Vik Muniz: Art with wire, sugar, chocolate and string

譯者: I-Hsiang Lin 審譯者: Bolong Wu

I was asked to come here and speak about creation.

我被邀請來談論創作。

And I only have 15 minutes, and I see they're counting already.

我只有15分鐘，而且我看他們已經在倒數了。

And I can -- in 15 minutes, I think I can touch only a very rather janitorial branch of creation,

在15分鐘內，我想我只能觸及創作的入門面，

which I call "creativity."

我稱之為創意。

Creativity is how we cope with creation.

創意是我們處理創作的方式。

While creation sometimes seems a bit un-graspable, or even pointless,

有時創作看起來似乎無法掌握，甚至是毫無意義，

creativity is always meaningful.

但創意永遠都有意義的。

See, for instance, in this picture.

舉例來說，這張圖片。

You know, creation is what put that dog in that picture,

你知道，創作是把那隻狗放進圖片內，

and creativity is what makes us see a chicken on his hindquarters.

而創意則讓我們看到在牠後腿上的雞。

When you think about -- you know, creativity has a lot to do with causality too.

當你想想--你知道，創意也涉及到許多因果關係。

You know, when I was a teenager, I was a creator.

你知道，當我是青少年時，我是個創作家。

I just did things.

我做了很多事。

Then I became an adult and started knowing who I was,

當我長大且開始了解自己，

and tried to maintain that persona -- I became creative.

也試著去維持自我特色--我變得有創意。

It wasn't until I actually did a book and a retrospective exhibition, that I could track exactly --

在我寫了書和辦了回顧展後，我才確切的回想出來的--

looks like all the craziest things that I had done, all my drinking, all my parties --

好像我曾做過的所有瘋狂事情，那些伶仃大醉，那些派對--

they followed a straight line that brings me to the point

全都依循著一條直線行進且引領我到目前的位置

that actually I'm talking to you at this moment.

讓我在此時此刻跟你們講話。

Though it's actually true, you know,

真是如此的，你知道，

the reason I'm talking to you right now is because I was born in Brazil.

我能在這裡和大家說話的原因是因為我出生於巴西。

If I was born in Monterey, probably would be in Brazil.

如果我當初生於蒙特里的話，或許現在人反而會在巴西。

You know, I was born in Brazil and grew up in the '70s

我在巴西出生并成長於70年代，

under a climate of political distress,

當時政治環境低迷，

and I was forced to learn to communicate in a very specific way --

而且我被迫學習用種非常特別的方式溝通--

in a sort of a semiotic black market.

像是種符號黑話

You couldn't really say what you wanted to say;

你不能說出你真正想說的，

you had to invent ways of doing it.

你不得不想方設法用別的方法來表達。

You didn't trust information very much.

你不太相信訊息。

That led me to another step of why I'm here today,

我今天在這的另一個原因，

is because I really liked media of all kinds.

是因為我喜歡各式各樣的媒體。

I was a media junkie, and eventually got involved with advertising.

我是個媒體癡，最後也從事廣告行業。

My first job in Brazil

我在巴西的第一份工作

was actually to develop a way to improve the readability of billboards,

其實是根據車輛行進的速度、角度和實際的文字方塊，

and based on speed, angle of approach and actually blocks of text.

來改善廣告看板的易讀性。

It was very -- actually, it was a very good study,

這真的是一次非常好的學習機會，

and got me a job in an ad agency.

也讓我得到了一份在廣告公司的工作。

And they also decided that I had to --

而他們也決定了--

to give me a very ugly Plexiglas trophy for it.

要給我一個非常醜的塑膠玻璃獎盃來獎勵成果。

And another point -- why I'm here --

至於--這為何和我現在人在這裡相關--

is that the day I went to pick up the Plexiglas trophy,

則是當我去拿那個獎盃那天，

I rented a tuxedo for the first time in my life,

我生平第一次租了一套晚禮服，

picked the thing -- didn't have any friends.

領了獎--沒有任何朋友到場。

On my way out, I had to break a fight apart.

在我離開的時候，我勸了一場架。

Somebody was hitting somebody else with brass knuckles.

有人用銅製手指虎攻擊另外一個人。

They were in tuxedos, and fighting. It was very ugly.

雙方都穿著禮服打架，畫面非常的醜陋。

And also -- advertising people do that all the time -- (Laughter) --

而且--廣告人都常這樣--

and I -- well, what happened is when I went back, it was on the way back to my car,

而我 -- 當我要走回我的車時，

the guy who got hit decided to grab a gun --

被打的那位老兄決定拿了把槍--

I don't know why he had a gun --

我不知道為何他會有槍 --

and shoot the first person he decided to be his aggressor.

他要去射他覺得第一位挑釁他的人。

The first person was wearing a black tie, a tuxedo. It was me.

那個人打著一條黑領帶，穿著晚禮服。那個人就是我。

Luckily, it wasn't fatal, as you can all see.

幸運的是，如你們所看到的，這並不致命。

And, even more luckily, the guy said that he was sorry

更幸運的是，那個人感到很抱歉，

and I bribed him for compensation money, otherwise I press charges.

而我向他索得一筆賠償金，否則我要提出上訴。

And that's how -- with this money I paid for a ticket to come to the United States in 1983,

而這就是所有的來龍去脈--用這筆錢我在1983年買了機票來到美國。

and that's very -- the basic reason I'm talking to you here today:

而這也是--今天我能在這講話的真正原因。

because I got shot. (Laughter) (Applause)

因為我中槍了。

Well, when I started working with my own work, I decided that I shouldn't do images.

當我開始做自己的工作的時候，我決定不做圖像。

You know, I became -- I took this very iconoclastic approach.

你知道，我已變得--我不遵循傳統方法。

Because when I decided to go into advertising, I wanted to do --

因為當初我決定要走廣告業時，我想做的是--

I wanted to airbrush naked people on ice, for whiskey commercials,

我想用噴槍繪製在冰上裸體的人們，作威士忌宣傳，

that's what I really wanted to do. (Laughter)

那才是我真的想要實踐的。

But I -- they didn't let me do it, so I just -- you know,

但我--他們並沒讓我這樣做，於是我--你也知道，

they would only let me do other things.

他們只准許讓我做其他事情。

But I wasn't into selling whiskey; I was into selling ice.

但我其實也沒很想賣威士忌，我對賣冰比較有興趣。

The first works were actually objects.

最初的作品是實質的物體。

It was kind of a mixture of found object, product design and advertising.

是隨手拾來的東西，產品設計和廣告的混合物。

And I called them relics.

我稱之為遺跡。

They were displayed first at Stux Gallery in 1983.

1983初次在司塔克斯美術館展出。

This is the clown skull.

這是小丑的頭顱。

Is a remnant of a race of -- a very evolved race of entertainers.

--一種高度進化演藝界人種的殘骸。

They lived in Brazil, long time ago. (Laughter)

在很久之前，他們住在巴西。(笑聲)

This is the Ashanti joystick.

這是亞香緹搖桿。

Unfortunately, it has become obsolete because it was designed for Atari platform.

很不幸的，這已經被淘汰了，當初是為了Atari遊戲平台所設計的。(Atari公司在美國推出史上第一部家用遊戲機)

A Playstation II is in the works, maybe for the next TED I'll bring it.

作品裏還有一個PS2搭配使用的，或許下次我會把它帶來。

The rocking podium. (Laughter)

搖擺的講台。

This is the pre-Columbian coffeemaker. (Laughter)

這是比哥倫布發現新大陸還早出現的咖啡機。

Actually, the idea came out of an argument that I had at Starbucks,

事實上，這個點子來自我在星巴克的一場爭吵，

that I insisted that I wasn't having Colombian coffee;

我堅持說我喝得不是哥倫比亞咖啡，

the coffee was actually pre-Columbian.

這實際上是比哥倫布發現新大陸還早的咖啡 (壞掉的咖啡豆)。

The Bonsai table.

盆栽桌。

The entire Encyclopedia Britannica bound in a single volume, for travel purposes.

大英百科全書一本裝，方便旅行攜帶。

And the half tombstone, for people who are not dead yet.

還有半個墓碑，為還沒死的人準備的。

I wanted to take that into the realm of images,

我想把這些帶到影像的領域裡，

and I decided to make things that had the same identity conflicts.

而且我決定要做帶有相同本體衝突感的東西，

So I decided to do work with clouds.

所以我決定要用雲來創作。

Because clouds can mean anything you want.

因為雲可以代表任何你想要的東西。

But now I wanted to work in a very low-tech way,

但我想要用簡單的技術來完成，

so something that would mean at the same time

因此也同時也代表著，

a lump of cotton, a cloud and Durer's praying hands --

一大團棉花，一片雲以及Durer的祈禱的雙手 (Durer是文藝復興時期的德國藝術家)--

although this looks a lot more like Mickey Mouse's praying hands.

雖然這看起來比較像米老鼠的祈禱的雙手。

But I was still, you know -- this is a kitty cloud.

但我還是繼續創作 -- 這是一個貓咪雲。

They're called "Equivalents," after Alfred Stieglitz's work.

根據Alfred Stueglitz(近代攝影之父)的作品，這些被稱作等值物。

"The Snail."

"蝸牛"。

But I was still working with sculpture,

但我仍在作雕刻，

and I was really trying to go flatter and flatter.

且我很努力地將它平面化，

"The Teapot."

"茶壺"。

I had a chance to go to Florence, in -- I think it was '94,

我有個機會到佛羅倫斯--我記得是在1994年時，

and I saw Ghiberti's "Door of Paradise."

我看到了Ghiberti 的"天堂之門" (義大利文藝復興青銅雕刻家)，

And he did something that was very tricky.

而他做了非常有意思的事情，

He put together two different media from different periods of time.

他結合了來自兩個不同時期的不同媒體。

First, he got an age-old way of making it, which was relief,

最初，他用最傳統的製作方式，也就是浮雕，

and he worked this with three-point perspective, which was brand-new technology at the time.

而且他採用了三點透視法，這在當時是最新的技術。

And it's totally overkill.

它太具有殺傷力了。

And your eye doesn't know which level to read.

你的眼睛似乎找不到可以切入的層次。

And you become trapped into this kind of representation.

而且你會深陷於這種圖像中。

So I decided to make these very simple renderings,

於是我決定製作一些簡單的翻版，

that at first they are taken as a line drawing --

最初是用線條來表現。

you know, something that's very -- and then I did it with wire.

最簡單的表達方式--我用鐵絲來做。

The idea was to -- because everybody overlooks white -- like pencil drawings, you know?

這個點子是--因為大家易忽略白色--就像鉛筆畫一樣，你知道吧？

And they would look at it -- "Ah, it's a pencil drawing."

而他們會看著話說--阿，這是鉛筆畫。

Then you have this double take and see that it's actually something that existed in time.

然後你當裏看著看著，就了解這是當時真正存在的另一種東西。

It had a physicality,

當它有了實體時，

and you start going deeper and deeper into sort of narrative

你就會開始對它更深入的詮釋，

that goes this way, towards the image. So this is "Monkey with Leica."

這樣延續下去形成了圖像。這是"猴子與徠卡相機"。

"Relaxation."

"放輕鬆"。

"Fiat Lux."

"Fita燈"。

And the same way the history of representation

正如藝術呈現方式的歷史

evolved from line drawings to shaded drawings.

從線條畫發展到陰影畫，

And I wanted to deal with other subjects.

我想要接觸其他主題。

I started taking that into the realm of landscape,

我開始將這些元素轉為製作風景畫，

which is something that's almost a picture of nothing.

這可說是什麼都沒有的畫。

I made these pictures called "Pictures of Thread,"

我製作這些稱為線之畫的圖像，

and I named them after the amount of yards that I used to represent each picture.

而且我用呈現每張圖像所使用的線碼數來命名。

These always end up being a photograph at the end,

這些最後總是變得像張照片，

or more like an etching in this case.

或許這張更像蝕刻畫。

So this is a lighthouse.

這是一個燈塔。

This is "6,500 Yards," after Corot. "9,000 Yards," after Gerhard Richter.

這是"6500碼"，臨摹Corot的作品(法國19世紀畫家)。"9000碼"，臨摹Gerhard Richter的作品(德國當代藝術家)。

And I don't know how many yards, after John Constable.

至於這幅我不知道用了多少碼數，臨摹自John Constable的作品(英國風景畫家)。

Departing from the lines, I decided to tackle the idea of points,

揮別線條後，我決定著手於點的概念，

like which is more similar to the type of representation that we find in photographs themselves.

類似我們在照片中可看到的影像呈現方式。

I had met a group of children in the Caribbean island of Saint Kitts,

我在加勒比海的聖啟斯島上遇到一群小孩，

and I did work and play with them.

我跟他們一起工作和玩樂。

I got some photographs from them.

我有一些他們的照片。

Upon my arrival in New York, I decided --

一當我回到紐約，我決定--

they were children of sugar plantation workers.

他們是蔗糖農場工人的小孩。

And by manipulating sugar over a black paper, I made portraits of them.

藉由把糖灑在黑紙上，我作了他們的肖像。

These are -- (Applause) --

這些是--(掌聲)--

Thank you. This is "Valentina, the Fastest."

謝謝。這位是"速度最快的Valentina"。

It was just the name of the child,

這是小孩的名字，

with the little thing you get to know of somebody that you meet very briefly.

有和某人短暫相遇時，你得到的信息很少。

"Valicia."

"Valicia"。

"Jacynthe."

"Jacynthe"。

But another layer of representation was still introduced.

但另外一層次的表現手法仍然存在。

Because I was doing this while I was making these pictures,

因為當我製作這些圖像時，我得舔手指。

I realized that I could add still another thing

於是我了解到我可以添加別的東西進去。

I was trying to make a subject --

我試著做一個主題--

something that would interfere with the themes,

就是不同的主題可以互相干涉。

so chocolate is very good, because it has --

所以巧克力是非常好的媒介，因為它

it brings to mind ideas that go from scatology to romance.

--可以帶來從糞便到浪漫的各種聯想。

And so I decided to make these pictures,

因此我決定要做這些圖像，

and they were very large, so you had to walk away from it to be able to see them.

它們非常大，所以你必須走遠一點才能觀看。

So they're called "Pictures of Chocolate."

它們被稱作巧克力圖。

Freud probably could explain chocolate better than I. He was the first subject.

Freud或許可以在解釋巧克力方面做得比我更好。他是第一個主題。

And Jackson Pollock also.

這是Jackson Pollock(20世紀美國抽象派畫家)。

Pictures of crowds are particularly interesting,

群眾的照片特別有趣，

because, you know, you go to that --

因為，你知道，你--

you try to figure out the threshold with something you can define very easily,

你試著把它和你很輕易可以定義的東西聯繫起來，

like a face, goes into becoming just a texture.

像一張臉，變成只是單一的組織。

"Paparazzi."

"狗仔隊"。

I used the dust at the Whitney Museum to render some pieces of their collection.

我使用惠特尼博物館的灰塵來呈現他們的館藏作品。

And I picked minimalist pieces because they're about specificity.

我選了極簡抽象派藝術家的作品，因為他們非常具有特殊性。

And you render this with the most non-specific material,

而你使用並不特殊的材質來表現它們，

which is dust itself.

也就是灰塵。

Like, you know, you have the skin particles of every single museum visitor.

你知道，你有每個博物館參觀者的皮膚微粒。

They do a DNA scan of this, they will come up with a great mailing list.

他們做了DNA掃描，結果是一張數量可觀的郵寄列表。

This is Richard Serra.

這是Richard Serra(美國的極簡主義雕刻家)。

I bought a computer, and [they] told me it had millions of colors in it.

我買了一台電腦，他們告訴我裡頭有上百萬的顏色。

You know an artist's first response to this is, who counted it? You know?

你知道藝術家聽到的第一個反應是，是誰計算的？你知道嗎？

And I realized that I never worked with color,

然後我發現我從來不使用顏色，

because I had a hard time controlling the idea of single colors.

因為我很難控制自己使用單一顏色。

But once they're applied to numeric structure,

但是我套用數值的結構，

then you can feel more comfortable.

所以你看了會覺得比較舒服。

So the first time I worked with colors was by making these mosaics of Pantone swatches.

於是我第一次使用多種顏色來製作彩通色卡的馬賽克畫。

They end up being very large pictures,

結果是非常大的圖像，

and I photographed with a very large camera --

而我用非常大的相機拍攝--

an 8x10 camera.

一台8x10相機。

So you can see the surface of every single swatch --

所以你可以看到每張色卡的表面--

like in this picture of Chuck Close.

就像這張Chuck Close的照片一樣(美國照片寫實主義藝術家)。

And you have to walk very far to be able to see it.

而你必須走得非常遠才能看出整幅畫。

Also, the reference to Gerhard Richter's use of color charts --

另外還有，使用色卡臨摹Gerhard Richter的作品--

and the idea also entering another realm of representation that's very common to us today,

接著我想踏入另一個今日相當普見的藝術表現領域，

which is the bit map.

也就是點陣圖。

I ended up narrowing the subject to Monet's "Haystacks."

我最後將主題定為Monet的乾草堆。

This is something I used to do as a joke --

這是我習慣用的開玩笑手法--

you know, make -- the same like -- Robert Smithson's "Spiral Jetty" --

你知道，仿做--Robert Smithson(美國藝術家)螺旋防波堤--

and then leaving traces, as if it was done on a tabletop.

留下一些蛛絲馬跡，彷彿這是在桌上完成的。

I tried to prove that he didn't do that thing in the Salt Lake.

我試著證明他不是在猶他州鹽湖城做這個地景藝術。

But then, just doing the models, I was trying to explore the relationship

但是藉由做這個模型，我嘗試探討

between the model and the original.

模型和原創物之間的關係。

And I felt that I would have to actually go there and make some earthworks myself.

我覺得我必須真的到當地且自己做些地景藝術。

I opt for very simple line drawings -- kind of stupid looking.

我選擇非常簡單的線條圖--看起來有點愚蠢。

And at the same time, I was doing these very large constructions,

同時，我把它們做得非常大，

being 150 meters away.

有150公尺長。

Now I would do very small ones, which would be like --

然後我做些非常小的，就像是--

but under the same light, and I would show them together,

在同樣的燈光下，我將它們並排展示，

so the viewer would have to really figure it out what one he was looking.

所以參觀者必須弄清楚他在看得是哪一個。

I wasn't interested in the very large things, or in the small things.

我沒有對特別大的，或者小的東西感到興趣。

I was more interested in the things in between,

我對介於中間尺寸的東西比較有興趣，

you know, because you can leave an enormous range for ambiguity there.

你知道，因為你可在其中留下極大的模糊地帶。

This is like you see -- the size of a person over there.

這是你見到的--一個人的尺寸。

This is a pipe.

這是一個煙管。

A hanger.

一個衣架。

And this is another thing that I did -- you know working

而這是我做得另一件事 -- 你也知道，工作

-- everybody loves to watch somebody draw,

-- 人們都喜歡看別人畫圖，

but not many people have a chance to watch somebody draw in --

但不是很多人有機會看一個人畫圖 --

a lot of people at the same time, to evidence a single drawing.

很多人同時圍觀，見證一個線條誕生。

And I love this work,

而且我喜歡這個作品，

because I did these cartoonish clouds over Manhattan for a period of two months.

因為我在兩個月的期間內，在曼哈頓上空做這些卡通圖樣的雲。

And it was quite wonderful, because I had an interest -- an early interest -- in theater,

這經驗很美好，因為我很久以前就對劇場感到興趣，

that's justified on this thing.

這也驗證在這個作品上。

In theater, you have the character and the actor in the same place,

在劇場內，角色和演員共處一室，

trying to negotiate each other in front of an audience.

試著在觀眾前互相協商。

And in this, you'd have like a --

而在這個作品內，你看到 --

something that looks like a cloud, and it is a cloud at the same time.

一個像雲的東西，它同時也是雲，

So they're like perfect actors.

所以這些就像是完美的演員。

My interest in acting, especially bad acting, goes a long way.

我對演戲的興趣，特別是不好的演出，執著很長一段時間。

Actually, I once paid like 60 dollars

事實上，我有次付了60塊美金

to see a very great actor to do a version of "King Lear,"

去看一位傑出演員扮演李爾王(莎士比亞四大悲劇之一)，

and I felt really robbed, because by the time the actor started being King Lear,

但我覺得我被搶了，因為當那位演員開始演李爾王的時候，

he stopped being the great actor that I had paid money to see.

他不再是我付錢想要看的那位傑出演員。

On the other hand, you know, I paid like three dollars, I think --

往另一個方向想，你知道，我想我付了大概3塊美金--

and I went to a warehouse in Queens

我去皇后區的一間倉庫

to see a version of "Othello" by an amateur group.

看一個業餘團體的奧賽羅演出(莎士比亞四大悲劇之一)。

And it was quite fascinating, because you know the guy --

演出相當令人滿意，因為有個人 --

his name was Joey Grimaldi --

他叫作Joey Grimaldi --

he impersonated the Moorish general

他扮演這位摩爾人將軍

-- you know, for the first three minutes he was really that general,

-- 你知道，前三分鐘他真的是位將軍，

and then he went back into plumber, he worked as a plumber, so --

然後他回去當水管工，他的工作是水管工，所以 --

plumber, general, plumber, general --

水管工，將軍，水管工，將軍 --

so for three dollars, I saw two tragedies for the price of one.

所以我只付了三塊錢，以單場票價看到兩場悲劇。

See, I think it's not really about impression,

所以，我想，人們迷戀一個完美的幻象，

making people fall for a really perfect illusion,

其實不是真的跟印象有關，

as much as it is to make -- I usually work at the lowest threshold of visual illusion.

正如同 -- 我通常用最低的成本創造視覺幻象。

Because it's not about fooling somebody,

因為這跟愚弄某人沒關係，

it's actually giving somebody a measure of their own belief:

這實際上是讓人檢測他們自己的信仰：

how much you want to be fooled.

你多想被愚弄。

That's why we pay to go to magic shows and things like that.

這解釋了我們付錢去看魔術秀這類表演的原因。

Well, I think that's it.

我想就是那麼多了。

My time is nearly up.

我的時間到了。

Thank you very much.

謝謝各位。