How sampling transformed music | Mark Ronson

翻译人员: Pat Lee 校对人员: Xiaoou Chen

I'm assuming everyone here has watched

我想在场的各位

a TED Talk online at one time or another, right?

都曾在网上看过 TED 演讲，对吧？

So what I'm going to do is play this.

所以，我接下来要播放一段音乐

This is the song from the TED Talks online.

这是 TED 演讲的开头音乐

(Music)

(( 音乐 ))

然后，我现在要放慢节奏

And I'm going to slow it down

because things sound cooler when they're slower.

因为放慢节奏听更酷

(( 音乐 ))

(Music)

Ken Robinson: Good morning. How are you?

肯 · 罗宾逊：早上好。你好吗？

Mark Applebaum: I'm going to -- Kate Stone: -- mix some music.

马克 · 阿波保：我准备 - - 凯特 · 史东： - - 混搭一些音乐

MA: I'm going to do so in a way that tells a story.

马克・阿波保：我将以说故事的方式进行

Tod Machover: Something nobody's ever heard before.

塔德・玛卡华：一些大家从未耳闻的故事

KS: I have a crossfader.

凯特・史东：我有一台混音应用器

Julian Treasure: I call this the mixer.

朱利安・崔吉：我称它混搭神器

KS: Two D.J. decks.

凯特・史东：DJ 的两块板

Chris Anderson: You turn up the dials, the wheel starts to turn.

克里斯．安德森： 你打开转盘，然後轮盘开始旋转

Dan Ellsey: I have always loved music.

丹．艾尔西：我一直热爱音乐

Michael Tilson Thomas: Is it a melody or a rhythm or a mood or an attitude?

麦可．汤玛斯： 这是旋律还是节奏，这是心情还是态度？

Daniel Wolpert: Feeling everything that's going on inside my body.

丹尼尔．沃尔波特： 感觉活跃於我体内的一切

Adam Ockelford: In your brain is this amazing musical computer.

雅丹．奥克福：在你大脑里， 这简直就是一台不可思议的音乐电脑

MTT: Using computers and synthesizers to create works. It's a language that's still evolving.

麦可．汤玛斯：利用电脑，以及合成器来创作。 这是种仍不断进化的语言

And the 21st century.

而且，在二十一世纪

KR: Turn on the radio. Pop into the discotheque.

肯．罗宾森：开启收音机，去夜店串门子

You will know what this person is doing: moving to the music.

你就会知道这个人在干什麽：接近音乐

Mark Ronson: This is my favorite part.

马克・荣森：这是我最爱的部分

MA: You gotta have doorstops. That's important.

马克・阿波保：我就得有门垫。这相当要紧。

TM: We all love music a great deal.

塔德．马家华：我们都热爱音乐。

MTT: Anthems, dance crazes, ballads and marches.

麦可．汤玛斯：颂歌丶舞曲丶民歌丶进行曲

Kirby Ferguson and JT: The remix: It is new music created from old music.

克比．福吉森 / 朱利安．崔吉： 混搭曲，这是用旧歌曲创造的新音乐

Ryan Holladay: Blend seamlessly.

莱恩．何拉迪：完美混搭

Kathryn Schulz: And that's how it goes.

凯瑟琳．舒兹：而这就是混搭

MTT: What happens when the music stops?

麦可・汤玛斯：当音乐停止时，会怎麽样？

KS: Yay!

凯瑟琳・舒兹：耶～

(Applause)

(( 掌声 ))

MR: Obviously, I've been watching a lot of TED Talks.

看得出来，我看了很多 TED 演讲

When I was first asked to speak at TED,

当 TED 邀请我来演讲时，

I wasn't quite sure what my angle was, at first,

我一开始不确定该说什麽，

so yeah, I immediately started watching tons of TED Talks,

所以没错，我立马开始观看一大堆的 TED 演讲

which is pretty much absolutely

基本上，这个方法

the worst thing that you can do

是全世界最傻逼的方法之一

because you start to go into panic mode, thinking,

因为你开始吓自己，不断地想

I haven't mounted a successful expedition to the North Pole yet.

我还没成功跑去北极探索过，

Neither have I provided electricity

我也没动过大脑

为我的家乡提供电力

to my village through sheer ingenuity.

In fact, I've pretty much wasted most of my life

事实上，我将人生的大部分时间

DJing in night clubs

都几乎浪费在夜店里做 DJ

and producing pop records.

以及，录制流行音乐专辑

But I still kept watching the videos,

但我仍锲而不舍地，观看这些视频，

because I'm a masochist,

因为，我就是一个受虐狂

and eventually, things like Michael Tilson Thomas

而且到後来，像麦可・提尔森・汤玛斯

and Tod Machover, and seeing

塔德・马家华这样的人物，

their visceral passion talking about music,

看着他们满腔热情地谈论音乐，

it definitely stirred something in me,

肯定在我内心深处激起了一些想法，

and I'm a sucker for anyone talking devotedly

我对於满腔热血谈论音乐力量的人

about the power of music.

实在毫无招架之力

And I started to write down on these little note cards

我开始在这些小小的便签纸上写下

every time I heard something

每次我所听到的东西

that struck a chord in me, pardon the pun,

敲动我的心弦，原谅我的双关语

or something that I thought I could use,

或者，一些我想尝试的灵感

and pretty soon, my studio looked like this,

很快地，我的工作室就变成这样

kind of like a John Nash, "Beautiful Mind" vibe.

有点像约翰・纳许，『 美丽心灵 』的感觉。

The other good thing about watching TED Talks,

观看 TED 演讲的另外一个好处是

when you see a really good one,

当你看到一个很棒的演讲时，

you kind of all of a sudden wish the speaker

你忽然会很希望这位演讲者就是

was your best friend, don't you? Like, just for a day.

你的哥们儿，对吧？当一天好友也好

They seem like a nice person.

他们感觉上是很亲切的人

You'd take a bike ride, maybe share an ice cream.

你们会一起骑单车，或共享一份冰淇淋

You'd certainly learn a lot.

你绝对会从中受益不少

And every now and then they'd chide you,

然後时不时，他们就会斥骂你

when they got frustrated that you couldn't really

因为他们觉得很挫败，因为我们不太理解

keep up with half of the technical things they're banging on about all the time.

他们时不时所分享的行家术语

But then they'd remember that you're but a mere human

但他们会记起，你不过是凡人一名

of ordinary, mortal intelligence

普通平凡丶智力平平

that didn't finish university,

连大学都没有读完

and they'd kind of forgive you,

然後，他们就原谅了你

and pet you like the dog.

然後就拍拍你，像安抚狗狗一样

(Laughter)

(( 笑声 ))

Man, yeah, back to the real world,

天哪，没错。回到现实世界

probably Sir Ken Robinson and I

也许肯．罗宾森爵士和我

are not going to end up being best of friends.

最终不会成为死党

He lives all the way in L.A. and I imagine is quite busy,

他住在遥远的洛杉矶， 我想他非常忙碌

but through the tools available to me -- technology

但透过我可利用的工具：科技

and the innate way that I approach making music --

以及，我与生俱来的制作音乐的方式 - -

I can sort of bully our existences

某种程度上，我可以将我们的存在

into a shared event,

融入一个我们共享的事件中，

which is sort of what you saw.

也就是大家刚刚所看到的

I can hear something that I love in a piece of media

我可以从我喜欢的媒体作品中听出些东西

and I can co-opt it

然後，我可以从中拣选

and insert myself in that narrative,

将我自己置入到那个叙事声音中

or alter it, even.

或者，甚至可以作出改变

In a nutshell, that's what I was trying to do

简单来说，这就是我一直尝试

with these things, but more importantly,

利用这些东西来创作，但更重要的是

that's what the past 30 years of music has been.

这也是过去三十年来，音乐的样貌

That's the major thread.

这就是主流

See, 30 years ago, you had the first digital samplers,

三十年前，出现了第一台数位合成器

and they changed everything overnight.

一夜之间，全变了

All of a sudden, artists could sample

忽然间，艺术家可以从以前的

from anything and everything that came before them,

任何作品中提取样本

from a snare drum from the Funky Meters,

譬如：骤停打击乐的小军鼓

to a Ron Carter bassline,

荣恩・卡特的大提琴曲

the theme to "The Price Is Right."

『 价格竞猜 』节目的主题曲，等等

Albums like De La Soul's "3 Feet High and Rising"

各个专辑，例如迪拉索的『上升至三英尺高 』

and the Beastie Boys' "Paul's Boutique"

野兽男孩的『 保罗潮店』

looted from decades of recorded music

抢掠几十年内，所记录下来的音乐

to create these sonic, layered masterpieces

用来创造这些分层声波杰作

that were basically the Sgt. Peppers of their day.

这简直就是他们 当时的「比伯军曹」（披头四专辑）

And they weren't sampling these records

他们当时从这些音乐中取样，

because they were too lazy to write their own music.

并不是因为他们懒得去写自己的音乐

They weren't sampling these records to cash in on

他们从这些音乐中取样，

the familiarity of the original stuff.

也不是为了占原创者的便宜

To be honest, it was all about sampling

老实说，这完全这是为了

really obscure things,

撷取一些相当隐晦的东西，

except for a few obvious exceptions

除了一些鲜明的例子，

like Vanilla Ice and "doo doo doo da da doo doo"

譬如说香草冰和「嘟嘟嘟搭搭嘟嘟」，

that we know about.

大家都知道

But the thing is,

但重点是

they were sampling those records

这批人之所以从那些音乐中取样

because they heard something in that music

因为，他们从那些音乐中听到了

that spoke to them

一些触动他们的东西

that they instantly wanted to inject themselves

让他们立马就想将自己

into the narrative of that music.

注入到那些音乐的诠释当中

They heard it, they wanted to be a part of it,

他们听到了，他们想融入其中

and all of a sudden they found themselves

然後霎时间，他们发现

in possession of the technology to do so,

自己就拥有那样做的技术

not much unlike the way the Delta blues

就好像「三角洲蓝调」那样

struck a chord with the Stones and the Beatles and Clapton,

突然激起滚石乐队丶披头四和克莱普顿的心弦

and they felt the need to co-opt that music

然後，他们直觉需要用他们当时的工具

for the tools of their day.

一起编撰那首歌曲

You know, in music we take something that we love

在音乐界，我们捡起我们喜欢的东西

and we build on it.

我们就会亲手改造它

I'd like to play a song for you.

我想为大家播一首歌

(( 音乐：道格．佛莱许 与 Slick Rick 的 La Di Da Di ))

(Music: "La Di Da Di" by Doug E. Fresh & Slick Rick)

That's "La Di Da Di" and it's the fifth-most sampled

这首歌叫 『 La Di Da Di 』

当时排名第五，最多人采样的音乐

song of all time.

It's been sampled 547 times.

这首歌已经被取样 547 次

It was made in 1984 by these two legends of hip-hop,

这首歌是在 1984 年 由两位嘻哈传奇人物打造：

Slick Rick and Doug E. Fresh,

Slick Rick 和 道格・佛莱许

and the Ray-Ban and Jheri curl look is so strong.

墨镜和稀拉卷发形象非常抢眼

I do hope that comes back soon.

我真希望这个风格会再次流行

Anyway, this predated the sampling era.

不管怎样，这是发生在音乐采样的年代之前

There were no samples in this record,

在这张专辑没有任何取样混搭

although I did look up on the Internet last night,

尽管，我昨晚的确在网上搜了一下

I mean several months ago,

我是说几个月前，

that "La Di Da Di" means, it's an old

『 La Di Da Di 』 来自於

Cockney expression from the late 1800s in England,

十八世纪晚期，英格兰地区的一种伦敦方言

so maybe a remix with Mrs. Patmore

之後的《唐顿庄园》说不定会出现

from "Downton Abbey" coming soon,

派特摩太太的混搭音乐，

or that's for another day.

或者，我们改天再谈这个

Doug E. Fresh was the human beat box.

道格・佛莱许是人肉电子节奏鼓，

Slick Rick is the voice you hear on the record,

而 Slick Rick 就是你在唱片上听到的那声音，

and because of Slick Rick's sing-songy,

也正因为 Slick Rick 的动人歌喉

超级诱人的声线，这首歌为日後的流行音乐

super-catchy vocals, it provides endless sound bites

and samples for future pop records.

提供了无限丶可取的原声和音乐样本

That was 1984.

那是 1984 的情况

This is me in 1984, in case you were wondering

这是我 1984 年的样子，如果你在想

how I was doing, thank you for asking.

我当时混得怎样，感谢您的关心

It's Throwback Thursday already.

这好像怀旧星期四

I was involved in a heavy love affair

当时我无可救药地

with the music of Duran Duran,

深深地爱上了杜兰杜兰的音乐，

as you can probably tell from my outfit.

你多少可以从我的穿着端倪出

I was in the middle.

我站在中间

And the simplest way that I knew

当时我头脑简单，

how to co-opt myself into that experience

想让自己以某种形式融入那首歌

of wanting to be in that song somehow

我想到的最简单的方法

was to just get a band together of fellow nine-year-olds

就是和一群同样九岁大的人组团

and play "Wild Boys" at the school talent show.

在学校的表演秀上，扮成「狂野男孩」

So that's what we did, and long story short,

反正那些年我们做了这些事，长话短说

we were booed off the stage,

我们被轰下台

and if you ever have a chance to live your life

如果你有那麽一个机会，好好享受人生

escaping hearing the sound of an auditorium

不用在大礼堂上受罪

full of second- and third-graders booing,

忍受2丶3年级学生，在台下发出嘘声

I would highly recommend it. It's not really fun.

我会建议你好好享受人生，那一点都不好玩，

But it didn't really matter,

这也不算啥大事，

because what I wanted somehow

因为当时我想要的

是參與到那首歌的历史里，虽然仅短短一分钟

was to just be in the history of that song for a minute.

I didn't care who liked it.

我并不在乎谁喜欢这首歌

I just loved it, and I thought I could put myself in there.

我就是爱这首歌，我就想成为这首歌的一部分

Over the next 10 years, "La Di Da Di"

在接下来的十年里，La Di Da Di

continues to be sampled by countless records,

一直被无数的音乐专辑取样，

ending up on massive hits like "Here Comes the Hotstepper"

摇身一变成为大众狂潮， 例如： Here Comes the Hotstepper

and "I Wanna Sex You Up."

还有 I Wanna Sex You Up

Snoop Doggy Dogg covers this song

史努比狗狗把这首歌

on his debut album "Doggystyle" and calls it "Lodi Dodi."

收录到他的首张专辑「狗狗风格」里， 把它称之为 Lodi Dodi

Copyright lawyers are having a field day at this point.

版权律师当时可是天天吵架

And then you fast forward to 1997,

然後，你快速进入 1997 年

and the Notorious B.I.G., or Biggie,

当时 Notorious B.I.G. 或者 Biggie

reinterprets "La Di Da Di"

在他最热门的「催眠术」中

on his number one hit called "Hypnotize,"

重新演绎了 La Di Da Di

which I will play a little bit of

我将会播放这首歌的其中一段，

and I will play you a little bit of the Slick Rick

我也会播放 Slick Rick 的其中一段，

to show you where they got it from.

让大家听听他们的灵感从哪来

(Music: "Hypnotize" by The Notorious B.I.G.)

(( 音乐：The Notorious B.I.G. 的「催眠术」))

So Biggie was killed

Biggie 後来被谋杀了

在这首歌成为冠军曲的前几周，

weeks before that song made it to number one,

in one of the great tragedies of the hip-hop era,

这也是嘻哈时代的悲剧之一，

but he would have been 13 years old

La Di Da Di 推出时，

他应该是 13 岁，活力十足

and very much alive when "La Di Da Di" first came out,

and as a young boy

身为一名青少年，

growing up in Brooklyn,

在布鲁克林长大

it's hard not to think that that song probably held

很难不去想像，那首歌曲搞不好

some fond memories for him.

对他而言，有说不完的美好回忆

But the way he interpreted it, as you hear,

但他演绎这首歌的方式，正如你所听到

is completely his own.

完全就是他的个人风格

He flips it, makes it,

他重新量身订作这首歌曲

there's nothing pastiche whatsoever about it.

这首歌不是东拼西凑的二手货

It's thoroughly modern Biggie.

这完全是现代版的 Biggie 作品

I had to make that joke in this room,

我不得不在这里讲这个笑话，

because you would be the only people that I'd ever have a chance of getting it.

因为你们大概是唯一有机会听懂的人

And so, it's a groaner. (Laughter)

好吧，这是我的无奈。（笑声）

Elsewhere in the pop and rap world,

在流行音乐和饶舌音乐的世界里，

we're going a little bit sample-crazy.

我们开始变成混搭迷

We're getting away from the obscure samples that we were doing,

我们开始远离一直在做的隐晦取样混搭，

and all of a sudden everyone's taking

然後霎时间，大家都开始采用

these massive '80s tunes like Bowie, "Let's Dance,"

这些80年代大众曲调，例如鲍伊的「一起跳吧」

and all these disco records, and just rapping on them.

还有所有的迪斯科音乐，用饶舌方式唱

These records don't really age that well.

这些音乐不太会过时

You don't hear them now, because they borrowed

现在，大家都不再听这类音乐了

from an era that was too steeped

因为都从另一个年代借来的，

in its own connotation.

充满了各种的自身隐喻

You can't just hijack nostalgia wholesale.

你无法任意抢劫，怀旧，然後批发

It leaves the listener feeling sickly.

这样会让听众受不了

You have to take an element of those things

你必须从这些歌里面提取一个元素

and then bring something fresh and new to it,

然後，把一些新鲜的东西带进去

which was something that I learned

这也是我之前学来的东西

when I was working with the late,

我当时和还在世，

amazing Amy Winehouse

非常优秀的艾美．怀丝合作

on her album "Back to Black."

创作她的专辑《黑色会》

A lot of fuss was made about the sonic of the album

当时，为了这个专辑的音波

that myself and Salaam Remi, the other producer,

我和另一位制作人萨朗．雷米，难免有争吵

achieved, how we captured this long-lost sound,

争论我们怎样捕捉这遗失很久的声音，

but without the very, very 21st-century personality

要是没有 21 世纪现代个性和魔力，

and firebrand that was Amy Winehouse

艾美．怀丝关於戒毒所和

and her lyrics about rehab and Roger Moore

罗杰．摩尔的歌词就做不到，

and even a mention of Slick Rick,

还有Slick Rick的元素，

the whole thing would have run the risk

这个东西就会岌岌可危，

of being very pastiche, to be honest.

老实说，有可能会变成一团糟

Imagine any other singer from that era over it

要是随意从那个时代找一个歌手

singing the same old lyrics.

重新演唱同样的旧歌词

It runs a risk of being completely bland.

这有可能会被认为极度无聊

I mean, there was no doubt that Amy

我是说，毫无疑问

and I and Salaam all had this love

艾美丶我还有萨朗都同样热爱

for this gospel, soul and blues and jazz

这样的信念丶灵魂丶蓝调和爵士乐

that was evident listening to the musical arrangements.

你听听音乐的改编，就会发现

She brought the ingredients that made it urgent

她带进了一些元素，

and of the time.

使歌曲更加冲击丶更具时代意味

So if we come all the way up to the present day now,

所以，假如我们纵观历史

the cultural tour de force that is Miley Cyrus,

其中的文化代表作属於：『麦莉 · 赛勒斯』

she reinterprets "La Di Da Di"

她为她的世代

completely for her generation,

重新演绎了 La Di Da Di，

and we'll take a listen to the Slick Rick part

我们会先听一段 Slick Rick，

and then see how she sort of flipped it.

然後在看看她，如何改编这首歌

(( 音乐: Slick Rick & 道格．佛莱许的 "La Di Da Di" ))

(Music: "La Di Da Di" by Slick Rick & Doug E. Fresh)

(( 音乐: 麦莉·赛勒斯的 "We Can't Stop" ))

(Music: "We Can't Stop" by Miley Cyrus)

So Miley Cyrus,

所以，麦莉 · 赛勒斯

who wasn't even born yet when "La Di Da Di" was made,

在 La Di Da Di 推出时，她还没出生

and neither were any of the co-writers on the song,

她那首歌的作曲人一个也未出世，

has found this song that somehow

这印证这首歌某程度上

etched its way into the collective consciousness of pop music,

已经在流行音乐的集体回忆中 刻下了它的印记

and now, with its timeless playfulness of the original,

时至今日，这首歌原作具有一种超时空玩味

has kind of translated to a whole new generation

并且，某程度上给新生代创造了全新演绎

who will probably co-opt it as their own.

让新生代自由选择改编

Since the dawn of the sampling era,

迄音乐取样混搭的时代起

there's been endless debate

就有过无数的争论，

about the validity of music that contains samples.

关於采样的音乐是否为音乐

You know, the Grammy committee says that

大家知道，葛莱美奖委员会说

if your song contains some kind of pre-written

如果你的歌包含一些之前写过的音乐

or pre-existing music,

或先前已发表过的音乐，

you're ineligible for song of the year.

那就不符合歌曲提名的资格

Rockists, who are racist

摇滚乐歧视者

but only about rock music,

是仅歧视摇滚音乐的人，

constantly use the argument to —

不断使用一个论点来 - -

That's a real word. That is a real word.

真的有这个单字啦

They constantly use the argument to devalue rap

他们不断使用一个论点来

and modern pop,

贬低说唱和现代流行音乐，

and these arguments completely miss the point,

而这些论点已经毫无杀伤力，

because the dam has burst.

因为，已经覆水难收

We live in the post-sampling era.

我们生活在後混搭采样的年代

We take the things that we love

我们撷取喜欢的东西，

and we build on them.

然後，我们改造它们

That's just how it goes.

这就是我们创作的方式

And when we really add something significant and original

当我们真正地添加 一些重要原创的东西，

and we merge our musical journey with this,

把我们的音乐历程与此相结合，

then we have a chance to be

然後，我们有机会

a part of the evolution of that music that we love

成为我们所热爱的音乐进化历程之一，

and be linked with it once it becomes something new again.

并且，等到这再次成为新的东西， 我们就与此产生联系。

So I would like to do one more piece

所以，我想再播一首歌

that I put together for you tonight,

这是我今晚为各位准备的，

and it takes place with two

这首歌的内容，来自我目前看过

pretty inspiring TED performances that I've seen.

两个很有新意的 TED 表演

One of them is the piano player Derek Paravicini,

其中一个是钢琴演奏家德：瑞克・帕拉文西尼

who happens to be a blind,

他是一位盲人

autistic genius at the piano,

身患孤独症的钢琴天才

and Emmanuel Jal, who is an ex-child soldier

另外一位是阿曼纽・加尔

from the South Sudan,

他曾是苏丹南部的童兵

who is a spoken word poet and rapper.

他是口说艺术诗人和饶舌歌手

And once again I found a way to annoyingly

而且，我再次找到了一种方式

me-me-me myself into the musical history

来不厌其烦地

of these songs,

将自己挤进这些音乐的历史

but I can't help it,

我就是忍不住这样做，

because they're these things that I love,

因为，这就是我热爱的东西

and I want to mess around with them.

我想与这些东西打交道

So I hope you enjoy this. Here we go.

所以，我希望大家喜欢。我们开始吧。

Let's hear that TED sound again, right?

我们再来听听 TED 的声音，好吧？

(Music)

(( 音乐 ))

Thank you very much. Thank you.

非常感谢，谢谢！

(Applause)

(( 掌声 ))