How sampling transformed music | Mark Ronson

譯者: 杏儀 歐陽 審譯者: Becky Ma

I'm assuming everyone here has watched

我想在場各位

a TED Talk online at one time or another, right?

都曾經在網上看過 TED 演講，是吧？

So what I'm going to do is play this.

接下來我要播放一段音樂。

This is the song from the TED Talks online.

這是 TED 演講的開頭音樂。

(Music)

（音樂）

And I'm going to slow it down

然後我要放慢節奏

because things sound cooler when they're slower.

因為用慢節奏聽更酷。

(Music)

（音樂）

Ken Robinson: Good morning. How are you?

肯．羅賓森：早安，大家好。

Mark Applebaum: I'm going to -- Kate Stone: -- mix some music.

馬克．阿波保：我要—— 凱特．史東：——混搭音樂。

MA: I'm going to do so in a way that tells a story.

馬克．阿波保：我要以敘述故事的方式進行。

Tod Machover: Something nobody's ever heard before.

塔德．馬家華：這是大家前所未聞的東西。

KS: I have a crossfader.

凱特．史東：我有台唱片平滑轉換器。

Julian Treasure: I call this the mixer.

朱利安．崔吉：我稱之為混搭神器。

KS: Two D.J. decks.

凱特．史東：DJ 的兩塊板。

Chris Anderson: You turn up the dials, the wheel starts to turn.

克里斯．安德森： 你打開轉盤，然後輪盤開始轉動。

Dan Ellsey: I have always loved music.

丹．艾爾西：我一直熱愛音樂。

Michael Tilson Thomas: Is it a melody or a rhythm or a mood or an attitude?

麥可．湯瑪斯： 這是旋律還是節奏，這是心情還是態度？

Daniel Wolpert: Feeling everything that's going on inside my body.

丹尼爾．沃爾波特： 感覺活躍於我體內的一切。

Adam Ockelford: In your brain is this amazing musical computer.

雅丹．奧克福：在你大腦裡， 這簡直就是一台不可思議的音樂電腦。

MTT: Using computers and synthesizers to create works. It's a language that's still evolving.

麥可．湯瑪斯：利用電腦和合成器來創作。 這是種仍不斷進化的語言。

And the 21st century.

而且在二十一世紀。

KR: Turn on the radio. Pop into the discotheque.

肯．羅賓森：打開收音機，跑跑夜店。

You will know what this person is doing: moving to the music.

你就會知道這個人在幹什麼：接近音樂。

Mark Ronson: This is my favorite part.

馬克．榮森：這是我最喜愛的部分。

MA: You gotta have doorstops. That's important.

馬克．阿波保：我就得有門墊。這相當要緊。

TM: We all love music a great deal.

塔德．馬家華：我們都熱愛音樂。

MTT: Anthems, dance crazes, ballads and marches.

麥可．湯瑪斯：頌歌、舞曲、民歌、進行曲。

Kirby Ferguson and JT: The remix: It is new music created from old music.

克比．福吉森和朱利安．崔吉： 混搭曲，這是用舊歌曲創造的新音樂。

Ryan Holladay: Blend seamlessly.

萊恩．何拉迪：無縫混搭，

Kathryn Schulz: And that's how it goes.

凱瑟琳．舒茲：而這就是混搭。

MTT: What happens when the music stops?

麥可．湯瑪斯：音樂停止時會怎麼樣？

KS: Yay!

凱瑟琳 ．舒茲：耶！

(Applause)

（掌聲）

MR: Obviously, I've been watching a lot of TED Talks.

看得出來我看了很多 TED 演講。

When I was first asked to speak at TED,

我剛被邀請到 TED 演講時，

I wasn't quite sure what my angle was, at first,

一開始我不確定要說什麼，

so yeah, I immediately started watching tons of TED Talks,

所以沒錯，我立馬開始觀看一大堆的 TED 演講，

which is pretty much absolutely

這個做法絕對是

the worst thing that you can do

你力所能及最最糟糕的事情，

because you start to go into panic mode, thinking,

因為你開始進入恐慌狀態，不斷地想

I haven't mounted a successful expedition to the North Pole yet.

我沒有成功地到北極探索。

Neither have I provided electricity

我亦從未單憑我的智慧

to my village through sheer ingenuity.

為我的村莊提供電力。

In fact, I've pretty much wasted most of my life

老實說，我將人生的大部分時間

DJing in night clubs

浪費在夜總會裡做 DJ

and producing pop records.

和製作流行音樂唱片。

But I still kept watching the videos,

但是我還是鍥而不捨地觀看這些視頻，

because I'm a masochist,

因為我就是一個受虐狂，

and eventually, things like Michael Tilson Thomas

而且到了最後，像麥可．提爾森．湯瑪斯、

and Tod Machover, and seeing

塔德．馬家華這樣的人物，

看著他們滿腔熱情地談論音樂，

their visceral passion talking about music,

it definitely stirred something in me,

這絕對在我內心深處激起了一些想法，

and I'm a sucker for anyone talking devotedly

我對於滿腔熱血談論音樂力量的人

about the power of music.

實在毫無招架之力。

And I started to write down on these little note cards

我開始在這些小小的便簽紙上寫下

every time I heard something

我每次聽到的什麼東西

that struck a chord in me, pardon the pun,

敲動我的心弦，原諒我的雙關語，

or something that I thought I could use,

或者我一想到我可以用的什麼東西，

and pretty soon, my studio looked like this,

很快，我的工作室就變成了這樣，

kind of like a John Nash, "Beautiful Mind" vibe.

有點像約翰．納許《 美麗心靈》的感覺。

The other good thing about watching TED Talks,

觀看 TED 演講的另外一個好處是

when you see a really good one,

當你看到一個相當了不起的演講時，

you kind of all of a sudden wish the speaker

你就突然忍不住希望這位演講者

was your best friend, don't you? Like, just for a day.

就是你的死黨，是不是？就一天也好。

They seem like a nice person.

他們看起來像很親切的人，

You'd take a bike ride, maybe share an ice cream.

你們一起騎單車，或者分享一份冰淇淋，

You'd certainly learn a lot.

你絕對會從中受益不少。

And every now and then they'd chide you,

然後時不時他們就會斥罵你，

when they got frustrated that you couldn't really

因為他們覺得很挫敗，

keep up with half of the technical things they're banging on about all the time.

因為你不是很懂 他們一直甩出來的技術行話。

But then they'd remember that you're but a mere human

但是他們會記起你不過是凡人一名，

of ordinary, mortal intelligence

普通平凡、智力平平，

that didn't finish university,

連大學都沒有讀完，

and they'd kind of forgive you,

然後他們就原諒了你

and pet you like the dog.

然後就拍拍你，就像安撫小狗一樣。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Man, yeah, back to the real world,

天哪，沒錯，回到真實世界，

probably Sir Ken Robinson and I

也許肯．羅賓森爵士和我

are not going to end up being best of friends.

最終不會成為死黨。

He lives all the way in L.A. and I imagine is quite busy,

他住在遙遠的洛杉磯， 我想他是非常忙碌的，

but through the tools available to me -- technology

但是通過我可以控制的工具——科技

and the innate way that I approach making music --

以及我與生俱來的製作音樂的方式——

I can sort of bully our existences

某程度上我可以將我們的存在

into a shared event,

融入一個我們共享的事件中，

which is sort of what you saw.

也就是大家剛剛看見的那些。

I can hear something that I love in a piece of media

我可以從我喜歡的媒體作品中聽出些東西

and I can co-opt it

然後我可以挑選出來

and insert myself in that narrative,

將我自己插入到那個敘事聲音中

or alter it, even.

或者甚至可以作出改變。

In a nutshell, that's what I was trying to do

簡單來說，這就是我一直嘗試 利用這些東西所做的事情

with these things, but more importantly,

但更為重要的是，

that's what the past 30 years of music has been.

這也是過去三十年來音樂的樣貌。

That's the major thread.

這就是主線。

See, 30 years ago, you had the first digital samplers,

三十年前出現了第一台數位合成器，

and they changed everything overnight.

一夜間改變一切。

All of a sudden, artists could sample

霎時間，藝術家可以從以前的

from anything and everything that came before them,

任何作品中提取樣本，

from a snare drum from the Funky Meters,

譬如，時髦米特的小軍鼓、

to a Ron Carter bassline,

榮恩．卡特的大提琴曲、

the theme to "The Price Is Right."

『價格競猜』節目的主題曲等。

Albums like De La Soul's "3 Feet High and Rising"

各個專輯，例如迪拉索的「三尺高還要更高」、

and the Beastie Boys' "Paul's Boutique"

野獸男孩的「保羅潮店」、

looted from decades of recorded music

搶掠幾十年內記錄下來的音樂，

to create these sonic, layered masterpieces

用來創造這些分層聲波傑作，

that were basically the Sgt. Peppers of their day.

這簡直就是他們 當時的「比伯軍曹」（披頭四專輯）。

And they weren't sampling these records

他們當時從這些音樂中取樣，

because they were too lazy to write their own music.

並不是因為他們懶得去寫自己的音樂。

They weren't sampling these records to cash in on

他們從這些音樂中取樣

the familiarity of the original stuff.

並不是為了從原作中賺個耳熟。

To be honest, it was all about sampling

老實說，這完全這是為了

really obscure things,

提取一些相當隱晦的東西，

except for a few obvious exceptions

一些相當明顯的例子除外，

like Vanilla Ice and "doo doo doo da da doo doo"

譬如說香草冰和「嘟嘟嘟搭搭嘟嘟」，

that we know about.

大家都知道。

But the thing is,

但重點是

they were sampling those records

這批人之所以從那些音樂中取樣

because they heard something in that music

是因為他們從那些音樂中聽到了

that spoke to them

一些觸動他們的東西，

that they instantly wanted to inject themselves

讓他們立馬就想將自己

into the narrative of that music.

注入到那些音樂的敘述當中。

They heard it, they wanted to be a part of it,

他們聽到了，他們想融入其中

and all of a sudden they found themselves

然後霎時間，他們發現

in possession of the technology to do so,

自己擁有那樣做的技術，

not much unlike the way the Delta blues

就好像「三角洲藍調」那樣

struck a chord with the Stones and the Beatles and Clapton,

突然激起滾石樂隊、披頭四和克萊普頓的心弦，

and they felt the need to co-opt that music

然後他們就直覺需要用他們當時的工具

for the tools of their day.

一起編撰那首歌曲。

You know, in music we take something that we love

在音樂界我們撿起我們喜歡的東西

and we build on it.

就馬上動手在上面進行改造。

I'd like to play a song for you.

我想為大家播一首歌。

(Music: "La Di Da Di" by Doug E. Fresh & Slick Rick)

（音樂：道格．佛萊許與 Slick Rick 的 "La Di Da Di"）

That's "La Di Da Di" and it's the fifth-most sampled

這首歌叫 "La Di Da Di"

在當時最多人選取的歌曲中排名第五。

song of all time.

It's been sampled 547 times.

這首歌已經被取樣 547 次。

It was made in 1984 by these two legends of hip-hop,

這首歌是在 1984 年 由兩位嘻哈傳奇人物創造：

Slick Rick and Doug E. Fresh,

Slick Rick 和道格．佛萊許，

and the Ray-Ban and Jheri curl look is so strong.

墨鏡和稀拉卷髮形象相當出眾。

I do hope that comes back soon.

我真心希望這個風格會再次流行。

Anyway, this predated the sampling era.

不管怎樣，這是發生在音樂取樣時代之前。

There were no samples in this record,

在這張唱片中並無任何取樣混搭，

although I did look up on the Internet last night,

儘管我昨晚的確在網上搜了一下，

I mean several months ago,

我是說幾個月前，

that "La Di Da Di" means, it's an old

"La Di Da Di" 來自於

Cockney expression from the late 1800s in England,

十八世紀晚期英格蘭地區的一種倫敦方言。

so maybe a remix with Mrs. Patmore

之後的《唐頓莊園》說不定會出現

from "Downton Abbey" coming soon,

派特摩太太的混搭音樂，

or that's for another day.

或者我們改天再談這個。

Doug E. Fresh was the human beat box.

道格．佛萊許是人肉電子節奏鼓，

Slick Rick is the voice you hear on the record,

而 Slick Rick 就是你在唱片上聽到的那聲音，

and because of Slick Rick's sing-songy,

正因為 Slick Rick 美麗動人的歌喉、

super-catchy vocals, it provides endless sound bites

超級誘人的聲帶，這首歌為日後的流行音樂

and samples for future pop records.

提供了無限、可取的原聲和音樂樣本。

That was 1984.

那是 1984 的情況。

This is me in 1984, in case you were wondering

這是我 1984年的樣子，如果你在想

how I was doing, thank you for asking.

我那時混得怎樣，謝謝關心。

It's Throwback Thursday already.

這好像懷舊星期四。

I was involved in a heavy love affair

當時我不可救藥地

with the music of Duran Duran,

深深愛上了杜蘭杜蘭的音樂，

as you can probably tell from my outfit.

這大概你也可以從我的穿著上看出來。

I was in the middle.

我站在中間。

And the simplest way that I knew

當時我頭腦簡單，

how to co-opt myself into that experience

想讓自己以某種方式融入那首歌，

of wanting to be in that song somehow

我想到的最簡單的方法

was to just get a band together of fellow nine-year-olds

就是跟一群九歲大的同齡人組隊，

and play "Wild Boys" at the school talent show.

一起在學校的表演秀上扮「狂野男孩」。

So that's what we did, and long story short,

這就是我們當時的日子，長話短說，

we were booed off the stage,

我們被轟下台了，

and if you ever have a chance to live your life

如果你有那麼一個機會好好活著，

escaping hearing the sound of an auditorium

不用在大禮堂上遭罪

full of second- and third-graders booing,

忍受二、三年級學生在台下發出的噓聲，

I would highly recommend it. It's not really fun.

我會極度建議你好好活著。那一點都不好玩。

But it didn't really matter,

但這沒多大關係，

because what I wanted somehow

因為當時我想要的

was to just be in the history of that song for a minute.

就是加入到那首歌的歷史中，雖然只是短短一分鐘。

I didn't care who liked it.

我不在乎誰喜歡這首歌。

I just loved it, and I thought I could put myself in there.

我就是愛這首歌，我只想將自己放入歌中。

Over the next 10 years, "La Di Da Di"

在接下來的十年裡，La Di Da Di

continues to be sampled by countless records,

一直被無數的音樂專輯取樣，

ending up on massive hits like "Here Comes the Hotstepper"

搖身一變成為大眾狂潮， 例如 Here Comes the Hotstepper

and "I Wanna Sex You Up."

還有 I Wanna Sex You Up。

Snoop Doggy Dogg covers this song

史努比狗狗把這首歌

on his debut album "Doggystyle" and calls it "Lodi Dodi."

加入到他的首張專輯「狗狗風格」裡， 把它稱之為 Lodi Dodi。

Copyright lawyers are having a field day at this point.

版權律師這時可是吵到不行。

And then you fast forward to 1997,

然後你快進到 1997 年，

and the Notorious B.I.G., or Biggie,

當時 Notorious B.I.G. 或者 Biggie

reinterprets "La Di Da Di"

在他最熱門的「催眠術」中

on his number one hit called "Hypnotize,"

重新演繹了 La Di Da Di。

which I will play a little bit of

我會播放這首歌的其中一段，

and I will play you a little bit of the Slick Rick

我也會播放 Slick Rick 的其中一段，

to show you where they got it from.

讓大家聽聽他們從哪裡得來。

(Music: "Hypnotize" by The Notorious B.I.G.)

（音樂：The Notorious B.I.G. 的「催眠術」）

So Biggie was killed

Biggie 後來被謀殺了，

weeks before that song made it to number one,

時間是在這首歌成為冠軍曲的前幾週，

in one of the great tragedies of the hip-hop era,

這是嘻哈時代的悲劇之一，

but he would have been 13 years old

La Di Da Di 推出時，

and very much alive when "La Di Da Di" first came out,

他應該是 13 歲，活得好好的。

and as a young boy

身為青少年，

growing up in Brooklyn,

出身於布魯克林，

it's hard not to think that that song probably held

很難不去想像那首歌曲

some fond memories for him.

對他來說到底藏有多少美好記憶。

But the way he interpreted it, as you hear,

但是他演繹這首歌的方式，正如你所聽到，

is completely his own.

完全是他的個人風格。

He flips it, makes it,

他改造了這首歌曲，創造了新的歌曲，

there's nothing pastiche whatsoever about it.

這首歌不是東拼西湊的混合物。

It's thoroughly modern Biggie.

這完全是現代 Biggie 的作品。

I had to make that joke in this room,

我不得不在這裡講這個笑話，

because you would be the only people that I'd ever have a chance of getting it.

因為你們大概是唯一有機會聽懂我的人。

And so, it's a groaner. (Laughter)

好吧，這是我的無奈。（笑聲）

Elsewhere in the pop and rap world,

在流行音樂和饒舌音樂的世界裡，

we're going a little bit sample-crazy.

我們開始變成混搭迷。

We're getting away from the obscure samples that we were doing,

我們開始遠離一直在做的隱晦取樣混搭，

and all of a sudden everyone's taking

然後霎時間，大家都開始採用

these massive '80s tunes like Bowie, "Let's Dance,"

這些80年代大眾曲調，例如鮑伊的「一起跳吧」，

and all these disco records, and just rapping on them.

還有所有的迪斯科音樂，用饒舌方式唱。

These records don't really age that well.

這些音樂不太會過時。

You don't hear them now, because they borrowed

現在大家都不再聽這類音樂了，

因為這是從另一個年代借來的，

from an era that was too steeped

in its own connotation.

充滿了自身的各種隱喻。

You can't just hijack nostalgia wholesale.

你不可以隨便搶劫懷舊然後批發。

It leaves the listener feeling sickly.

這樣會讓聽眾受不了。

You have to take an element of those things

你必須從這些歌裡面提取一個元素，

and then bring something fresh and new to it,

然後把一些新鮮的東西帶進去，

which was something that I learned

這也是我之前學來的東西，

when I was working with the late,

那時我還在和現已逝世、

amazing Amy Winehouse

光鮮亮麗的艾美．懷絲合作

on her album "Back to Black."

創造她的專輯《黑色會》。

A lot of fuss was made about the sonic of the album

當時為了這個專輯的音波，

我和另一位製作人薩朗．雷米不免有些爭吵，

that myself and Salaam Remi, the other producer,

achieved, how we captured this long-lost sound,

爭論我們怎樣捕捉這遺失很久的聲音，

but without the very, very 21st-century personality

要是沒有 21 世紀現代個性和魔力，

and firebrand that was Amy Winehouse

艾美．懷絲關於戒毒所和 羅傑．摩爾的歌詞就做不到，

and her lyrics about rehab and Roger Moore

and even a mention of Slick Rick,

還有Slick Rick的元素，

the whole thing would have run the risk

這個東西就會岌岌可危，

of being very pastiche, to be honest.

老實說有可能會變成想到凌亂。

Imagine any other singer from that era over it

要是隨意從那個時代找一個歌手

singing the same old lyrics.

重新演唱同樣的老歌詞。

It runs a risk of being completely bland.

這有可能會被認為極度無聊。

I mean, there was no doubt that Amy

我是說，毫無疑問

and I and Salaam all had this love

艾美、我還有薩朗都同樣熱愛

for this gospel, soul and blues and jazz

這樣的信仰、靈魂、藍調和爵士樂，

that was evident listening to the musical arrangements.

你聽聽音樂的改編就會發現。

She brought the ingredients that made it urgent

她帶進了一些元素，

and of the time.

使得歌曲更加緊迫、更具時代意味。

So if we come all the way up to the present day now,

所以如果我們縱觀歷史，

the cultural tour de force that is Miley Cyrus,

其中的文化代表作屬於麥莉．希拉，

she reinterprets "La Di Da Di"

她為同時代的人

completely for her generation,

重新演繹了 La Di Da Di，

and we'll take a listen to the Slick Rick part

我們會先聽一段 Slick Rick，

and then see how she sort of flipped it.

然後在看看她是怎樣改變這首歌。

(Music: "La Di Da Di" by Slick Rick & Doug E. Fresh)

(音樂: Slick Rick & 道格．佛萊許的 "La Di Da Di" )

(Music: "We Can't Stop" by Miley Cyrus)

(音樂: 麥莉．希拉的 "We Can't Stop")

So Miley Cyrus,

麥莉．希拉

who wasn't even born yet when "La Di Da Di" was made,

在"La Di Da Di" 推出時，她還沒出生，

and neither were any of the co-writers on the song,

那首歌的作曲人一個也沒出生，

has found this song that somehow

她發現這首歌某程度上

etched its way into the collective consciousness of pop music,

已經在流行音樂的集體回憶中 刻下了它的印記，

and now, with its timeless playfulness of the original,

時至今日，這首歌原作具有一種超時空玩味，

has kind of translated to a whole new generation

並且某程度上給新生代創造了全新演繹，

who will probably co-opt it as their own.

讓新生代自由選擇改編。

Since the dawn of the sampling era,

自音樂取樣混搭時代起，

there's been endless debate

就有過無數的爭論，

about the validity of music that contains samples.

爭論採用樣本的音樂算不算是音樂。

You know, the Grammy committee says that

大家知道，葛萊美獎委員會說

if your song contains some kind of pre-written

如果你的歌包含一些之前寫過的音樂

or pre-existing music,

或者之前存在過的音樂，

you're ineligible for song of the year.

那麼就沒資格申請那年的歌曲提名。

Rockists, who are racist

搖滾樂歧視者

but only about rock music,

是僅歧視搖滾音樂的人，

constantly use the argument to —

不斷使用一個論點來——

That's a real word. That is a real word.

真的有這個單字啦。

They constantly use the argument to devalue rap

他們不斷使用一個論點來

and modern pop,

貶低說唱和現代流行音樂，

and these arguments completely miss the point,

而這些論點已經完全無殺傷力，

because the dam has burst.

因為水庫已經被沖開。

We live in the post-sampling era.

我們生活在後取樣混搭時代。

We take the things that we love

我選取我們喜愛的東西，

and we build on them.

我們在此基礎上進行改造。

That's just how it goes.

這就是我們的方式。

And when we really add something significant and original

當我們真正地添加 一些重要原創的東西，

and we merge our musical journey with this,

把我們的音樂歷程與此相結合，

then we have a chance to be

然後我們有機會

a part of the evolution of that music that we love

成為我們所熱愛的音樂進化歷程之一，

and be linked with it once it becomes something new again.

並且等到這再次成為新的東西， 我們就與此產生聯繫。

So I would like to do one more piece

所以我想再播一首歌，

that I put together for you tonight,

這是我今晚為各位準備的，

and it takes place with two

這首歌的內容

來自兩個有啟發意義的TED表演。

pretty inspiring TED performances that I've seen.

One of them is the piano player Derek Paravicini,

其中一個是鋼琴演奏家德瑞克．帕拉文西尼，

who happens to be a blind,

他是一位盲人，

autistic genius at the piano,

身患孤獨症的鋼琴天才，

and Emmanuel Jal, who is an ex-child soldier

另外一位是阿曼紐．加爾，

from the South Sudan,

他曾是蘇丹南部的童兵

who is a spoken word poet and rapper.

他是口頭語言詩人和饒舌歌手。

And once again I found a way to annoyingly

而且我再次找到了一種方式

me-me-me myself into the musical history

來不厭其煩地

將自己擠進這些音樂的歷史。

of these songs,

but I can't help it,

我就是忍不住這樣做，

because they're these things that I love,

因為這就是我熱愛的東西，

and I want to mess around with them.

我想與這些東西打交道。

So I hope you enjoy this. Here we go.

所以，我希望大家喜歡。我們開始吧。

Let's hear that TED sound again, right?

我們再來聽聽 TED 的聲音，好吧？

(Music)

（音樂）

Thank you very much. Thank you.

非常感謝。謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）