Vinay Venkatraman: Technology crafts for the digitally underserved

13,219 views ・ 2015-07-17

TED


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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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翻译人员: Kang Rong SUN 校对人员: Hom Liu
00:12
Frugal Digital is essentially a small research group at C.I.D.
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节俭/富国电子(Frugal Digital)本质上是一家挂靠在哥本哈根互动设计机构下的小型研究机构
00:17
where we are looking to find
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哥本哈根互动设计机构的成员们一直在尝试研究
00:19
alternate visions of how to create a digitally inclusive society.
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改变对于如何创造一个包罗万象的电子社会的一些看法
00:24
That's what we're after.
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这是我们追求的目标
00:26
And we do this because we actually believe
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我们之所以这么做,是因为我们认为
00:28
that silicon technology today is mostly about
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目前的硅谷科技大多关于
00:31
a culture of excess.
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一种过剩文化
00:33
It's about the fastest and the most efficient
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它的主体大多关于最快的速度,最高的效率
00:35
and the most dazzling gadget you can have,
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最炫的工具
00:38
while about two-thirds of the world
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然而,世界上三分之二左右的人
00:40
can hardly reach the most basic of this technology
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几乎难以接触到这种最基本的科技
00:44
to even address fundamental needs in life,
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并用这种科技解决最基本的生活需求
00:48
including health care, education
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例如,医疗,教育
00:50
and all these kinds of very fundamental issues.
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以及其他所有最最基本的事项
00:54
So before I start, I want to talk about a little anecdote,
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所以,在我开始今天的演讲前,我想跟大家分享一个小故事
00:57
a little story about a man I met once in Mumbai.
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是关于一位我曾在孟买碰到的先生
01:01
So this man, his name is Sathi Shri.
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他名叫萨斯-佘理
01:03
He is an outstanding person,
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他非常杰出
01:06
because he's a small entrepreneur.
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因为他是一位企业家
01:08
He runs a little shop
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自己经营着一家小店
01:09
in one of the back streets of Mumbai.
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那家店位于孟买的一条穷街陋巷
01:11
He has this little 10-square-meter store,
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店面只有10平米左右
01:14
where so much is being done.
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但他却在这间简陋狭小的店铺里做了很多事情
01:17
It's incredible, because I couldn't believe my eyes
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令人难以置信,我简直不敢相信我自己的眼睛
01:19
when I once just happened to bump into him.
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当我有一次偶遇他的时候
01:21
Basically, what he does is, he has all these services
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他所提供的服务几乎包罗万象,无所不及
01:23
for micro-payments and booking tickets
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那些服务通常针对小额付款和在线订票
01:26
and all kinds of basic things that you would go online for,
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还有各种琐碎、基本的在线活动,你能想到的那些基本上都被涵盖在内
01:29
but he does it for people offline
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但是他是服务于线下的客户
01:31
and connects to the digital world.
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把线下的客户连接到电子世界中来
01:33
More importantly, he makes his money
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更重要的是,他的盈利模式是
01:35
by selling these mobile recharge coupons, you know,
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通过销售手机充值卡
01:38
for the prepaid subscriptions.
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给预付卡的用户
01:40
But then, in the backside, he's got this little nook
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然后,在店面,他有个小房间
01:43
with a few of his employees
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和一些员工
01:46
where they can fix almost anything.
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在里面他们就可以修理几乎所有东西
01:48
Any cell phone, any gadget you can bring them, they can fix it.
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包括所有手机,小工具,他们都可以修理
01:51
And it's pretty incredible because I took my iPhone there,
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覆盖的服务还很广泛,我曾经就拿过iPhone去修
01:55
and he was like, "Yeah, do you want an upgrade?"
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他说:“你是否需要升级?”
01:57
"Yes." (Laughter)
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“当然要!”(笑声)
01:59
I was a bit skeptical, but then, I decided
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当时我其实对他抱有怀疑,但是之后我决定
02:01
to give him a Nokia instead. (Laughter)
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还是先给他个诺基亚试试看吧(笑声)
02:06
But what I was amazed about is this reverse engineering
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不过之后我就吃惊了,他的逆向工程做得如此之好
02:11
and know-how that's built into this little two meters of space.
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他拿小小的两米空间内竟然蕴藏着如此深厚的知识功力
02:16
They have figured out everything that's required
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他们能够解决所有需要的东西
02:18
to dismantle, take things apart,
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例如拆解
02:20
rewrite the circuitry, re-flash the firmware,
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重排电路,更新固件
02:23
do whatever you want to with the phone,
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对手机无所不能
02:25
and they can fix anything so quickly.
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而且他们修理速度非常之快
02:28
You can hand over a phone this morning
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你可以把手机早上拿过去
02:30
and you can go pick it up after lunch,
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午饭后左右就可以取回了
02:32
and it was quite incredible.
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相当惊人
02:34
But then we were wondering whether this is
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于是我们差异这究竟是
02:35
a local phenomenon, or is truly global?
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当地的一个现象,还是在全球均属普遍现象
02:38
And, over time, we started understanding
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随着时间慢慢过去,我们开始逐渐理解
02:40
and systematically researching
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也开始系统地做一些研究
02:42
what this tinkering ecosystem is about,
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他们这种维修生态系统究竟是什么
02:44
because that is something that's happening
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因为这发生在
02:46
not just in one street corner in Mumbai.
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孟买的大街小巷,每个角落,并非只在这条街而已
02:48
It's actually happening in all parts of the country.
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甚至遍布全国
02:51
It's even happening in Africa, like, for example,
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乃至非洲,比如
02:53
in Cape Town we did extensive research on this.
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我们在开普敦对此做了大量研究
02:55
Even here in Doha I found this little nook
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即便在这里——多哈,我也能找到这个小小的角落
02:58
where you can get alarm clocks and watches fixed,
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你可以通过它修理闹钟和手表
03:01
and it's a lot of tiny little parts. It's not easy.
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闹钟、手表都有很多小零部件,修理起来着实不易
03:04
You've got to try it on your own to believe it.
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你自己试试就知道了
03:06
But what fuels this?
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但是是什么驱动了这些呢?
03:08
It's this entire ecosystem of low-cost parts
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就是整套低成本零件的生态系统
03:11
and supplies that are produced all over the world, literally,
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产自世界各地
03:15
and then redistributed to basically service this industry,
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而后,他们重新分配到这个产业
03:19
and you can even buy salvaged parts.
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你甚至可以通过他们买到二手零件
03:21
Basically, you don't have to necessarily buy
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你甚至基本上不用买
03:23
brand new things. You have condemned computers
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任何新的东西。你有个坏电脑
03:25
that are stripped apart,
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那些电脑没有了外壳
03:27
and you can buy salvaged components
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但是你可以买一些处理零部件
03:28
and things that you can reassemble in a new configuration.
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然后重新组装一台电脑
03:32
But what does this new, sort of, approach give us?
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那么我们可以从这种新的方式中学到什么呢?
03:36
That's the real question, because this is something
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这是真正关键的问题,因为有些东西一直存在着
03:37
that's been there, part of every society
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作为每个社会的一部分
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that's deprived of enough resources.
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需要耗费太多资源
03:42
But there's an interesting paradigm.
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但是,同时也有一个有趣的范式
03:44
There's the traditional crafts,
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通常现有传统手工艺
03:45
and then there's the technology crafts.
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而后演变成科技含量高的工艺
03:47
We call it the technology crafts because these are emerging.
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我们称之为“科技含量高的工艺”是因为它们还刚刚兴起
03:50
They're not something that's been established.
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它们并非成熟的产业
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It's not something that's institutionalized.
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没有形成气候
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It's not taught in universities.
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大学里也没有关于这一领域的课程和研究
03:56
It's taught [by] word of mouth,
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而是口口相传的
03:58
and it's an informal education system around this.
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属于非正式教育体系
04:00
So we said, "What can we get out of this?
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因此,我们想说:“我们究竟可以从中学到什么呢?”
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You know, like, what are the key values that we can get out of this?"
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你认为我们应从中学习什么关键价值观呢?
04:05
The main thing is a fix-it-locally culture,
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我认为主要是一种文化,即力争在本地修复
04:08
which is fantastic because it means that your product
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这简直太棒了,因为这意味着你的产品
04:10
or your service doesn't have to go through
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或服务无需经过
04:12
a huge bureaucratic system to get it fixed.
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冗长的行政系统,才最终得以修复
04:15
It also affords us cheap fabrication, which is fantastic,
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同时,它也便于我们获得经济实惠的附件,这也非常好,
04:18
so it means that you can do a lot more with it.
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因为它意味着你可以花同样的钱做更多的事
04:20
And then, the most important thing is,
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然后,最重要的是
04:22
it gives us large math for low cost.
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它为我们大大地节省了成本
04:24
So it means that you can actually embed
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也就意味着你可以运用
04:27
pretty clever algorithms and lots of other kinds
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很多巧妙的算法
04:30
of extendable ideas into really simple devices.
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把它更广泛地应用于一些实际上非常简单的设备上
04:34
So, what we call this is a silicon cottage industry.
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因此,我们称之为硅谷“山寨”行业
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It's basically what was the system or the paradigm
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基本上,它就是工业革命前的系统或范式
04:42
before the industrial revolution is now re-happening
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这种系统和范式现在再次上演
04:44
in a whole new way in small digital shops
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以一种全新的方式,开展在小规模电子商店里
04:47
across the planet in most developing countries.
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遍布全球大多数的发展中国家
04:50
So, we kind of toyed around with this idea,
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因此,我们就考虑这个想法
04:54
and we said, "What can we do with this?
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我们想:“我们能利用这个想法做些什么呢?
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Can we make a little product or a service out of it?"
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能不能用它来发明一些小产品或设计什么服务呢?“
04:59
So one of the first things we did is this thing called
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因此我们做的第一件事就是
05:01
a multimedia platform. We call it a lunch box.
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多媒体平台。我们称之为”午餐盒“
05:03
Basically one of the contexts that we studied was
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我们研究的场景之一是
05:06
schools in very remote parts of India.
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位于印度很偏远的学校
05:10
So there is this amazing concept called the one-teacher school,
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这个惊人的想法在当地被叫做”一个老师的学校“
05:13
which is basically a single teacher who is a multitasker
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这唯一的老师在那里扮演着多重角色
05:16
who teaches this amazing little social setting.
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在这让人惊讶的小型社会场合中教课
05:18
It's an informal school,
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它是一所非正规教育的学校
05:20
but it's really about holistic education.
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但教育的领域很是全面
05:22
The only thing that they don't have
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他们唯一没有的是
05:23
is access to resources. They don't even have a textbook
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资源。他们甚至没有教科书
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sometimes, and they don't even have a proper curriculum.
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有时候,他们也没有合适的课程
05:28
So we said, "What can we do to empower this teacher
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所以我们就像:”我们如何才能让这位老师有更多‘权力’呢
05:32
to do more?" How to access the digital world?
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从而他可以施展更多?”如何让他接触到电子世界?
05:35
Instead of being the sole guardian of information,
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而非作为唯一的信息守护者
05:37
be a facilitator to all this information.
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让他能够传递这些信息
05:40
So we said, "What are the steps required to empower the teacher?"
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所以我们想:“要做到这一点哪些步骤是必要的呢?”
05:43
How do you make this teacher into a digital gateway,
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如何让这位老师成为数字的大门
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and how do you design an inexpensive multimedia platform
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如何设计一个花费不太高昂的多媒体平台
05:48
that can be constructed locally and serviced locally?"
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而且这个平台需要在本地搭建,并服务本地“
05:51
So we walked around.
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于是我们在当地考察了一番
05:53
We went and scavenged the nearby markets,
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去了一些就近的市场
05:56
and we tried to understand, "What can we pick up that will make this happen?"
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试着去了解,”通过学习什么东西能促进实现这个想法?“
06:00
So the thing that we got
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我们从中学到了一点
06:02
was a little mobile phone with a little pico projector
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那就是配备小投影仪的移动电话
06:05
that comes for about 60 dollars.
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一台这样的电话大约是60美元
06:08
We went a bought a flashlight with a very big battery,
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我们买了一个带大电池的闪光灯
06:10
and a bunch of small speakers.
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还有一些小的麦克风
06:12
So essentially, the mobile phone gives us
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于是,这部手机给了我们
06:14
a connected multimedia platform.
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一个连接外界的多媒体平台
06:16
It allows us to get online and allows us to load up files
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我们可以通过它上网,上传文件
06:20
of different formats and play them.
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包括各种格式,还可以播放、观看这些文件
06:22
The flashlight gives us this really intense, bright L.E.D.,
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闪光灯则是一个发光很强,很明亮的LED
06:25
and six hours worth of rechargeable battery pack,
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还带有可充电的电池,可支撑长达6小时
06:28
and the lunch box is a nice little package
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这个”午饭盒“可谓一个很不错的小装备
06:30
in which you can put everything inside,
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你可以往里面放任何东西
06:32
and a bunch of mini speakers to sort of
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以及一些小型扬声器用来
06:34
amplify the sound large enough.
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扩大音量
06:35
Believe me, those little classrooms are really noisy.
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请相信我,那些小教室确实非常嘈杂
06:39
They are kids who scream at the top of their voices,
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小孩子们通常都大喊大叫
06:42
and you really have to get above that.
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因此你的音量必须高过他们
06:43
And we took it back to this little tinkering setup
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我们拿回这件小东西
06:46
of a mobile phone repair shop,
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把它拿到那个维修铺
06:48
and then the magic happens.
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随后,奇妙的事情就发生了
06:49
We dismantle the whole thing,
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我们拆解了它
06:51
we reassemble it in a new configuration,
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把它重新组装
06:53
and we do this hardware mashup,
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把硬件重整一番
06:55
systematically training the guy how to do this.
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系统性地培训了团队成员如何操作
06:58
Out comes this, a little lunch box -- form factor.
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于是,这个小”午饭盒”就诞生了!
07:01
(Applause)
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(掌声)
07:08
And we systematically field tested,
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之后,我们进行了系统性地实地测试
07:11
because in the field testing we learned some
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因为在这些实地测试中我们可以了解到
07:14
important lessons, and we went through many iterations.
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一些要点,我们经历一遍又一遍的重复
07:16
One of the key issues was battery consumption and charging.
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一个关键的问题是电池耗电量和充电
07:19
Luminosity was an issue, when you have too much bright sunlight outside.
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亮度也是个问题,有时候室外的阳光非常刺眼
07:23
Often the roofs are broken, so you don't have enough
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因为很多情况下屋顶是破损的,因此你的教室
07:25
darkness in the classroom to do these things.
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可能暗度不合适
07:28
We extended this idea. We tested it many times over,
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我们延伸了这一想法,再次反复调试了很多次
07:31
and the next version we came up with was a box
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之后的升级版
07:34
that kind of could trickle charge on solar energy,
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可以利用太阳能来充电
07:36
but most importantly connect to a car battery,
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更重要的是,它可以连接到汽车电池
07:39
because a car battery is a ubiquitous source of power
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因为汽车电池是比较普及的能源形式
07:42
in places where there's not enough electricity
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特别是当地这种电力不完善的地方
07:44
or erratic electricity.
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或者说供电不稳定
07:46
And the other key thing that we did was
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我们做的另外一件很关键的事情是
07:48
make this box run off a USB key, because we realized
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给它设计了一个USB接口,因为我们意识到
07:51
that even though there was GPRS and all that on paper,
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纵使有GPRS信号,和论文里面都有的东西,
07:54
at least, in theory, it was much more efficient
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至少理论上更有效的方式是
07:57
to send the data on a little USB key by surface mail.
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用U盘传送数据
08:00
It might take a few days to get there,
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可能需要几天才能到
08:02
but at least it gets there in high definition
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但至少清晰度很高
08:05
and in a reliable quality.
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而且质量可靠
08:07
So we made this box, and we tested it again
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因此我们做了这个小盒子,然后重新测试了一下
08:09
and again and again, and we're going through
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并随着设计不断测试
08:11
multiple iterations to do these things.
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不断改进
08:12
But it's not limited to just education.
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但是这个技术绝非仅限于用于教育
08:15
This kind of a technique or metrology
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这种技术
08:17
can actually be applied to other kinds of areas,
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几乎可以用于任何领域
08:19
and I'm going to tell you one more little story.
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让我再告诉你一个小故事
08:21
It's about this little device called a medi-meter.
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这个故事关于一个叫做“中介测量器”的小设备
08:23
It's basically a little health care screening tool that we developed.
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这是我们研发的一个小型健康检测仪
08:27
In India, there is a context of these amazing people,
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在印度,有一群
08:30
the health care workers called ASHA workers.
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惊人的医疗工作者——ASHA工作人员
08:32
They are essentially foot soldiers for the health care system
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他们堪称医疗卫生系统的排头兵
08:35
who live in the local community and are trained
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生活在当地社区,接受过
08:37
with basic tools and basic concepts of health care,
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基本医疗概念和工具操作的培训
08:40
and the main purpose is basically to inform people
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主要目的是告诉人们
08:44
to basically, how to lead a better life, but also
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如何过更好的生活,同时
08:47
to divert or sort of make recommendations
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提出一些建议
08:50
of what kind of health care should they approach?
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关于他们应该获取哪种医疗服务?
08:53
They are basically referral services, essentially.
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从本质上来讲,他们是为人们推荐服务
08:56
But the problem with that is that we realized
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但是我们觉得这其中的问题是
08:58
after a bunch of research that they are amazing
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经过一系列研究之后,他们会
09:02
at referring people to the nearest clinic
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告诉人们哪里是最近的诊室
09:05
or the public health care system, but what happens at the
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或者公共医疗护理系统,但是
09:08
public health care system is this: these incredibly long lines
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那些公共医疗护理系统的一个问题是:这些地方通常都需要排很长的队
09:12
and too many people who overload the system
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人太多了,使得系统超负荷运转
09:14
simply because there's not enough doctors and facilities
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简单说是因为医生和设备数量不够
09:17
for the population that's being referred.
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对比需要使用这些资源的人数
09:19
So everything from a common cold
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因此,下至普通感冒
09:21
to a serious case of malaria gets almost the same
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上至严重的疟疾,基本上都是同等对待
09:24
level of attention, and there's no priorities.
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没有分优先级
09:27
So we said, "Come on, there's got to be a better way
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于是我们就想:“不行!一定得有一种更好的方式!
09:29
of doing this for sure."
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需要有更好的办法来解决这个问题!”
09:31
So we said, "What can we do with the ASHA worker
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“那么我们该怎么跟ASHA工作人员一起合作呢
09:34
that'll allow this ASHA worker to become an interesting filter,
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才能让他们成为一个好的筛选机制
09:37
but not just a filter, a really well thought through referral
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而不仅仅是一个筛子而已,能够让他们发挥推荐的作用
09:40
system that allows load balancing of the network,
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进而还可以平衡系统内的工作量
09:43
and directs patients to different sources of health care
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把不同病人分配到不同的卫生资源
09:47
based on the severity or the criticalness of those situations?"
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根据他们疾病的严重程度”
09:51
So the real key question was,
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于是最关键的问题就是
09:53
how do we empower this woman?
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我们如何助力这些女士们?
09:55
How do we empower her with simple tools
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如何用比较简单的工具让她们有能力胜任?
09:57
that's not diagnostic but more screening in nature
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本质上是更多的侧重于筛选,而非严格诊断
10:00
so she at least knows how to advise the patients better?
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从而让她们如何给病人更好的建议?
10:04
And that'll make such a huge difference on the system,
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这对系统会产生很大的影响
10:06
because the amount of waiting time and the amount of
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因为等候的时间太长,并且他们需要做跋涉的路程太远
10:11
distances that people need to travel, often sometimes
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有时候当地人需要经过
10:12
seven to 15 kilometers, sometimes by foot,
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7-15公里,有时候甚至是步行的
10:15
to get a simple health check done, is very, very detrimental
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才可以获得一次简单的健康检查,这是极其不利的
10:21
in the sense that it really dissuades people
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从某种程度上讲,甚至让人们放弃
10:23
from getting access to health care.
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去获取医疗服务
10:25
So if there was something that she could do,
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因此,如果她们可以做到
10:27
that would be amazing.
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刚才提到的那些事情,那将令人震撼而惊奇
10:28
So what we did was that we converted this device
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于是我们把这个想法转换成了这个设备
10:31
into a medical device.
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这个医疗仪器
10:33
I want to demo this actually,
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让我来为你们展示一下
10:34
because it's a very simple process.
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因为过程很简单
10:37
Bruno, do you want to join us? (Cheers)
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布鲁诺,想一起来吗?(鼓励)
10:39
Come along. (Applause)
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来吧!(掌声)
10:46
So, what we're going to do is that
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我们要做的就是
10:49
we're going to measure a few basic parameters on you,
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来测量你的一些基本指标
10:52
including your pulse rate and the amount of oxygen
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包括,脉搏、心率、氧饱和率
10:54
that's there in your blood.
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就是那些在你血液里的氧气含量
10:56
So you're going to put your thumb on top of this.
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你只要把手指放在上面就可以了
11:00
Bruno Giussani: Like this, works?
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布鲁诺:就像这样?可以吗?
11:01
Vinay Venkatraman: Yeah. That's right. BG: Okay.
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威内:对,没错。布鲁诺:好
11:03
VV: So I'm going to start it up. I hope it works.
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威内:好,那我要开始啦!希望它能成功。
11:07
(Beeps) It even beeps, because it's an alarm clock, after all.
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(嘀嘀声)它会发出嘀嘀声,因为它毕竟是个闹钟
11:11
So ... (Laughter)
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呵呵(笑声)
11:13
So I take it into the start position, and then
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好,现在我从头开始,然后
11:18
I press the read button. (Beeps)
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我按下阅读键(嘀嘀声)
11:21
So it's taking a little reading from you. (Beeps)
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于是,它就开始测量了你的那些指标了(嘀嘀声)
11:27
And then the pointer goes and points to three different options.
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然后指针就指向三个不同的标准
11:30
Let's see what happens here.
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让我们来看一看
11:33
(Beeps) Oh Bruno, you can go home, actually.
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(嘀嘀声)哦,布鲁诺,你可以回去了
11:35
BG: Great. Good news. (Applause)
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BG:太棒了!好消息!(掌声)
11:39
VV: So ... (Applause)
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威内:呵呵,那么……(掌声)
11:41
So the thing about this is that
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从中我们可以看到
11:44
if the pointer, unfortunately, had pointed to the red spot,
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如果指针不幸地指向红色区域
11:48
we would have to rush you to a hospital.
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它警示我们要赶紧去医院
11:50
Luckily, not today. And if it had pointed to the orange
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还好今天不是这样。如果它指向橙色区域
11:54
or the amber, it basically meant you had to have,
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或者受琥珀色,那么说明你必须
11:57
sort of, more continuous care from the health care worker.
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从医疗工作者那里获取持续的护理服务
12:00
So that was a very simple three-step screening process
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所以,这可以说是一个很简单的三部曲检验流程
12:03
that could basically change the equation
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但是却可以带来很多改变
12:05
of how public health care works in so many different ways.
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对公共医疗卫生产生方方面面的影响
12:08
BG: Thank you for the good news. VV: Yeah.
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布鲁诺:谢谢你的好消息!威内:没关系!
12:09
(Applause)
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(掌声)
12:14
So, very briefly, I'll just explain to you how this is done,
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所以,我已经向各位简要介绍了这个设备的基本工作方式
12:17
because that's the more interesting part.
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因为这部分比较有趣
12:20
So essentially, the three things that are required
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从根本上来讲,需要具备三点
12:22
to make this conversion from this guy to this guy
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来确保这一转变
12:27
is a cheap remote control for a television
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首先是价格低廉电视机的遥控器
12:31
that you can almost find in every home today,
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这个你在哪里都买得到
12:34
some parts from a computer mouse, basically,
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其次是电脑鼠标的一些部件
12:38
something that you can scavenge for very low cost,
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这些你也可以以很低的价格淘到
12:41
and a few parts that have to be pre-programmed.
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还有就是一些编过程的部件
12:44
Basically this is a micro-controller with a few
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换句话说,它就是个小遥控器,外加一些
12:47
extra components that can be shipped for very little cost
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零部件,都是极其便宜的东西
12:49
across the world, and that's what is all required
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在世界上任何地方一样。这就是所需要的全部了
12:52
with a little bit of local tinkering talent
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可能还需要一点当地的维修人才
12:55
to convert the device into something else.
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来转换这个设备
12:58
So we are right now doing some systematic field tests
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所以我们现在要做的就是一些系统的实地测试
13:01
to basically ascertain whether something like this actually
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从而确认这个设备是否
13:04
makes sense to the ASHA worker.
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能够合理地应用于ASHA工作人员的工作场合
13:06
We are going through some reference tests to compare it
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我们开展了一些对比测试来进行比较
13:09
against professional equipment to see if there's a degree
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跟那些专业设备进行对比,看看
13:13
of change in efficacy and if it actually makes an impact
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在效率方面的提高和对
13:15
in people's lives. But most importantly,
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人们生活产生的实际响。不过,最重要的当属
13:18
what we are trying to do right now
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我们现在尝试做的
13:19
is we are trying to scale this up, because there
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是扩大它的规模
13:22
are over 250,000 ASHA workers on the ground
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因为总共有超过25万ASHA工作人员
13:24
who are these amazing foot soldiers, and if we can
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作为医疗领域的排头兵,如果我们可以
13:27
give at least a fraction of them the access to these things,
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至少给他们中的一部分这些设备
13:31
it just changes the way the economics of public health care
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就可以大大改变公共医疗卫生的经济
13:34
works, and it changes the way systems actually function,
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运作方式了,它改变了系统的运作方式
13:37
not just on a systematic planning level,
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而不仅是在系统性统筹计划层面上的
13:41
but also in a very grassroots, bottom-up level.
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但是也非常草根,非常自下而上
13:44
So that's it, and we hope to do this in a big way.
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就是这样,我们希望能更大规模地做这些事情
13:47
Thank you. (Applause)
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谢谢!(掌声)
13:50
(Applause)
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(掌声)
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