Isaac Mizrahi: Fashion, passion, and about a million other

譯者: Julia Yu 審譯者: Wang-Ju Tsai

I have, like, a thing about sleeping.

我不太喜歡睡覺，

I don't sleep that much,

我睡很少，

and I've come to this thing about, like, not sleeping much

但我已經可以把這件事，

as being a great virtue,

after years of kind of battling it

當成是一個優點，過去幾年，

as being a terrible detriment or something.

我一直把它當成是妖魔鬼怪之類的在奮戰。

And now I really like sort of sitting up.

現在我幾乎可以說沒在睡，

You know, but for years, I've been sitting up,

幾年下來，

and I think my creativity is greatly motivated

我反而覺得失眠激發了我的創造力。

by this kind of insomnia.

I lie awake. I think thoughts. I walk aimlessly sometimes.

我會清醒地躺著，思考事情，或漫無目的地走著，

I used to walk more at night.

有時候我比較常在晚上散步，

I walk during the day, and I follow people who I think look interesting.

白天我則會跟蹤看起來有趣的人。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And sometimes -- actually, once it was on "Page Six" in the "Post"

而且有時候···事實上這次上了紐約郵報的八卦版。

that I was cruising this guy, like, sort of, whatever,

我跟在一個男人後面，

but I was actually just following because he had these great shoes on --

因為他腳上的那雙鞋實在太棒了。

(Laughter)

所以我一直跟著他，

so I was following this guy.

And I took a picture of his shoes,

最後我幫他的鞋子照了相，

and we thanked each other and just went on our way.

我們謝過對方後就分道揚鑣了，

但是我常幹這種事。

But I do that all the time.

其實我覺得我有很多設計的點子，

As a matter of fact, I think a lot of my design ideas

come from mistakes and tricks of the eye.

都是來自錯誤和視覺上的錯覺。

Because I feel like, you know, there are so many images out there,

我覺得我們週遭有這麼多影像，

so many clothes out there.

這麼多衣服，

And the only ones that look interesting to me

會引起我的興趣的，

are the ones that look slightly mistaken, of course,

當然就是那些看起來有點怪怪的，

or very, very surprising.

或是讓人非常非常驚艷的。

And often, I'm driving in a taxi,

常常我坐計程車的時候，

and I see a hole in a shirt or something that looks very interesting

在路上看到有洞的T恤之類的，

如果那個洞看起來很有趣、很好看或者很實用，

or pretty or functional

in some way that I'd never seen happen before.

是我從來沒看過的，

And so I'd make the car stop, and I'd get out of the car and walk

我就會叫司機停車放我下來。

and see that, in fact, there wasn't a hole,

接著我就發現其實T恤沒有洞，是我眼睛的錯覺，

but it was a trick of my eye; it was a shadow, you know.

我看到的只是影子而已。

Or if there was a hole, I'd think like, "Oh, damn.

如果真的有洞，我就會想，可惡！

Actually, someone thought of that thought already.

已經有人想到要這麼設計了，

已經有人犯的錯我就不能再犯了。

Someone made that mistake already, so I can't do it anymore."

I don't know where inspiration comes from.

我不知道靈感是哪來的，

It does not come, for me, from research.

我的靈感不是研究來的，

I don't get necessarily inspired by research.

研究不見得會激發我。

As a matter of fact,

其實我一生中曾經做過

one of the most fun things I've ever done in my whole life

最最、最有趣的事之一，

was this Christmas season at the Guggenheim in New York.

就發生在去年聖誕假期的紐約古根漢博物館。

I read "Peter and the Wolf" with this beautiful band from Juilliard,

我看了《彼得與狼》，配樂的是茱麗亞學院的交響樂團，

and I did, like, you know, the narrator, and I read it.

我真的很喜歡那個旁白。

And I saw this really smart critic who I love,

那天我遇到一位很聰明而且我很喜歡的評論家，

this woman Joan Acocella, who's a friend of mine.

她是我的朋友艾可西拉(Joan Acocella)。

And she came backstage and said,

她從後台出來，跟我說，

"Oh, Isaac, did you know that -- talk to me about Stalinism

噢！艾薩克，你知道這部戲在講史達林主義

and talk to me about, you know, like, the '30s in Russia."

還有30年代的俄羅斯嗎？

And I thought, "How do I know about Stalinism?"

我說，我哪知道史達林主義，

I know about a wolf and a bird,

我只知道有一隻狼和一隻鳥，

and, you know, he ate the bird,

狼吃了鳥，然後最後我就聽到，

and then in the end, you know, you hear the bird squeaking or something.

我就聽到那隻鳥在尖叫之類的。

(Laughter)

所以我不太知道，我不太···

So I don't really know that, I don't really --

actually, I do my own kind of research, you know?

其實我有我自己的研究。

If I'm commissioned to do the costumes for an 18th-century opera

如果今天別人委託我做18世紀歌劇的戲服之類的，

or something like that,

I will do a lot of research, because it's interesting,

我會做很多功課，因為有趣，

not because it's what I'm supposed to do.

而不是因為這是我該做的事。

I'm very, very, very inspired by movies.

電影給了我很多很多的靈感。

The color of movies and the way light makes the colors.

電影的色彩還有光製造色彩的方式，

Light from behind the projection or light from the projection

不管是放映機後面的光，

或是投射出來的光，都讓色彩看起來相當不可思議。

makes the colors look so impossible.

Anyway, roll this little clip. I'll just show you.

不管怎樣，放一下這個短片，你們就會看到。

I sit up at night, and I watch movies,

我熬夜看電影，

and I watch women in movies a lot.

而且常常在看電影裡的女人。

And I think about, you know, their roles

我思考她們的角色，

and about how you have to, like, watch what your daughters look at.

還有家長怎麼去看他們女兒眼裡看到的角色。

Because I look at the way women are portrayed all the time,

我常常在看女人被塑造的方式，

whether they're kind of glorified in this way,

不管是像這樣讚頌她們，

or whether they're kind of, you know, ironically glorified,

或是有點諷刺地吹捧她們，

or whether they're sort of denigrated or ironically denigrated.

還是說有點詆毀，或是諷刺地貶低她們。

I go back to color all the time.

我常觀察顏色，

Color is something that motivates me a lot.

顏色激發我很多靈感。

我覺得天然的顔色倒是沒那麽特別，

It's rarely color that I find in nature,

although, you know, juxtaposed next to artificial color,

雖然和人造色擺在一起，

natural color is so beautiful.

天然色看起來還是那麼美麗。

So that's what I do. I study color a lot.

研究顏色就是我平常會做的事。

But for the most part, I think, like, how can I ever make anything

但大部分的時候我都在思考問題，像是「我怎麼可能做出

that is as beautiful as that image of Natalie Wood?

和娜妲麗華(Natalie Wood) 一樣美麗的東西？」

How can I ever make anything as beautiful as Greta Garbo?

「我怎麼可能做出和葛麗泰嘉寶(Greta Garbo) 一樣美麗的東西？」

I mean, that's just not possible. You know?

根本不可能嘛！

And so that's what makes me lie awake at night, I guess.

我猜就是這些問題讓我徹夜難眠。

I'm also like a big --

我想讓你們看···我也像是一個大···

我常去找占星師或塔羅牌占卜師，

I go to astrologers and tarot card readers often,

and that's another thing that motivates me a lot.

占卜也是我的靈感來源之一。

別人說，噢，那樣做···占星師叫我做什麼，

People say, "Do that" -- an astrologer tells me to do something,

so I do it.

我就做什麼。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

When I was about 21, an astrologer told me

大概21歲的時候，一個占星師告訴我，

that I was going to meet the man of my dreams,

我的白馬王子就要出現了，

and that his name was going to be Eric, right?

他的名字叫艾瑞克。

So, you know, for years I would go to bars

所以有好幾年我到酒吧去，

and, sort of, anyone I met whose name was Eric,

幾乎是一遇到任何叫艾瑞克的人，

I was humping immediately or something.

我馬上就跟他發生關係。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

There were times when I was so desperate,

有好幾次我實在按捺不住，

我就直接走進酒吧裡喊：「艾瑞克！」

I would just walk into a room and go, "Eric?"

誰轉頭我就直接撲向誰。

And anybody who would turn around, I would make a beeline for.

(笑聲)

(Laughter)

And I had this really interesting tarot reading a long time ago.

很久以前我做過一個很有趣的塔羅牌占卜，

The last card he pulled, which was representing my destiny,

占卜師抽出的最後一張牌，也就是代表我命運的那張牌，

was this guy in, like, a straw boater with a cane

畫著一個戴草帽、拿柺杖的男人，

and, you know, sort of spats and this, you know, a minstrel singer, right?

腳上有類似綁腿的東西，像是吟遊詩人的樣子。

I want to show you this clip,

我想讓各位看這段影片，我在夜總會表演的時候

because I do this kind of crazy thing where I do a cabaret act.

做了一件很瘋狂的事，

So actually, check this out.

看了就知道，

Very embarrassing.

超丟臉。

(Video) (Applause)

Thank you. We'll do anything you ask.

(影片)：謝謝，我們絕對應觀眾要求。

這個節目的名字有一個故事，

The name of the show is based on this story that I have to tell you,

about my mother.

是關於我媽的故事，

It's sort of an excerpt from a quote of hers.

節目的名字可以說是出自她說的話。

I was dating this guy, right?

有一次我和一個男生約會，

And this has to do with being happy, I swear.

只是因為和他在一起很開心，我發誓。

I was dating this guy, and it was going on for about a year,

我和這個男生交往了大概一年，

and we were getting serious,

我們對彼此愈來愈認真，

so we decided to invite them all to dinner, our parents.

所以我們決定邀雙方的家長一起吃晚餐，

介紹他們認識。

We introduced them to each other.

我媽對他媽很敏感，

My mother was, sort of, very sensitive to his mother,

who, it seemed, was a little bit skeptical

他媽好像對整個非主流的生活方式有點懷疑，

about the whole "alternative lifestyle" thing --

you know, homosexuality.

你知道，就是同性戀。

So my mother was a little offended, and turned to her and said,

所以我媽覺得有點不舒服，就跟他媽說：

「你在開玩笑嗎？他們兩個根本是天生一對，

"Are you kidding? They have the greatest life together.

They eat out, they see shows ..."

他們會出去吃飯，還會看秀。」

They eat out, they see shows.

他們會出去吃飯，還會看秀。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

That's the name of the show, "They eat out, they --"

這就是這個節目的名字。

That's on my tombstone when I die:

我死了以後墓碑上就要刻，

"He ate out, he saw shows." Right?

「他會出去吃飯，還會看秀」

(Laughter)

So in editing these clips,

在剪這些片子的時候，我沒那個臉

I didn't have the audacity to edit a clip of me singing at Joe's Pub.

去剪我在喬酒吧(Joe's Pub)唱歌的那段，

So you'll have to go check it out and come see me or something,

所以你們可能得親自去看我表演，

because it's mortifying.

因為實在太羞恥了，感覺就像···

And yet, it feels --

I don't know how to put this.

我不知道怎麼形容。

I feel as little comfort as possible is a good thing. You know?

我覺得愈不自在反而愈是件好事，

And at least, you know, in my case,

至少對我來說是這樣，

because if I just do one thing all the time,

因為如果我一次只做一件事，

I don't know, I get very, very bored. I bore very easily.

不知道，我會覺得超級無聊，我超容易無聊。

And you know, I don't say that I do everything well.

我不是在說我每件事都可以做得很好，

I just say that I do a lot of things, that's all.

我只是說我做很多事而已。

And I kind of try not to look back, you know?

而且我會試著不要回頭看，

Except, I guess that's what staying up every night is about --

除了···我想我不睡覺就是為了這檔事，

like, looking back and thinking, "What a fool you made of yourself."

像是回想和思考自己有多蠢之類的，

You know?

不過我覺得這無傷大雅，對吧？

But I guess that's OK. Right?

(Laughter)

Because if you do many things,

因為如果我們做很多事，

you get to feel lousy about everything, and not just one, you know?

我們就會覺得每件事都糟透了，

糟糕的不會只有一件事，

You don't master feeling lousy about one thing.

我們沒辦法只專心討厭一件事。

Yeah, exactly.

沒錯，就是這樣。

I will show you this next thing,

說到歌劇的服裝，

speaking of costumes for operas.

我要給各位看下一個東西。

I do work with different choreographers.

我和很多不同的編舞家合作，

I work with Twyla Tharp a lot

像是崔拉夏普(Twyla Tharp)，

and I work with Mark Morris a lot,

還有我的好朋友馬克莫里斯(Mark Morris)，

who is one of my best friends.

都是我常合作的對象。

And I designed three operas with him --

我和莫里斯一起設計了三部歌劇，

the most recent one, "King Arthur."

最近的一部是「亞瑟王」。

I've been very ingrained in the dance world

我和舞蹈界的淵源很深，

since I was a teenager.

可以追溯到我的青少年時期。

I went to a performing arts high school,

我高中唸的是表演藝術中學，

where I was an actor,

當時我是演員，

我有很多朋友則是芭蕾舞者。

and many of my friends were ballet dancers.

Again, I don't know where inspiration comes from.

我還是不知道靈感是從哪來的，

I don't know where it comes from.

不知道為什麼，

I started making puppets when I was a kid.

我還很小的時候就開始做玩偶，

Maybe that's where the whole inspiration thing started from: puppets.

說不定玩偶就是我所有靈感的泉源。

(Laughter)

再來是表演藝術中學，

And then performing arts high school.

There I was in high school, meeting dancers and acting.

高中的時候，

我認識了一些舞者，也演了一些戲。

And somehow, from there, I got interested in design.

不知道為什麼，我開始對設計有興趣，

I went to Parsons School of Design,

之後我進入帕森設計學院就讀，

and then I began my career as a designer.

接著開始我的設計師生涯。

I don't really think of myself as a designer,

其實我不覺得自己是設計師，

and I don't really think of myself necessarily as a fashion designer.

我覺得我不全然是一個時尚設計師，

And frankly, I don't really know what to call myself.

坦白說，我不太知道要怎麼稱呼我自己，

我覺得我是一個···我不知道我覺得我自己是什麼，

I think of myself as ...

I don't know what I think of myself as, so ...

就這樣。

That's just that.

(笑聲)

(Laughter)

But I must say, this whole thing about being slightly bored all the time,

但我得說，老是覺得有點無聊這件事，

I think that is a very important thing for a fashion designer.

我覺得對時尚設計師來說是很重要的，

You always have to be, like, slightly bored with everything.

設計師總是要覺得每件事都有點乏味，

And if you're not, you have to pretend to be slightly bored with everything.

就算你不覺得無聊，也要假裝無聊。

(笑聲)

(Laughter)

But I am really a little bored with everything.

但我是真的覺得每件事都有點無聊。

I always say to my partner, Marisa Gardini, who books everything --

我常跟我的夥伴賈蒂妮(Marissa Gardini) 說···

books everything and makes everything happen

賈蒂妮幫我安排所有事，她什麼事都辦得到，

and makes all the deals.

生意也都是她談的。

And I always tell her that I find myself with a lot of time

我每次都跟她說，我發現我

花很多時間在玩電腦橋牌，

on the computer bridge program.

時間多到就好像···。

Too much time on computer bridge, which is, you know, like, that's --

So, somehow, like, about 10 years ago,

大概十年前，不知道為什麼，

I thought that the most unboring place in the world

我覺得全世界最不無聊的地方，

would be, like, a TV studio, like for a day show,

可能是像是脫口秀

這種帶狀節目的電視攝影棚，

some kind of day talk show,

because it's all of these things that I love

因為所有我愛的東西，

kind of in one place.

都可以放在一起，

And if you ever get bored, you can look at another thing

一覺得無聊，就可以把目光移到另一件事、

做另一件事、聊另一件事，不是嗎？

and do another thing and talk about it, right?

And so I had this TV show.

所以我就做了一個電視節目，

And that was a very, very, very big part of my process.

這是我的生涯中很重要很重要的一部份。

Actually, could you roll the clip, please?

可以放一下影片嗎？謝謝。

This is one of my favorite clips of Rosie O'Donnell.

這段蘿西(Rosie O'Donnell) 的影片我很愛。

(Video) Isaac Mizrahi: We're back on the set. Hi, Ben!

(影片)：我們回到現場。

嗨。

Rosie O'Donnell: Hello, Ben.

哈囉，班。

IM: Look how cute she looks with just a slick back.

看她梳個油頭多可愛。

她奶奶說：「可口！」

Ben: As my grandmother says, "Delish!"

哇～可口，好，現在我要坐哪？

RO: Delish!

IM: Wow, delish.

All right. So where should I position myself?

I want to stay out of the way. I don't want to be -- OK, here we go.

我不想礙手礙腳，

我不想···好，開始吧。

RO: Do you get nervous, Ashley?

你會緊張嗎，艾希利？

Ashley: Doing what? RO: Cutting hair.

緊張什麼？

剪頭髮。

A: Never. I don't think there was ever a day when I cut hair I was nervous.

剪頭髮？從來沒在緊張的，

我剪頭髮沒有一次會緊張。

IM: You look so cute already. RO: You like it? All right.

你看起來已經很可愛了。

你喜歡嗎？

IM: Do you have a problem looking cute? RO: Of course I want to look cute.

你不想看起來可愛嗎？你想吧！

我當然希望看起來可愛。

IM: Just checking, because some people want to look, you know, aggressively ugly.

我只是確定一下，因為有些人希望看起來

嚇人得醜。

不，我不想。

我們都知道那些有錢人，

RO: No, not me, no.

IM: You read about people who have a lot of money and they have kids

他們的小孩最後生活都

and the kids always end up somehow, really messed up, you know?

一蹋糊塗，你懂嗎？

And there's got to be some way to do that, Rosie.

一定有解決的辦法，蘿西。

Just because you're fabulously rich and fabulously famous,

如果你錢多又有名，

does that mean you shouldn't have kids,

是不是就表示你不該生小孩，

because you know they're going to end up messed up?

因為你知道他們最後會活得一團糟？

不是，但我覺得這表示

RO: No, but it means your priority has to be their well-being first, I think.

你該把小孩的幸福擺第一，

But you have to make the decision for yourself.

但你也要為自己做打算。

My kids are seven, who the hell knows?

我的小孩現在七歲，誰知道

They're going to be like 14 and in rehab.

他們14歲的時候會不會在勒戒所，

And they're going to be playing this clip. "I'm such a good mother."

然後他們就會放這段影片：

「我真是個好媽媽。」

My God, this is the shortest I've ever had!

天哪，我從來沒剪過這麼短。

IM: It looks good, yeah?

看起來不錯吧？

A: Has your hair ever been this short? RO: No! But it's all right -- go crazy.

我才要問你，你的頭髮···

不！沒關係···瘋狂一點。

IM: I feel like it needs to be closer down here.

我覺得這邊要再短一點。

喔不，那邊要留下來。

A: It's just a stage. RO: We're just staging it.

我們要露出那段。

IM: Are you freaking out? It's so cute.

你在緊張嗎？你看起來很可愛。

沒有，我很愛，這是全新的我。

RO: No, I love it. It's the new me. IM: It's so fabulous!

噢，太正點了！

蘿西的頭毛，Wooo!

RO: Flock of Rosie. Wooo!

(Laughter)

IM: By the way, of all the most unboring things in the world, right?

所以，全世界最不無聊的事，

I mean, like, making someone who's already cute look terrible like that --

像是那樣把一個已經很可愛的人搞得很可怕，

(Laughter)

That is not boring. That is nothing if it's not boring.

就不無聊，沒有比這個還有趣的事了。

(Laughter)

Actually, I read this great quote the other day, which was,

有一天我讀到一句很棒的話，它說：

"Style makes you feel great,

「時尚給人好心情，因為它讓我們忘了死亡就在眼前。」

because it takes your mind off the fact that you're going to die."

Right?

不是嗎？然後我才意識到這句話就在我的網站上，

(Laughter)

And then I realized that was on my website,

and it said, you know, the quote was attributed to me.

上面寫說這句話是我講的。

And I thought, "Oh, I said something in an interview. I forgot I said that."

我就想，噢，我好像在一個訪談說了什麼。

我完全忘了我說過這句話，真的。

But it's really true.

I want to show you this last clip because it's going to be my last goodbye.

結束前我想給各位看最後一段影片。

I'll tell you that I cook a lot also.

我也很常做菜，我很愛做菜，

I love to cook.

And I often look at things as though they're food.

而且我常拿食物做比喻。

Like, I say, "Would you serve a rotten chicken?

譬如我會說，臭酸的雞你敢端上桌嗎？

Then how could you serve a beat-up old dress or something?

那怎麼可以給客人破爛的舊洋裝？

How could you show a beat-up old dress?"

你怎麼敢展示一塊破布？

我常把事情和廚房有關的東西沾上邊。

I always relate things to kitchen-ry.

(Laughter)

And so I think that's what it all boils down to.

我想這就是結論，

Everything boils down to that.

每件事都可以歸結到食物。

So check this out.

所以看一下，

This is what I've been doing,

我一直在做這個東西，因為我覺得超有趣。

because I think it's the most fun thing in the world.

像這個網站，

It's, like, this website with a lot of different things on it.

有很多東西在上面，

這是一個很多元的網站。

It's a polymathematical website.

We actually shoot segments, like TV show segments.

我們拍了一些類似電視節目的短片，

And it's kind of my favorite thing in the world.

這可以說是我最愛做的事，

And it just began, like, in the beginning of February. So who knows?

大概是今年二月初才開始的。

Again, I don't say it's good, I just think it's not boring, right?

再強調一次，我沒有說這個很好，我只是說這個不無聊，可以嗎？

And here's the last bit.

這是最後一段影片。

(Music)

IM: I make buttermilk pancakes or buttermilk waffles all the time.

(影片)：告訴你，我常用白脫牛奶做鬆餅。

Sara Moulton: Do you?

是嗎？

IM: Yeah, but I can never find buttermilk, ever.

真的，但我從來就找不到白脫牛奶。

噢。

You can't find it at Citarella, you can't find it.

在Citarella (美食超市）裡找不到白脫牛奶。

SM: You can't? IM: It's always low-fat.

你找不到嗎？

每次都只有低脂的白脫牛奶。

SM: But that's all it is. IM: It is? OK.

但就只有低脂的阿。

就只有低脂的嗎？

SM: You don't know? Let me tell you something interesting.

噢，你不知道？那我告訴你，

我告訴你一件很有趣的事。

IM: You know what? Stop laughing! It's not funny.

不要笑，一點也不好笑。

我只是不知道沒有全脂的白脫牛奶這種東西。

Just because I don't know there's no such thing as whole buttermilk.

Sorry. What?

不好意思，你說什麼？

SM: Here's the deal: in the old days, when they used to make butter --

是這樣的，讓我告訴你是怎麼回事。

從前人們還自己做奶油的時候，

You know how you make butter?

你知道怎麼做奶油嗎？

IM: Churn. SM: From cream.

用攪乳器？

攪鮮奶油的？

IM: Yeah, exactly.

沒錯。

SM: So you take heavy, high-fat milk, which is cream,

把高脂的鮮奶油

and you churn it until it separates into these curds and water.

拿去攪拌直到分離成凝乳和水，

The liquid is actually -- if you've ever overbeaten your whipped cream,

那個水就是打發的鮮奶油攪拌過度的時候

產生的液體，

it's actually buttermilk.

那個其實就是白脫牛奶。

That's what it was in the early days.

從前就是這樣做的。

And that's what people used for baking and all sorts of things.

可以用來烘培各種糕點，

Now the buttermilk that you get is actually low-fat or skim milk.

所以白脫牛奶其實是低脂或脫脂的牛奶。

IM: Excuse me, I didn't know. Alright?

我以前不知道好嗎？

SM: The reason he thought that

他會誤會是因為白脫牛奶很濃稠而且很好吃。

is because buttermilk is so wonderfully thick and delicious.

IM: Yeah, it is. Exactly.

沒錯，就是這樣。

SM: So who would think that it was low-fat?

沒想到它其實是低脂的。

IM: Well, that's it. Thank you very much.

就這樣，非常謝謝各位。

Happy TED. It's so wonderful here. I love it. I love it. I love it.

來TED很開心，實在太棒了，我很愛。

Thanks. Bye.

謝謝，再見