簡單」這個話題

So here we have what I think is one of the great ideas,

我認為最偉大的想法之一

which is Google.

就是Google

Which, in this simple portal

這個簡單的入口網站

makes the claim

聲稱透過這個網站

that it makes accessible

能夠獲取

all of the world's information.

全世界的資訊

But the point is that

不過值得注意的是

that extraordinary simple idea

異常簡單的想法

rests on layers of simplicity

是建立在許多層次的「簡單」之上

each compounded into a complexity

複合而成的「複雜」

that is itself simple,

卻仍然是簡單的

in the sense that it is completely reliable.

因為它的功能完全可靠

All right, let me then finish off

好吧，讓我用

with four general statements,

四個表述、一個例子

an example and two aphorisms.

兩句箴言來

The characteristics, which I think

總結我認為簡單的東西

are useful to think about for simple things:

所具有的特性：

First, they are predictable.

首先，它們都是可預測的

Their behavior is predictable.

其行為是可預測的

Now, one of the nice characteristics

簡單的東西

of simple things

具有的特性之一

is you know what it's going to do, in general.

是你通常知道它會做什麼

So simplicity and predictability

那麼，簡單的東西具有

are characteristics of simple things.

「簡單」和「可預測」的特性

The second is, and this is a real world statement,

其次，這是現實面的表述

they're cheap.

它們很便宜

If you have things that are cheap enough,

東西如果夠便宜

people will find uses for them,

即使看起來非常原始

even if they seem very primitive.

人們就會為它們找到用途

So, for example, stones.

以石頭為例

You can build cathedrals out of stones,

石頭可用來建造大教堂

you just have to know what it does.

只要知道它的性質

You carve them in blocks and then you

把石頭切成石塊

pile them on top of one another,

再一塊一塊堆起來

and they support weight.

它們就能承受重量

So there has to be function, the function has to be predictable

那麼，只要可預測功能

and the cost has to be low.

而且成本低廉

What that means is

換句話說

that you have to have a high performance

要有高效益

or value for cost.

即價值和成本必須成比例

And then I would propose

我提出的

as this last component

最後一個部份是

that they serve, or have the potential to serve,

要提供服務或具有服務潛能

as building blocks.

像建築石塊一般

That is, you can stack them.

也就是可以堆疊起來

And stack can mean this way, or it can mean this way,

可以是直的，也可以是橫的

or it can mean in some arbitrary n-dimensional space.

也可以在 N 次元空間堆疊

But if you have something that has a function,

但某種東西具有功能

and it's really cheap,

而且真的便宜

people will find new ways of putting it together

自然會有人找到組合的方式

to make new things.

創造出新的

Cheap, functional, reliable things

既便宜、有功能又可靠的東西

unleash the creativity of people

解放人們的創造力

who then build stuff that you could not imagine.

就可以創造出意想不到的東西

There's no way of predicting the Internet

發明電晶體時，並沒有料到

based on the first transistor.

會有網際網路

It just is not possible.

當時想都想不到

So these are the components.

以上是「簡單」的組成要素

Now, the example

現在舉個例子

is something that I want to give you

我想告訴各位一點

from the work that we ourselves do.

我們的研究成果

We are very interested in

我們非常感興趣

delivering health care in the developing world,

在發展中國家提供醫療保健

and one of the things that we wish to do in this particular business

我們想做的事之一

is to find a way of doing medical diagnosis

就是找到醫學診斷的方法

at as close to zero cost

盡量讓

as we can manage.

成本近乎於零

So, how does one do that?

如何做到呢？

This is a world in which there's no electricity,

那些國家沒有電力

there's no money, there's no medical competence.

沒有經費，醫藥也不發達

And I don't want to spend your time in going through the details,

我不想浪費時間詳述細節

but in the lower right-hand corner,

在右下角

you see an example of the kind of thing that we have.

可以看一個例子

It's a little paper chip.

那是一張小小的紙晶片

It has a few things printed on it

上面印著一些東西

using the same technology

製作的科技

that you use for making comic books,

和印製漫畫書相同

which was the inspiration for this particular idea.

這個想法的靈感其實也來自漫畫書

And you put a drop, in this case, of urine at the bottom.

滴一滴尿液在晶片下方

It wicks its way up into these little branches.

尿液往上滲入那些小分枝

You know, no power required.

大家可看見無須耗用能量

It turns colors. In this particular case,

紙晶片就會變色－這個晶片

you're reading kidney function.

可以判讀腎臟功能

And, since the health care worker

大多數這些發展中國家的

of much of this part of the world

醫療保健工作人員

is an 18 year-old with an AK-47,

是拿著AK-47的18歲青年

who happens to be out of work and is willing

找不到其它差事

to go around and do this sort of thing,

才來做這份工作

he can take a picture of it with his cellphone,

他可用行動電話拍下照片

send the picture back to where there is a doctor,

將照片傳送到醫生那裡

and the doctor can look at it.

醫生就可以檢查照片

So what you've done is to take a technology,

這是一種

which is available everywhere,

到處都能運用的科技

make a device, which is extremely cheap,

製造一種極為便宜的裝置

and make it in such a fashion

而且把它做成

that it is very, very reliable.

非常可靠的東西

If we can pull this off,

要是能夠成功拓展

if we can build more function,

要是能有更多功能

it will be stackable.

就是可「堆疊」的科技

That is to say, if we can make the basic technology

換句話說，如果能使基本科技的

of one or two things work,

一兩項功能順利運作

it will be applicable to a very, very

那麼該科技將可應用到

large variety of human conditions,

許許多多不同的人類需求

and hence, extendable in both

因此能朝著

vertical and horizontal directions.

垂直和水平的方向不斷擴展

Part of my interest in this, I have to say,

我必須說我對此的興趣之一

is that I would like to -- how do I put this politely? --

是－請恕我冒昧直言－我想改變

change the way, or maybe eviscerate,

或也許是切除

the capital structure of the U.S. health care system,

美國醫療保健系統的主要結構

which I think is fundamentally broken.

我認為那個系統根本已經失靈了

So, let me close --

我的結論是

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

Let me close with my two aphorisms.

用兩句箴言來總結

One of them is from Mr. Einstein,

一句是愛因斯坦說的

and he says, "Everything should be made

他說「一切都要做到

as simple as possible, but not simpler."

最簡單，簡單到不能再簡單」

And I think that's a very good way of thinking about the problem.

我認為這個思考模式棒極了

If you take too much out

在簡單的東西上減一分

of something that's simple, you lose function.

便會失一分功能

You have to have low cost,

一方面要降低成本

but you also have to have a function.

另一方面顧及功能

So you can't make it too simple.

因此不能太過簡單

And the second is a design issue,

再來是有關設計的問題

and it's not directly relevant, but it's a nice statement.

雖然沒有直接的關係，但這句箴言不錯

This is by de Saint-Exupery.

聖埃克絮佩里

And he says, "You know you've achieved perfection in design,

他說：「設計達到完美時

not when you have nothing more to add,

並非你不能再加點什麼

but when you have nothing more to take away."

而是無法再做任何刪減。」

And that certainly is going in the right direction.

這個思考方向肯定是正確的

So, what I think one can begin to do

我想可以根據這種

with this kind of

「簡單」的原則

cut at the word simplicity,

開始做的

which doesn't cover Brancusi,

雖不能包括朗古奇的機械

it doesn't answer the question of

也無法回答為什麼

why Mondrian is better or worse

蒙德里安的畫作比梵谷的好或壞

or simpler or less simpler than Van Gogh,

或是簡單或不簡單些

and certainly doesn't address the question

當然也不能解答

of whether Mozart is simpler than Bach.

莫札特是否比巴哈簡單

But it does make a point --

但這是重點

which is one which, in a sense,

這個重點可以

differentiates the real world of people who make things,

在現實世界中辨別出誰真的在創造

and the world of people who think about things,

誰真的用心思考問題

which is, there is an intellectual merit

這個問題具有學術價值—

to asking: How do we make things

我們如何能

as simple as we can,

盡可能既簡單又便宜

as cheap as we can, as functional as we can

還兼顧功能，創造設備

and as freely interconnectable as we can?

並能自由地互相結合？

If we make that kind of simplicity in our technology

如果在科技上能達成那樣的「簡單」

and then give it to you guys,

提供給大眾使用

you can go off and do all kinds of fabulous things with it.

各位就能做各種美妙的事

Thank you very much.

感謝您的聆聽

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

Chris Anderson: Quick question.

克里斯•安德森：問個小問題

So can you picture

您是說您可以預見

that a science of simplicity

一種「簡單」的科學

might get to the point where

可能發展到這種程度：

you could look out at various systems --

只須檢驗不同的系統

say a financial system or a legal system, health system -- and say,

比方金融、法律或醫療系統，

"That has got to the point of danger

就可說診斷該系統

or dysfunctionality for the following reasons,

已經達到危險或功能失衡的地步

and this is how we might simplify it"?

診斷也可以簡化到能這的方式？

George Whitesides: Yes, I think you could. Because if you look

喬治•懷德賽芝：是的，應該做得到

at the components from which the system is made

只要看看系統構成的零件

and examine their fragility, or their stability,

並檢驗其脆弱度或穩定度

you can probably build a kind of risk assessment based on that basis.

就可以進行風險評估

CA: Have you started to do that?

克•安: 您已經開始這樣做了嗎？

I mean, with the health system, you got a sort of

在醫療系統中，您在成本上

radical solution on the cost side,

提出非常先進的解決方案

but in terms of the system itself?

但在系統本身怎麼辦呢？

GW: Well, no.

喬•: 嗯，不是那樣

How do I put that simply? No.

我怎麼簡單的回答你呢，真的不是

CA: That was a simple, powerful answer. GW: Yes.

克•安：好個簡單有力的回答　喬•懷：沒錯

CA: So, in terms of

克•安：那麼，關於

that diagnostic technology that you've got,

您發明的診斷科技

where is that, and when do you see that

已問世了嗎？何時能

maybe getting rolled out to scale.

看到它量產上市呢？

GW: That's coming out soon. I mean, the systems work,

喬•懷：很快就會上市了，我是說，這是可行的

and we have to find out how to manufacture them and do things of this kind,

我們研發出製造流程，敲定這些事情

but the basic technology works.

這一項科技是可以實際運用的

CA: You've got a company set up to ...

克•安：你成立了公司嗎？

GW: A foundation, a foundation. Not-for-profit.

喬•懷：基金會，是個基金會，非營利的

CA: All right. Well, thank you so much for your talk. Thank you. (Applause)

克•安：那好，非常感謝您的演說，謝謝