Why nations should pursue "soft" power | Shashi Tharoor

1,175,333 views ・ 2009-12-02

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翻译人员: 张 雷 校对人员: Chaoran Yu
00:15
As an Indian, and now as a politician
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作为一个印度人,一名政治家,
00:17
and a government minister,
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一位政府部长
00:19
I've become rather concerned about
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我越来越关注有关
00:21
the hype we're hearing about our own country,
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自己的国家报道,
00:23
all this talk about India becoming a world leader,
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所有这些报道都是关于印度将成为世界的领头羊,
00:25
even the next superpower.
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甚至是下一个超级大国。
00:27
In fact, the American publishers of my book,
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事实上,我的书《大象,老虎和手机》
00:29
"The Elephant, The Tiger and the Cell Phone,"
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被美国出版商,
00:31
added a gratuitous subtitle saying,
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加了一条无必要的副标题—
00:33
"India: The next 21st-century power."
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《印度:21世纪的接替者》。
00:35
And I just don't think that's what India's all about,
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而且我并不认为那就是印度未来的所有
00:37
or should be all about.
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或者应该成为的。
00:39
Indeed, what worries me is the entire notion of world leadership
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事实上,我最担心的是世界的领导观念
00:43
seems to me terribly archaic.
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会是非常陈旧的。
00:45
It's redolent of James Bond movies
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这让人联想起007的电影
00:47
and Kipling ballads.
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和吉卜林(生于印度孟买,英国作家及诗人)的诗歌。
00:49
After all, what constitutes a world leader?
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什么才是世界领袖?
00:51
If it's population, we're on course to top the charts.
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如果按人口来说,我们正朝着排行榜前列航行。
00:54
We will overtake China by 2034.
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2034年我们将超过中国。
00:58
Is it military strength? Well, we have the world's fourth largest army.
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抑或是军事实力?那么,我们有世界第四大军队。
01:01
Is it nuclear capacity? We know we have that.
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还是核能力?我们知道我们有。
01:03
The Americans have even recognized it,
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美国人已意识到这一点,
01:05
in an agreement.
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在(签订)协议中。
01:07
Is it the economy? Well, we have now
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又或是经济发展情况?那么,我们已是
01:09
the fifth-largest economy in the world
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世界第五大经济体
01:11
in purchasing power parity terms.
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按平均购买力计算。
01:13
And we continue to grow. When the rest of the world took a beating last year,
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当世界其它地区去年经济惨遭滑铁卢时,我们依然继续增长。
01:16
we grew at 6.7 percent.
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我们增长了百分之六点七。
01:19
But, somehow, none of that adds up to me,
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但是,不知何故,所有的事一起呈现出來,我都不认为,
01:23
to what I think India really can aim to contribute in the world,
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印度
01:28
in this part of the 21st century.
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为21世纪做出了真正的贡献。
01:30
And so I wondered, could
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所以,我想知道,
01:33
what the future beckons for India to be all about
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未来对印度来说意味着什么
01:36
be a combination of these things allied to something else,
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是这些东西的组合结盟还是别的什么,
01:39
the power of example,
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让我来举一个体现实力的例子,
01:41
the attraction of India's culture,
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印度文化的吸引力,
01:44
what, in other words, people like to call "soft power."
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换句话说,很多人喜欢称之为“软实力”。
01:49
Soft power is a concept invented by a Harvard academic,
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软实力是一位哈佛学者提出的一个概念,
01:52
Joseph Nye, a friend of mine.
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约瑟夫·奈,我的一个朋友。
01:54
And, very simply, and I'm really cutting it short because of the time limits here,
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这个概念很简单,因为时间的限制,我在这里很简短的介绍一下,
01:58
it's essentially the ability of a country to attract others
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它本质上是一个国家能够吸引别人的能力
02:01
because of its culture, its political values,
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由于其文化,政治价值观,
02:03
its foreign policies.
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及外交政策。
02:05
And, you know, lots of countries do this. He was writing initially about the States,
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而且,你知道,很多国家都在这样做。这实际上是在初步刻画一国家,
02:08
but we know the Alliance Francaise
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如法兰西联盟
02:10
is all about French soft power, the British Council.
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宣扬法国软实力,还有英国文化委员会。
02:13
The Beijing Olympics were an exercise in Chinese soft power.
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北京奥运会是中国宣扬其软实力的鲜明例子。
02:16
Americans have the Voice of America and the Fulbright scholarships.
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美国人有美国之音和富布赖特奖学金计划。
02:20
But, the fact is, in fact,
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但是,实际上
02:22
that probably Hollywood and MTV and McDonalds
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好莱坞,MTV和麦当劳
02:25
have done more for American soft power
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对美国软实力传播作出更大的贡献
02:27
around the world than any specifically government activity.
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且超出了世界上任何政府为此举办的各种特别活动。
02:30
So soft power is something that really emerges
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因此,软实力是真正展现的东西
02:33
partly because of governments,
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部分原因是由于政府的实力,
02:35
but partly despite governments.
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但部分原因是跟政府毫无关联。
02:37
And in the information era we all live in today,
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在我们仙剑生活的时代中,
02:40
what we might call the TED age,
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我们或许会把它称之为TED时代,
02:43
I'd say that countries are increasingly being judged
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我想说,各国正日益
02:46
by a global public that's been fed
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受到全球公众评判,
02:49
on an incessant diet of Internet news,
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如互联网上不断提供的新闻,
02:52
of televised images,
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电视图像,
02:54
of cellphone videos, of email gossip.
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手机视频,电子邮件的说三道四等,
02:57
In other words, all sorts of communication devices
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换言之,我们如今可以通过各种通信设备
03:00
are telling us the stories of countries,
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以得知一国家的信息
03:02
whether or not the countries concerned want people to hear those stories.
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不管相关国家部分是否希望人们获得这些信息。
03:07
Now, in this age, again, countries with access
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今天,拥有通讯及
03:09
to multiple channels of communication
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多重信息渠道的国家
03:11
and information have a particular advantage.
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将享有特别的优势。
03:13
And of course they have more influence, sometimes, about how they're seen.
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当然,他们有着更大的影响力,有时,可以颠倒黑白。
03:17
India has more all-news TV channels
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印度的新闻电视频道
03:19
than any country in the world,
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比世界上任何一个国家都多,
03:21
in fact in most of the countries in this part of the world put together.
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实际上是世界上的大多数国家的新闻电视频道的总和。
03:25
But, the fact still is that it's not just that.
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但是,我们不止步于此。
03:27
In order to have soft power, you have to be connected.
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软实力必须与外界相连。
03:30
One might argue that India has become
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可能有人会说
03:32
an astonishingly connected country.
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印度已成为一个拥有惊人的信息链的国家。
03:34
I think you've already heard the figures.
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我想你们已经听到过这些数字。
03:36
We've been selling 15 million cellphones a month.
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我们每个月销售1500万部手机。
03:40
Currently there are 509 million cellphones
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印度目前共有5.09亿
03:43
in Indian hands, in India.
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手机用户。
03:45
And that makes us larger than the U.S. as a telephone market.
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就电话市场来说,我们已超过美国。
03:49
In fact, those 15 million cellphones
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事实上,每个月1500万部手机的销售量
03:52
are the most connections that any country,
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就像美国和中国
03:54
including the U.S. and China,
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这样的电信市场大国,
03:56
has ever established in the history of telecommunications.
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都没发生过。
03:59
But, what perhaps some of you don't realize
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但是,或许你们还未意识到
04:01
is how far we've come to get there.
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迄今为止,我们是如何达到这种水平的。
04:03
You know, when I grew up in India,
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你们知道,在我小时候
04:05
telephones were a rarity.
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电话可是一种稀有的东西。
04:07
In fact, they were so rare that elected members of Parliament
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事实上,他们是如此稀有,以至于只有当选的议会议员
04:09
had the right to allocate 15 telephone lines
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才有权分享那些
04:12
as a favor to those they deemed worthy.
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他们认为值得青睐的15条电话线。
04:14
If you were lucky enough to be a wealthy businessman
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如果你有幸成为富商
04:17
or an influential journalist, or a doctor or something, you might have a telephone.
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或是一位有影响的记者,或医生,或是其他有影响的人,你才可能获得一部电话。
04:20
But sometimes it just sat there.
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但是,有时只是坐在那里。
04:22
I went to high school in Calcutta.
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我高中是在加尔各答上的。
04:24
And we would look at this instrument sitting in the front foyer.
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我们默默的坐在大厅前注视着这个通话工具。
04:26
But half the time we would pick it up
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但是,有一半的时间,我们会带着期盼的目光
04:28
with an expectant look on our faces,
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把它接起来,
04:30
there would be no dial tone.
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然而根本没有拨号音。
04:32
If there was a dial tone and you dialed a number,
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如果有拨号音,你拨一个号码,
04:34
the odds were two in three you wouldn't get the number you were intending to reach.
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三分之二的可能性是你根本不能打通你要拨的目的地。
04:38
In fact the words "wrong number" were more popular than the word "Hello."
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事实上,"错号"的声音要比"喂"的声音更为流行。
04:41
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:42
If you then wanted to connect to another city,
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如果你想连接到其他城市,
04:44
let's say from Calcutta you wanted to call Delhi,
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假设你想从加尔各答打到德里,
04:46
you'd have to book something called a trunk call,
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你必须预订一种叫长途电话的服务,
04:48
and then sit by the phone all day, waiting for it to come through.
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然后坐在电话旁等上一整天,直到线路为你开通为止。
04:51
Or you could pay eight times the going rate
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或者你可以支付比现行利率高8倍的使用费
04:54
for something called a lightning call.
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支付一种名为闪电呼叫的服务。
04:56
But, lightning struck rather slowly in our country in those days,
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但是,在那些日子里, 就像闪电呼叫的这种服务也是相当的慢,
04:58
so, it was like about a half an hour for a lightning call to come through.
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当时,闪电呼叫服务大约需要半个小时才能打通。
05:02
In fact, so woeful was our telephone service
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事实上,我们的电话服务是这样的悲伤
05:05
that a Member of Parliament stood up in 1984 and complained about this.
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以至于一名国会成员于1984年在议会中对此抱怨。
05:09
And the Then-Communications Minister replied in a lordly manner
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而当时的通信部长以很高傲的态度回答
05:12
that in a developing country
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在一个发展中国家
05:14
communications are a luxury, not a right,
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通讯是一种奢侈品不是一项权利,
05:16
that the government had no obligation to provide better service,
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政府没有义务提供更好的服务,
05:20
and if the honorable Member wasn't satisfied with his telephone,
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而如果荣誉会员不满意他的电话,
05:22
could he please return it, since there was an eight-year-long waiting list
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请他完全可以将电话退回,因为当时的印度,为了打电话,
05:25
for telephones in India.
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有8年之久的等待名单。
05:28
Now, fast-forward to today and this is what you see:
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现在,快进到今天,这是你所看到的,
05:30
the 15 million cell phones a month.
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每个月1500万部手机的销售量
05:32
But what is most striking is who is carrying those cell phones.
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但是,最引人注目的是谁携带手机。
05:36
You know, if you visit friends in the suburbs of Delhi,
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你们知道,如果你在访问新德里郊区的朋友,
05:39
on the side streets you will find a fellow with a cart
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在小街你会发现一个运货马车家伙
05:42
that looks like it was designed in the 16th century,
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看起来就像是在16世纪设计的,
05:45
wielding a coal-fired steam iron
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挥舞燃煤蒸汽电熨斗
05:48
that might have been invented in the 18th century.
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可能已经在18世纪发明的。
05:50
He's called an isthri wala. But he's carrying a 21st-century instrument.
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他被称为isthri wala。但他带着21世纪的工具。
05:53
He's carrying a cell phone because most incoming calls are free,
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他携带手机,因为大部分来电是免费的,
05:56
and that's how he gets orders from the neighborhood,
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这就是他怎么从邻居那里拿到订单的,
05:58
to know where to collect clothes to get them ironed.
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知道在哪里,收集衣服,让他们熨。
06:02
The other day I was in Kerala, my home state,
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有一天,我在喀拉拉邦,我的家乡。
06:05
at the country farm of a friend,
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在一个朋友的农场上,
06:07
about 20 kilometers away from any place you'd consider urban.
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离城里约20公里。
06:11
And it was a hot day and he said, "Hey, would you like some fresh coconut water?"
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它是一个炎热的一天,他说:“嗨,你想喝一些新鲜椰子水吗?”
06:14
And it's the best thing and the most nutritious and refreshing thing you can drink
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这也是在热带那种炎热的天气里,能喝到最有营养的和令人耳目一新的饮料
06:17
on a hot day in the tropics, so I said sure.
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所以我的回答是,当然了。
06:20
And he whipped out his cellphone, dialed the number,
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于是他拿起了他的手机,拨了个号码,
06:22
and a voice said, "I'm up here."
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手机那边传来一个声音说,“我就在附近。”
06:24
And right on top of the nearest coconut tree,
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而且就在最近的椰子树的顶端,
06:26
with a hatchet in one hand and a cell phone in the other,
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一个手里拿着手斧,另一只手里拿着手机
06:29
was a local toddy tapper,
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是一个本地卖椰子汁的
06:31
who proceeded to bring down the coconuts for us to drink.
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他井然有序地从椰子树上给我们带来新鲜的椰子汁。
06:34
Fishermen are going out to sea and carrying their cell phones.
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渔民们在出海前拿起他们的手机。
06:37
When they catch the fish they call all the market towns along the coast
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当他们捕获到鱼时,他们会给所有沿岸集镇打去电话
06:40
to find out where they get the best possible prices.
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找出他们在那儿能得到最好的价格。
06:42
Farmers now, who used to have to spend half a day of backbreaking labor
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以前的农民奔命半天
06:46
to find out if the market town was open,
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为去找到哪里有集市开放,
06:48
if the market was on,
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如果市场开放的话,
06:50
whether the product they'd harvested could be sold, what price they'd fetch.
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他们还得知道是否值得出售自己的丰收物,是否能卖个好价钱。
06:53
They'd often send an eight year old boy all the way on this trudge
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为此他们会经常派一名8岁的男孩一路跋涉
06:56
to the market town to get that information and come back,
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到集镇获得信息然后再回来,
06:58
then they'd load the cart.
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之后他们还得装车。
07:00
Today they're saving half a day's labor with a two minute phone call.
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今时今日,过去大半天的劳动仅仅用两分钟的电话就解决了。
07:04
So this empowerment of the underclass
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这种被赋有权力的底层阶级
07:07
is the real result of India being connected.
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就是印度信息连接的真实的结果。
07:10
And that transformation is part of where India is heading today.
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而这种转变是印度今天发展方向的一部分。
07:15
But, of course that's not the only thing about India that's spreading.
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但是,当然这不是印度发展的唯一形式。
07:18
You've got Bollywood. My attitude to Bollywood is best summarized
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你们一定听说过宝莱坞。 我对宝莱坞的观点可以用
07:21
in the tale of the two goats at a Bollywood garbage dump --
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两只山羊在宝莱坞垃圾场的故事概括 --
07:24
Mr. Shekhar Kapur, forgive me --
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[不明确] 请原谅 --
07:28
and they're chewing away on cans of celluloid discarded by a Bollywood studio.
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他们咀嚼着被一个宝莱坞工作室丢弃的一罐电影胶片。
07:32
And the first goat, chewing away, says, "You know, this film is not bad."
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第一个山羊,咀嚼着,说:“你知道,这部电影不错(指胶片的味道)。”
07:35
And the second goat says, "No, the book was better."
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第二个山羊说:“不,书的味道更好些。”
07:39
(Laughter)
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(笑)
07:45
I usually tend to think that the book is usually better,
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我通常倾向于认为,书是更好的,
07:48
but, having said that,
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但是,话虽如此,
07:50
the fact is that Bollywood is now
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事实是,宝莱坞
07:52
taking a certain aspect of Indian-ness and Indian culture around the globe,
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以某一方面在世界各地传播着印度海岬和印度文化,
07:56
not just in the Indian diaspora in the U.S. and the U.K.,
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不仅只是为了给在美国和英国生活的印度侨民,
07:59
but to the screens of Arabs and Africans, of Senegalese and Syrians.
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而且也搬上了从阿拉伯人到非洲人,从塞内加尔到叙利亚人的屏幕。
08:03
I've met a young man in New York whose illiterate mother
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我在纽约遇见一位年轻人,他母亲是文盲
08:06
in a village in Senegal
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并住在塞内加尔的一个村子里,
08:08
takes a bus once a month to the capital city of Dakar,
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她每月都乘车去省会达喀尔,
08:11
just to watch a Bollywood movie.
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仅仅是为了观看宝莱坞电影。
08:13
She can't understand the dialogue.
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她无法理解对话内容。
08:15
She's illiterate, so she can't read the French subtitles.
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她是文盲,因此她看不懂法文字幕。
08:18
But these movies are made to be understood despite such handicaps,
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但是,尽管有这些障碍,这些电影还是可以理解的,
08:21
and she has a great time in the song and the dance and the action.
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她很开心的欣赏着电影里的音乐,舞蹈和画面,
08:24
She goes away with stars in her eyes about India, as a result.
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结果,她从宝莱坞电影明星那里获知关于印度的印象。
08:28
And this is happening more and more.
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这种例子发生的越来越多。
08:30
Afghanistan, we know what a serious security problem
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阿富汗,我们知道那里存在着什么样的严重安全问题
08:33
Afghanistan is for so many of us in the world.
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阿富汗是我们许多在世界上的人来说,关心的焦点。
08:36
India doesn't have a military mission there.
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印度在哪儿没有军事任务。
08:38
You know what was India's biggest asset in Afghanistan in the last seven years?
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你们知道印度过去7年在阿富汗最大的资产是什么?
08:42
One simple fact:
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一个简单的事实:
08:44
you couldn't try to call an Afghan at 8:30 in the evening.
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你不能尝试在晚上8:30给阿富汗人打电话。
08:47
Why? Because that was the moment
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为什么?因为在那个时间断
08:49
when the Indian television soap opera,
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正在播放印度电视肥皂剧,
08:51
"Kyunki Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahu Thi," dubbed into Dari, was telecast on Tolo T.V.
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[印地文],配上印度手纺纱棉毯, 在Todo T.V 上转播
08:57
And it was the most popular television show in Afghan history.
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它是阿富汗史上最受欢迎的电视节目。
09:00
Every Afghan family wanted to watch it.
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每一个阿富汗家庭都想看。
09:02
They had to suspend functions at 8:30.
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他们于8:30不得不停做其它的事情。
09:04
Weddings were reported to be interrupted
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据报告,婚礼被中断
09:07
so guests could cluster around the T.V. set,
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让客人可以围绕在电视机前,
09:09
and then turn their attention back to the bride and groom.
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电视剧完后才注意力回到新郎和新娘上。
09:12
Crime went up at 8:30. I have read a Reuters dispatch --
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我看到过路透社的新闻报道,称在8:30犯罪率上升 --
09:15
so this is not Indian propaganda, a British news agency --
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所以,这并不是印度的宣传,而是一家英国通讯社的报道 --
09:18
about how robbers in the town of Musarri Sharif*
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如小偷是如何在马扎里沙里夫市
09:21
stripped a vehicle of its windshield wipers,
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偷取汽车挡风玻璃雨刷,
09:24
its hubcaps, its sideview mirrors,
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其轮毂,其侧视镜的,
09:27
any moving part they could find, at 8:30,
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任何活动部件,他们都可以在8:30找到,
09:30
because the watchmen were busy watching the T.V. rather than minding the store.
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因为警卫忙着看电视,而不是看商店。
09:33
And they scrawled on the windshield in a reference to the show's heroine,
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之后他们在挡风玻璃上涂写在该节目的女主角,
09:37
"Tulsi Zindabad": "Long live Tulsi."
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"Tulsi Zindabad" : " Tulsi万岁."
09:40
(Laughter)
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(笑)
09:41
That's soft power. And that is what India is developing
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这就是软实力。而这正是印度正在发展中的
09:45
through the "E" part of TED:
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就像通过TED 中的 "E" 字母(娱乐):
09:47
its own entertainment industry.
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自己的娱乐事业。
09:49
The same is true, of course -- we don't have time for too many more examples --
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同样是如此 -- 当然我们没有太多时间,举更多的例子 --
09:52
but it's true of our music, of our dance,
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但对于我们的舞蹈,音乐,
09:55
of our art, yoga, ayurveda, even Indian cuisine.
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艺术,瑜伽,印度草医学,甚至印度菜来说,这是事实。
09:59
I mean, the proliferation of Indian restaurants
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我的意思是,印度餐馆的扩散,
10:02
since I first went abroad as a student, in the mid '70s,
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我第一次出国留学的时候,是在七十年代中期,
10:05
and what I see today, you can't go to a mid-size town in Europe or North America
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现时,当你在欧洲或北美的中小城市里,
10:09
and not find an Indian restaurant. It may not be a very good one.
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你不可能找不到印度餐馆。尽管可能不是很地道。
10:12
But, today in Britain, for example,
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但是,我们以今天的英国为例,
10:14
Indian restaurants in Britain
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在英国的印度餐馆
10:17
employ more people than the coal mining,
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雇员工人数超过了其煤炭开采,
10:19
ship building and iron and steel industries combined.
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造船和钢铁工业雇用员工的总和。
10:22
So the empire can strike back.
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因此,帝国还可以反击吗。
10:24
(Applause)
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(鼓掌声)
10:31
But, with this increasing awareness of India,
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但随着对印度认识的提高
10:33
with yoga and ayurveda, and so on,
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通过你们和我,还有其他人,
10:35
with tales like Afghanistan,
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通过像阿富汗的故事,
10:37
comes something vital in the information era,
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来自信息时代里的一些重要的东西,
10:40
the sense that in today's world
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在当今世界中的一种感觉
10:43
it's not the side of the bigger army that wins,
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这不是拥有战无不败的强大的军队,
10:46
it's the country that tells a better story that prevails.
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而是一个国家能讲述可广泛流行的故事。
10:49
And India is, and must remain, in my view, the land of the better story.
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印度是,而且应继续,在我看来,有众多故事的国家。
10:54
Stereotypes are changing. I mean, again, having gone to the U.S.
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定型观念正在发生变化。我的意思是,再次,流向了美国
10:57
as a student in the mid '70s,
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作为七十年代中期的学生,
10:59
I knew what the image of India was then, if there was an image at all.
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我知道当时印度的形象是指对印度的整体印象。
11:02
Today, people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere
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今天,人们在硅谷和其他地方
11:05
speak of the IITs, the Indian Institutes of Technology
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谈及印度理工学院,印度技术学院时,
11:08
with the same reverence they used to accord to MIT.
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他们都给予与麻省理工学院同样的崇敬。
11:12
This can sometimes have unintended consequences. OK.
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这有时会产生意想不到的后果。好的。
11:14
I had a friend, a history major like me,
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我有一个朋友,主修历史和我一样,
11:17
who was accosted at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam,
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曾在阿姆斯特丹的斯希普霍尔机场,
11:20
by an anxiously perspiring European saying,
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被一个很焦急的一位欧洲人问道,
11:22
"You're Indian, you're Indian! Can you help me fix my laptop?"
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“你是印度人,你是印度人!你能帮我修一下我的笔记本吗?”
11:25
(Laughter)
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(笑)
11:27
We've gone from the image of India as
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我们的形象已经从印度作为
11:30
land of fakirs lying on beds of nails,
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躺在钉床上的苦行僧,
11:33
and snake charmers with the Indian rope trick,
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用印度绳耍蛇的把戏的国家
11:36
to the image of India as a land of mathematical geniuses,
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到一个拥有充满数学天才,
11:39
computer wizards, software gurus.
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电脑奇才,软件大师的土地。
11:41
But that too is transforming the Indian story around the world.
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但是那也改变了印度在世界各地的故事。
11:46
But, there is something more substantive to that.
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但是,还有更实质性的东西。
11:48
The story rests on a fundamental platform
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随后的故事取决于
11:50
of political pluralism.
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政治多元化的基本平台
11:52
It's a civilizational story to begin with.
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这是一个文明的故事开始。
11:54
Because India has been an open society for millennia.
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几千年来印度已经成为一个开放的社会。
11:59
India gave refuge to the Jews, fleeing the destruction of the first temple
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印度给予被巴比伦人入侵的犹太人庇护,
12:04
by the Babylonians, and said thereafter by the Romans.
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又据说,是从古罗马人那里获得庇荫。
12:07
In fact, legend has is that when Doubting Thomas, the Apostle, Saint Thomas,
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事实上,传说中,当传教士,圣托马斯时
12:12
landed on the shores of Kerala, my home state,
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于我的家乡喀拉拉邦海岸登陆,
12:14
somewhere around 52 A.D.,
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大概在公元52年,
12:16
he was welcomed on shore by a flute-playing Jewish girl.
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他在岸上受到由长笛演奏的犹太女孩的欢迎。
12:19
And to this day remains the only Jewish diaspora
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而直到今时今日他们仍然
12:23
in the history of the Jewish people, which has never encountered
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唯一一群没受到种族歧视的
12:25
a single incident of anti-semitism.
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犹太侨民。
12:28
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
12:34
That's the Indian story.
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这是印度的故事。
12:36
Islam came peacefully to the south,
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伊斯兰教和平地来到南方,
12:38
slightly more differently complicated history in the north.
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稍微复杂的是北部的历史。
12:40
But all of these religions have found a place and a welcome home in India.
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但是,这些宗教都在印度找到了安家的地方。
12:45
You know, we just celebrated, this year, our general elections,
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正如你们所知,我们刚刚庆祝完,我国今年的大选,
12:48
the biggest exercise in democratic franchise in human history.
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这是人类历史上民主人口最多的国家。
12:51
And the next one will be even bigger, because our voting population
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而下一届的选举将会更大,因为我们的投票人口
12:53
keeps growing by 20 million a year.
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保持每年2000万人的增长速度。
12:56
But, the fact is
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但是,事实是
12:58
that the last elections, five years ago,
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五年前的选举,
13:00
gave the world extraordinary phenomenon
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给予世界一震惊的景象,
13:02
of an election being won by a woman political leader
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选举获胜人是女性政治领袖
13:06
of Italian origin and Roman Catholic faith, Sonia Gandhi,
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意大利裔和天主教信仰者,索尼娅甘地,
13:09
who then made way for a Sikh, Mohan Singh,
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国会议员莫汉·辛格则用锡克教徒的方式
13:12
to be sworn in as Prime Minister
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来宣誓就任总理,
13:14
by a Muslim, President Abdul Kalam,
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在印度总统卡拉姆则是一位穆斯林,
13:17
in a country 81 percent Hindu.
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而印度教则统治着百分之八十一的国民。
13:19
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
13:28
This is India, and of course it's all the more striking
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这就是印度,当然它更引人注目
13:31
because it was four years later that we all applauded
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因为这是4年之后,我们都为他鼓掌
13:33
the U.S., the oldest democracy in the modern world,
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美国,在现代世界最古老的民主国家,
13:37
more than 220 years of free and fair elections,
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220多年的自由和公正的选举
13:40
which took till last year to elect a president or a vice president
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去年选出的总统和副总统,
13:44
who wasn't white, male or Christian.
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既不是白人也不是基督教徒
13:46
So, maybe -- oh sorry, he is Christian, I beg your pardon --
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也许, - 哦,对不起,他是基督徒,请原谅 --
13:49
and he is male, but he isn't white.
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他是一位男性,但不是一名白人。
13:51
All the others have been all those three.
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他们这些人都包含那三点。
13:53
(Laughter)
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(笑)
13:55
All his predecessors have been all those three,
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他所有的前任都包含那三点,
13:57
and that's the point I was trying to make.
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这就是我想试图解释的核心问题。
13:59
(Laughter)
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(笑)
14:00
But, the issue is
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但是,问题是
14:02
that when I talked about that example,
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当我谈到这个例子时,
14:04
it's not just about talking about India, it's not propaganda.
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它不只是在说印度,这不是一个宣传。
14:09
Because ultimately, that electoral outcome
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因为最终,该选举结果
14:12
had nothing to do with the rest of the world.
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与世界其他地区无关。
14:14
It was essentially India being itself.
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这实质上是关于印度的自身。
14:16
And ultimately, it seems to me,
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并最终,在我看来,
14:18
that always works better than propaganda.
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比宣传要更有效。
14:20
Governments aren't very good at telling stories.
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各国政府并不擅长讲故事。
14:23
But people see a society for what it is,
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但是,选民看到的是社会的真实情况,
14:25
and that, it seems to me, is what ultimately
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而且,在我看来,
14:27
will make a difference in today's information era,
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正是他们最终将决定当今的信息时代的差异,
14:31
in today's TED age.
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今时的TED时代。
14:33
So India now is no longer
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因此,印度现在已不再有
14:36
the nationalism of ethnicity or language or religion,
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种族、语言或信仰民族主义,
14:40
because we have every ethnicity known to mankind, practically,
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因为我们知道每一个种族都是人类大家庭的一员,实际上,
14:42
we've every religion know to mankind,
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我们都知道人类的各种宗教,
14:44
with the possible exception of Shintoism,
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日本神道教可能例外。
14:46
though that has some Hindu elements somewhere.
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虽然这部分有一些印度教的地方。
14:49
We have 23 official languages that are recognized in our Constitution.
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我们宪法承认23种官方语言。
14:54
And those of you who cashed your money here
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你们在这里兑换现钱时,
14:56
might be surprised to see how many scripts there are
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可能会惊奇地发现卢比上
14:59
on the rupee note, spelling out the denominations.
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有那么多关于面额的脚本说明。
15:01
We've got all of that.
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我们已经有了这一切。
15:03
We don't even have geography uniting us,
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我们甚至没有完整的地理版图。
15:05
because the natural geography of the subcontinent
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因为我们属于地理学中的次大陆
15:08
framed by the mountains and the sea was hacked
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由山和海组成的框架
15:10
by the partition with Pakistan in 1947.
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被巴基斯坦在1947年分裂。
15:13
In fact, you can't even take the name of the country for granted,
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事实上,你甚至不能理所当然的采用国名。
15:16
because the name "India" comes from the river Indus,
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因为“印度”这个名称,是来自印度河,
15:18
which flows in Pakistan.
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此河在巴基斯坦的流动。
15:20
But, the whole point is that India
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但是,整个问题是,印度
15:23
is the nationalism of an idea.
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是一个民族主义的观念。
15:25
It's the idea of an ever-ever-land,
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这个观念就是无限的土地,
15:28
emerging from an ancient civilization,
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源于一种古老的文明,
15:30
united by a shared history,
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分享着共同的历史,
15:32
but sustained, above all, by pluralist democracy.
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但是长期来看,最重要的是,通过多元化民主。
15:35
That is a 21st-century story as well as an ancient one.
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这是21世纪的故事,也是一个古老的一个。
15:39
And it's the nationalism of an idea that
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并且它是一个观念的民族主义,
15:42
essentially says you can endure differences of caste, creed,
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本质上说,你可以忍受种姓差异,信仰,
15:46
color, culture, cuisine, custom and costume, consonant, for that matter,
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肤色,文化,饮食,风俗和服装,辅音的差别,
15:51
and still rally around a consensus.
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就此而言,仍然有和睦团结的共识。
15:54
And the consensus is of a very simple principle,
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而共识是一个非常简单的原则,
15:56
that in a diverse plural democracy like India
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在一个多元化的民主国家就像印度
16:00
you don't really have to agree on everything all the time,
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你真的不必在所有的时间同意每件事,
16:04
so long as you agree on the ground rules
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只要你对你将如何表达
16:06
of how you will disagree.
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不同意见的规则达成一致。
16:08
The great success story of India,
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印度伟大的成功故事,
16:10
a country that so many learned scholars and journalists
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一个国家,有这么多经验的学者和新闻工作者
16:13
assumed would disintegrate, in the '50s and '60s,
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假设即将瓦解,在五十年代,六十年代,
16:16
is that it managed to maintain consensus on how to survive without consensus.
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只要能够维持生存是没有共识的共识。
16:21
Now, that is the India that is emerging into the 21st century.
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今天,印度是以迈进21世纪。
16:25
And I do want to make the point
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我想要强调的是
16:27
that if there is anything worth celebrating about India,
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如果有什么可以使印度值得庆祝的事的话,
16:30
it isn't military muscle, economic power.
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它不是军事实力,经济实力。
16:32
All of that is necessary,
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所有这一切是必要的,
16:34
but we still have huge amounts of problems to overcome.
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但我们仍然有大量的问题需要克服。
16:37
Somebody said we are super poor, and we are also super power.
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有人说我们即是超级穷国,也是超级强国。
16:40
We can't really be both of those.
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我们不可能两者兼是。
16:42
We have to overcome our poverty. We have to deal with the
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我们必须克服我们的贫穷。我们必须处理
16:44
hardware of development,
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硬件的发展,
16:46
the ports, the roads, the airports,
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港口,道路,机场,
16:48
all the infrastructural things we need to do,
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我们需要做所有基础设施的事情,
16:50
and the software of development,
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和软件开发,
16:52
the human capital, the need for the ordinary person in India
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人力资本,用于在印度普通人的需要
16:56
to be able to have a couple of square meals a day,
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就是每一日三顿饭能吃得很丰盛,
16:59
to be able to send his or her children
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能够送他或她的孩子
17:01
to a decent school,
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去一个体面的学校,
17:03
and to aspire to work a job
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并有志投身工作
17:05
that will give them opportunities in their lives
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这可以帮助他们给育它们生活的机会
17:08
that can transform themselves.
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并且可以改变自己。
17:10
But, it's all taking place, this great adventure of conquering those challenges,
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但是,这一切的发生,这种伟大的冒险征服需要一种挑战,
17:14
those real challenges which none of us can pretend don't exist.
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这种挑战是不容我们可以假装不存在。
17:17
But, it's all taking place in an open society,
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并且,这一切都发生在一个开放的社会里,
17:20
in a rich and diverse and plural civilization,
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在一个丰富多样和多元文化当中,
17:23
in one that is determined to liberate and fulfill
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是一个是要解放和实现
17:26
the creative energies of its people.
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人民的创造力社会中。
17:28
That's why India belongs at TED,
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这就是为什么印度所属于TED,
17:31
and that's why TED belongs in India.
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这就是为什么TED所属于印度。
17:33
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
17:35
(Applause)
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(鼓掌声)
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