How to have better political conversations | Robb Willer

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Joanna Pietrulewicz

翻译人员: Jiawei Ni 校对人员: Lisa Qin

So you probably have the sense, as most people do,

你可能会有和大部分人一样的想法,

that polarization is getting worse in our country,

意识到我们国家的两级分化越来越严重,

that the divide between the left and the right

左派与右派之间的隔阂

is as bad as it's been in really any of our lifetimes.

从来没有像现在这么糟过。

But you might also reasonably wonder if research backs up your intuition.

但你可能也想过 你的直觉是否被研究证实过。

And in a nutshell, the answer is sadly yes.

一言以蔽之，答案可惜是肯定的.

In study after study, we find

在反复研究后,我们发现

that liberals and conservatives have grown further apart.

自由派和保守派已渐行渐远。

They increasingly wall themselves off in these ideological silos,

他们把自己关在意识形态的巨塔中,

consuming different news, talking only to like-minded others

看不同的新闻，只跟同类人讲话,

and more and more choosing to live in different parts of the country.

而且越来越倾向住在不同的国家.

And I think that most alarming of all of it

我认为最令人担忧的

is seeing this rising animosity on both sides.

是两边兴起的敌意.

Liberals and conservatives,

自由派与保守派,

Democrats and Republicans,

民主党与共和党,

more and more they just don't like one another.

他们越来越不喜欢对方。

You see it in many different ways.

你在很多方面都能观察到这件事。

They don't want to befriend one another. They don't want to date one another.

他们不想和对方做朋友。 他们不想和对方约会。

If they do, if they find out, they find each other less attractive,

即使约了，如果发现彼此立场不同， 就觉得对方不像之前那么有吸引力，

and they more and more don't want their children to marry someone

同时也越来越不想让他们的孩子

who supports the other party,

和另一个党派的人结婚。

a particularly shocking statistic.

这项统计特别令人震惊。

You know, in my lab, the students that I work with,

你知道吗，在我的实验室， 我与共事的学生

we're talking about some sort of social pattern --

常常会聊一些社会模式

I'm a movie buff, and so I'm often like,

我是个电影痴，我常常这样想，

what kind of movie are we in here with this pattern?

在这种情况下，我们的哪部电影里有这样的模式？

So what kind of movie are we in with political polarization?

那么，哪部电影里有政治两级分化的情况？

Well, it could be a disaster movie.

嗯， 可能是灾难电影。

It certainly seems like a disaster.

它确实看起来绝对像一场灾难。

Could be a war movie.

可能是一场战争电影。

Also fits.

也合情合理。

But what I keep thinking is that we're in a zombie apocalypse movie.

但我认为可能是像《僵尸启示录》这部电影。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Right? You know the kind.

对吧？你知道那种电影的。

There's people wandering around in packs,

人们成群结对的四处漫游，

not thinking for themselves,

不为他们自已着想，

seized by this mob mentality

服从的从众心理

trying to spread their disease and destroy society.

试着散播疾病，摧毁社会。

And you probably think, as I do,

你可能在想，像我一样，

that you're the good guy in the zombie apocalypse movie,

你是《僵尸启示录》中是个好人，

and all this hate and polarization, it's being propagated by the other people,

而所有这样的仇恨和极化， 都可能会被其他人所传播着

because we're Brad Pitt, right?

因为我们是布拉德·皮特，对吧？ （在僵尸启示录中饰演 “好人”）

Free-thinking, righteous,

自由思辨，充满正义，

just trying to hold on to what we hold dear,

只坚持我们所相信的，

you know, not foot soldiers in the army of the undead.

你知道的，不像亡灵战士，

Not that.

绝对不是。

Never that.

永远不是。

But here's the thing:

但你想想：

what movie do you suppose they think they're in?

你觉得他们在哪部电影里呢？

Right?

对吧？

Well, they absolutely think that they're the good guys

他们绝对相信他们在电影里

in the zombie apocalypse movie. Right?

是正义的一方，对吧？

And you'd better believe that they think that they're Brad Pitt

他们觉得自己是布拉德·皮特。

and that we, we are the zombies.

而我们，是那群僵尸。

And who's to say that they're wrong?

而谁又能说他们是错的呢？

I think that the truth is that we're all a part of this.

我觉得事实是 我们都是其中的一部分。

And the good side of that is that we can be a part of the solution.

而好的一方面就是我们 都能成为解决方案的一部分。

So what are we going to do?

所以，我们要做什么呢？

What can we do to chip away at polarization in everyday life?

我们在日常生活中要怎麽做 才能逐渐弥合两极化？

What could we do to connect with and communicate with

我们要怎麽做才能

our political counterparts?

与我们的政治立场不同的人 建立关系与对话？

Well, these were exactly the questions that I and my colleague, Matt Feinberg,

这正是我与我的同事麦特．范柏格

became fascinated with a few years ago,

在几年前开始热衷的问题，

and we started doing research on this topic.

然后我们开始做研究。

And one of the first things that we discovered

我们最初发现的几件事之一

that I think is really helpful for understanding polarization

也是我觉得很重要的

is to understand

就是我们必须了解

that the political divide in our country is undergirded by a deeper moral divide.

我国的政治分歧来自于 根深蒂固的道德分歧。

So one of the most robust findings in the history of political psychology

政治心理学史上 有一项确凿的发现，

is this pattern identified by Jon Haidt and Jesse Graham,

由乔恩．海特及杰西．格蓝发现的模型，

psychologists,

这两位是心理学家，

that liberals and conservatives tend to endorse different values

他们发现自由派及保守派 倾向对不同的价值观

to different degrees.

有不同程度的支持。

So for example, we find that liberals tend to endorse values like equality

举个例子，我们发现自由派 倾向于认同平等、公平、

and fairness and care and protection from harm

关怀和保护免受伤害等价值观，

more than conservatives do.

其程度比保守派更大。

And conservatives tend to endorse values like loyalty, patriotism,

保守派则倾向于忠诚、爱国、

respect for authority and moral purity

尊重权威及道德纯洁等，

more than liberals do.

比自由派比例更高。

And Matt and I were thinking that maybe this moral divide

麦特和我认为或许这是种道德分歧，

might be helpful for understanding how it is

这可能会更帮助了解

that liberals and conservatives talk to one another

自由派与保守派之间的对话模式

and why they so often seem to talk past one another

以及为什么他们在对话时

when they do.

好像鸡同鸭讲。

So we conducted a study

所以我们做了一项研究，

where we recruited liberals to a study

我们招募自由派来做一项研究

where they were supposed to write a persuasive essay

他们应该要写一篇议论文

that would be compelling to a conservative in support of same-sex marriage.

吸引保守人士支持同性婚姻。

And what we found was that liberals tended to make arguments

我们发现自由派往往

in terms of the liberal moral values of equality and fairness.

用自由派的道德价值观， 如平等及公平来论述。

So they said things like,

所以他们会说出像这样的话：

"Everyone should have the right to love whoever they choose,"

“每个人都应该有权利 爱他们选择的人。”

and, "They" -- they being gay Americans --

而且，“他们” （指同性恋）

"deserve the same equal rights as other Americans."

“应与其他美国人享有 同样的平等权利。”

Overall, we found that 69 percent of liberals

总体而言，我们发现 69% 的自由派

invoked one of the more liberal moral values in constructing their essay,

会引用偏向自由派的道德 价值观来写论文，

and only nine percent invoked one of the more conservative moral values,

只有 9% 会引用 偏向保守派的道德价值观，

even though they were supposed to be trying to persuade conservatives.

即使他们应该要试着说服保守派。

And when we studied conservatives and had them make persuasive arguments

在我们研究保守人士时， 要他们写具有说服力的论据

in support of making English the official language of the US,

支持让英语成为美国官方语言时，

a classically conservative political position,

一个很经典的保守派政治立场，

we found that they weren't much better at this.

他们的表现也不尽人意。

59 percent of them made arguments

59% 的人论述时，

in terms of one of the more conservative moral values,

引用偏向保守派的道德价值观，

and just eight percent invoked a liberal moral value,

只有 8% 引用了 自由派的道德价值观，

even though they were supposed to be targeting liberals for persuasion.

尽管他们说服的目标 应该是自由派人士。

Now, you can see right away why we're in trouble here. Right?

现在，你就了解为什么 我们有这种两极化问题，对吧？

People's moral values, they're their most deeply held beliefs.

人们的道德价值观 是他们最坚信不移的信念。

People are willing to fight and die for their values.

人们愿意为了价值观战斗、牺牲性命。

Why are they going to give that up just to agree with you

为什么他们要放弃价值观 只为了获得你的认同

on something that they don't particularly want to agree with you on anyway?

更何况他们本来就不是特别同意某些事情？

If that persuasive appeal that you're making to your Republican uncle

如果你对资深共和党提出说服的呼吁

means that he doesn't just have to change his view,

意味着他不仅仅是需要改变他的想法，

he's got to change his underlying values, too,

还要改变他最深层的价值观，

that's not going to go very far.

那是不太可能的事情。

So what would work better?

所以怎么做才有用？

Well, we believe it's a technique that we call moral reframing,

嗯，我们相信有个方法， 我们称之为道德重塑框架

and we've studied it in a series of experiments.

我们对此用一系列的实验来研究。

In one of these experiments,

在其中一项实验中，

we recruited liberals and conservatives to a study

我们招募自由派及保守派 来做一个研究，

where they read one of three essays

他们先读三篇论文中的一篇，

before having their environmental attitudes surveyed.

读完之后对他们做环境态度调查。

And the first of these essays

其中的第一篇论文

was a relatively conventional pro-environmental essay

是比较常见的支持环保派文章，

that invoked the liberal values of care and protection from harm.

运用自由派关怀 及保护不受伤害等价值观。

It said things like, "In many important ways

它会这样说： “从很多重要方面来看，

we are causing real harm to the places we live in,"

我们都在对自己生活的地方 造成严重的危害。“

and, "It is essential that we take steps now

以及：“我们现在就必须采取行动，

to prevent further destruction from being done to our Earth."

以避免对地球造成进一步的毁坏。“

Another group of participants

另外一组参加者

were assigned to read a really different essay

则被指派阅读一份截然不同的论文，

that was designed to tap into the conservative value of moral purity.

专为保守派道德纯洁的价值而打造。

It was a pro-environmental essay as well,

它也是一份支持环保的论文，

and it said things like,

而且它是这样说的：

"Keeping our forests, drinking water, and skies pure is of vital importance."

“让我们的森林、饮水及天空 保持纯淨是非常重要的。”

"We should regard the pollution

“我们所居住的环境污染

of the places we live in to be disgusting."

是极其糟糕的。“

And, "Reducing pollution can help us preserve

“减少环境污染可以帮助和保护

what is pure and beautiful about the places we live."

我们所居住的环境的纯净而美丽。”

And then we had a third group

然后我们指派第三组人

that were assigned to read just a nonpolitical essay.

读一份与政治无关的论文。

It was just a comparison group so we could get a baseline.

这只是一个对照组， 让我们有基准线。

And what we found when we surveyed people

发现当我们调查

about their environmental attitudes afterwards,

在他们读过后对环境的态度，

we found that liberals, it didn't matter what essay they read.

我们发现对自由派， 给他们读什么论文不重要。

They tended to have highly pro-environmental attitudes regardless.

无论如何他们都倾向支持环境态度。

Liberals are on board for environmental protection.

自由派一直都在支持环保。

Conservatives, however,

然而，保守派人士

were significantly more supportive of progressive environmental policies

会更支持激进的环境政策

and environmental protection

及环境保护，

if they had read the moral purity essay

如果之前让他们读的 是道德纯洁的论文，

than if they read one of the other two essays.

效果会比另外两篇更好。

We even found that conservatives who read the moral purity essay

我们甚至发现读过 道德纯洁短论的保守派，

were significantly more likely to say that they believed in global warming

更有可能说他们相信全球变暖

and were concerned about global warming,

及担心全球暖化，

even though this essay didn't even mention global warming.

即使论文中根本没有提到全球暖化。

That's just a related environmental issue.

那只是相关的环保问题。

But that's how robust this moral reframing effect was.

可见道德重新框架的效应。

And we've studied this on a whole slew of different political issues.

我们已对一系列不同的政治议题做过同样的研究

So if you want to move conservatives

所以如果你想促进保守人士

on issues like same-sex marriage or national health insurance,

更支持同性婚姻或全民健保等议题

it helps to tie these liberal political issues to conservative values

把这些自由派政治议题与保守派价值观，

like patriotism and moral purity.

如爱国或道德纯洁联系起来会更有帮助。

And we studied it the other way, too.

我们对另一边也做过同样的研究。

If you want to move liberals to the right on conservative policy issues

如果你想让自由派倾右 支持保守派政治议题，

like military spending and making English the official language of the US,

如军费及让英语成为美国的官方语言，

you're going to be more persuasive

你将会更具说服力，

if you tie those conservative policy issues to liberal moral values

只要你把这些保守政治议题 与自由派道德价值观相联系

like equality and fairness.

如平等及公平连在一起。

All these studies have the same clear message:

这些研究都显示出同样的明确信息：

if you want to persuade someone on some policy,

如果你想说服某人支持某项政策，

it's helpful to connect that policy to their underlying moral values.

把该项政策与某人的基本道德价值 连在一起会有帮助。

And when you say it like that

这样说好像

it seems really obvious. Right?

非常简单明了是吗？

Like, why did we come here tonight?

那我们今天晚上还来这里做什么？

Why --

为什么呢？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It's incredibly intuitive.

这个概念很容易被直观理解。

And even though it is, it's something we really struggle to do.

即便如此，这真的很难做到。

You know, it turns out that when we go to persuade somebody on a political issue,

你知道，事实是当我们 想说服某人某项政治议题时，

we talk like we're speaking into a mirror.

就好像我们在对着镜子讲话。

We don't persuade so much as we rehearse our own reasons

即便排练我们的理由 我们还说服不了那么多人

for why we believe some sort of political position.

只说自己相信某项政治立场。

We kept saying when we were designing these reframed moral arguments,

我们一直在说要设计道德重塑框架的论述，

"Empathy and respect, empathy and respect."

“同理心及尊重， 同理心及尊重。”

If you can tap into that,

如果你能记住这点，

you can connect

你就能连接价值观

and you might be able to persuade somebody in this country.

或许这样你就能说服这个国家一些人。

So thinking again

所以再想一下

about what movie we're in,

我们正在演出哪部电影，

maybe I got carried away before.

可能我说的感同身受.

Maybe it's not a zombie apocalypse movie.

可能不是《僵尸启示录》类的片子

Maybe instead it's a buddy cop movie.

可能比较像警察搭档片。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Just roll with it, just go with it please.

再忍一下，再撑一下就好。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You know the kind: there's a white cop and a black cop,

你知道有种电影，通常有个 白人警察和黑人警察，

or maybe a messy cop and an organized cop.

或者一个粗心大意的警察 和一个一丝不苟的警察。

Whatever it is, they don't get along

不管什么组合，他们都处不好，

because of this difference.

因为两者之间的差异。

But in the end, when they have to come together and they cooperate,

但到了最后他们必须一起合作时，

the solidarity that they feel,

让两者感到的团结力量更大，

it's greater because of that gulf that they had to cross. Right?

变得更好的原因是必须跨越鸿沟，对吧？

And remember that in these movies,

要记得在这些电影里，

it's usually worst in the second act

通常转折前的情况会很糟，

when our leads are further apart than ever before.

主角完全水火不容。

And so maybe that's where we are in this country,

或许这正是我们国家现在的写照。

late in the second act of a buddy cop movie --

稍后在警探搭档片的转折处

(Laughter)

（笑声）

torn apart but about to come back together.

被撕裂成两半， 但就快要弥合在一起了。

It sounds good,

说的好听，

but if we want it to happen,

但是如果我们真的想让它实现，

I think the responsibility is going to start with us.

我想责任就从我们开始。

So this is my call to you:

所以这是我对大家的呼吁：

let's put this country back together.

让我们使这个国家再团结起来。

Let's do it despite the politicians

不管政治人物

and the media and Facebook and Twitter

媒体、脸书、推特

and Congressional redistricting

及选区重划

and all of it, all the things that divide us.

包括所有那些分裂我们的东西。

Let's do it because it's right.

我们开始做正确的事情。

And let's do it because this hate and contempt

因为这仇恨和蔑视

that flows through all of us every day

每天在我们之间流窜着，

makes us ugly and it corrupts us,

让我们面目狰狞，腐蚀着我们，

and it threatens the very fabric of our society.

威胁着我们的社会结构。

We owe it to one another and our country

我们亏欠彼此与这个国家

to reach out and try to connect.

试着去沟通及连结。

We can't afford to hate them any longer,

我们没有时间再仇视别人了，

and we can't afford to let them hate us either.

也没有时间让别人仇视我们了

Empathy and respect.

共情与尊重。

Empathy and respect.

共情与尊重。

If you think about it, it's the very least that we owe our fellow citizens.

如果你仔细想想， 这是我们亏欠同胞的。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）