Vik Muniz: Art with wire, sugar, chocolate and string

翻译人员: yuanyuan liang 校对人员: Zhu Jie

I was asked to come here and speak about creation.

我受邀来这里讲讲艺术创造。

And I only have 15 minutes, and I see they're counting already.

我只有15分钟，而且我看到他们已经开始计时了。

And I can -- in 15 minutes, I think I can touch only a very rather janitorial branch of creation,

我可以——在15分钟内，我认为我只能触及有关创作的入门部分，

which I call "creativity."

我称之为创意。

Creativity is how we cope with creation.

创意就是我们如何理解创作。

While creation sometimes seems a bit un-graspable, or even pointless,

尽管创作有时看上去有点让人摸不着头脑，甚至毫无意义，

creativity is always meaningful.

但创意通常都是有意义的。

See, for instance, in this picture.

比如，在这幅图中，

You know, creation is what put that dog in that picture,

你知道，创作就是何以将这条狗放入画中，

and creativity is what makes us see a chicken on his hindquarters.

而创意就是何以我们会看到它后腿上的那只鸡。

When you think about -- you know, creativity has a lot to do with causality too.

如果你仔细想想，你知道，创意也经常涉及到因果关系。

You know, when I was a teenager, I was a creator.

你知道，当我十来岁时，我是创作艺术的。

I just did things.

我成天做这做那。

Then I became an adult and started knowing who I was,

而当我成年并开始了解我是谁，

and tried to maintain that persona -- I became creative.

并努力保持这一人格时——我变得有创意。

It wasn't until I actually did a book and a retrospective exhibition, that I could track exactly --

这些是直到我写了一本书并完成了一次巡回展后，我才确切地回想出来的——

looks like all the craziest things that I had done, all my drinking, all my parties --

就好像我以前干过的那些疯狂的事儿，那些酩酊大醉，那些狂欢派对——

they followed a straight line that brings me to the point

这些都连成一条直线把我带领到此时此刻

that actually I'm talking to you at this moment.

让我站在这里和大家说话。

Though it's actually true, you know,

真是这样的，你知道

the reason I'm talking to you right now is because I was born in Brazil.

我现在跟大家说话的原因就是我生于巴西。

If I was born in Monterey, probably would be in Brazil.

如果我出生于蒙特雷，那也应该是在巴西。

You know, I was born in Brazil and grew up in the '70s

要知道我生在巴西，成长于70年代，

under a climate of political distress,

政治压迫的年代，

and I was forced to learn to communicate in a very specific way --

我被迫学会以一种特殊的方法沟通——

in a sort of a semiotic black market.

类似一种符号黑话。

You couldn't really say what you wanted to say;

你不能说你真正想说的，

you had to invent ways of doing it.

你不得不想别的法子去说。

You didn't trust information very much.

你也不太相信那些消息。

That led me to another step of why I'm here today,

而导致我迈出走到今天的另一步就是

is because I really liked media of all kinds.

因为我真是非常喜欢所有类型的媒体。

I was a media junkie, and eventually got involved with advertising.

我是一个媒体痴，而最终投身到广告行业。

My first job in Brazil

我在巴西的第一份工作

was actually to develop a way to improve the readability of billboards,

就是想办法提高告示牌的可读性，

and based on speed, angle of approach and actually blocks of text.

这可读性就是基于速度、展示的角度以及实际的文字块。

It was very -- actually, it was a very good study,

这是一次非常好的学习，

and got me a job in an ad agency.

让我得到一份广告公司的工作。

And they also decided that I had to --

而且他们还决定必须

to give me a very ugly Plexiglas trophy for it.

要发给我一个很丑的塑料奖杯来奖励我的工作。

And another point -- why I'm here --

而另外一点造成我今天站在这里——

is that the day I went to pick up the Plexiglas trophy,

就是我去领那个塑料奖杯的那天，

I rented a tuxedo for the first time in my life,

我平生第一次租了一套晚礼服，

picked the thing -- didn't have any friends.

领了那个奖杯——身边没一个朋友。

On my way out, I had to break a fight apart.

当我出去时，我不得不杀出一条血路。

Somebody was hitting somebody else with brass knuckles.

有人戴着铜指节环在痛揍别的什么人。

They were in tuxedos, and fighting. It was very ugly.

他们都穿着晚礼服在打架。那场面太丑陋了。

And also -- advertising people do that all the time -- (Laughter) --

而且——广告界的人每天都是这样的——（观众笑声）——

and I -- well, what happened is when I went back, it was on the way back to my car,

——然后，当我走回我的车时，事情发生了，

the guy who got hit decided to grab a gun --

那个被打的家伙决定去拿把枪——

I don't know why he had a gun --

我也不知道他为什么会有把手枪——

and shoot the first person he decided to be his aggressor.

去射他认为在跟他挑衅的第一个人。

The first person was wearing a black tie, a tuxedo. It was me.

这第一个人打着黑色领带，穿着件黑色晚礼服。就是我。

Luckily, it wasn't fatal, as you can all see.

幸好，没把我打死，要不你们也看不到我了。

And, even more luckily, the guy said that he was sorry

而更幸运地是，这家伙还说他很抱歉，

and I bribed him for compensation money, otherwise I press charges.

于是我管他要了笔赔偿金，否则我就要起诉他。

And that's how -- with this money I paid for a ticket to come to the United States in 1983,

而就是这样，在1983年，我用这笔钱买了张机票来到美国，

and that's very -- the basic reason I'm talking to you here today:

而这就是我今天能在这里跟大家说话的根本原因。

because I got shot. (Laughter) (Applause)

因为我挨了一枪（笑声，掌声）

Well, when I started working with my own work, I decided that I shouldn't do images.

当我开始创作自己的作品时，我决定不碰图像。

You know, I became -- I took this very iconoclastic approach.

要知道，我采取的是非常反传统的进路。

Because when I decided to go into advertising, I wanted to do --

因为当我决定从事广告行业时，我想做的是——

I wanted to airbrush naked people on ice, for whiskey commercials,

在冰上喷绘裸体的人，这是为威士忌做广告，

that's what I really wanted to do. (Laughter)

我真正想干的是这个。

But I -- they didn't let me do it, so I just -- you know,

但是他们不让我这么干，所以我只好——

they would only let me do other things.

他们只让我干些别的。

But I wasn't into selling whiskey; I was into selling ice.

但我不太喜欢推销威士忌，我喜欢卖冰块。

The first works were actually objects.

最初的作品都是些实际的物体。

It was kind of a mixture of found object, product design and advertising.

有点像是拾得艺术品，产品设计和广告的混合。

And I called them relics.

我称之为“崩溃”。

They were displayed first at Stux Gallery in 1983.

他们最早于1983年在司塔克斯美术馆（纽约）展出。

This is the clown skull.

这个是小丑骨架。

Is a remnant of a race of -- a very evolved race of entertainers.

这是一种进化程度很高的艺人物种的遗骸。

They lived in Brazil, long time ago. (Laughter)

很久以前，他们生活在巴西。（笑声）

This is the Ashanti joystick.

这是阿善提（非洲西部）游戏杆。

Unfortunately, it has become obsolete because it was designed for Atari platform.

不幸的是，它已经没用了，因为它是为Atari游戏平台设计的。（1976年Atari公司在美国推出史上第一部正真意义上的家用游戏主机系统）

A Playstation II is in the works, maybe for the next TED I'll bring it.

作品里还用到了一个PS2，也许下次TED请我我再带来。

The rocking podium. (Laughter)

摇摇领奖台。

This is the pre-Columbian coffeemaker. (Laughter)

这个是哥伦布发现美洲之前的咖啡机。

Actually, the idea came out of an argument that I had at Starbucks,

其实这个灵感来自有次我在星巴克里和他们争执，

that I insisted that I wasn't having Colombian coffee;

我坚持认为我喝的不是哥伦比亚咖啡。

the coffee was actually pre-Columbian.

那咖啡是哥伦布发现美洲前的（指咖啡豆太陈了）。

The Bonsai table.

盆景桌子。

The entire Encyclopedia Britannica bound in a single volume, for travel purposes.

大英百科全书一卷本，方便旅行携带。

And the half tombstone, for people who are not dead yet.

以及半个墓碑，为那些还没死的人准备的。

I wanted to take that into the realm of images,

我想把这些带入图片领域，

and I decided to make things that had the same identity conflicts.

因此我决定要创造带有这类特性冲突的东西。

So I decided to do work with clouds.

所以我决定要用云彩创作。

Because clouds can mean anything you want.

因为云彩可以任凭你去想像。

But now I wanted to work in a very low-tech way,

但是现在我想用技术含量非常低的方式创作，

so something that would mean at the same time

因此有些东西可能同时意味着

a lump of cotton, a cloud and Durer's praying hands --

一大团棉花，一片云彩，以及丢勒的《祈祷之手》（丢勒是文艺复兴时期德国艺术大师）

although this looks a lot more like Mickey Mouse's praying hands.

虽然这看上去更像米老鼠的祈祷之手。

But I was still, you know -- this is a kitty cloud.

但我还是在努力，——这个是猫咪云。

They're called "Equivalents," after Alfred Stieglitz's work.

根据Alfred Stieglitz（20世界纪初叶美国摄影家）的作品，这叫做等价物。

"The Snail."

蜗牛。

But I was still working with sculpture,

我还尝试雕塑创作，

and I was really trying to go flatter and flatter.

而且我真的是越来越趋于平面化。

"The Teapot."

茶壶。

I had a chance to go to Florence, in -- I think it was '94,

我有次去了趟佛罗伦萨，应该是1994年，

and I saw Ghiberti's "Door of Paradise."

我看到了Ghiberti（意大利文艺复兴早期青铜雕刻家）的“天堂之门”。

And he did something that was very tricky.

他的手法非常有意思。

He put together two different media from different periods of time.

他把两个不同时代的两种不同媒介放在一起。

First, he got an age-old way of making it, which was relief,

首先，他使用一种古老的方式，浮雕，

and he worked this with three-point perspective, which was brand-new technology at the time.

然后他采用三点透视法进行浮雕，在当时这是全新的技术。

And it's totally overkill.

结果简直没治了！

And your eye doesn't know which level to read.

你的眼睛不知道该阅读哪一层次。

And you become trapped into this kind of representation.

最后你就被困在这种表现手法中。

So I decided to make these very simple renderings,

因为我就想做这类的简单翻版，

that at first they are taken as a line drawing --

开始时是单线条绘画的方式。

you know, something that's very -- and then I did it with wire.

你知道，就是这类的——然后我开始用电线。

The idea was to -- because everybody overlooks white -- like pencil drawings, you know?

理由是——因为大家都对白色视而不见——就像铅笔画。

And they would look at it -- "Ah, it's a pencil drawing."

这样当他们看见时会说——啊，这是幅铅笔画。

Then you have this double take and see that it's actually something that existed in time.

当你弄着弄着突然就发觉这个的确是像某个东西啊。

It had a physicality,

这样它就具有了一个实体，

and you start going deeper and deeper into sort of narrative

然后你就开始继续深入到某种诠释中，

that goes this way, towards the image. So this is "Monkey with Leica."

继续下去就成为一幅图画。比如这个“拿着莱卡相机的猴子”。

"Relaxation."

“悠闲”

"Fiat Lux."

“FIAT灯”（Cate Hogdahl和 Nelson Ruiz-Acal 设计）

And the same way the history of representation

正如艺术表现的历史

evolved from line drawings to shaded drawings.

是从画线条发展到画阴影。

And I wanted to deal with other subjects.

我还想尝试其他主题。

I started taking that into the realm of landscape,

我开始把这种方法应用到风景画中，

which is something that's almost a picture of nothing.

结果简直就是什么也不是。

I made these pictures called "Pictures of Thread,"

我把这些画叫做“线画”，

and I named them after the amount of yards that I used to represent each picture.

这些画的名字就是我用来完成每幅画的线的长度。

These always end up being a photograph at the end,

最终完成的总是好像一张照片，

or more like an etching in this case.

这张更像是版画。

So this is a lighthouse.

这是一座灯塔。

This is "6,500 Yards," after Corot. "9,000 Yards," after Gerhard Richter.

这是“6500码”，源自Corot（19世纪法国风景画家），“9000码”，源自Gerhard Richter（当代德国画家）

And I don't know how many yards, after John Constable.

这个我不知道用了多少码线，源自John Constable（19世纪英国风景画家）。

Departing from the lines, I decided to tackle the idea of points,

玩够了线头以后我决定尝试使用点点，

like which is more similar to the type of representation that we find in photographs themselves.

有点类似摄影艺术中的表现手法。

I had met a group of children in the Caribbean island of Saint Kitts,

我在加勒比海的圣基斯岛（Saint Kitts）上遇到一群孩子，

and I did work and play with them.

我和他们边工作边玩。

I got some photographs from them.

拍了一些他们的相片。

Upon my arrival in New York, I decided --

当我回到纽约，我决定

they were children of sugar plantation workers.

因为他们是糖料种植工人的孩子。

And by manipulating sugar over a black paper, I made portraits of them.

所以我在一张黑纸上堆放砂糖，制作了他们的肖像。

These are -- (Applause) --

这些（观众掌声）

Thank you. This is "Valentina, the Fastest."

谢谢。这是“飞毛腿Valentina”。

It was just the name of the child,

这就是这孩子的名字，

with the little thing you get to know of somebody that you meet very briefly.

还有跟他们短暂相聚时所了解到的一些小细节。

"Valicia."

“Valicia”。

"Jacynthe."

“Jacynthe”。

But another layer of representation was still introduced.

还有一层表现手法要介绍给大家。

Because I was doing this while I was making these pictures,

因为我做这些图片时我经常舔手指，

I realized that I could add still another thing

我发现我还可以加入点别的东西

I was trying to make a subject --

我想做一类主题——

something that would interfere with the themes,

就是不同题目之间可以相互干扰，

so chocolate is very good, because it has --

所以巧克力就很不错，因为

it brings to mind ideas that go from scatology to romance.

它既能带来从粪便到浪漫的各种联想。

And so I decided to make these pictures,

所以我决定做这样的画，

and they were very large, so you had to walk away from it to be able to see them.

它们很大，因此你必须离远一些才能看明白。

So they're called "Pictures of Chocolate."

它们叫做巧克力画。

Freud probably could explain chocolate better than I. He was the first subject.

弗洛伊德对巧克力的解释可能比我更好。他成为第一个主题。

And Jackson Pollock also.

还有Jackson Pollock 。（20世纪美国抽象表现主义画家）

Pictures of crowds are particularly interesting,

有关人群的图画非常有趣，

because, you know, you go to that --

因为，你知道，你要

you try to figure out the threshold with something you can define very easily,

你试着把它和你最容易辨认的东西联系起来，

like a face, goes into becoming just a texture.

比如人脸，这样就呈现出人脸的肌理。

"Paparazzi."

“狗仔队”。

I used the dust at the Whitney Museum to render some pieces of their collection.

我在惠特尼博物馆用尘土来表现他们的一些藏品。

And I picked minimalist pieces because they're about specificity.

我选的都是极简主义的作品，因为它们都强调特异性。

And you render this with the most non-specific material,

而你使用最不特异的材料来重现它们

which is dust itself.

也就是尘土。

Like, you know, you have the skin particles of every single museum visitor.

比如，你知道，你有每一个来参观的访客的皮屑，

They do a DNA scan of this, they will come up with a great mailing list.

他们做一个DNA扫描，就能得到一个很长的地址清单。

This is Richard Serra.

这是Richard Serra（美国极简主义艺术家）

I bought a computer, and [they] told me it had millions of colors in it.

我买了一台计算机，据说它里头有上百万色彩。

You know an artist's first response to this is, who counted it? You know?

你知道一个艺术家的第一反应就是，有人数过吗？

And I realized that I never worked with color,

然后我发现我以前从来没使用过色彩，

because I had a hard time controlling the idea of single colors.

因为我很难搞定单一色彩这个概念。

But once they're applied to numeric structure,

而基本上是采用符号结构，

then you can feel more comfortable.

然后才会觉得比较舒服。

So the first time I worked with colors was by making these mosaics of Pantone swatches.

所以我第一次用色彩创造就是用彩通（Pantone，美国彩色系统供应商，全球色彩标准权威）的色卡制作的马赛克图片。

They end up being very large pictures,

结果做出来的图都非常巨大，

and I photographed with a very large camera --

我用一部非常大的照相机才能拍全——

an 8x10 camera.

一部8X10的照相机。

So you can see the surface of every single swatch --

这样你才能看清每一张色卡的表面——

like in this picture of Chuck Close.

像这幅“Chuck Close”。（美国照相写实主义代表人）

And you have to walk very far to be able to see it.

你必须走到非常远的地方才能看明白。

Also, the reference to Gerhard Richter's use of color charts --

还有用颜色方块重现Gerhard Richter 的作品——

and the idea also entering another realm of representation that's very common to us today,

而这也涉及到今天我们很常见的另一种表现艺术的领域，

which is the bit map.

就是点阵图。

I ended up narrowing the subject to Monet's "Haystacks."

我最后瞄准的主题是莫奈的干草垛。

This is something I used to do as a joke --

这是我曾经开的一个玩笑——

you know, make -- the same like -- Robert Smithson's "Spiral Jetty" --

做一个Robert Smithson（美国艺术家）的“螺旋堤”——

and then leaving traces, as if it was done on a tabletop.

然后留下些痕迹，搞得好像这是在一张桌子上。

I tried to prove that he didn't do that thing in the Salt Lake.

我试图证明他其实不是在（犹他州）大盐湖上做的。

But then, just doing the models, I was trying to explore the relationship

但是，当我在做这些模型时，我试图探索

between the model and the original.

模型和原作品之间的关系。

And I felt that I would have to actually go there and make some earthworks myself.

然后我觉得我必须真的跑去亲自作一些实地的工作。

I opt for very simple line drawings -- kind of stupid looking.

我选择非常简单的单线条画——看上去有点愚蠢。

And at the same time, I was doing these very large constructions,

而同时我画的非常大，

being 150 meters away.

来回足有150米。

Now I would do very small ones, which would be like --

然后我要做一些非常小的，像这样——

but under the same light, and I would show them together,

但是在同样的灯光下，我要把它们放在一起展出，

so the viewer would have to really figure it out what one he was looking.

因此观看者不得不好好琢磨一下他看的是哪一个。

I wasn't interested in the very large things, or in the small things.

我的兴趣并不是在巨大或细小的事物上。

I was more interested in the things in between,

我更感兴趣的是介乎二者之间，

you know, because you can leave an enormous range for ambiguity there.

你知道，因为你可以在这中间留下很大的模糊性。

This is like you see -- the size of a person over there.

就像这个——这个大概是一个真人的大小。

This is a pipe.

这是个烟斗。

A hanger.

衣架。

And this is another thing that I did -- you know working

这是我做的另一个作品——正在做的，

-- everybody loves to watch somebody draw,

人人都爱看别人画画，

but not many people have a chance to watch somebody draw in --

但是不是很多人有机会看见有人能吸引——

a lot of people at the same time, to evidence a single drawing.

很多人在同一时间见证一副图画的创作。

And I love this work,

我很喜欢这个活儿，

because I did these cartoonish clouds over Manhattan for a period of two months.

因为我在曼哈顿上空连续两个月画这些卡通云彩。

And it was quite wonderful, because I had an interest -- an early interest -- in theater,

这简直妙极了，因为我以前曾经对舞台很感兴趣，

that's justified on this thing.

正好趁此机会表现出来。

In theater, you have the character and the actor in the same place,

在舞台上，角色和演员处在同一个位置上，

trying to negotiate each other in front of an audience.

试图在观众面前相互迁就。

And in this, you'd have like a --

而在这里，你看到的是——

something that looks like a cloud, and it is a cloud at the same time.

某个好像云彩的东西，而它本身又的确是云。

So they're like perfect actors.

因此他们就像完美的演员。

My interest in acting, especially bad acting, goes a long way.

我对表演的兴趣，尤其是糟糕的表演，延续了很长时间。

Actually, I once paid like 60 dollars

事实上，我有次花了60美元，

to see a very great actor to do a version of "King Lear,"

去看一位很了不起的演员演出的“李尔王”，

and I felt really robbed, because by the time the actor started being King Lear,

结果我觉得自己被抢了，因为当那个演员开始表演李尔王时，

he stopped being the great actor that I had paid money to see.

他就不再是那个我花钱想看到的伟大的演员了。

On the other hand, you know, I paid like three dollars, I think --

而另外一方面，我花了3美元，我记得是3美元——

and I went to a warehouse in Queens

去了皇后区的一个仓库，

to see a version of "Othello" by an amateur group.

去看一帮业余演员演出的奥赛罗。

And it was quite fascinating, because you know the guy --

结果非常有意思，因为要知道那个家伙——

his name was Joey Grimaldi --

他叫Joey Grimaldi ——

he impersonated the Moorish general

他扮演那位摩尔族将军

-- you know, for the first three minutes he was really that general,

——结果在最开始的3分钟里，他真的就是那位将军，

and then he went back into plumber, he worked as a plumber, so --

然后他又变回水管工，他的工作就是水管工，所以——

plumber, general, plumber, general --

水管工，将军，水管工，将军——

so for three dollars, I saw two tragedies for the price of one.

所以花3块钱我用一个悲剧的价钱看了两个悲剧。

See, I think it's not really about impression,

我认为并非是印象

making people fall for a really perfect illusion,

使得人们进入一个完美的错觉，

as much as it is to make -- I usually work at the lowest threshold of visual illusion.

正如这里所做的——我通常都用最粗浅的视觉错觉手法。

Because it's not about fooling somebody,

因为这并不是要欺骗别人，

it's actually giving somebody a measure of their own belief:

而是要给出他们自己所能相信的：

how much you want to be fooled.

你愿意在多大程度上被欺骗。

That's why we pay to go to magic shows and things like that.

这就是为什么我们花钱去看魔术之类的表演。

Well, I think that's it.

好了，我想也差不多了。

My time is nearly up.

我的时间到了。

Thank you very much.

非常感谢。