In praise of conflict | Jonathan Marks

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

Twenty years ago,

Pre dvadeset godina,

when I was a barrister and human rights lawyer

kad sam bio advokat i pravnik za ljudska prava

in full-time legal practice in London,

stalno zaposlen u Londonu

and the highest court in the land

u najvišem sudu u zemlji

still convened, some would say by an accident of history,

koji i dalje zaseda, neki bi rekli zbog istorijske greške,

in this building here,

u ovoj zgradi ovde,

I met a young man who had just quit his job

upoznao sam mladića koji je upravo dao otkaz

in the British Foreign Office.

u britanskom ministarstvu spoljnih poslova.

When I asked him, "Why did you leave,"

Kad sam ga upitao: "Zašto si dao otkaz",

he told me this story.

ispričao mi je ovu priču.

He had gone to his boss one morning and said,

Jednog jutra je otišao kod šefa i rekao:

"Let's do something about human rights abuses in China."

"Hajde da nešto preduzmemo povodom kršenja ljudskih prava u Kini."

And his boss had replied,

A njegov šef je odgovorio:

"Ne možemo uraditi bilo šta zbog kršenja ljudskih prava u Kini

"We can't do anything about human rights abuses in China

because we have trade relations with China."

jer imamo trgovinske odnose s Kinom."

So my friend went away with his tail between his legs,

Pa je moj prijatelj otišao povijenog repa

and six months later, he returned again to his boss,

i šest meseci kasnije ponovo se vratio kod šefa,

and he said this time,

a ovaj put je rekao:

"Let's do something about human rights in Burma,"

"Preduzmimo nešto povodom ljudskih prava u Burmi",

as it was then called.

kako se tada zvala.

His boss once again paused

Njegov šef je ponovo zastao

and said, "Oh, but we can't do anything about human rights in Burma

i rekao: "Oh, ali ne možemo da uradimo bilo šta povodom ljudskih prava u Burmi

because we don't have any trade relations with Burma."

jer nemamo bilo kakve trgovinske odnose s Burmom."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

This was the moment he knew he had to leave.

Ovo je bio trenutak kad je znao da mora da ide.

It wasn't just the hypocrisy that got to him.

Nije ga samo licemerje dotuklo.

It was the unwillingness of his government

Radilo se o nespremnosti njegove vlade

to engage in conflict with other governments,

da uđe u knflikt s drugim vladama,

in tense discussions,

u žestoke rasprave,

all the while, innocent people were being harmed.

dok sve vreme nevini ljudi ispaštaju.

We are constantly told

Stalno nam govore

that conflict is bad

da je konflikt loš,

that compromise is good;

a da je kompromis dobar;

that conflict is bad

da je konflikt loš,

but consensus is good;

ali da je konsenzus dobar;

that conflict is bad

da je konflikt loš,

and collaboration is good.

a saradnja je dobra.

But in my view,

Međutim, po mom mišljenju,

that's far too simple a vision of the world.

to je suviše pojednostavljeno viđenje sveta.

We cannot know

Ne možemo da znamo

whether conflict is bad

da li je konflikt loš,

unless we know who is fighting,

dok ne znamo ko se bori,

why they are fighting

zbog čega se bori

and how they are fighting.

i kako se bori.

And compromises can be thoroughly rotten

A kompromisi mogu da budu u potpunosti truli,

if they harm people who are not at the table,

ako povređuju ljude koji ne donose odluke,

people who are vulnerable, disempowered,

ljude koji su ranjivi, obespravljeni,

people whom we have an obligation to protect.

ljude koje imamo obavezu da štitimo.

Now, you might be somewhat skeptical of a lawyer

Sad, možda ste unekoliko skeptični zbog advokata

arguing about the benefits of conflict

koji se zalaže za prednosti konflikta

and creating problems for compromise,

i za stvaranje problema nasuprot kompromisima,

but I did also qualify as a mediator,

ali sam takođe kvalifikovani posrednik,

and these days, I spend my time giving talks about ethics for free.

a ovih dana provodim vreme besplatno držeći govore o etici.

So as my bank manager likes to remind me, I'm downwardly mobile.

Kao što me menadžer moje banke voli da podseti, gubim status.

But if you accept my argument,

Ali ako prihvatite moj argument,

it should change not just the way we lead our personal lives,

to bi trebalo da promeni, ne samo to kako vodimo privatne živote,

which I wish to put to one side for the moment,

koje bih želeo za kratko da ostavim po strani,

but it will change the way we think about major problems

već će da promeni i način na koji razmišljamo o većim problemima

of public health and the environment.

javnog zdravlja i okoline.

Let me explain.

Dozvolite da objasnim.

Every middle schooler in the United States,

Svaki osnovac u Sjedinjenim Državama,

my 12-year-old daughter included,

uključujući i moju 12-ogodišnju kćerku,

learns that there are three branches of government,

uči da postoje tri grane vlade:

the legislative, the executive and the judicial branch.

zakonodavna, izvršna i sudska grana.

James Madison wrote,

Džejms Madison je napisao:

"If there is any principle more sacred in our Constitution,

"Ako postoji neki princip svetiji u našem Ustavu,

and indeed in any free constitution,

i zaista u bilo kom slobodnom ustavu,

than any other,

od bilo kog drugog,

it is that which separates

to je onaj koji razdvaja

the legislative, the executive and the judicial powers."

zakonodavnu, izvršnu i sudsku vlast."

Now, the framers were not just concerned

Sad, tvorci sistema nisu samo bili zabrinuti

about the concentration and exercise of power.

zbog koncentracije i vršenja vlasti.

They also understood the perils of influence.

Takođe su razumeli opasnost uticaja.

Judges cannot determine the constitutionality of laws

Sudije ne mogu da određuju ustavnost zakona,

if they participate in making those laws,

ako učestvuju u njihovom sastavljanju,

nor can they hold the other branches of government accountable

niti mogu da pozivaju druge grane vlasti na odgovornost,

if they collaborate with them

ako sarađuju s njima

or enter into close relationships with them.

ili imaju bliske veze s njima.

The Constitution is, as one famous scholar put it,

Ustav je, kako je to jedan čuveni akademik sročio:

"an invitation to struggle."

"poziv na borbu."

And we the people are served

A služe nama ljudima,

when those branches do, indeed, struggle with each other.

kada se ove grane uistinu međusobno bore.

Now, we recognize the importance of struggle

Sad, prepoznajemo važnost borbe,

not just in the public sector

ne samo u javnom sektoru

between our branches of government.

među našim granama vlade.

We also know it too in the private sector,

Takođe nam je poznata i u privatnom sektoru,

in relationships among corporations.

u odnosima među korporacijama.

Let's imagine that two American airlines get together and agree

Zamislimo da se dva američka avioprevoznika zajedno dogovore

that they will not drop the price

da neće obarati cene

of their economy class airfares below 250 dollars a ticket.

u njihovoj ekonomskoj klasi ispod 250 dolara po karti.

That is collaboration, some would say collusion,

To je saradnja, neki bi rekli dosluh,

not competition,

a ne konkurencija

and we the people are harmed

i na štetu je nas ljudi

because we pay more for our tickets.

jer skuplje plaćamo karte.

Imagine similarly two airlines were to say,

Slično, zamislite da dva avioprevoznika kažu:

"Look, Airline A, we'll take the route from LA to Chicago,"

"Pazite, avioprevoznik A će da uzme rutu od Los Anđelesa do Čikaga",

and Airline B says, "We'll take the route from Chicago to DC,

a avioprevoznik B kaže: "Mi ćemo da uzmemo rutu od Čikaga do Vašingtona

and we won't compete."

i nećemo biti konkurencija."

Once again, that's collaboration or collusion instead of competition,

Ponovo, radi se o saradnji ili dosluhu, umesto konkurentnosti

and we the people are harmed.

i na štetu je nas ljudi.

So we understand the importance of struggle

Te razumemo važnost borbe

when it comes to relationships between branches of government,

kada se radi o odnosima između grana vlade,

the public sector.

javnog sektora.

We also understand the importance of conflict

Takođe razumemo važnost konflikta

when it comes to relationships among corporations,

kada se radi o odnosima među korporacijama,

the private sector.

privatnom sektoru.

But where we have forgotten it

Ali zaboravili smo je

is in the relationships between the public and the private.

u odnosima između javnog i privatnog sektora.

And governments all over the world are collaborating with industry

A vlade širom sveta sarađuju s industrijom

to solve problems of public health and the environment,

kako bi rešili probleme javnog zdravlja i okoline,

often collaborating with the very corporations

često sarađujući baš s onim korporacijama

that are creating or exacerbating the problems they are trying to solve.

koje stvaraju ili pogoršavaju probleme koje pokušavaju da reše.

We are told that these relationships

Rečeno nam je da su ovi odnosi

are a win-win.

situacije bez gubitnika.

But what if someone is losing out?

Ali šta ako je neko na gubitku?

Let me give you some examples.

Daću vam neke primere.

A United Nations agency decided to address a serious problem:

Agencija Ujedinjenih nacija je odlučila da se bavi ozbiljnim problemom:

poor sanitation in schools in rural India.

lošom sanitacijom u školama u ruralnoj Indiji.

They did so not just in collaboration with national and local governments

Uradili su to ne samo u saradnji sa nacionalnom i lokalnom vladom,

but also with a television company

već i sa televizijskom firmom

and with a major multinational soda company.

i sa velikom multinacionalnom firmom gaziranih pića.

In exchange for less than one million dollars,

U zamenu za manje od milion dolara,

that corporation received the benefits of a months-long promotional campaign

gde je korporacija dobila prednosti višemesečne reklamne kampanje,

including a 12-hour telethon

uključujući 12-očasovni teleton,

all using the company's logo and color scheme.

sa sve upotrebom firminog logoa i zaštitnih boja.

This was an arrangement

Ovo je bio dogovor,

which was totally understandable

koji je bio u potpunosti razumljiv

from the corporation's point of view.

s tačke gledišta korporacije.

It enhances the reputation of the company

Uvećava ugled firme

and it creates brand loyalty for its products.

i stvara odanost brendu i njegovim proizvodima.

But in my view,

Ali po mom mišljenju,

this is profoundly problematic for the intergovernmental agency,

ovo je suštinski problematično za vladinu agenciju,

an agency that has a mission to promote sustainable living.

agenciju koja ima misiju da promoviše održivost.

By increasing consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages

Povećanjem potrošnje pića sa šećernim zaslađivačima,

made from scarce local water supplies and drunk out of plastic bottles

proizvedenih iz oskudnih zaliha vode i koji se piju iz plastičnih flaša,

in a country that is already grappling with obesity,

u državi koja se već bori sa gojaznošću,

this is neither sustainable from a public health

ovo niti je održivo s gledišta javnog zdravlja,

nor an environmental point of view.

niti sa gledišta ekologije.

And in order to solve one public health problem,

A kako bi rešila jedan problem javnog zdravlja,

the agency is sowing the seeds

agencija seje seme

of another.

drugog.

This is just one example of dozens I discovered

Ovo je tek jedan primer od desetina koje sam otkrio

in researching a book on the relationships between government and industry.

tokom istraživanja za knjigu o odnosima između vlade i industrije.

I could also have told you about the initiatives in parks

Takođe bih mogao da vam govorim o inicijativama u parkovima

in London and throughout Britain,

u Londonu i širom Britanije,

involving the same company, promoting exercise,

koji uključuju istu firmu koja promoviše vežbanje

or indeed of the British government creating voluntary pledges

ili zaista o britanskoj vladi koja stvara dobrovoljne garancije

in partnership with industry

u partnerstvu s industrijom,

instead of regulating industry.

umesto da reguliše industriju.

These collaborations or partnerships have become the paradigm in public health,

Ove saradnje ili partnerstva su postale paradigma u javnom zdravstvu

and once again, they make sense from the point of view of industry.

i, opet, imaju smisla s tačke gledišta industrije.

It allows them to frame public health problems and their solutions

Omogućuju im da formulišu probleme i rešenja u javnom zdravstvu

in ways that are least threatening to,

tako da oni predstavljaju najmanju pretnju,

most consonant with their commercial interests.

kako bi bili najsaglasniji s njihovim komercijalnim interesima.

So obesity becomes a problem

Tako gojaznost postaje problem

of individual decision-making,

odlučivanja pojedinca,

of personal behavior,

ličnog ponašanja,

personal responsibility and lack of physical activity.

lične odgovornosti i nedostatka fizičke aktivnosti.

It is not a problem,

To nije problem,

when framed this way,

kada se ovako formuliše,

of a multinational food system involving major corporations.

multinacionalnog prehrambenog sistema koji uključuje veće korporacije.

And again, I don't blame industry.

I, opet, ne krivim industriju.

Industry naturally engages in strategies of influence

Industrija se prirodno uključuje u strategije uticaja

to promote its commercial interests.

kako bi promovisala sopstvene komercijalne interese.

But governments have a responsibility

Međutim, vlade imaju odgovornost

to develop counterstrategies

da razviju kontrastrategije

to protect us

da zaštite nas

and the common good.

i opšte dobro.

The mistake that governments are making

Greška koju vlade prave

when they collaborate in this way

kada sarađuju na ovaj način

with industry

s industrijom

is that they conflate

je to da stapaju

the common good

opšte dobro

with common ground.

i zajednički jezik.

When you collaborate with industry,

Kada sarađujete s industrijom,

you necessarily put off the table

nužno sklanjate sa stola

things that might promote the common good to which industry will not agree.

ono što bi moglo da podstiče opšte dobro, na šta industrija neće pristati.

Industry will not agree to increased regulation

Industrija neće pristati na pojačanu regulaciju,

unless it believes this will stave off even more regulation

ukoliko ne smatraju da bi to odbilo još veću regulaciju

or perhaps knock some competitors out of the market.

ili bi možda izbacilo neku konkurenciju sa tržišta.

Nor can companies agree to do certain things,

Niti firme mogu da pristanu da urade određene stvari,

for example raise the prices of their unhealthy products,

na primer da povećaju cene svojih nezdravih proizvoda

because that would violate competition law,

jer bi to narušilo zakon o konkurenciji,

as we've established.

kako smo utvrdili.

So our governments should not confound

Stoga, naše vlade ne bi trebalo da mešaju

the common good and common ground,

opšte dobro sa zajedničkim jezikom,

especially when common ground means reaching agreement with industry.

naročito kad zajednički jezik znači postizanje dogovora sa industrijom.

I want to give you another example,

Želim da vam dam još jedan primer,

moving from high-profile collaboration

da se pomaknemo sa visokoprofilne saradnje

to something that is below ground

na nešto što je ispod zemlje,

both literally and figuratively:

i bukvalno i figurativno:

the hydraulic fracturing of natural gas.

hidraulično kopanje prirodnog gasa.

Imagine that you purchase a plot of land

Zamislite da ste kupili zemljišnu parcelu,

not knowing the mineral rights have been sold.

ne znajući da su prodata prava na minerale.

This is before the fracking boom.

To se desilo pre pomame za gasom.

You build your dream home on that plot,

Izgradite svoj dom iz snova na tom placu

and shortly afterwards,

i uskoro

you discover that a gas company is building a well pad on your land.

otkrijete da naftna kompanija gradi bunarsku platformu na vašoj zemlji.

That was the plight of the Hallowich family.

To su bile nedaće porodice Halovič.

Within a very short period of time,

Za kratak vremenski period,

they began to complain of headaches,

počeli su da se žale na glavobolje,

of sore throats, of itchy eyes,

bolove u grlu, peckanje u očima,

in addition to the interference of the noise, vibration

uz smetnje zbog buke, vibriranje

and the bright lights from the flaring of natural gas.

i jaka svetla od plamsanja prirodnog gasa.

They were very vocal in their criticisms,

Veoma glasno su iznosili kritike,

and then they fell silent.

a potom su ućutali.

And thanks to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, where this image appeared,

I zahvajujući "Pitsburg Post-gazeti" gde je objavljena ova slika,

and one other newspaper, we discovered why they fell silent.

i još jednim novinama, otkrili smo zašto su ućutali.

The newspapers went to the court and said, "What happened to the Hallowiches?"

Novinari su pošli na sud i pitali: "Šta se desilo sa Halovičima?"

And it turned out the Hallowiches had made a secret settlement

A ispostavilo se da su Haloviči postigli tajno poravnanje

with the gas operators, and it was a take-it-or-leave-it settlement.

sa rukovodiocima naftne firme, i to je bilo poravnanje "uzmi-ili-ostavi".

The gas company said,

Naftna firma je rekla,

you can have a six-figure sum

možete da uzmete šestocifreni iznos,

to move elsewhere and start your lives again,

preselite se drugde i započnite život iznova,

but in return

ali zauzvrat

you must promise not to speak of your experience with our company,

morate da obećate da nećete govoriti o svom iskustvu s našom firmom,

not to speak of your experience with fracking,

da nećete govoriti o svom iskustvu s kopanjem gasa,

not to speak about the health consequences

nećete govoriti o zdravstvenim posledicama

that might have been revealed by a medical examination.

koje su potencijalno otkrivene tokom lekarskog pregleda.

Now, I do not blame the Hallowiches for accepting

Sad, ne krivim Haloviče jer su prihvatili

a take-it-or-leave-it settlement

poravnanje "uzmi-ili-ostavi"

and starting their lives elsewhere.

i što su započeli svoje živote drugde.

And one can understand

I možemo da razumemo

why the company would wish to silence a squeaky wheel.

zašto bi firma želela da utiša šarku koja škripi.

What I want to point the finger at is the legal and regulatory system,

Želim da uprem prst u pravni i regulatorni sistem,

a system in which there are networks of agreements

sistem u kom postoji mreža sporazuma,

just like this one

baš poput ovoga,

which serve to silence people and seal off data points

koja služi za utišavanje ljudi i skrivanje jedinica podataka

from public health experts and epidemiologists,

od eksperata za javno zdravlje i epidemologa,

a system in which regulators

sistem u kom će se regulatori

will even refrain from issuing a violation notice

čak uzdržati od izdavanja ukaza o prestupu

in the event of pollution

u slučaju zagađenja,

if the landowner and the gas company

ukoliko se vlasnik zemljišta i plinska firma

agree to settle.

dogovore o poravnanju.

This is a system which isn't just bad from a public health point of view;

Ovo nije sistem koji je samo loš sa tačke gledišta zdravstva;

it exposes hazards to local families

on izlaže opasnosti lokalne porodice

who remain in the dark.

koje su u neznanju.

Now, I have given you two examples not because they are isolated examples.

Sad, dao sam vam dva primera, ne zato što su to usamljeni primeri.

They are examples of a systemic problem.

To su primeri sistemskog problema.

I could share some counterexamples,

Mogao bih da podelim neke protivprimere,

the case for example of the public official

na primer, slučaj javnog zvaničnika

who sues the pharmaceutical company

koji tuži farmaceutsku firmu

for concealing the fact

zbog prikrivanja činjenice

that its antidepressant increases suicidal thoughts in adolescents.

da njihovi antidepresanti povećavaju samoubilačke misli kod adolescenata.

I can tell you about the regulator who went after the food company

Mogao bih da vam govorim o regulatoru koji se ustremio na prehrambenu firmu

for exaggerating the purported health benefits of its yogurt.

jer je preuveličavala navodnu zdravstvenu korist njihovog jogurta.

And I can tell you about the legislator

I mogu da vam govorim o zakonodavcu

who despite heavy lobbying directed at both sides of the aisle

koji se uprkos žestokom lobiranju, usmerenom sa obe strane,

pushes for environmental protections.

bori za zaštitu okoline.

These are isolated examples,

Ovo su usamljeni primeri,

but they are beacons of light in the darkness,

ali su svetionici u mraku

and they can show us the way.

i mogu da nam pokažu put.

I began by suggesting that sometimes we need to engage in conflict.

Započeo sam predlažući da se ponekad moramo upustiti u sukob.

Governments should tussle with,

Vlade bi trebalo da se rvu,

struggle with, at times engage in direct conflict with corporations.

bore, ponekad uključuju u direktan sukob sa korporacijama.

This is not because governments are inherently good

Ne iz razloga što su vlade po prirodi dobre,

and corporations are inherently evil.

a korporacije su po prirodi zle.

Each is capable of good or ill.

I jedni i drugi su sposobni za dobro i zlo.

But corporations understandably act to promote their commercial interests,

Ali korporacije, razume se, delaju u cilju promovisanja svojih komercijalnih interesa

and they do so either sometimes undermining or promoting the common good.

a rade to tako što nekad podrivaju, a nekad promovišu opšte dobro.

But it is the responsibility of governments

Međutim, odgovornost je vlada

to protect and promote the common good.

da štite i promovišu opšte dobro.

And we should insist

I trebalo bi da insistiramo

that they fight to do so.

da se bore za to.

This is because governments

Zato što su vlade

are the guardians

zaštitnici

of public health;

javnog zdravlja;

governments are the guardians

vlade su zaštitnici

of the environment;

okoline;

and it is governments

i vlade su te

that are guardians

koje su zaštitnici

of these essential parts of our common good.

tih suštinskih delova našeg opšteg dobra.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)