Vinay Venkatraman: Technology crafts for the digitally underserved

13,410 views ・ 2015-07-17

TED


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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Yu-Sheng Lin 審譯者: Yuguo Zhang
00:12
Frugal Digital is essentially a small research group at C.I.D.
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簡約數位研究小組是一個來自哥本哈根數位設計學院
00:17
where we are looking to find
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這裡我們在追尋的是
00:19
alternate visions of how to create a digitally inclusive society.
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可以創造一個普遍數位化的社會的各種可能發展方向
00:24
That's what we're after.
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這就是我們努力的目標
00:26
And we do this because we actually believe
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這個目標源自於我們所體會到的一個現象
00:28
that silicon technology today is mostly about
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目前的電子科技的發展
00:31
a culture of excess.
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絕大多數偏向過度追求
00:33
It's about the fastest and the most efficient
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速度與效能
00:35
and the most dazzling gadget you can have,
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還有更炫的神奇小玩意
00:38
while about two-thirds of the world
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然而全世界有將近三分之二的人口
00:40
can hardly reach the most basic of this technology
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卻幾乎沒有機會利用電子科技
00:44
to even address fundamental needs in life,
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來解決生存的基本需求問題
00:48
including health care, education
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包括健康醫療, 教育
00:50
and all these kinds of very fundamental issues.
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還有其他的非常基本的生存問題
00:54
So before I start, I want to talk about a little anecdote,
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我想先講一個小故事
00:57
a little story about a man I met once in Mumbai.
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在印度孟買的時候,
01:01
So this man, his name is Sathi Shri.
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我遇到了一個神奇的人
01:03
He is an outstanding person,
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他的名字叫 Sathi Shri
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because he's a small entrepreneur.
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是一家小店的老闆
01:08
He runs a little shop
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他的小店
01:09
in one of the back streets of Mumbai.
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在孟買的一條小街上
01:11
He has this little 10-square-meter store,
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店面大概10平方米(三坪多一點)
01:14
where so much is being done.
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營業項目之多
01:17
It's incredible, because I couldn't believe my eyes
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讓人無法想像
01:19
when I once just happened to bump into him.
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我幾乎無法相信我所看到的.
01:21
Basically, what he does is, he has all these services
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基本上, 他的店提供了以下的服務項目
01:23
for micro-payments and booking tickets
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小額付款, 訂購票劵,
01:26
and all kinds of basic things that you would go online for,
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還有你平常上網會做的其他事情
01:29
but he does it for people offline
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而他的店就是讓這些無法上網的人,
01:31
and connects to the digital world.
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也能享用到數位世界的各種便利服務.
01:33
More importantly, he makes his money
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他的店的主要營收來源
01:35
by selling these mobile recharge coupons, you know,
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是販賣儲值點數
01:38
for the prepaid subscriptions.
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給預付卡型態的手機用戶
01:40
But then, in the backside, he's got this little nook
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當我進到小店的後半, 看到有個小小的工作台
01:43
with a few of his employees
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還有幾個員工在那裏
01:46
where they can fix almost anything.
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負責修理各式各樣的東西
01:48
Any cell phone, any gadget you can bring them, they can fix it.
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任何廠牌的手機, 數位小玩意, 他們都能修好
01:51
And it's pretty incredible because I took my iPhone there,
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當我拿著我的 iphone 到這家店的時候, 被嚇了一跳
01:55
and he was like, "Yeah, do you want an upgrade?"
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因為他問我 "先生, 你的 iphone 要刷機嗎?"
01:57
"Yes." (Laughter)
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"嗯...." (笑聲)
01:59
I was a bit skeptical, but then, I decided
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我有點擔心, 於是當時的決定
02:01
to give him a Nokia instead. (Laughter)
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是把我的另一隻手機, Nokia 的交給他 (笑聲)
02:06
But what I was amazed about is this reverse engineering
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我非常訝異的看到了在這裡發生的逆向工程
02:11
and know-how that's built into this little two meters of space.
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還有在這兩米長的工作檯上的維修作業指引
02:16
They have figured out everything that's required
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他們搞懂了所有的維修所需的知識
02:18
to dismantle, take things apart,
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如何拆開各種裝置, 分解模組與元件
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rewrite the circuitry, re-flash the firmware,
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修改電路板, 刷新版的韌體
02:23
do whatever you want to with the phone,
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你想怎麼搞你的手機, 他們都能做到.
02:25
and they can fix anything so quickly.
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而且速度超快.
02:28
You can hand over a phone this morning
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早上把手機送進去,
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and you can go pick it up after lunch,
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吃過午飯就能去拿回來.
02:32
and it was quite incredible.
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真的是非常神奇.
02:34
But then we were wondering whether this is
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於是我們就開始在想
02:35
a local phenomenon, or is truly global?
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這個神奇的小店是個特例, 還是其他地方也有?
02:38
And, over time, we started understanding
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在有系統的研究了一段時間之後
02:40
and systematically researching
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我們開始了解到
02:42
what this tinkering ecosystem is about,
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這種 "修補匠" 的產業體系
02:44
because that is something that's happening
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並不僅僅存在於
02:46
not just in one street corner in Mumbai.
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印度孟買的一條小街上的一家小店
02:48
It's actually happening in all parts of the country.
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而是在印度整個國家的每個區域都有
02:51
It's even happening in Africa, like, for example,
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我們在非洲調查時 也發現類似的狀況, 例如:
02:53
in Cape Town we did extensive research on this.
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我們在南非開普敦 看到的這個小攤子.
02:55
Even here in Doha I found this little nook
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還有在這裡(卡達的杜哈) 我也看到了這樣的小攤子
02:58
where you can get alarm clocks and watches fixed,
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精修各式鐘錶
03:01
and it's a lot of tiny little parts. It's not easy.
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如果你自己試過修理鐘錶的話, 你就會知道
03:04
You've got to try it on your own to believe it.
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裡面有很多很小的組件, 修起來很不容易的
03:06
But what fuels this?
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這種 "修補匠" 產業體系 是怎麼形成的呢?
03:08
It's this entire ecosystem of low-cost parts
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目前全球化的生產體系,
03:11
and supplies that are produced all over the world, literally,
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提供了低價的零件與原料的貨源
03:15
and then redistributed to basically service this industry,
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來支援這類型修補匠產業的運作
03:19
and you can even buy salvaged parts.
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甚至於還可以利用拆船貨(二手零件)
03:21
Basically, you don't have to necessarily buy
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不必花錢買全新的零件
03:23
brand new things. You have condemned computers
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從報廢的電腦裡面
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that are stripped apart,
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解體拆出可用的零件
03:27
and you can buy salvaged components
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利用這些二手零件
03:28
and things that you can reassemble in a new configuration.
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組裝成新的用途
03:32
But what does this new, sort of, approach give us?
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這種新的 "修補匠" 對我們而言有什麼用處呢?
03:36
That's the real question, because this is something
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既然這種修補匠產業普遍存在於
03:37
that's been there, part of every society
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每個資源貧乏的社會中
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that's deprived of enough resources.
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那就值得認真的想想, 如何來利用他們
03:42
But there's an interesting paradigm.
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這裡有一個既存的有趣類比
03:44
There's the traditional crafts,
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就是傳統的工匠產業
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and then there's the technology crafts.
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跟在這裡談到的科技修補匠
03:47
We call it the technology crafts because these are emerging.
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這種科技修補匠 是一種新興行業
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They're not something that's been established.
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並不算是完全定型的
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It's not something that's institutionalized.
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也還沒有正式的定義
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It's not taught in universities.
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學校裡不會教到
03:56
It's taught [by] word of mouth,
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只有口耳相傳
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and it's an informal education system around this.
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屬於非正規的教學傳承
04:00
So we said, "What can we get out of this?
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如同前面說過的, 這種典型有什麼用呢?
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You know, like, what are the key values that we can get out of this?"
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能發揮什麼重要的價值呢?
04:05
The main thing is a fix-it-locally culture,
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其中最關鍵的 就是 "在地解決" 的觀念
04:08
which is fantastic because it means that your product
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這是很棒的, 因為如果能這樣, 你的產品
04:10
or your service doesn't have to go through
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或是服務的問題, 不必透過
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a huge bureaucratic system to get it fixed.
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龐大而官僚的體系就可以被解決.
04:15
It also affords us cheap fabrication, which is fantastic,
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另外一件很棒的事情, 就是可以用很低的成本,
04:18
so it means that you can do a lot more with it.
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來嘗試製造各種的新東西.
04:20
And then, the most important thing is,
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而且最關鍵的,
04:22
it gives us large math for low cost.
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就是用很低的成本, 就能做到很大的彈性,
04:24
So it means that you can actually embed
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所以基本上你可以把
04:27
pretty clever algorithms and lots of other kinds
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各式各樣的演算法 還有創意發想
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of extendable ideas into really simple devices.
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做成簡單的裝置
04:34
So, what we call this is a silicon cottage industry.
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我們把這個取名為 家庭手工科技業
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It's basically what was the system or the paradigm
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就好比工業革命發生前的家庭手工業
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before the industrial revolution is now re-happening
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在現代以新的型態再次發生
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in a whole new way in small digital shops
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就是這些出現在全球各地的
04:47
across the planet in most developing countries.
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發展中國家的地方性的 科技修補匠工房
04:50
So, we kind of toyed around with this idea,
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從這樣的想法來激盪發想
04:54
and we said, "What can we do with this?
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問自己可以來嘗試些什麼呢?
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Can we make a little product or a service out of it?"
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能不能利用這些科技修補匠工房, 做出些產品或服務呢?
04:59
So one of the first things we did is this thing called
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在我們一開始嘗試的案子中, 有一個是關於
05:01
a multimedia platform. We call it a lunch box.
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多媒體的平台裝置, 我們叫它 "便當盒"
05:03
Basically one of the contexts that we studied was
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這個案子所研究的使用情境,
05:06
schools in very remote parts of India.
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是在印度偏遠地區的學校裏頭
05:10
So there is this amazing concept called the one-teacher school,
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這些學校很特別, 只有一個老師
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which is basically a single teacher who is a multitasker
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扮演學校裡的多種角色
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who teaches this amazing little social setting.
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在如此特別的環境下執行教育工作
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It's an informal school,
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雖然不算是正統的學校體系
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but it's really about holistic education.
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但是所教的內容是相當全面化的
05:22
The only thing that they don't have
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這種學校跟老師所需要的 是教學的資源
05:23
is access to resources. They don't even have a textbook
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他們沒有教科書
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sometimes, and they don't even have a proper curriculum.
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有的甚至沒有經過規劃的課程
05:28
So we said, "What can we do to empower this teacher
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我們能如何幫忙這些學校裡的老師
05:32
to do more?" How to access the digital world?
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取得數位世界的資源, 來教得更多更好呢?
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Instead of being the sole guardian of information,
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讓老師從一個孤獨的資訊監護者
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be a facilitator to all this information.
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轉身變成大量資訊的導引者
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So we said, "What are the steps required to empower the teacher?"
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要如何逐步的幫忙這些學校老師變身呢?
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How do you make this teacher into a digital gateway,
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如何讓他們變成數位資訊的門戶呢
05:46
and how do you design an inexpensive multimedia platform
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能不能設計出一個 便宜的多媒體平台裝置
05:48
that can be constructed locally and serviced locally?"
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能夠 在本地製造, 並且使用呢?
05:51
So we walked around.
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於是我們到附近的商場裡
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We went and scavenged the nearby markets,
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思考並尋找著有哪些材料
05:56
and we tried to understand, "What can we pick up that will make this happen?"
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可以派上用場, 做出我們想像的東西.
06:00
So the thing that we got
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結果我們選上的
06:02
was a little mobile phone with a little pico projector
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包括這個手機, 具有微型投影的功能
06:05
that comes for about 60 dollars.
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大約60美元
06:08
We went a bought a flashlight with a very big battery,
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另外我們還買了一個 有著大電池的手電筒
06:10
and a bunch of small speakers.
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還有幾個小型喇叭
06:12
So essentially, the mobile phone gives us
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我們是這樣盤算的:
06:14
a connected multimedia platform.
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把手機當作可連網的多媒體平台
06:16
It allows us to get online and allows us to load up files
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透過網路可以下載各種格式的檔案
06:20
of different formats and play them.
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並且播放投影出來
06:22
The flashlight gives us this really intense, bright L.E.D.,
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手電筒裏頭包括了 高亮度的LED(發光二極體)
06:25
and six hours worth of rechargeable battery pack,
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還有可用到六小時的充電電池組
06:28
and the lunch box is a nice little package
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這些所有的零件,
06:30
in which you can put everything inside,
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應該可以放到一個小小的便當盒裡
06:32
and a bunch of mini speakers to sort of
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而這些小型喇叭
06:34
amplify the sound large enough.
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可以放大播放的聲音
06:35
Believe me, those little classrooms are really noisy.
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蓋過教室裡面吵鬧的
06:39
They are kids who scream at the top of their voices,
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小孩們的喊叫聲
06:42
and you really have to get above that.
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讓大家都聽得到
06:43
And we took it back to this little tinkering setup
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所以我們把這樣的想法 跟這些零件
06:46
of a mobile phone repair shop,
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帶到一家手機修理鋪
06:48
and then the magic happens.
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神奇的事情就這樣發生了
06:49
We dismantle the whole thing,
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這些東西被拆開之後
06:51
we reassemble it in a new configuration,
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我們把它重新組裝
06:53
and we do this hardware mashup,
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拼裝成為一個新的裝置
06:55
systematically training the guy how to do this.
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並且以系統化的方式 教工匠如何製作
06:58
Out comes this, a little lunch box -- form factor.
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這種只有便當盒大小的新產品
07:01
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
07:08
And we systematically field tested,
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然後我們以系統化的方式 進行現場實驗
07:11
because in the field testing we learned some
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從實驗中發現了很多重要的議題
07:14
important lessons, and we went through many iterations.
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進行一次又一次的反覆修改與實驗
07:16
One of the key issues was battery consumption and charging.
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有個議題 是關於電池的充放電
07:19
Luminosity was an issue, when you have too much bright sunlight outside.
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另外一個議題 是投影的亮度, 在好天氣陽光充足的日子
07:23
Often the roofs are broken, so you don't have enough
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很多教室的屋頂是破的, 所以教室裡面不夠暗
07:25
darkness in the classroom to do these things.
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投影的效果不好, 沒辦法上課.
07:28
We extended this idea. We tested it many times over,
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我們進一步的發想, 試了很多次
07:31
and the next version we came up with was a box
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發展出的第二版的 盒子
07:34
that kind of could trickle charge on solar energy,
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上面有太陽能板可以充電
07:36
but most importantly connect to a car battery,
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而更重要的是可以接上汽車電源
07:39
because a car battery is a ubiquitous source of power
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因為就算在供電不普遍
07:42
in places where there's not enough electricity
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或是供電不穩定的地區
07:44
or erratic electricity.
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車電仍然是相當普遍可得的電源來源
07:46
And the other key thing that we did was
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另外還有一個重要的改變
07:48
make this box run off a USB key, because we realized
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是把內容用USB拇指碟的方式來傳送
07:51
that even though there was GPRS and all that on paper,
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因為我們了解到, 就算有行動上網可以下載資料,
07:54
at least, in theory, it was much more efficient
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直接郵寄USB拇指碟的方式
07:57
to send the data on a little USB key by surface mail.
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還是比較有效率的
08:00
It might take a few days to get there,
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就算郵寄要多花幾天的時間
08:02
but at least it gets there in high definition
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但是寄到的內容可以有高解析度
08:05
and in a reliable quality.
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播放的品質 也可以比透過網路更穩定
08:07
So we made this box, and we tested it again
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於是我們做了這樣的盒子, 再次實驗
08:09
and again and again, and we're going through
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一次又一次的反覆進行
08:11
multiple iterations to do these things.
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持續的改進與實驗
08:12
But it's not limited to just education.
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這樣的方式與技巧
08:15
This kind of a technique or metrology
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除了用在教育
08:17
can actually be applied to other kinds of areas,
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也可以用在其他的地方
08:19
and I'm going to tell you one more little story.
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比如接下來我要講的另一個小故事
08:21
It's about this little device called a medi-meter.
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這是我們發展的一個 叫做 就醫篩檢儀 的小裝置
08:23
It's basically a little health care screening tool that we developed.
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可以用在健康照護的篩選作業中派上用場
08:27
In India, there is a context of these amazing people,
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在印度的健康照護體系裡,
08:30
the health care workers called ASHA workers.
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有一群特殊的叫做 ASHA 的工作者 (經認證的社會保健工作員)
08:32
They are essentially foot soldiers for the health care system
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她們是健康照護體系的主要戰力
08:35
who live in the local community and are trained
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居住在社區當地, 受過基本的訓練,
08:37
with basic tools and basic concepts of health care,
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了解健康照護的知識與基本工具
08:40
and the main purpose is basically to inform people
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她們的主要工作, 就是教育民眾
08:44
to basically, how to lead a better life, but also
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改善生活品質的做法, 並且提供
08:47
to divert or sort of make recommendations
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健康照護相關的指引與建議
08:50
of what kind of health care should they approach?
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例如: 該到什麼地方 看哪種科別的醫生
08:53
They are basically referral services, essentially.
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本質上算是一種健康照護的轉介服務.
08:56
But the problem with that is that we realized
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我們對於這個案子做了一些研究後,
08:58
after a bunch of research that they are amazing
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發現這些這些 ASHA 工作者 對於
09:02
at referring people to the nearest clinic
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轉介民眾到附近的診所 或是公立的健康照護機構
09:05
or the public health care system, but what happens at the
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做得非常好. 但是當民眾到了那裏才發現問題大了:
09:08
public health care system is this: these incredibly long lines
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轉介而來的民眾大排長龍,
09:12
and too many people who overload the system
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就診的民眾數量太多
09:14
simply because there's not enough doctors and facilities
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公立的健康照護機構 沒有足夠的醫生與設備
09:17
for the population that's being referred.
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來服務這些被轉介來的民眾.
09:19
So everything from a common cold
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不管是小感冒
09:21
to a serious case of malaria gets almost the same
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或是嚴重的病像是瘧疾, 都被一視同仁
09:24
level of attention, and there's no priorities.
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不分輕重緩急
09:27
So we said, "Come on, there's got to be a better way
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我們覺得, 這件事情
09:29
of doing this for sure."
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應該有更好的做法才對
09:31
So we said, "What can we do with the ASHA worker
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那我們應該可以做些什麼, 讓這些 ASHA工作者
09:34
that'll allow this ASHA worker to become an interesting filter,
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除了篩選出需要就診的民眾之外
09:37
but not just a filter, a really well thought through referral
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還能在轉介時更周延的考量
09:40
system that allows load balancing of the network,
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不至於讓健康照護的體系網絡超過負載
09:43
and directs patients to different sources of health care
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而且生病的民眾 也能依據病症與嚴重度
09:47
based on the severity or the criticalness of those situations?"
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被轉介到不同的適當的健康照護機構.
09:51
So the real key question was,
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其中最關鍵的
09:53
how do we empower this woman?
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就是要如何協助這些 ASHA工作者
09:55
How do we empower her with simple tools
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用簡單的工具
09:57
that's not diagnostic but more screening in nature
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還談不上診斷, 但是可以對病人進行篩檢,
10:00
so she at least knows how to advise the patients better?
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得到更多的資訊來提供病人更好的建議
10:04
And that'll make such a huge difference on the system,
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這樣應該可以讓整個系統的運作大大改善
10:06
because the amount of waiting time and the amount of
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要知道這些病人要排隊等很久,
10:11
distances that people need to travel, often sometimes
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而且也要走很久, 通常有 7 到15公里遠
10:12
seven to 15 kilometers, sometimes by foot,
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才能走到這些機構讓醫生看診
10:15
to get a simple health check done, is very, very detrimental
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而這也常常會讓民眾
10:21
in the sense that it really dissuades people
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不想花那麼大的力氣與時間
10:23
from getting access to health care.
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到健康照護機構就診
10:25
So if there was something that she could do,
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所以如果這些 ASHA 工作者 能有些檢測的工具
10:27
that would be amazing.
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對整件事情會有很大的幫助
10:28
So what we did was that we converted this device
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所以呢, 我們所發展的, 是把這個鬧鐘
10:31
into a medical device.
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改裝成一個 就醫篩檢儀
10:33
I want to demo this actually,
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我想現場操作給大家看
10:34
because it's a very simple process.
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因為用起來真的很簡單
10:37
Bruno, do you want to join us? (Cheers)
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Bruno, 請你過來幫忙好嗎?
10:39
Come along. (Applause)
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請過來這邊
10:46
So, what we're going to do is that
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我們現在要做的呢
10:49
we're going to measure a few basic parameters on you,
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是要量測你的一些基本數值
10:52
including your pulse rate and the amount of oxygen
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包括你的脈搏, 還有血氧濃度
10:54
that's there in your blood.
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(血液裡的氧氣含量)
10:56
So you're going to put your thumb on top of this.
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請把你的大拇指按在這上面
11:00
Bruno Giussani: Like this, works?
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Bruno: 像這樣嗎?
11:01
Vinay Venkatraman: Yeah. That's right. BG: Okay.
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講者: 對, 這樣就可以了. Bruno: 好了
11:03
VV: So I'm going to start it up. I hope it works.
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講者: 接著我要啟動這個裝置, 希望不會出錯...
11:07
(Beeps) It even beeps, because it's an alarm clock, after all.
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(嗶嗶聲) 這裝置也會嗶嗶叫, 沒錯, 它本來就是個鬧鐘
11:11
So ... (Laughter)
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(笑聲) 然後...
11:13
So I take it into the start position, and then
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我把它設定在起始的狀態, 然後
11:18
I press the read button. (Beeps)
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按下這個 量測 的按鈕 (嗶嗶聲)
11:21
So it's taking a little reading from you. (Beeps)
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就會開始量測你的數值 ... (嗶嗶聲)
11:27
And then the pointer goes and points to three different options.
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然後指針就會開始轉動, 可能停在三個不同的區域
11:30
Let's see what happens here.
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我們來看看...
11:33
(Beeps) Oh Bruno, you can go home, actually.
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(嗶嗶聲) 嗯, Bruno 你的健康沒問題, 可以回家了
11:35
BG: Great. Good news. (Applause)
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Bruno: 這真是好消息啊! (掌聲)
11:39
VV: So ... (Applause)
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(掌聲)
11:41
So the thing about this is that
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這個指針最後停下來的位置
11:44
if the pointer, unfortunately, had pointed to the red spot,
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如果不幸的是在紅色區域
11:48
we would have to rush you to a hospital.
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那就得趕快送你去醫院才行
11:50
Luckily, not today. And if it had pointed to the orange
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如果指到黃色區域
11:54
or the amber, it basically meant you had to have,
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那就要小心了, 最好能持續且經常的
11:57
sort of, more continuous care from the health care worker.
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由 ASHA 工作者來關注你的健康
12:00
So that was a very simple three-step screening process
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這個裝置是一個簡單的三等級的篩選工具
12:03
that could basically change the equation
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可以對健康照護工作的運作
12:05
of how public health care works in so many different ways.
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產生多方面的改變
12:08
BG: Thank you for the good news. VV: Yeah.
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Bruno: 感謝你帶來的好消息 講者: 嗯
12:09
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
12:14
So, very briefly, I'll just explain to you how this is done,
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我想大家會想知道這個裝置是怎麼改裝的
12:17
because that's the more interesting part.
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讓我簡單的說明一下
12:20
So essentially, the three things that are required
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總共需要三樣東西
12:22
to make this conversion from this guy to this guy
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把一個 鬧鐘 變成 就醫篩檢儀
12:27
is a cheap remote control for a television
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第一個是很便宜的電視遙控器
12:31
that you can almost find in every home today,
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現在幾乎每個人家裡都有
12:34
some parts from a computer mouse, basically,
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第二個是從電腦滑鼠拆出來的零件
12:38
something that you can scavenge for very low cost,
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這也可以從報廢品裡廢物利用, 也很省錢
12:41
and a few parts that have to be pre-programmed.
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第三個是可以預先載入程式的
12:44
Basically this is a micro-controller with a few
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一個微控制器晶片,
12:47
extra components that can be shipped for very little cost
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還有幾個到處都買得到的便宜的電子零件
12:49
across the world, and that's what is all required
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零件都齊全了
12:52
with a little bit of local tinkering talent
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加上工匠的巧手
12:55
to convert the device into something else.
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就可以把鬧鐘變身成不同的用途
12:58
So we are right now doing some systematic field tests
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目前我們正進行系統化的實地試用
13:01
to basically ascertain whether something like this actually
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希望知道這個裝置是否真的能
13:04
makes sense to the ASHA worker.
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對 ASHA 工作者 有幫助
13:06
We are going through some reference tests to compare it
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我們也會進行一些對照測試
13:09
against professional equipment to see if there's a degree
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來比較這個簡單裝置與專業的設備 在成效上
13:13
of change in efficacy and if it actually makes an impact
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有沒有程度的差異, 對於居民的生活有沒有影響
13:15
in people's lives. But most importantly,
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更重要的是
13:18
what we are trying to do right now
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我們接下來打算要做的
13:19
is we are trying to scale this up, because there
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是擴大使用的規模
13:22
are over 250,000 ASHA workers on the ground
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現在總共有 二十五萬個 ASHA 工作者
13:24
who are these amazing foot soldiers, and if we can
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在各地進行了不起的工作
13:27
give at least a fraction of them the access to these things,
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只要能讓一小部分的人能用上這種裝置
13:31
it just changes the way the economics of public health care
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就能改變公共健康照護的經濟運作方式,
13:34
works, and it changes the way systems actually function,
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改變整個體系的功能
13:37
not just on a systematic planning level,
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不僅僅只於系統規劃的層面
13:41
but also in a very grassroots, bottom-up level.
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而是從基層往上, 草根性的改變
13:44
So that's it, and we hope to do this in a big way.
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這是我們想做的, 而且我們希望能做大它.
13:47
Thank you. (Applause)
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謝謝大家 (掌聲)
13:50
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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