Why it's worth listening to people you disagree with | Zachary R. Wood

235,058 views ใƒป 2018-05-10

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืชืจื’ื•ื: Zeeva Livshitz ืขืจื™ื›ื”: Ido Dekkers
00:14
In 1994,
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ื‘ืฉื ืช 1994,
00:15
Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein coauthored "The Bell Curve,"
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ืฆ'ืจืœืก ืžื•ืจื™ื™ ื•ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ ื”ืจื ืฉื˜ื™ื™ืŸ ื—ื™ื‘ืจื• ื‘ืžืฉื•ืชืฃ ืืช "ืขืงื•ืžืช ื”ืคืขืžื•ืŸ"
00:20
an extremely controversial book
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ืกืคืจ ืžืื•ื“ ืฉื ื•ื™ ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช
00:22
which claims that on average,
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ืืฉืจ ื˜ื•ืขืŸ ื›ื™ ื‘ืžืžื•ืฆืข,
00:24
some races are smarter and more likely to succeed than others.
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ื›ืžื” ื’ื–ืขื™ื ื”ื ื—ื›ืžื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ืฆืคื•ื™ื™ื ืœื”ืฆืœื™ื— ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืื—ืจื™ื.
00:28
Murray and Herrnstein also suggest
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ืžื•ืจื™ื™ ื•ื”ืจื ืฉื˜ื™ื™ืŸ ื’ื ื˜ื•ืขื ื™ื
00:30
that a lack of critical intelligence explains the prominence of violent crime
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ืฉื—ื•ืกืจ ืื™ื ื˜ืœื™ื’ื ืฆื™ื” ืงืจื™ื˜ื™ืช ืžืกื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ืชื‘ืœื˜ื•ืชื• ืฉืœ ืคืฉืข ืืœื™ื
00:35
in poor African-American communities.
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ื‘ืงื”ื™ืœื•ืช ืืคืจื•-ืืžืจื™ืงื ื™ื•ืช ืขื ื™ื•ืช.
00:39
But Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein are not the only people who think this.
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ืื‘ืœ ืฆ'ืจืœืก ืžืืจื™ื™ ื•ืจืฆ'ืจื“ ื”ืจื ืฉื˜ื™ื™ืŸ ืื™ื ื ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ื™ื ืฉื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ื›ืš.
00:43
In 2012,
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ื‘ 2012,
00:45
a writer, journalist and political commentator named John Derbyshire
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ืกื•ืคืจ, ืขื™ืชื•ื ืื™ ื•ืคืจืฉืŸ ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ ื‘ืฉื ื’'ื•ืŸ ื“ืจื‘ื™ืฉื™ื™ืจ
00:49
wrote an article that was supposed to be a non-black version of the talk
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ื›ืชื‘ ืžืืžืจ ืฉื”ื™ื” ืืžื•ืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื’ืจืกื” ืœื ืฉื—ื•ืจื” ืฉืœ ื”ืฉื™ื—ื”
00:54
that many black parents feel they have to give their kids today:
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ืฉื”ื•ืจื™ื ืฉื—ื•ืจื™ื ืจื‘ื™ื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœื ื”ืœ ืขื ื™ืœื“ื™ื”ื ื”ื™ื•ื:
00:57
advice on how to stay safe.
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ืฉื›ื•ืœืœืช ืขืฆื•ืช ื›ื™ืฆื“ ืœืฉืžื•ืจ ืขืœ ื‘ื˜ื™ื—ื•ืช
01:00
In it, he offered suggestions such as:
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ื•ื‘ื” ื”ื•ื ื”ืฆื™ืข ื”ืฆืขื•ืช ื›ื’ื•ืŸ:
01:03
"Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks,"
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"ืืœ ืชื™ื›ื ืกื• ืœืื™ืจื•ืขื™ื ืฉืกื‘ื™ืจ ืฉื™ืžืฉื›ื• ื”ืจื‘ื” ืฉื—ื•ืจื™ื,"
01:07
"Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods"
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"ื”ื™ืฉืืจื• ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœืฉื›ื•ื ื•ืช ืฉืจื•ื‘ืŸ ืฉื—ื•ืจื•ืช
01:09
and "Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in distress."
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ื•"ืืœ ืชืคืขืœื• ื›"ืฉื•ืžืจื•ื ื™ ื”ื˜ื•ื‘" ืœืžืขืŸ ืฉื—ื•ืจื™ื ื‘ืžืฆื•ืงื”".
01:13
And yet, in 2016, I invited John Derbyshire
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ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช, ื‘ืฉื ืช 2016, ื”ื–ืžื ืชื™ ืืช ื’'ื•ืŸ ื“ืจื‘ื™ืฉื™ื™ืจ
01:18
as well as Charles Murray
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ื›ืžื• ื’ื ืืช ืฆ'ืืจืœืก ืžืืจื™ื™
01:19
to speak at my school,
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ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ื”ืกืคืจ ืฉืœื™,
01:21
knowing full well that I would be giving them a platform and attention
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ื‘ื™ื“ื™ืขื” ืžืœืื” ืฉืืชืŸ ืœื”ื ืคืœื˜ืคื•ืจืžื” ื•ืชืฉื•ืžืช ืœื‘
01:26
for ideas that I despised and rejected.
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ืขื‘ื•ืจ ืจืขื™ื•ื ื•ืช ืฉื‘ื–ื™ืชื™ ื•ื“ื—ื™ืชื™.
01:30
But this is just a further evolution
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื• ืจืง ืื‘ื•ืœื•ืฆื™ื” ื ื•ืกืคืช
01:33
of a journey of uncomfortable learning throughout my life.
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ืฉืœ ืžืกืข ืฉืœ ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืœื ื ื•ื—ื” ืœืื•ืจืš ื›ืœ ื—ื™ื™.
01:37
When I was 10 years old, my mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia,
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ื›ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืŸ 10, ืืžื™ ืื•ื‘ื—ื ื” ืขื ืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื”,
01:42
a mental illness characterized by mood swings and paranoid delusions.
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ืžื—ืœืช ื ืคืฉ ืฉืžืื•ืคื™ื™ื ืช ื‘ืชื ื•ื“ื•ืช ืžืฆื‘ ืจื•ื— ื•ื”ื–ื™ื•ืช ืคืจื ื•ืื™ื“ื™ื•ืช.
01:47
Throughout my life, my mother's rage would turn our small house
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ืœืื•ืจืš ื›ืœ ื—ื™ื™, ื–ืขืžื” ืฉืœ ืืžื™ ื”ื™ื” ื”ื•ืคืš ืืช ื‘ื™ืชื ื• ื”ืงื˜ืŸ
01:51
into a minefield.
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ืœืฉื“ื” ืžื•ืงืฉื™ื.
01:54
Yet, though I feared her rage on a daily basis,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช, ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉื—ืฉืฉืชื™ ืžื–ืขืžื” ืขืœ ื‘ืกื™ืก ื™ื•ืžื™,
01:57
I also learned so much from her.
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ืœืžื“ืชื™ ื’ื ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžืžื ื”.
02:00
Our relationship was complicated and challenging,
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ื”ื™ื—ืกื™ื ื‘ื™ื ื™ื ื• ื”ื™ื• ืžืกื•ื‘ื›ื™ื ื•ืžืืชื’ืจื™ื
02:05
and at the age of 14, it was decided that I needed to live apart from her.
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ื•ื‘ื’ื™ืœ 14 ื”ื•ื—ืœื˜ ืฉืื ื™ ืฆืจื™ืš ืœื—ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื ืคืจื“ ืžืžื ื”
02:12
But over the years,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืžื”ืœืš ื”ืฉื ื™ื
02:13
I've come to appreciate some of the important lessons
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ืœืžื“ืชื™ ืœื”ืขืจื™ืš ืื—ื“ื™ื ืžื”ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ื ื”ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื™ื
02:16
my mother taught me about life.
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ืฉืืžื™ ืœื™ืžื“ื” ืื•ืชื™ ืขืœ ื”ื—ื™ื™ื.
02:18
She was the first person who spoke to me about learning from the other side.
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ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืฉื“ื™ื‘ืจื” ืื™ืชื™ ืขืœ ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืžื”ืื—ืจ
02:24
And she, like me, was born and raised
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ื•ื”ื™ื, ื›ืžื•ื ื™ ื ื•ืœื“ื” ื•ื’ื“ืœื”
02:27
in a family of committed liberal democrats.
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ื‘ืžืฉืคื—ื” ืฉืœ ื“ืžื•ืงืจื˜ื™ื ืœื™ื‘ืจืœื™ื ืžื•ืฆื”ืจื™ื.
02:30
Yet, she encouraged me to see the world and the issues our world faces
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ืขื ื–ืืช, ื”ื™ื ืขื•ื“ื“ื” ืื•ืชื™ ืœืจืื•ืช ืืช ื”ืขื•ืœื ื•ื”ื‘ืขื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื•
02:34
as complex, controversial and ever-changing.
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ื›ืžื•ืจื›ื‘ื•ืช, ืฉื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ื•ืžืฉืชื ื•ืช ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ.
02:40
One day, I came across the phrase "affirmative action"
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ื™ื•ื ืื—ื“, ื ืชืงืœืชื™ ื‘ืžืฉืคื˜ "ื”ืขื“ืคื” ืžืชืงื ืช"
02:42
in a book I was reading.
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ื‘ืกืคืจ ืฉืงืจืืชื™.
02:45
And when I asked her what the term meant,
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ื•ื›ืฉืฉืืœืชื™ ืื•ืชื” ืžื” ืคื™ืจื•ืฉ ื”ืžื•ื ื—,
02:48
she spent what felt like an hour
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ื”ื™ื ื‘ื™ืœืชื” ืžื” ืฉื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ื›ืฉืขื”
02:50
giving me a thorough and thoughtful explanation
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ื‘ื ืชื™ื ืช ื”ืกื‘ืจ ืžืขืžื™ืง ื•ืžืœื ืžื—ืฉื‘ื”
02:52
that would make sense to a small child.
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ืฉื™ื”ื™ื” ื”ื’ื™ื•ื ื™ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื™ืœื“ ืงื˜ืŸ.
02:54
She even made the topic sound at least as interesting
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ื”ื™ื ืืคื™ืœื• ื”ืฉืžื™ืขื” ืืช ื”ื ื•ืฉื ื›ืš ืฉื™ื™ืฉืžืข ืžืขื ื™ื™ืŸ
02:58
as any of my professors have.
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ื›ืžื• ืฉืœ ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืคืจื•ืคืกื•ืจื™ื ืฉืœื™.
03:01
She explained the many reasons why people of various political views
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ื”ื™ื ื”ืกื‘ื™ืจื” ืืช ื”ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ื”ืจื‘ื•ืช ืžื“ื•ืข ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืขืœื™ ื“ืขื•ืช ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื•ืช
03:05
challenge and support affirmative action,
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ืžืืชื’ืจื™ื ื•ืชื•ืžื›ื™ื ื‘ื”ืขื“ืคื” ืžืชืงื ืช,
03:07
stressing that, while she strongly supported it herself,
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ื•ืžื“ื’ื™ืฉื” ืฉื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉื”ื™ื ืžืื•ื“ ืชื•ืžื›ืช ื‘ื”,
03:11
it was important for me to view the issue as a controversial one
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ื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืฉืื ื™ ืืจืื” ืืช ื”ื ื•ืฉื ื›ืฉื ื•ื™ ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช
03:15
with a long history,
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ืขื ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” ืืจื•ื›ื”,
03:17
a questionable future
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ืขืชื™ื“ ืžืคื•ืงืคืง
03:19
and a host of complicating factors.
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ื•ื›ื‘ืขืœ ืฉื•ืจื” ืฉืœ ื’ื•ืจืžื™ื ืžืกื•ื‘ื›ื™ื.
03:22
While affirmative action can increase the presence of minorities
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ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉื”ืขื“ืคื” ืžืชืงื ืช ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ื’ื“ื™ืœ ืืช ื ื•ื›ื—ื•ืชื ืฉืœ ืžื™ืขื•ื˜ื™ื
03:26
at elite educational institutions,
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ื‘ืžื•ืกื“ื•ืช ื—ื™ื ื•ืš ืืœื™ื˜ื™ืกื˜ื™ื™ื,
03:28
she felt that it could also disadvantage hardworking people of different races
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ื”ื™ื ื”ืจื’ื™ืฉื” ืฉื–ื” ื™ื›ื•ืœ ื’ื ืœืคื’ื•ืข ื‘ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืงื“ื ื™ื ื‘ื ื™ ื’ื–ืขื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื
03:33
from more affluent backgrounds.
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ืžืจืงืข ื™ื•ืชืจ ืืžื™ื“.
03:37
My mom wanted me to understand
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ืืžื ืฉืœื™ ืจืฆืชื” ืฉืื ื™ ืื‘ื™ืŸ
03:41
that I should never just write off opinions
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ืฉืื ื™ ืืฃ ืคืขื ืœื ืฆืจื™ืš ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ื“ืขื•ืช
03:43
that I disagreed with or disliked,
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ืฉืื™ื ื™ ืžืกื›ื™ื ืื™ืชืŸ, ืื• ืœื ืื•ื”ื‘ ืื•ืชืŸ,
03:46
because there was always something to learn from the perspectives of others,
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ื›ื™ ืชืžื™ื“ ื™ืฉ ืžืฉื”ื• ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืžื ืงื•ื“ื•ืช ืžื‘ื˜ ืฉืœ ืื—ืจื™ื,
03:50
even when doing so might be difficult.
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ื’ื ื›ืืฉืจ ื–ื” ืขืœื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืงืฉื”.
03:53
But life at home with my mom
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื—ื™ื™ื ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ืขื ืืžื ืฉืœื™
03:56
was not the only aspect of my journey that has been formative and uncomfortable.
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ืœื ื”ื™ื” ื”ื”ื™ื‘ื˜ ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ ื‘ืžืกืข ืฉืœื™ ืฉื”ื™ื” ืžืขืฆื‘ ื•ืœื ื ื•ื—.
04:01
In fourth grade, she decided that I should attend a private school
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ื‘ื›ื™ืชื” ื“' ื”ื™ื ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื” ืฉืื ื™ ืฆืจื™ืš ืœืœืžื•ื“ ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ืกืคืจ ืคืจื˜ื™
04:05
in order to receive the best education possible.
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ืขืœ ืžื ืช ืœืงื‘ืœ ืืช ื”ื—ื™ื ื•ืš ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ.
04:08
As a black student attending predominantly white private schools,
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ื›ืชืœืžื™ื“ ืฉื—ื•ืจ ืฉืœื•ืžื“ ื‘ื‘ืชื™ ืกืคืจ ืคืจื˜ื™ื™ื ื‘ืขื™ืงืจ ืœืœื‘ื ื™ื,
04:12
I've encountered attitudes and behaviors that reflected racial stereotypes.
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ื ืชืงืœืชื™ ื‘ื’ื™ืฉื•ืช ื•ื‘ื”ืชื ื”ื’ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืฉื™ืงืคื• ืกื˜ืจืื•ื˜ื™ืคื™ื ื’ื–ืขื ื™ื™ื.
04:17
Several of my friends' parents assumed within minutes of meeting me
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ื›ืžื” ืžื”ื•ืจื™ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืœื™ ื”ื ื™ื—ื• ื‘ืชื•ืš ื“ืงื•ืช ืฉืœ ืคื’ื™ืฉื” ืืชื™
04:21
that my best skill was playing basketball.
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ืฉื”ืžื™ื•ืžื ื•ืช ื”ื›ื™ ื˜ื•ื‘ื” ืฉืœื™ ื”ื™ื ืœืฉื—ืง ื›ื“ื•ืจืกืœ.
04:25
And it really upset me to think that my race made it harder for them
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ื•ื‘ืืžืช ื”ืจื’ื™ื– ืื•ืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืฉื”ื’ื–ืข ืฉืœื™ ื”ื™ืงืฉื” ืขืœื™ื”ื
04:28
to see me as a student who loved reading, writing and speaking.
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ืœืจืื•ืช ืื•ืชื™ ื›ืชืœืžื™ื“ ืฉืื•ื”ื‘ ืงืจื™ืื”, ื›ืชื™ื‘ื” ื•ื“ื™ื‘ื•ืจ.
04:32
Experiences like this motivated me to work tirelessly
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ื—ื•ื•ื™ื•ืช ื›ืžื• ืืœื” ื”ื ื™ืขื• ืื•ืชื™ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืœืœื ืœืื•ืช
04:38
to disprove what I knew people had assumed.
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืจื™ืš ืืช ืžื” ืฉื™ื“ืขืชื™ ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื ื™ื—ื•.
04:42
My mother even said that, in order to put my best foot forward,
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ืืžื™ ืืคื™ืœื• ืืžืจื” ืฉื›ื“ื™ ืฉืืชืงื“ื ื•ืืฆืœื™ื— ื›ื›ืœ ืฉืื•ื›ืœ
04:46
I had to be patient, alert and excruciatingly well-mannered.
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ืขืœื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืกื‘ืœื ื™, ืขืจื ื™ ื•ื ื™ื ื•ื—.
04:50
To prove that I belonged, I had to show poise and confidence,
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื•ื›ื™ื— ืฉืื ื™ ืฉื™ื™ืš, ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื—ื™ื™ื‘ ืœื”ืคื’ื™ืŸ ื‘ื™ื˜ื—ื•ืŸ ืขืฆืžื™,
04:54
the ability to speak well and listen closely.
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ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื™ื˜ื‘ ื•ืœื”ืงืฉื™ื‘ ื‘ืชืฉื•ืžืช ืœื‘.
04:57
Only then would my peers see that I deserved to be there
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ืจืง ืื– ื—ื‘ืจื™ ื™ื™ื•ื•ื›ื—ื• ืฉืžื’ื™ืข ืœื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื
05:00
as much as they did.
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ื›ืžื• ืœื”ื.
05:02
Despite this racial stereotyping and the discomfort I often felt,
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ืœืžืจื•ืช ื”ืกื˜ืจืื•ื˜ื™ืค ื”ื’ื–ืขื ื™ ื”ื–ื” ื•ืื™-ื”ื ื•ื—ื•ืช ืฉื—ืฉืชื™ ืœืขืชื™ื ืงืจื•ื‘ื•ืช,
05:07
the learning I gained from other aspects of being at an elite private school
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ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืฆื‘ืจืชื™ ืžื”ื™ื‘ื˜ื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื ืฉื—ื•ื•ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืืœื™ื˜ื” ื”ืคืจื˜ื™ืช
05:11
were incredibly valuable.
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ื”ื™ื• ื‘ืขืœื™ ืขืจืš ืจื‘
05:14
I was encouraged by my teachers to explore my curiosity,
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ื”ืžื•ืจื™ื ืขื•ื“ื“ื• ืื•ืชื™ ืœื‘ื—ื•ืŸ ืืช ืกืงืจื ื•ืชื™,
05:18
to challenge myself in new ways
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ืœืืชื’ืจ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™ ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช
05:20
and to deepen my understanding of subjects that fascinated me the most.
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ืœื”ืขืžื™ืง ืืช ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ื‘ื ื•ืฉืื™ื ืฉืขื ื™ื™ื ื• ืื•ืชื™,
05:26
And going to college was the next step.
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ื”ื”ืœื™ื›ื” ืœืงื•ืœื’' ื”ื™ืชื” ื”ืฆืขื“ ื”ื‘ื.
05:30
I was excited to take my intellectual drive and interest in the world of ideas
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ื”ืชืจื’ืฉืชื™ ืœืงื—ืช ืืช ื”ื“ื—ืฃ ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืœืงื˜ื•ืืœื™, ื•ื”ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืฉืœื™ ื‘ืขื•ืœื
05:33
to the next level.
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ืœืฉืœื‘ ื”ื‘ื.
05:35
I was eager to engage in lively debate with peers and professors
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืœื”ื•ื˜ ืœืงื—ืช ื—ืœืง ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืŸ ืชื•ืกืก ืขื ืขืžื™ืชื™ื ื•ืคืจื•ืคืกื•ืจื™ื
05:40
and with outside speakers;
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ื•ืœืžืจืฆื™ื ื—ื™ืฆื•ื ื™ื™ื;
05:42
to listen, to learn and gain a deeper understanding of myself
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ืœื”ืงืฉื™ื‘, ืœืœืžื•ื“ ื•ืœื–ื›ื•ืช ื‘ื”ื‘ื ื” ืžืขืžื™ืงื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœ ืขืฆืžื™
05:46
and of others.
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ื•ืฉืœ ืื—ืจื™ื.
05:48
While I was fortunate to meet peers and professors
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ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉื”ืชืžื–ืœ ืžื–ืœื™ ืœื”ื™ืคื’ืฉ ืขื ืขืžื™ืชื™ื ื•ืคืจื•ืคืกื•ืจื™ื
05:51
who were interested in doing the same thing,
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ืฉื”ื™ื• ืžืขื•ื ื™ื™ื ื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืืช ืื•ืชื• ื”ื“ื‘ืจ,
05:54
my desire to engage with difficult ideas was also met with resistance.
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ื”ืจืฆื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™ ืœืขืกื•ืง ื‘ืจืขื™ื•ื ื•ืช ืงืฉื™ื ื ืชืงืœ ื’ื ื‘ื”ืชื ื’ื“ื•ืช.
06:00
To prepare myself to engage with controversy in the real world,
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื›ื™ืŸ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™ ืœืขืกื•ืง ืขื ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื”ืืžื™ืชื™,
06:05
I joined a group that brought controversial speakers to campus.
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ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคืชื™ ืœืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ืฉื”ื‘ื™ืื” ื“ื•ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื ื•ื™ื™ื ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ืœืงืžืคื•ืก.
06:09
But many people fiercely opposed this group,
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืžืื•ื“ ื”ืชื ื’ื“ื• ืœืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ื–ื•,
06:12
and I received significant pushback
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ื•ืงื™ื‘ืœืชื™ ืชื’ื•ื‘ื•ืช ืฉืœื™ืœื™ื•ืช ืžืฉืžืขื•ืชื™ื•ืช
06:14
from students, faculty and my administration.
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ืžืกื˜ื•ื“ื ื˜ื™ื, ืžืกื’ืœ ื”ื”ื•ืจืื” ื•ืžื”ื”ื ื”ืœื” ืฉืœื™.
06:20
For many, it was difficult to see
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ืœืจื‘ื™ื, ื”ื™ื” ืงืฉื” ืœืจืื•ืช
06:23
how bringing controversial speakers to campus could be valuable,
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ืื™ื–ื” ืขืจืš ื™ืฉ ื‘ื”ื‘ืืช ื“ื•ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื ื•ื™ื™ื ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ืœืงืžืคื•ืก,
06:26
when they caused harm.
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ื›ืฉื”ื ื’ืจืžื• ืœื ื–ืง.
06:28
And it was disappointing to me facing personal attacks,
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ื•ื”ื”ืชืงืคื•ืช ื”ืื™ืฉื™ื•ืช ืขืœื™ ื’ืจืžื• ืœื™ ืœืื›ื–ื‘ื•ืช,
06:32
having my administration cancel speakers
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ืœืจืื•ืช ืืช ื”ื”ื ื”ืœื” ืฉืœื™ ืžื‘ื˜ืœืช ื“ื•ื‘ืจื™ื
06:34
and hearing my intentions distorted by those around me.
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ื•ืœืฉืžื•ืข ืืช ื›ื•ื•ื ื•ืชื™ื™ ืžืขื•ื•ืชื•ืช ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืกื•ื‘ื‘ื™ื ืื•ืชื™.
06:39
My work also hurt the feelings of many,
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ืขื‘ื•ื“ืชื™ ื’ื ืคื’ืขื” ื‘ืจื’ืฉื•ืชื™ื”ื ืฉืœ ืจื‘ื™ื,
06:42
and I understood that.
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ื•ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ืืช ื–ื”.
06:45
Of course, no one likes being offended,
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ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ, ืฉืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืœื ืื•ื”ื‘ ืฉืžืขืœื™ื‘ื™ื ืื•ืชื•,
06:47
and I certainly don't like hearing controversial speakers
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ื•ืื ื™ ื‘ื”ื—ืœื˜ ืœื ืื•ื”ื‘ ืœืฉืžื•ืข ื“ื•ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื ื•ื™ื™ื ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช
06:50
argue that feminism has become a war against men
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ื˜ื•ืขื ื™ื ืฉื”ืคืžื™ื ื™ื–ื ื”ืคืš ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืœื—ืžื” ื ื’ื“ ื’ื‘ืจื™ื
06:54
or that blacks have lower IQs than whites.
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ืื• ืฉืœืฉื—ื•ืจื™ื ื™ืฉ ืžื ืช ืžืฉื›ืœ ื ืžื•ื›ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืืฉืจ ืœืœื‘ื ื™ื.
06:57
I also understand
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ืื ื™ ื’ื ืžื‘ื™ืŸ
06:59
that some people have experienced traumatic experiences in their lives.
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ืฉื›ืžื” ืื ืฉื™ื ื—ื•ื• ืืจื•ืขื™ื ื˜ืจืื•ืžื˜ื™ื™ื ื‘ื—ื™ื™ื”ื.
07:05
And for some, listening to offensive views
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ื•ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœ ื›ืžื” ืžื”ื, ืœื”ืงืฉื™ื‘ ืœื“ืขื•ืช ืคื•ื’ืขื ื™ื•ืช
07:08
can be like reliving the very traumas that they've worked so hard to overcome.
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ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขื•ืจืจ ืžื—ื“ืฉ ื˜ืจืื•ืžื•ืช ืฉื”ืชืืžืฆื• ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืœื”ืชื’ื‘ืจ ืขืœื™ื”ืŸ.
07:13
Many argue that by giving these people a platform,
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ืจื‘ื™ื ื˜ื•ืขื ื™ื ืฉืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื ืชื™ื ืช ืคืœื˜ืคื•ืจืžื” ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืืœื”,
07:16
you're doing more harm than good,
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ื ื’ืจื ื™ื•ืชืจ ื ื–ืง ืžืืฉืจ ืชื•ืขืœืช,
07:18
and I'm reminded of this every time I listen to these points of view
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ื•ืื ื™ ื ื–ื›ืจ ื‘ื–ื” ื‘ื›ืœ ืคืขื ืฉืื ื™ ืžืงืฉื™ื‘ ืœื ืงื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ืžื‘ื˜ ื”ืืœื”
07:22
and feel my stomach turn.
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ื•ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืืช ื”ื‘ื˜ืŸ ืฉืœื™ ืžืชื”ืคื›ืช.
07:25
Yet, tuning out opposing viewpoints doesn't make them go away,
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ืขื ื–ืืช, ื”ืชืขืœืžื•ืช ืžื ืงื•ื“ื•ืช ืžื‘ื˜ ืžื ื•ื’ื“ื•ืช ืœื ื’ื•ืจื ืœื”ืŸ ืœื”ืกืชืœืง,
07:28
because millions of people agree with them.
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ื›ื™ ืžื™ืœื™ื•ื ื™ ืื ืฉื™ื ืžืกื›ื™ืžื™ื ืื™ืชืŸ.
07:31
In order to understand the potential of society
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ืขืœ ืžื ืช ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ืคื•ื˜ื ืฆื™ืืœ ืฉืœ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื”
07:33
to progress forward,
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ืœื”ืชืงื“ื,
07:35
we need to understand the counterforces.
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ืขืœื™ื ื• ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื ื›ื•ื—ื•ืช ืฉืžื ื’ื“.
07:39
By engaging with controversial and offensive ideas,
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ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืชืžื•ื“ื“ื•ืช ืขื ืจืขื™ื•ื ื•ืช ืฉื ื•ื™ื™ื ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ื•ืคื•ื’ืขื ื™ื™ื,
07:43
I believe that we can find common ground,
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ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ืŸ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืฆื•ื ื‘ืกื™ืก ืžืฉื•ืชืฃ,
07:46
if not with the speakers themselves,
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ืื ืœื ืขื ื”ื“ื•ื‘ืจื™ื ืขืฆืžื,
07:49
then with the audiences they may attract or indoctrinate.
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ืื– ืขื ื”ืงื”ืœื™ื ืฉื”ื ืขืฉื•ื™ื™ื ืœืžืฉื•ืš ืื• ืœื”ื˜ื™ืฃ ืœื”ื.
07:53
Through engaging, I believe that we may reach a better understanding,
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ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ืžืขื•ืจื‘ื•ืช, ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ืŸ ืฉืื ื• ืขืฉื•ื™ื™ื ืœื”ื’ื™ืข ืœื”ื‘ื ื” ื˜ื•ื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ,
07:58
a deeper understanding,
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ื”ื‘ื ื” ืขืžื•ืงื” ื™ื•ืชืจ,
08:00
of our own beliefs
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ืฉืœ ื”ืืžื•ื ื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•
08:01
and preserve the ability to solve problems,
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ื•ืœืฉืžืจ ืืช ื”ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ืฉืœื ื• ืœืคืชื•ืจ ื‘ืขื™ื•ืช,
08:05
which we can't do if we don't talk to each other
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ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืื ืœื ื ื“ื‘ืจ ื–ื” ืขื ื–ื”
08:08
and make an effort to be good listeners.
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ื•ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืืžืฅ ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืื–ื™ื ื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื.
08:12
But soon after I announced
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ืžืŸ ืงืฆืจ ืœืื—ืจ ืฉื”ื›ืจื–ืชื™
08:13
that John Derbyshire would be speaking on campus,
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ืฉื’'ื•ืŸ ื“ืจื‘ื™ืฉื™ื™ืจ ื™ื“ื‘ืจ ื‘ืงืžืคื•ืก,
08:16
student backlash erupted on social media.
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ื”ืชืขื•ืจืจื• ื”ืชืคืจืฆื•ื™ื•ืช ืกื˜ื•ื“ื ื˜ื™ื ื‘ืžื“ื™ื” ื”ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช.
08:19
The tide of resistance, in fact, was so intense,
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ืจืžืช ื”ื”ืชื ื’ื“ื•ืช ื”ื™ืชื” ืœืžืขืฉื”, ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืื™ื ื˜ื ืกื™ื‘ื™ืช,
08:22
that my college president rescinded the invitation.
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ืฉื ืฉื™ื ื”ืžื›ืœืœื” ืฉืœื™ ื‘ื™ื˜ืœ ืืช ื”ื”ื–ืžื ื”.
08:25
I was deeply disappointed by this because, as I saw it,
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืื•ื“ ืžืื•ื›ื–ื‘ ื›ื™ ื›ืคื™ ืฉืจืื™ืชื™ ืืช ื–ื”,
08:28
there would be nothing that any of my peers or I could do
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ืœื ื™ื”ื™ื” ื“ื‘ืจ ืฉืื ื™ ืื• ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืžืขืžื™ืชื™ ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœืขืฉื•ืช
08:32
to silence someone who agreed with him
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืฉืชื™ืง ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืฉื”ืกื›ื™ื ืื™ืชื•
08:34
in the office environment of our future employers.
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ื‘ืกื‘ื™ื‘ืช ื”ืžืฉืจื“ ืฉืœ ื”ืžืขืกื™ืงื™ื ื”ืขืชื™ื“ื™ื™ื ืฉืœื ื•.
08:38
I look out at what's happening on college campuses,
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ืื ื™ ืžื‘ื™ื˜ ื‘ืžื” ืฉืงื•ืจื” ื‘ืงืžืคื•ืกื™ื,
08:41
and I see the anger.
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ื•ืื ื™ ืจื•ืื” ืืช ื”ื›ืขืก.
08:42
And I get it.
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื–ื”.
08:44
But what I wish I could tell people is that it's worth the discomfort,
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ืื‘ืœ ืžื” ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื•ืžืจ ืœืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื•ื ืฉื–ื” ืฉื•ื•ื” ืืช ืื™ ื”ื ื•ื—ื•ืช,
08:48
it's worth listening,
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ืฉื•ื•ื” ืœื”ืงืฉื™ื‘,
08:49
and that we're stronger, not weaker, because of it.
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ื•ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื—ื–ืงื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ, ืœื ื—ืœืฉื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ, ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื–ื”.
08:54
When I think about my experiences with uncomfortable learning,
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ื›ืฉืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืขืœ ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื™ ืขื ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืœื ื ื•ื—ื”,
08:59
and I reflect upon them,
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžื”ืจื”ืจ ืขืœ ื›ืš,
09:02
I've found that it's been very difficult to change the values
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ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืฉื”ื™ื” ืงืฉื” ืžืื•ื“ ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืืช ื”ืขืจื›ื™ื
09:06
of the intellectual community that I've been a part of.
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ืฉืœ ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื” ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืœืงื˜ื•ืืœื™ืช ืฉืื ื™ ื—ืœืง ืžืžื ื”.
09:10
But I do feel a sense of hope
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ืื‘ืœ ื™ืฉ ืœื™ ืชื—ื•ืฉื” ืฉืœ ืชืงื•ื•ื”
09:12
when I think about the individual interactions that I've been able to have
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ื›ืฉืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืขืœ ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจืืงืฆื™ื•ืช ื”ืคืจื˜ื™ื•ืช ืฉื”ื™ื• ืœื™
09:15
with students who both support the work that I'm doing
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ืขื ืกื˜ื•ื“ื ื˜ื™ื ืฉื’ื ืชื•ืžื›ื™ื ื‘ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืฉืื ื™ ืขื•ืฉื”
09:18
and who feel challenged by it and who do not support it.
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ื•ื’ื ื›ืืœื” ืฉืžืื•ืชื’ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื” ื•ืื™ื ื ืชื•ืžื›ื™ื ื‘ื”.
09:23
What I've found is that,
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ืžื” ืฉืžืฆืืชื™ ื”ื•ื,
09:24
while it can be difficult to change the values of a community,
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ืฉื‘ืขื•ื“ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืงืฉื” ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืืช ืขืจื›ื™ ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื”,
09:27
we can gain a lot from individual interactions.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืจื•ื•ื™ื— ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžืื™ื ื˜ืจืืงืฆื™ื•ืช ืื™ืฉื™ื•ืช.
09:31
While I didn't get to engage with John Derbyshire
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ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉืœื ื”ื–ื“ืžืŸ ืœื™ ืœืคืขื•ืœ ืขื ื’'ื•ืŸ ื“ืจื‘ื™ืฉื™ื™ืจ
09:34
due to my president's disinvitation,
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ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื‘ื™ื˜ื•ืœ ื”ื”ื–ืžื ื” ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ื ืฉื™ื ืฉืœื™,
09:36
I was able to have dinner with Charles Murray before his talk.
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ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืื›ื•ืœ ืืจื•ื—ืช ืขืจื‘ ืขื ืฆ'ืจืœืก ืžื•ืจื™ื™ ืœืคื ื™ ื”ืฉื™ื—ื” ืฉืœื•.
09:42
I knew the conversation would be difficult.
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ื™ื“ืขืชื™ ืฉื”ืฉื™ื—ื” ืชื”ื™ื” ืงืฉื”.
09:44
And I didn't expect it to be pleasant.
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ื•ืœื ืฆื™ืคื™ืชื™ ืฉื”ื™ื ืชื”ื™ื” ื ืขื™ืžื”.
09:47
But it was cordial, and I did gain a deeper understanding of his arguments.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื‘ื‘ื™ืช, ื•ืื ื™ ื–ื›ื™ืชื™ ื‘ื”ื‘ื ื” ืžืขืžื™ืงื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœ ื˜ื™ืขื•ื ื™ื•.
09:53
I found that he, like me, believed in creating a more just society.
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ืžืฆืืชื™ ืฉื”ื•ื, ื›ืžื•ื ื™, ื”ืืžื™ืŸ ื‘ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ื—ื‘ืจื” ืฆื•ื“ืงืช ื™ื•ืชืจ.
09:58
The thing is, his understanding of what justice entailed
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ื”ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื”ื•ื, ืฉื”ื”ื‘ื ื” ืฉืœื• ืฉืœ ืžื” ืฉื”ืฆื“ืง ื›ืจื•ืš ื‘ื•
10:02
was very different from my own.
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ื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื ื” ืžืื•ื“ ืžืฉืœื™.
10:04
The way in which he wanted to understand the issue,
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ื”ื“ืจืš ืฉื‘ื” ื”ื•ื ืจืฆื” ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ื‘ืขื™ื”,
10:07
the way in which he wanted to approach the issue of inequality
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ื”ืื•ืคืŸ ืฉื‘ื• ื”ื•ื ืจืฆื” ืœื’ืฉืช ืœืกื•ื’ื™ื™ืช ืื™ ื”ืฉื•ื•ื™ื•ืŸ
10:10
also differed from my own.
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ื”ื™ืชื” ื’ื ื›ืŸ ืฉื•ื ื” ืžืฉืœื™.
10:12
And I found that his understanding of issues like welfare
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ื•ืžืฆืืชื™ ืฉื”ื”ื‘ื ื” ืฉืœื• ืฉืœ ื ื•ืฉืื™ื ื›ืžื• ืจื•ื•ื—ื”
10:15
and affirmative action
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ื•ื”ืขื“ืคื” ืžืชืงื ืช
10:17
was tied and deeply rooted
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ื”ื™ื• ืงืฉื•ืจื™ื ื•ืžื•ืฉืจืฉื™ื ืขืžื•ืง
10:19
in his understanding of various libertarian and conservative beliefs,
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ื‘ื”ื‘ื ืชื• ืืžื•ื ื•ืช ืœื™ื‘ืจื˜ืจื™ืื ื™ื•ืช ื•ืฉืžืจื ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื•ืช.
10:23
what diminishes and increases their presence in our society.
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ืžื” ืžืคื—ื™ืช ื•ืžื’ื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื ื•ื›ื—ื•ืชื ื‘ื—ื‘ืจื” ืฉืœื ื•.
10:27
While he expressed his viewpoints eloquently,
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ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉื”ื•ื ื”ื‘ื™ืข ืืช ื ืงื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ืžื‘ื˜ ืฉืœื• ื‘ืจื”ื™ื˜ื•ืช,
10:30
I remained thoroughly unconvinced.
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ื ืฉืืจืชื™ ืœื’ืžืจื™ ืœื ืžืฉื•ื›ื ืข.
10:32
But I did walk away with a deeper understanding.
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื”ืœื›ืชื™ ืžืฉื ืขื ื”ื‘ื ื” ืขืžื•ืงื” ื™ื•ืชืจ.
10:36
It's my belief
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ื–ืืช ื”ืืžื•ื ื” ืฉืœื™
10:39
that to achieve progress in the face of adversity,
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ืฉื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืฉื™ื’ ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ืช ื‘ื”ืชืžื•ื“ื“ื•ืช ื‘ืžืฆื•ืงื•ืช,
10:43
we need a genuine commitment
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ืื ื• ื–ืงื•ืงื™ื ืœืžื—ื•ื™ื‘ื•ืช ืืžื™ืชื™ืช
10:46
to gaining a deeper understanding of humanity.
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื–ื›ื•ืช ื‘ื”ื‘ื ื” ืขืžื•ืงื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœ ื”ืื ื•ืฉื•ืช
10:50
I'd like to see a world with more leaders
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืจืื•ืช ืขื•ืœื ืขื ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื ื”ื™ื’ื™ื
10:52
who are familiar with the depths of the views
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ืืฉืจ ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ื“ืขื•ืช ืœืขื•ืžืงืŸ
10:54
of those they deeply disagree with,
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ืฉืœ ืืœื” ืฉืื™ืชื ื”ื ืื™ื ื ืžืกื›ื™ืžื™ื ื‘ืขืœื™ืœ.
10:58
so that they can understand the nuances of everyone they're representing.
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ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื™ื•ื›ืœื• ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ื ื™ื•ืื ืกื™ื ืฉืœ ื›ืœ ืžื™ ืฉื”ื ืžื™ื™ืฆื’ื™ื.
11:03
I see this as an ongoing process involving constant learning,
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ืื ื™ ืจื•ืื” ืืช ื–ื” ื›ืชื”ืœื™ืš ืžืชืžืฉืš ืฉื›ื•ืœืœ ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืžืชืžื“ืช,
11:07
and I'm confident that I'll be able to add value down the line
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ื•ืื ื™ ื‘ื˜ื•ื— ืฉืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ื•ืกื™ืฃ ืชื•ืขืœืช ืœืื•ืจืš ื”ืงื•
11:11
if I continue building empathy and understanding
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ืื ืืžืฉื™ืš ืœื‘ื ื•ืช ืืžืคืชื™ื” ื•ื”ื‘ื ื”
11:13
through engaging with unfamiliar perspectives.
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ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ืขื™ืกื•ืง ืขื ืคืจืกืคืงื˜ื™ื‘ื•ืช ืœื ืžื•ื›ืจื•ืช.
11:16
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื”
11:17
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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