Alison Jackson: A surprising look at celebrity

Traducător: Anca BV Corector: Teodora Cenan

I'm a contemporary artist and I show in art galleries and museums.

Sunt o artista contemporana, expun in galerii de arta si muzee.

I show a number of photographs and films,

Expun un anumit numar de fotografii si filme,

but I also make television programs, books and some advertising,

dar de asemenea produc programe de televiziune, carti si ceva materiale publicitare,

all with the same concept.

toate bazate pe acelasi concept.

And it's about our fixation with celebrity and celebrity culture,

Despre fixatia noastra pentru celebritate si cultul celebritatii,

and the importance of the image:

si depre importanta imaginii.

celebrity is born of photography.

Celebritatea se naste din fotografie.

I'm going to start with how I started with this concept seven years ago,

Voi incepe deci sa va prezint cum am pornit cu acest concept acum 7 ani,

when Princess Diana died.

cand a murit printesa Diana.

There was a sort of a standstill in Britain

Timpul a stat in loc in Mare Britanie in acea zi,

the moment of her death,

sau in acea clipa in care a murit,

and people decided to mourn her death in a sort of mass way.

iar oamenii au decis sa-i planga moartea in grup.

I was fascinated by this phenomenon,

Am fost fascinata de acest fenomen.

so I wondered:

Si m-am intrebat:

could one erase the image of Diana, actually quite crudely and physically?

poate cineva sa stearga imaginea Dianei in mod brutal si fizic?

So, I got a gun and started to shoot at the image of Diana,

Am luat o arma si am inceput sa trag in imaginea Dianei.

but I couldn't erase this from my memory

Dar nu am putut-o sterge din mintea mea,

and certainly it was not being erased from the public psyche.

si in mod cert nu avea sa fie stearsa din mentalitatea publica.

Momentum was being built.

Evenimentul lua amploare.

The press wrote about her death in rather, I felt, pornographic ways --

Presa a scris despre moartea ei, in opinia mea, intr-un mod pornografic,

like, "Which bit of artery left which bit of body?"

despre ce artera s-a desprins din ce parte a corpului,

and "How did she die in the back of the car?" --

si despre cum a murit pe bancheta din spate a masinii.

and I was intrigued by this sort of mass voyeurism,

Si am fost intrigata despre acest tip de voyeurism in masa.

so I made these rather gory images.

Astfel am creat aceste imagini insangerate.

I then went on wondering whether I could actually replace her image,

Apoi am inceput sa ma intreb daca nu as putea mai degraba sa inlocuiesc imaginea ei.

so I got a look-alike of Diana

Am gasit pe cineva care semana cu Diana,

and posed her in the right positions and angles

am pozat-o in pozitiile si unghiurile convenabile,

and created something that was in, or existed in, the public imagination.

si am creat ceva care era sau exista in imaginatia publicului.

So people were wondering: was she going to marry Dodi?

Lumea se intreba daca avea de gand sa se marite cu Dodi.

Was she in love with him?

Era indragostita de el?

Was she pregnant? Did she want his baby?

Era insarcinata? Vroia copilul lui?

Was she pregnant when she died?

Era insarcinata cand a murit?

So I created this image of Diana, Dodi and their imaginary mixed-race child

Astfel am creat imaginea Dianei, cu Dodi si copilul mulatru imaginar.

and this image came out, which caused a huge public outcry at the time.

A rezultat aceasta imagine care a cauzat numeroase proteste publice la acel moment.

I then went on to make more comments on the media and press imagery,

Am continuat sa comentez despre media si imaginatia presei.

so I started making reference to media imagery --

Am inceput sa apelez la plasticiatea media --

made it grainy, shot through doorways and so on and so forth --

am facut imginile granulate, am pozat printre usi intredeschise, si asa mai departe,

to titillate the public or the viewer further

pentru a starni si mai mult publicul si spectatorii,

in terms of trying to make the viewer more aware of their own voyeurism.

in sensul ca am vrut sa fac privitorii mai constienti de propriul lor voyeurism.

So, this is an image of Diana looking at Camilla kissing her husband,

Aceaste este o poza cu Diana privind-o pe Camilla in timp ce isi saruta sotul.

and this was a sequence of images.

Este o secventa de imagini.

And this gets shown in art galleries like this, as a sequence.

Este expusa in galerii de arta precum aceasta, ca o secventa,

And similarly with the Di-Dodian baby imagery --

si in mod similar, cea cu copilul Di-Dodi.

this is another art gallery installation.

Aceasta este o alta expunere pentru galeria de arta.

I'm particularly interested in how you can't rely on your own perception.

Ma intereseaza in mod particular cum se poate baza cineva pe propriile perceptii.

This is Jane Smith and Jo Bloggs, for instance,

Aceasta este Jane Smith cu Jo Bloggs, de exemplu,

but you think it's Camilla and the Queen,

dar te poti gandi ca sunt Camilla si Regina.

and I'm fascinated how what you think is real isn't necessarily real.

Si sunt fascinata cum poate cineva sa creada ca ceva este real chiar daca nu este neaparat real,

And the camera can lie,

iar camera poate sa minta.

and it makes it very, very easy

Acest lucru devine foarte, foarte usor de realizat

with the mass bombardment of imagery to tell untruths.

cu bombardamentul de imagini care spun ne-adevaruri.

So, I continued to work on this project of how photography seduces us

Am continuat sa lucrez la acest proiect despre cum fotografia ne seduce,

and is more interesting to look at than the actual real subject matter.

si este mult mai interesant de privit decat subiectul in sine.

And at the same time, it removes us from the real subject matter,

In acelasi timp, ne disociaza de adevaratul subiect.

and this acts as a sort of titillating thing.

Acest lucru are rolul de a incita.

So, the photograph becomes this teaser and incites desire and voyeurism;

Astfel, fotografia devine un hartuitor care incita dorinta si voyeurismul.

what you can't have, you want more.

Ce nu poti avea, iti doresti mai mult.

In the photograph, the real subject doesn't exist

In fotografie, adevaratul subiect nu exista.

so it makes you want that person more.

Astfel te face sa iti doresti mai mult acea persoana.

And that is the way, I think, that celebrity magazines work now:

Cred ca astfel functioneaza ziarele de scandal.

the more pictures you see of these celebrities,

Cu cat vezi mai multe poze cu aceste celebritati,

the more you feel you know them,

cu atat simti ca le cunosti mai bine,

but you don't know them

dar nu le cunosti,

and you want to know them further.

si vrei sa afli mai multe.

Of course, the Queen goes to her stud often to watch her horses ...

Bineinteles ca Regina merge la herghelia ei pentru a-si admira caii...

watch her horses. (Laughter).

a-si admira caii. (Rasete).

And then I was sort of making imagery.

Apoi am inceput sa plasticizez.

In England there's an expression: "you can't imagine the Queen on the loo."

In Anglia este o expresie: "Nu-ti poti imagina Regina pe 'tron' ".

So I'm trying to penetrate that.

Incerc sa sparg aceste bariere.

Well, here is the image.

Ei bine, iata imaginea.

All this imagery was creating a lot of fuss

Toate aceste poze au creat o mare agitatie.

and I was cited as a disgusting artist. The press were writing about this,

Si am fost numita o artista dezgustatoare. Presa a scris despre asta,

giving full pages about how terrible this was.

stiti, pagini intregi despre cat de groaznic este ceea ce fac,

Which I found very interesting that it was going full cycle:

lucru pe care l-am considerat interesant pentru ca lucrurile mergeau in cerc.

I was making comments about the press

Eu faceam comentarii despre presa,

and about how we know facts and information only by media --

si despre cum aflam lucruri si informatii doar din presa

because we don't know the real people;

pentru ca noi nu cunoastem acele persoane.

very few of us know the real people --

Foarte putini dintre noi cunosc acele persoane.

but it was going back into the press

Dar aceste lucruri ajungeau din nou in presa,

and they were publicizing, effectively, my filthy work.

iar ei promovau, in esenta, munca mea murdara.

So, these are broadsheets, tabloids, debates were being had all about this work,

Astfel, aceste ziare, tabloide, discutii se axau pe aceasta munca.

films were being banned before people had actually had the look at the work,

Au fost interzise filme chiar inainte ca oamenii sa aiba sansa sa le vada.

politicians were getting involved --

Au fost implicati politicieni.

all sorts of things -- great headlines.

Tot felul de lucruri, mari titluri de afis.

Then suddenly, it started to get on front pages.

Apoi brusc a inceput sa apara pe primele pagini ale ziarelor.

I was being asked and paid to do front covers.

Mi s-a cerut si am fost platita sa creez coperte.

Suddenly I was becoming sort of acceptable,

Dintr-o data am devenit intr-un fel acceptabila,

which I found also fascinating.

lucru pe care l-am considerat, de asemenea, fascinant.

How one moment -- it was disgusting --

Cum la un moment dat era dezgustator --

journalists would lie to me to get a story or a photograph of me,

jurnalistii ma minteau pentru a pune mana pe o poveste sau o fotografie a mea,

saying my work was wonderful,

spunand ca munca mea era minunata,

and the next minute there were terrible headlines about me.

pentru ca in secunda urmatoare sa apara titluri groaznice despre mine.

But then this changed suddenly.

Dar dintr-o data acest lucru s-a schimbat.

I then started to work for magazines and newspapers.

Am inceput apoi sa lucrez pentru reviste si ziare.

This was, for example, an image that went into Tatler.

Aceasta este, de exemplu, o imagine care a aparut in Tatler.

This was another newspaper image.

Aceasta este o alta imagine aparuta intr-un ziar.

It was an April fool actually, and to this day some people think it's real.

De fapt, era Ziua Pacalelilor, si pana in ziua de azi sunt persoane care cred ca e real.

I was sitting next to someone at dinner the other day,

Stateam langa cineva la o cina zilele trecute,

and they were saying there's this great image of the Queen

si spuneau ca exista o imagine grozava a Reginei

sitting outside William Hill.

in fata la William Hill.

They thought it was real.

Au crezut ca este real.

I was exploring, at the time, the hyperbole of icons --

Am explorat la momentul respectiv hiperbola persoanelor emblematice,

and Diana and Marilyn -- and the importance of celebrity in our lives.

cum ar fi Diana sau Marilyn, si importanta celebritatii in viata noastra.

How they wheedle their way into the collective psyche

Cum se strecoara in mentalitatea publica

without us even knowing,

fara sa ne dam seama,

and how that should happen.

si cum ar trebui sa se intample asta.

I explored with actually dressing up as the celebrities myself.

Eu insami am explorat acest lucru deghizandu-ma intr-o celebritate.

There's me as Diana --

Aici sunt eu imbracata precum Diana.

I look like the mass murderer Myra Hindley, I think, in this one. (Laughter).

Cred ca arat precum criminala in serie Myra Henley in aceasta poza. (Rasete).

And me as the Queen.

Eu in rolul Reginei.

I then continued on to make a whole body of work about Marilyn --

Am continuat cu numeroase lucrari despre Marilyn,

the biggest icon of all --

cea mai mare imagine dintre toate.

and trying to titillate by shooting through doorways and shutters and so on and so forth,

Incerc sa starnesc interesul pozand printre usi intre-deschise si draperii si asa mai departe.

and only showing certain angles to create a reality that, obviously,

Si doar aratand anumite unghiuri pentru a crea o realitate care in mod evident

is completely constructed.

este complet construita.

This is the look-alike, so the crafting elements of this is completely enormous.

Aceasta este sosia, deci elementele necesare transformarii sunt imense.

She looks nothing like Marilyn,

Nu seamana deloc cu Marilyn.

but by the time we've made her up and put wigs and makeup on,

Dar dupa ce am schimbat-o, i-am pus peruca si am machiat-o,

she looks exactly like Marilyn,

arata exact ca Marilyn,

to the extent that her husband couldn't recognize her --

intr-o asemenea masura ca propriul ei sot nu a putut-o recunoaste,

or recognize this look-alike -- in these photographs,

sau s-o recunoasca in aceste fotografii,

which I find quite interesting.

lucru pe care il gasesc foarte interesant.

So, all this work is getting shown in art galleries.

Toate aceste lucrari se gasesc in galerii de arta.

Then I made a book.

Am scos si o carte.

I was also making a TV series for the BBC at the time.

Realizam si o serie TV pentru BBC la momentul respectiv.

Stills from the TV series went into this book.

Cadre din aceste serii TV se regasesc in carte.

But there was a real legal problem because it looks real,

Dar era o problema legala reala pentru ca totul pare adevarat,

but how do you get over that?

dar cum depasesti acest lucru?

Because obviously it's making a comment about our culture right now:

Pentru ca in mod evident exprima o parere despre cultura noastra actuala,

that we can't tell what's real.

ca nu putem distinge ce este real.

How do we know when we're looking at something whether it's real or not?

Cum stim, cand ne uitam la ceva, daca este real sau nu?

So, from my point of view, it's important to publish it,

Din punctul meu de vedere, este important sa fie publicate,

but at the same time it does cause a confusion --

dar in acelasi timp creeaza confuzie --

intentional on my behalf,

intentionata din partea mea --

but problematic for any outlet that I'm working with.

dar problematica pentru orice nisa cu care lucrez.

So a big disclaimer is put on everything that I do,

Astfel, un mare disclaimer este pus pe fiecare lucrare,

and I made narratives about all the European or Brit celebrities

si am facut un fel de poveste pentru fiecare celebritate europeana sau britanica

and comments about our public figures.

si comentarii despre persoanele noastre publice.

You know, what does Tony Blair get up to in private with his fashion guru?

Ce nazbatii face Tony Blair in particular cu gurul modei al sau?

And also dealing with the perceptions that are put about

De asemenea, abordarea perceptiilor create despre

Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, the links that were put about pre-Iraq war.

Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, si legaturile care au fost facute inainte de razboiul din Iraq.

And what is going to happen to the monarchy?

Si ce se va intampla cu monarhia

Because obviously the British public,

pentru ca in mod evident publicul britanic,

I think, would prefer William to Charles on the throne.

cred, l-ar prefera pe William in locul lui Charles la tron.

And it's that wish, or that desire, that I suppose I'm dealing with in my work.

Iar in lucrarile mele cu aceasta dorinta ma confrunt.

I'm not really interested in the celebrity themselves.

Nu ma intereseaza neaparat celebritatile.

I'm interested in the perception of the celebrity.

Ma intereseaza perceptia asupra celebritatii.

And with some look-alikes, they are so good

Si cu ajutorul unor sosii, rezultatele sunt atat de bune.

you don't know whether they're real or not.

Nu sti daca sunt reale sau nu.

I did an advertising campaign for Schweppes, which is Coca-Cola,

Am facut o campanie publicitara pentru Schweppes, care este Coca-Cola,

and so that was very interesting in terms of the legalities.

ceea ce este interesant in ceea ce priveste aspectele legale.

It's highly commercial.

Este pur comercial.

But it was a difficulty for me -- because this is my artwork;

Dar a fost dificil pentru mine pentru ca este arta mea.

should I do advertising? -- at the time.

Sa fac publicitate, la momentul respectiv?

So I made sure the work was not compromised in any way

M-am asigurat ca munca nu a fost compromisa in nici un fel,

and that the integrity of the work remained the same.

si ca integritatea lucrarii a ramas aceeasi.

But the meanings changed in the sense that with the logo on,

Dar sensul s-a schimbat, in sensul ca impreuna cu logo-ul

you're closing all the lines of interpretation down to selling a product

toate posibilitatile de intepretare converg spre un produs destinat vanzarii --

and that's all you're doing.

si doar asta faci.

When you take the logo off, you're opening up the interpretations

Cand se inlatura logo-ul, se deschid posibilitatile de interpretare

and making the work inconclusive,

iar lucrarea devine nefinisata.

opposed to conclusive when you are advertising.

Nu finita, cand se face publicitate.

This image is quite interesting, actually,

Aceasta imagine este foarte interesanta,

because I think we made it three years ago.

am facut-o acum 3 ani,

And it's Camilla in her wedding dress, which, again,

o reprezinta pe Camilla in rochie de mireasa, care, din nou,

nearly got re-used now, recently prior to her wedding.

aproape a fost refolosita, inainte de nunta.

Tony Blair and Cherie. And again, the legalities -- we had to be very careful.

Tony Blair si Cherie. Si din nou, aspectele legale -- a trebuit sa fim extrem de atenti.

It's obviously a very big commercial company, and so this little,

Este evident o mare companie comerciala si am facut acest mic slogan:

"Shh -- it's not really them,"

"Shh ... stii ca nu sunt ei cu adevarat",

was put on the side of the imagery.

care a fost plasat langa imagine.

And Margaret Thatcher visiting Jeffery Archer in jail.

Si Margaret Thatcher in vizita la Jeffery Archer la inchisoare.

I then was asked by Selfridges to do a series of windows for them,

Apoi am fost rugata de Selfridges sa realizez o serie de vitrine pentru ei.

so I built a sauna bath in one of their windows and created little scenes --

Am construit o sauna pentru una dintre vitrine, si am creat un mic scenariu --

live scenes with look-alikes inside the windows,

o scena reala cu sosii in vitrina,

and the windows were all steamed up.

cu geamurile aburite.

So, it's Tony Blair reading and practicing his speech;

Aici este Tony Blair citindu-si si exersandu-si discursul.

I've got them doing yoga inside there with Carole Caplin;

I-am pus sa faca yoga cu Carole Caplin,

Sven making out with Ulrika Jonsson, who he was having an affair with at that time.

Sven giugiulindu-se cu Ulrika Jonsson, cu care avea o aventura la momentul respectiv.

This was a huge success for them

A fost un mare succes pentru ei

because the imagery got shown in the press the day after

pentru ca au aparut imagini a doua zi in presa

in every single newspaper, broadsheets and tabloids.

in fiecare ziar, gazeta si tabloid.

It was a bit of a road stopper, which was problematic

A creat un ambuteiaj, ceea ce a fost problematic

because the police kept on trying to clear away the crowds,

pentru ca politia tot incerca sa elibereze zona de multime.

but huge fun -- it was great for me to do a performance.

Dar foarte amuzant -- a fost grozav pentru mine sa pun asa ceva in scena.

Also, people were taking photographs of this,

De asemenea, lumea facea poze,

so it was being texted around the world extremely quickly, all this imagery.

au fost trimise in jurul lumii extrem de rapid aceste imagini.

And the press were interviewing, and I was signing my book. (Laughter).

Presa lua interviuni, iar eu dadeam autografe. (Rasete).

Further imagery. I'm making a new book now with Taschen

Un alt scenariu: in prezent scriu o carte cu Taschen,

that I'm working on really for a sort of global market --

la care lucrez pentru piata globala.

my previous book was only for the U.K. market --

Cartea mea anterioara a fost numai pentru piata britanica.

that I suppose it could be called humorous.

Dar presupun ca as putea fi numita hilara.

I suppose I come from a sort of non-humorous background

Presupun ca provin dintr-un trecut ne-amuzant,

with serious intent,

stiti, cu intentii serioase.

and then suddenly my work is funny.

Apoi brusc munca mea este amuzanta.

And I think it doesn't really matter that my work is considered humorous, in a way;

Si cred ca nu conteaza ca munca mea este considerata amuzanta, intr-un fel --

I think it's a way in for me to deal with the importance of imagery

cred ca este o modalitate pentru mine de a trata importanta acestui tip de imagine,

and how we read all our information through imagery.

si despre cum primim informatii prin aceasta punere in scena.

It's an extremely fast way of getting information.

Este o metoda extrem de rapida de a obtine informatii.

It's extremely difficult if it's constructed correctly,

Este extrem de dificila daca este construita corect,

and there are techniques of constructing iconic imagery.

si exista tehnici de contruire a imaginilor emblematice.

This image, for example, is sort of spot-on

Aceasta imagine, de exemplu, tinteste direct la obiect

because it exactly sums up what Elton may be doing in private,

pentru ca insumeaza exact ce ar putea face Elton in particular,

and also what might be happening with Saddam Hussein, and George Bush

si de asemenea ce s-ar putea intampla cu Saddam Hussein, si George Bush

reading the Koran upside-down.

citind Coranul cu susul in jos.

For example, George Bush target practice --

De exemplu, exersand trasul la tinta,

shooting at Bin Laden and Michael Moore.

tragand spre Bin Laden si Michael Moore.

And then you change the photograph he's shooting at,

Apoi se schimba fotografia la care trage

and it suddenly becomes rather grim and maybe less accessible. (Laughter).

si devine dintr-o data aspru, si poate mai putin accesibil. (Rasete).

Tony Blair being used as a mounting block,

Tony Blair folosit drept scara.

and Rumsfeld and Bush laughing with some Abu Ghraib photos behind,

Si Rumsfeld cu Bush razand, avand niste poze cu Abu Ghraib in spate,

and the seriousness, or the intellect, of Bush.

si seriozitatea si intelectul lui Bush.

And also, commenting on the behind the scenes --

De asemenea comentariile din spatele scenei,

well, as we know now -- what goes on in prisons.

si, dupa cum am aflat, ce se intampla in inchisori.

And in fact, George Bush and Tony Blair

Si de fapt, George Bush si Tony Blair

are having great fun during all of this.

se distreaza in acest timp.

And really commenting, you know,

Si de fapt comentariile

based on the perception we have of the celebrities.

bazate pe perceptia pe care o avem asupra celebritatilor,

What Jack Nicholson might be up to in his celebrity life,

ce face Jack Nicholson in viata de celebritate.

and the fact that he tried to ... he had a bit of road rage

Si faptul ca a incercat, a fost putin furios,

and golf-clubbed a driver the other day.

si a lovit un sofer zilele trecute cu o crosa de golf.

I mean, it's extremely difficult to find these look-alikes,

Ce vreau sa spun, este destul de dificil sa gasesti aceste sosii,

so I'm constantly going up to people in the street

asa ca mereu opresc lumea pe strada

and trying to ask people to come

si incerc sa chem oamenii

and be in one of my photographs or films.

sa participe la fotografiile sau filmele mele.

And sometimes asking the real celebrity,

Cateodata intreb o celebritate adevarata,

mistaking them for someone who just looks like the real person,

confundand-o cu cineva care arata ca persoana reala,

which is highly embarrassing. (Laughter).

lucru extrem de stanjenitor. (Rasete).

I've also been working with The Guardian on a topical basis --

Am lucrat de asemenea cu 'Gardianul' pe baza de articole --

a page a week in their newspaper --

o pagina pe saptamana in ziarul lor --

which has been very interesting, working topically.

lucru foarte interesant, sa lucrezi pe anumite teme.

So, Jamie Oliver and school dinners;

Jamie Oliver si pranzul in scoala,

Bush and Blair having difficulty getting alongside Muslim culture;

Bush si Blair avand dificultati in a se intelege pe tema culturii musulmane;

the whole of the hunting issue,

problema vanatului,

and the royal family refusing to stop hunting;

si refuzul familiei regale de a intrerupe vanatorile.

and the tsunami issues; and obviously Harry;

Si problema tsunami-ului. Si in mod evident Harry.

Blair's views on Gordon Brown, which I find very interesting;

Parerea lui Blair in legatura cu Gordon Brown, care mi se pare foarte interesanta.

Condi and Bush.

Condi si Bush.

This image I've decided to show having a reservation about it.

Aceasta imagine am decis s-o prezint cu ceva rezerve.

I made it a year ago. And just how meanings change,

Am facut-o acum un an -- si cum semnificatiile se schimba,

and there were a terrible thing that has happened,

s-a intamplat un lucru ingrozitor.

but the fear is lurking around in our minds prior to that.

Dar frica sta la panda in mintea noastra inainte de asta.

That's why this image was made one year ago,

De aceea aceasta poza a fost facuta acum un an.

and what it means today.

Si ce inseamna azi.

So, I'll leave you with these clips to have a look. (Music)

Va las sa vizionati aceste clipuri.

Chris Anderson: Thank you.

Chris Anderson: Multumesc.