Why nations should pursue "soft" power | Shashi Tharoor

1,176,346 views ・ 2009-12-02

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譯者: Chia-Ho Lin 審譯者: Wang-Ju Tsai
00:15
As an Indian, and now as a politician
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身為一名印度人,一名政治家,
00:17
and a government minister,
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也是一名政府部長,
00:19
I've become rather concerned about
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我愈來愈關心
00:21
the hype we're hearing about our own country,
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關於自己國家的討論,
00:23
all this talk about India becoming a world leader,
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這些討論全是在談印度正成為世界領袖,
00:25
even the next superpower.
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甚至是下一個超級強權。
00:27
In fact, the American publishers of my book,
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事實上,美國出版商在我的書
00:29
"The Elephant, The Tiger and the Cell Phone,"
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《大象、老虎和手機》上,
00:31
added a gratuitous subtitle saying,
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多加了一行副標題,寫著
00:33
"India: The next 21st-century power."
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「印度:下一個21世紀強國」
00:35
And I just don't think that's what India's all about,
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但我認為,這無法涵蓋有關印度的所有層面,
00:37
or should be all about.
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而印度也不應只是如此。
00:39
Indeed, what worries me is the entire notion of world leadership
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真正使我擔憂的是,領導世界的概念
00:43
seems to me terribly archaic.
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在我看來早已過時,
00:45
It's redolent of James Bond movies
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讓人想到007電影
00:47
and Kipling ballads.
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和吉卜林的詩歌。
00:49
After all, what constitutes a world leader?
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成為世界領袖的要素究竟是什麼呢?
00:51
If it's population, we're on course to top the charts.
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若是人口,我們正邁向世界首位,
00:54
We will overtake China by 2034.
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2034年就會超越中國。
00:58
Is it military strength? Well, we have the world's fourth largest army.
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是軍事力量嗎?那我們有世界第四大的軍隊。
01:01
Is it nuclear capacity? We know we have that.
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是核子武器嗎?我們知道我們有,
01:03
The Americans have even recognized it,
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美國也已在一份協定當中
01:05
in an agreement.
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接受了這一點。
01:07
Is it the economy? Well, we have now
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是經濟力量嗎?我們是目前
01:09
the fifth-largest economy in the world
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世界第五大經濟體,
01:11
in purchasing power parity terms.
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這是按購買力平價計算的,
01:13
And we continue to grow. When the rest of the world took a beating last year,
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而且正持續成長。去年,其他國家面臨了重大衝擊,
01:16
we grew at 6.7 percent.
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我們卻成長了6.7%。
01:19
But, somehow, none of that adds up to me,
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但我仍覺得,這些都無法成為
01:23
to what I think India really can aim to contribute in the world,
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我心中印度真正能對這個世界,
01:28
in this part of the 21st century.
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這個21世紀作出的貢獻。
01:30
And so I wondered, could
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我想知道,
01:33
what the future beckons for India to be all about
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印度所邁向的未來,
01:36
be a combination of these things allied to something else,
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能否是上述事物與其他東西的結合,
01:39
the power of example,
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比方說,
01:41
the attraction of India's culture,
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印度文化的吸引力,
01:44
what, in other words, people like to call "soft power."
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也就是一般所說的「軟實力」。
01:49
Soft power is a concept invented by a Harvard academic,
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軟實力的概念是由一名哈佛學者所提出,
01:52
Joseph Nye, a friend of mine.
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他是約瑟夫‧奈,是我的朋友。
01:54
And, very simply, and I'm really cutting it short because of the time limits here,
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這個概念很簡單,因為時間關係,我就簡短解釋,
01:58
it's essentially the ability of a country to attract others
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軟實力基本上是一國吸引其他國家的能力,
02:01
because of its culture, its political values,
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這個吸引力來自其文化、其政治價值觀,
02:03
its foreign policies.
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以及外交政策。
02:05
And, you know, lots of countries do this. He was writing initially about the States,
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許多國家都在進行這項工作。他本來寫的是美國,
02:08
but we know the Alliance Francaise
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但我們知道法國文化協會
02:10
is all about French soft power, the British Council.
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就是法國的軟實力,英國文化協會亦然。
02:13
The Beijing Olympics were an exercise in Chinese soft power.
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北京奧運是中國軟實力的展現,
02:16
Americans have the Voice of America and the Fulbright scholarships.
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美國則有美國之聲和傅爾布萊特獎助學金。
02:20
But, the fact is, in fact,
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不過,事實上,
02:22
that probably Hollywood and MTV and McDonalds
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好萊塢、音樂電視網和麥當勞
02:25
have done more for American soft power
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對美國影響世界的軟實力作出的貢獻,
02:27
around the world than any specifically government activity.
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可能大過任何的政府活動。
02:30
So soft power is something that really emerges
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因此軟實力是真正展現出來的東西,
02:33
partly because of governments,
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部分是因為政府力量,
02:35
but partly despite governments.
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但部分則與政府無關。
02:37
And in the information era we all live in today,
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今天,我們生活在資訊時代中,
02:40
what we might call the TED age,
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我們或許稱其為TED時代,
02:43
I'd say that countries are increasingly being judged
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我會說國家逐漸受到
02:46
by a global public that's been fed
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來自全球大眾的評斷,
02:49
on an incessant diet of Internet news,
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人們每天不斷接收網路新聞、
02:52
of televised images,
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電視影像、
02:54
of cellphone videos, of email gossip.
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手機影片、電子郵件中的八卦流言,
02:57
In other words, all sorts of communication devices
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換句話說,各種通訊設備
03:00
are telling us the stories of countries,
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都在告訴我們各國的消息,
03:02
whether or not the countries concerned want people to hear those stories.
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不管這些國家是否願意讓人知道這些訊息。
03:07
Now, in this age, again, countries with access
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現在,在這個時代,同樣地,
03:09
to multiple channels of communication
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能夠增加溝通和資訊管道的國家,
03:11
and information have a particular advantage.
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就擁有特定的優勢,
03:13
And of course they have more influence, sometimes, about how they're seen.
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當然有時也較能影響別人對它們的看法。
03:17
India has more all-news TV channels
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印度的電視新聞頻道,
03:19
than any country in the world,
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比任一國家都還多,
03:21
in fact in most of the countries in this part of the world put together.
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實際上是多過世界各國所有的新聞頻道總數。
03:25
But, the fact still is that it's not just that.
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但這樣仍是不夠的。
03:27
In order to have soft power, you have to be connected.
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要擁有軟實力,就要與外界連結。
03:30
One might argue that India has become
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也許有人會說,印度已經成為
03:32
an astonishingly connected country.
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一個與外界達成驚人連結的國家。
03:34
I think you've already heard the figures.
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我想你們已經聽過這些數字,
03:36
We've been selling 15 million cellphones a month.
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我們每個月賣出1500萬支手機,
03:40
Currently there are 509 million cellphones
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目前印度有5.09億
03:43
in Indian hands, in India.
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手機用戶,
03:45
And that makes us larger than the U.S. as a telephone market.
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使印度電話市場大過美國。
03:49
In fact, those 15 million cellphones
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事實上,每月1500萬支手機的銷量,
03:52
are the most connections that any country,
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在任何一個國家,
03:54
including the U.S. and China,
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包括美國和中國,
03:56
has ever established in the history of telecommunications.
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在電信史上都不曾達成。
03:59
But, what perhaps some of you don't realize
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但也許有些人不明白,
04:01
is how far we've come to get there.
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我們花了多大力氣才有今天。
04:03
You know, when I grew up in India,
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要知道,我在印度長大,
04:05
telephones were a rarity.
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當時電話非常稀有,
04:07
In fact, they were so rare that elected members of Parliament
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少到當選的國會成員權利
04:09
had the right to allocate 15 telephone lines
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是可以把15條電話線
04:12
as a favor to those they deemed worthy.
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分送給他們認為重要的人。
04:14
If you were lucky enough to be a wealthy businessman
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如果你正好是名富商,
04:17
or an influential journalist, or a doctor or something, you might have a telephone.
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或是具影響力的記者、醫生等等,你或許就能有部電話。
04:20
But sometimes it just sat there.
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可是,有時候電話只能成為擺飾。
04:22
I went to high school in Calcutta.
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過去我在加爾各答讀高中,
04:24
And we would look at this instrument sitting in the front foyer.
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我們看著這台機器擺在玄關,
04:26
But half the time we would pick it up
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但當我們拿起話筒,
04:28
with an expectant look on our faces,
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一臉期待,
04:30
there would be no dial tone.
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話筒裡卻常常沒有撥號音。
04:32
If there was a dial tone and you dialed a number,
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如果聽見撥號音,你撥個號碼,
04:34
the odds were two in three you wouldn't get the number you were intending to reach.
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有三分之二的情況是你無法打到正確的地方,
04:38
In fact the words "wrong number" were more popular than the word "Hello."
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其實聽到「空號」的時候比聽到「哈囉」還多。
04:41
(Laughter)
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(笑)
04:42
If you then wanted to connect to another city,
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如果你想打電話到另一個城市,
04:44
let's say from Calcutta you wanted to call Delhi,
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例如從加爾各答打到德里,
04:46
you'd have to book something called a trunk call,
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你得打一種長途電話,
04:48
and then sit by the phone all day, waiting for it to come through.
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然後坐在電話旁一整天,等你的電話接通。
04:51
Or you could pay eight times the going rate
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或者你也可以付8倍的費率
04:54
for something called a lightning call.
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打「閃電通話」,
04:56
But, lightning struck rather slowly in our country in those days,
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不過在當時的印度,「閃電」的速度似乎也比較慢,
04:58
so, it was like about a half an hour for a lightning call to come through.
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所以「閃電通話」要接通也得花上半小時。
05:02
In fact, so woeful was our telephone service
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事實上,我們的電話服務
05:05
that a Member of Parliament stood up in 1984 and complained about this.
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差到曾有國會成員在1984年出聲抱怨。
05:09
And the Then-Communications Minister replied in a lordly manner
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當時的通訊部長高傲地回應,
05:12
that in a developing country
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表示在開發中國家,
05:14
communications are a luxury, not a right,
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通訊是奢侈品,而非權利,
05:16
that the government had no obligation to provide better service,
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政府沒有義務提供更好的服務。
05:20
and if the honorable Member wasn't satisfied with his telephone,
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如果這位仁兄不滿意他的電話,
05:22
could he please return it, since there was an eight-year-long waiting list
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能否請他繳回,
05:25
for telephones in India.
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因為印度還有一大票人排隊等著要。
05:28
Now, fast-forward to today and this is what you see:
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現在,快轉到今天的印度,
05:30
the 15 million cell phones a month.
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你們看到的是每月銷售1500萬支手機。
05:32
But what is most striking is who is carrying those cell phones.
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但是哪些人持有這些手機則是最讓人驚訝。
05:36
You know, if you visit friends in the suburbs of Delhi,
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你知道嗎,如果你到德里郊區去找朋友,
05:39
on the side streets you will find a fellow with a cart
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你會在小路上看到一名推著車的小伙子,
05:42
that looks like it was designed in the 16th century,
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車看起來像是16世紀的設計,
05:45
wielding a coal-fired steam iron
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手中使用的燃煤蒸汽熨斗
05:48
that might have been invented in the 18th century.
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則可能是18世紀發明的,
05:50
He's called an isthri wala. But he's carrying a 21st-century instrument.
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他被稱作isthri wala,但他卻帶著21世紀的工具,
05:53
He's carrying a cell phone because most incoming calls are free,
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他帶著一支手機,因為大部分來電是免費的,
05:56
and that's how he gets orders from the neighborhood,
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他就是靠手機來接當地的生意,
05:58
to know where to collect clothes to get them ironed.
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知道去哪收集要燙的衣服。
06:02
The other day I was in Kerala, my home state,
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有天我在家鄉喀拉拉,
06:05
at the country farm of a friend,
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到一名朋友的鄉下農莊,
06:07
about 20 kilometers away from any place you'd consider urban.
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離城鎮大約20公里遠,
06:11
And it was a hot day and he said, "Hey, would you like some fresh coconut water?"
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那天很熱,他問我:「嘿,想喝新鮮椰子水嗎?」
06:14
And it's the best thing and the most nutritious and refreshing thing you can drink
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在熱帶的夏天裡,那是最好、最營養清爽的飲料,
06:17
on a hot day in the tropics, so I said sure.
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所以我說好。
06:20
And he whipped out his cellphone, dialed the number,
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他掏出手機,撥了號碼,
06:22
and a voice said, "I'm up here."
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有個聲音說:「我就在上面。」
06:24
And right on top of the nearest coconut tree,
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接著就在最近的椰子樹上,
06:26
with a hatchet in one hand and a cell phone in the other,
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有個人一手拿著小斧,一手拿著手機,
06:29
was a local toddy tapper,
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是個當地賣椰子水的,
06:31
who proceeded to bring down the coconuts for us to drink.
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開始把椰子帶下來給我們喝。
06:34
Fishermen are going out to sea and carrying their cell phones.
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漁民出海時也帶著手機,
06:37
When they catch the fish they call all the market towns along the coast
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抓到魚的時候,他們就打電話給沿海的市集,
06:40
to find out where they get the best possible prices.
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看看哪裡可以賣到最好的價錢。
06:42
Farmers now, who used to have to spend half a day of backbreaking labor
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過去農人得辛苦大半天,
06:46
to find out if the market town was open,
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才能知道市集有沒有開,
06:48
if the market was on,
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如果開了,
06:50
whether the product they'd harvested could be sold, what price they'd fetch.
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還得知道他們的作物能不能賣、價格如何。
06:53
They'd often send an eight year old boy all the way on this trudge
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通常他們會派個8歲小男孩做這項苦差事,
06:56
to the market town to get that information and come back,
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先到市集去打聽消息,
06:58
then they'd load the cart.
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再回來裝載貨物。
07:00
Today they're saving half a day's labor with a two minute phone call.
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現在他們省了半天勞力,只要花兩分鐘打電話就好。
07:04
So this empowerment of the underclass
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這種下層階級的權力提升,
07:07
is the real result of India being connected.
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就是印度達成訊息連結的真正結果,
07:10
And that transformation is part of where India is heading today.
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而如此轉變,是今天印度邁向的目標之一。
07:15
But, of course that's not the only thing about India that's spreading.
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不過這當然不是印度唯一正在傳播的東西。
07:18
You've got Bollywood. My attitude to Bollywood is best summarized
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你們都聽過寶萊塢,我對寶萊塢的態度可以用
07:21
in the tale of the two goats at a Bollywood garbage dump --
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兩頭山羊在垃圾場的故事來約略說明─
07:24
Mr. Shekhar Kapur, forgive me --
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抱歉,夏喀爾‧喀普爾先生─
07:28
and they're chewing away on cans of celluloid discarded by a Bollywood studio.
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兩頭羊嚼著一罐寶萊塢電影院丟棄的膠卷。
07:32
And the first goat, chewing away, says, "You know, this film is not bad."
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一頭羊邊嚼邊說:「這電影不錯。」
07:35
And the second goat says, "No, the book was better."
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另一頭說:「不,我覺得書比較好。」
07:39
(Laughter)
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(笑)
07:45
I usually tend to think that the book is usually better,
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我一直認為書通常都比較好,
07:48
but, having said that,
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話雖如此,
07:50
the fact is that Bollywood is now
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其實寶萊塢現在
07:52
taking a certain aspect of Indian-ness and Indian culture around the globe,
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正藉著某方面在全球傳播印度特色和印度文化,
07:56
not just in the Indian diaspora in the U.S. and the U.K.,
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不只是在美國和英國的印度僑民之間散佈,
07:59
but to the screens of Arabs and Africans, of Senegalese and Syrians.
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也搬上了阿拉伯、非洲、塞內加爾和敘利亞的銀幕。
08:03
I've met a young man in New York whose illiterate mother
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我曾在紐約遇到一名年輕人,
08:06
in a village in Senegal
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他不識字的母親住在塞內加爾的村落,
08:08
takes a bus once a month to the capital city of Dakar,
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每個月搭一次公車到首都達卡,
08:11
just to watch a Bollywood movie.
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就為了看一部寶萊塢電影。
08:13
She can't understand the dialogue.
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她看不懂對白,
08:15
She's illiterate, so she can't read the French subtitles.
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因為不識字,所以她看不懂法文字幕。
08:18
But these movies are made to be understood despite such handicaps,
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不過就算是這樣的人,也一樣能了解電影內容,
08:21
and she has a great time in the song and the dance and the action.
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她非常享受片中的歌舞和動作,
08:24
She goes away with stars in her eyes about India, as a result.
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透過明星,她得到了關於印度的印象。
08:28
And this is happening more and more.
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現在,這種情況愈來愈多。
08:30
Afghanistan, we know what a serious security problem
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再說阿富汗,我們知道阿富汗對世上許多人來說
08:33
Afghanistan is for so many of us in the world.
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是如何嚴重的安全威脅,
08:36
India doesn't have a military mission there.
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而印度在那裡沒有駐軍。
08:38
You know what was India's biggest asset in Afghanistan in the last seven years?
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你知道過去7年,印度在阿富汗最大的資產是什麼嗎?
08:42
One simple fact:
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是這件事:
08:44
you couldn't try to call an Afghan at 8:30 in the evening.
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你無法在晚上8點半打電話給阿富汗人。
08:47
Why? Because that was the moment
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為什麼呢?
08:49
when the Indian television soap opera,
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因為那時是印度的電視連續劇,
08:51
"Kyunki Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahu Thi," dubbed into Dari, was telecast on Tolo T.V.
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[印度語]經過Dhurrie語配音後,在Todo頻道播出的時間。
08:57
And it was the most popular television show in Afghan history.
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那是阿富汗史上最受歡迎的電視節目,
09:00
Every Afghan family wanted to watch it.
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每個阿富汗家庭都想看,
09:02
They had to suspend functions at 8:30.
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他們的生活在8點半時完全停止運作,
09:04
Weddings were reported to be interrupted
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就連婚禮也會暫停,
09:07
so guests could cluster around the T.V. set,
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讓賓客可以聚在電視機前看節目,
09:09
and then turn their attention back to the bride and groom.
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結束後再把注意力轉回新人身上。
09:12
Crime went up at 8:30. I have read a Reuters dispatch --
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犯罪率在8點半時上升。我讀過一篇路透社的報導─
09:15
so this is not Indian propaganda, a British news agency --
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路透社是英國媒體,所以這不是印度的宣傳─
09:18
about how robbers in the town of Musarri Sharif*
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報導中提到,Musarri Sharif地方的搶匪
09:21
stripped a vehicle of its windshield wipers,
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如何偷走一輛車的雨刷、
09:24
its hubcaps, its sideview mirrors,
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輪蓋、側視鏡,
09:27
any moving part they could find, at 8:30,
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以及所有拿得走的東西。這都在8點半時發生,
09:30
because the watchmen were busy watching the T.V. rather than minding the store.
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因為守衛忙著看電視,沒有注意店鋪。
09:33
And they scrawled on the windshield in a reference to the show's heroine,
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搶匪還在擋風玻璃上寫跟劇中女主角有關的字句:
09:37
"Tulsi Zindabad": "Long live Tulsi."
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「Tulsi Zindabad」:「Tulsi萬歲」
09:40
(Laughter)
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(笑)
09:41
That's soft power. And that is what India is developing
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這就是軟實力,就是印度正透過
09:45
through the "E" part of TED:
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TED的「E」發展的東西:
09:47
its own entertainment industry.
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我們的娛樂(entertainment)產業。
09:49
The same is true, of course -- we don't have time for too many more examples --
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當然這也適用於其他部分─我們沒時間講太多例子─
09:52
but it's true of our music, of our dance,
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但我們的音樂、舞蹈、
09:55
of our art, yoga, ayurveda, even Indian cuisine.
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藝術、瑜珈、草藥醫學,甚至飲食都正發揮影響。
09:59
I mean, the proliferation of Indian restaurants
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像是印度料理餐廳大量增加的時候,
10:02
since I first went abroad as a student, in the mid '70s,
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我第一次到海外留學,那是1970年代中期。
10:05
and what I see today, you can't go to a mid-size town in Europe or North America
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現在就我所見,每個歐洲或美國的中型城鎮,
10:09
and not find an Indian restaurant. It may not be a very good one.
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都能找到一間印度料理店,雖然可能不是很道地。
10:12
But, today in Britain, for example,
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不過,以現在的英國為例,
10:14
Indian restaurants in Britain
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在英國,印度餐廳
10:17
employ more people than the coal mining,
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雇用的人手比採煤、
10:19
ship building and iron and steel industries combined.
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造船、鋼鐵工業等的雇員加起來還多,
10:22
So the empire can strike back.
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這樣帝國還能反擊嗎?
10:24
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
10:31
But, with this increasing awareness of India,
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但是,伴隨人們對印度漸增的興趣、
10:33
with yoga and ayurveda, and so on,
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伴隨你我和眾人、
10:35
with tales like Afghanistan,
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伴隨在阿富汗發生的故事而來的,
10:37
comes something vital in the information era,
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是在這個資訊時代的重要訊息,
10:40
the sense that in today's world
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也就是在當今世界,
10:43
it's not the side of the bigger army that wins,
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不是擁有強大軍隊的一方勝利,
10:46
it's the country that tells a better story that prevails.
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而是故事說得比較好的國家,才能獨領風騷。
10:49
And India is, and must remain, in my view, the land of the better story.
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我認為,印度是是故事比較好的國家,而且必須保持。
10:54
Stereotypes are changing. I mean, again, having gone to the U.S.
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刻板印象正在改變。這裡要再次提到,
10:57
as a student in the mid '70s,
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作為一名在1970年代中期的留美學生,
10:59
I knew what the image of India was then, if there was an image at all.
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如果印度曾給人一種印象,我知道那印象是什麼。
11:02
Today, people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere
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現在,矽谷和其他地方的人
11:05
speak of the IITs, the Indian Institutes of Technology
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談到IITs,也就是印度理工學院,
11:08
with the same reverence they used to accord to MIT.
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就像他們談及麻省理工時一樣推崇。
11:12
This can sometimes have unintended consequences. OK.
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這有時候會造成一些意外的情況。
11:14
I had a friend, a history major like me,
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我有個朋友,跟我一樣主修歷史,
11:17
who was accosted at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam,
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在阿姆斯特丹的史基浦機場,
11:20
by an anxiously perspiring European saying,
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有個急得滿頭大汗的歐洲人跑去問他:
11:22
"You're Indian, you're Indian! Can you help me fix my laptop?"
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「你是印度人!你是印度人!可以幫我修理筆電嗎?」
11:25
(Laughter)
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(笑)
11:27
We've gone from the image of India as
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印度的形象,
11:30
land of fakirs lying on beds of nails,
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已經從躺在釘床上的苦行僧,
11:33
and snake charmers with the Indian rope trick,
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還有表演繩索特技的弄蛇人,
11:36
to the image of India as a land of mathematical geniuses,
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變成印度充滿數學天才、
11:39
computer wizards, software gurus.
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電腦奇才、軟體專家,
11:41
But that too is transforming the Indian story around the world.
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但這也改變了印度在世界各地的故事。
11:46
But, there is something more substantive to that.
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不過,除此之外,還有更重要的東西。
11:48
The story rests on a fundamental platform
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印度的故事建立在一個基礎上,
11:50
of political pluralism.
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也就是政治多元化。
11:52
It's a civilizational story to begin with.
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這是個印度逐漸邁向文明的故事。
11:54
Because India has been an open society for millennia.
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因為千年以來,印度一直是個開放的社會,
11:59
India gave refuge to the Jews, fleeing the destruction of the first temple
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印度給予猶太人庇護,他們從摧毀第一聖殿的
12:04
by the Babylonians, and said thereafter by the Romans.
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巴比倫人手中逃離,後來又據說是從羅馬人那裡逃離。
12:07
In fact, legend has is that when Doubting Thomas, the Apostle, Saint Thomas,
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事實上,傳說事事懷疑的湯瑪斯,使徒聖湯瑪斯
12:12
landed on the shores of Kerala, my home state,
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在我的家鄉喀拉拉沿海上岸的時候,
12:14
somewhere around 52 A.D.,
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那時大概是西元52年,
12:16
he was welcomed on shore by a flute-playing Jewish girl.
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有個吹笛的猶太女孩在岸邊歡迎他。
12:19
And to this day remains the only Jewish diaspora
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到今天,這是唯一一個
12:23
in the history of the Jewish people, which has never encountered
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在猶太人歷史上,
12:25
a single incident of anti-semitism.
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從未發生反猶太事件的猶太僑居地。
12:28
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
12:34
That's the Indian story.
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這就是印度的故事,
12:36
Islam came peacefully to the south,
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伊斯蘭教和平來到南方,
12:38
slightly more differently complicated history in the north.
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北方的歷史則是稍微複雜了點,
12:40
But all of these religions have found a place and a welcome home in India.
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但是,這些宗教全都在印度找到安身之所。
12:45
You know, we just celebrated, this year, our general elections,
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今年我們剛舉行過大選,
12:48
the biggest exercise in democratic franchise in human history.
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那是人類史上規模最大的民主活動,
12:51
And the next one will be even bigger, because our voting population
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且下一次的規模還會更大,因為我們的投票人口
12:53
keeps growing by 20 million a year.
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每年增加2000萬人。
12:56
But, the fact is
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但事實上,
12:58
that the last elections, five years ago,
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上一次的大選,那是在五年前,
13:00
gave the world extraordinary phenomenon
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讓全世界看見過去沒有的景象,
13:02
of an election being won by a woman political leader
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由女性政治領袖贏得選舉,
13:06
of Italian origin and Roman Catholic faith, Sonia Gandhi,
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她是義大利裔的天主教徒,桑妮雅‧甘地,
13:09
who then made way for a Sikh, Mohan Singh,
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讓信仰錫克教的曼莫漢‧辛格
13:12
to be sworn in as Prime Minister
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當上印度總理,
13:14
by a Muslim, President Abdul Kalam,
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而且是經由身為穆斯林的總統卡蘭手中,
13:17
in a country 81 percent Hindu.
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在印度教徒占總人口81%的國家上任。
13:19
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:28
This is India, and of course it's all the more striking
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這就是印度,而且這相當引人注意,
13:31
because it was four years later that we all applauded
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因為四年後,我們都稱讚美國,
13:33
the U.S., the oldest democracy in the modern world,
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這個現代世界實行民主最久的國家,
13:37
more than 220 years of free and fair elections,
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實施超過220年的自由公平選舉,
13:40
which took till last year to elect a president or a vice president
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但一直要到去年的選舉,
13:44
who wasn't white, male or Christian.
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才打破“白人男性基督徒”的慣例。
13:46
So, maybe -- oh sorry, he is Christian, I beg your pardon --
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所以,也許─噢抱歉,他是基督徒,原諒我說錯了─
13:49
and he is male, but he isn't white.
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而且他是男的,不過他不是白人。
13:51
All the others have been all those three.
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其他美國總統都包含那三項條件。
13:53
(Laughter)
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(笑)
13:55
All his predecessors have been all those three,
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在他之前的美國總統都包含這三點,
13:57
and that's the point I was trying to make.
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這才是我剛剛想說的重點。
13:59
(Laughter)
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(笑)
14:00
But, the issue is
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但是,問題是,
14:02
that when I talked about that example,
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我舉了這個例子,
14:04
it's not just about talking about India, it's not propaganda.
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不只是在談論印度,不是在幫印度宣傳。
14:09
Because ultimately, that electoral outcome
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因為到最後,選舉的結果
14:12
had nothing to do with the rest of the world.
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跟其他國家毫無關係,
14:14
It was essentially India being itself.
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本質上是關於印度本身。
14:16
And ultimately, it seems to me,
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而且最終,在我看來,
14:18
that always works better than propaganda.
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這似乎比刻意宣傳更有效。
14:20
Governments aren't very good at telling stories.
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各國政府不太擅長說故事,
14:23
But people see a society for what it is,
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但是人們看到的是真實的社會,
14:25
and that, it seems to me, is what ultimately
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而我認為,這才能夠
14:27
will make a difference in today's information era,
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影響今天的資訊時代,
14:31
in today's TED age.
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影響這個TED年代。
14:33
So India now is no longer
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所以現在的印度,已不再
14:36
the nationalism of ethnicity or language or religion,
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秉持種族、語言或宗教的民族主義,
14:40
because we have every ethnicity known to mankind, practically,
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因為我們的人民幾乎涵蓋所有種族,
14:42
we've every religion know to mankind,
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我們也有世界上所有的宗教,
14:44
with the possible exception of Shintoism,
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只有神道教可能例外,
14:46
though that has some Hindu elements somewhere.
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雖然那其中包含一些印度教的成分。
14:49
We have 23 official languages that are recognized in our Constitution.
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我們的憲法中規定了23種官方語言,
14:54
And those of you who cashed your money here
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曾在這裡換過現金的人,
14:56
might be surprised to see how many scripts there are
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也許會嚇到,因為盧比上寫了
14:59
on the rupee note, spelling out the denominations.
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許多種語言,全是用來表示面額。
15:01
We've got all of that.
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我們擁有的就是這些。
15:03
We don't even have geography uniting us,
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我們甚至沒有地理條件來幫助我們團結,
15:05
because the natural geography of the subcontinent
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因為次大陸的地理環境
15:08
framed by the mountains and the sea was hacked
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被山與海包圍,而這個外框
15:10
by the partition with Pakistan in 1947.
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在1947年被巴基斯坦的分裂打破。
15:13
In fact, you can't even take the name of the country for granted,
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事實上,你甚至不能把這個國家的名字看作理所當然。
15:16
because the name "India" comes from the river Indus,
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因為「印度」這個名稱來自印度河,
15:18
which flows in Pakistan.
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而印度河位於巴基斯坦境內。
15:20
But, the whole point is that India
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但是,重點是印度
15:23
is the nationalism of an idea.
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是一個民族主義的概念。
15:25
It's the idea of an ever-ever-land,
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這個概念是一片無垠的土地,
15:28
emerging from an ancient civilization,
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源自一種古老的文明,
15:30
united by a shared history,
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因為共同的歷史而結合,
15:32
but sustained, above all, by pluralist democracy.
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但最重要的是透過多元民主來長遠發展。
15:35
That is a 21st-century story as well as an ancient one.
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這是個21世紀的故事,也是個古老的故事。
15:39
And it's the nationalism of an idea that
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而且這個民族主義的概念,
15:42
essentially says you can endure differences of caste, creed,
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主張的是你可以包容各種差異,包括種姓、宗教、
15:46
color, culture, cuisine, custom and costume, consonant, for that matter,
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膚色、文化、飲食、風俗、服裝、子音等等,
15:51
and still rally around a consensus.
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而且仍然團結,具有共識。
15:54
And the consensus is of a very simple principle,
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這個共識是個很簡單的原則,
15:56
that in a diverse plural democracy like India
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就是在像印度一樣複雜多元的民主制度中,
16:00
you don't really have to agree on everything all the time,
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你並不需要同意每一件事,
16:04
so long as you agree on the ground rules
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只要你遵守基本的規則,
16:06
of how you will disagree.
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知道如何表達你的不同意。
16:08
The great success story of India,
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印度,
16:10
a country that so many learned scholars and journalists
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這個在1950和60年代,被許多學者專家和新聞工作者
16:13
assumed would disintegrate, in the '50s and '60s,
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認為會瓦解的國家,其成功的故事在於
16:16
is that it managed to maintain consensus on how to survive without consensus.
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印度努力維持了一項共識,就是「如何在沒有共識中生存」。
16:21
Now, that is the India that is emerging into the 21st century.
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現在在21世紀崛起的國家是印度,
16:25
And I do want to make the point
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而我要在此強調,
16:27
that if there is anything worth celebrating about India,
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如果印度有什麼值得讚美的東西,
16:30
it isn't military muscle, economic power.
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那絕非軍事或經濟的力量。
16:32
All of that is necessary,
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那些都是必要的,
16:34
but we still have huge amounts of problems to overcome.
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但我們仍有成堆的問題尚待解決。
16:37
Somebody said we are super poor, and we are also super power.
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有些人說我們是超級窮國,也是超級強權,
16:40
We can't really be both of those.
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而我們不可能真的身兼二者。
16:42
We have to overcome our poverty. We have to deal with the
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我們必須擺脫貧窮,必須解決
16:44
hardware of development,
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國家發展的硬體建設問題,
16:46
the ports, the roads, the airports,
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像是港口、道路、機場,
16:48
all the infrastructural things we need to do,
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這些我們必須進行的公共建設,
16:50
and the software of development,
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以及軟體方面,
16:52
the human capital, the need for the ordinary person in India
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例如人力資本,例如讓一般印度人民
16:56
to be able to have a couple of square meals a day,
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可以每天吃得飽足,
16:59
to be able to send his or her children
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有能力送他/她的子女
17:01
to a decent school,
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上一間好學校,
17:03
and to aspire to work a job
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並且有志得到一份
17:05
that will give them opportunities in their lives
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能在他們生命中,
17:08
that can transform themselves.
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讓他們有機會翻身的工作。
17:10
But, it's all taking place, this great adventure of conquering those challenges,
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但是,我們必須克服這些挑戰,這是一項大工程,
17:14
those real challenges which none of us can pretend don't exist.
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我們不能假裝這些真正的挑戰不存在。
17:17
But, it's all taking place in an open society,
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這一切都發生在一個開放的社會中,
17:20
in a rich and diverse and plural civilization,
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在一個富裕、歧異而多元的文明當中,
17:23
in one that is determined to liberate and fulfill
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這個社會必定要釋放並滿足
17:26
the creative energies of its people.
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人民的創意能量。
17:28
That's why India belongs at TED,
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這就是印度為何屬於TED,
17:31
and that's why TED belongs in India.
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也是TED為何屬於印度。
17:33
Thank you very much.
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非常謝謝大家。
17:35
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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