Tom Shannon: The painter and the pendulum

Prevoditelj: Tilen Pigac - EFZG Recezent: Mislav Ante Omazić - EFZG

John Hockenberry: It's great to be here with you, Tom.

John Hockenberry: Super je biti ovdje s tobom Tom.

And I want to start with a question

I želim započeti s pitanjem

that has just been consuming me

koje me prožimalo

since I first became familiar with your work.

otkad sam se prvi put upoznao s tvojim radom.

In you work there's always this kind of hybrid quality

U tvom radu postoji uvijek ta neka vrsta hibridne kvalitete

of a natural force

prirodne sile

in some sort of interplay with creative force.

u nekoj vrsti međuigre s kreativnom silom.

Are they ever in equilibrium

Jesu li one ikada u ravnoteži

in the way that you see your work?

na način na koji ti vidiš svoj rad?

Tom Shannon: Yeah, the subject matter that I'm looking for,

Tom Shannon: Tema koju ja tražim

it's usually to solve a question.

je obično vezana uz rješavanje pitanja.

I had the question popped into my head:

Sinulo mi je pitanje u glavu

What does the cone that connects the sun and the Earth look like

kako stožac koji povezuje sunce i zemlju izgleda

if you could connect the two spheres?

kada spojite dvije sfere?

And in proportion, what would the size of the sphere

I u proporciji, kako bi veličina sfere

and the length, and what would the taper be to the Earth?

i dužina, i što bi bio šiljak okrenut prema zemlji?

And so I went about and made that sculpture,

I stoga sam se pozabavio time i izradio ovu skulpturu,

turning it out of solid bronze.

od čiste bronce.

And I did one that was about 35 feet long.

I izradio sam jednu koja je bila oko 11 metara dugačka.

The sun end was about four inches in diameter,

Kraj kod sunca je bio oko 10 centimetara u promjeru,

and then it tapered over about 35 feet

a šiljak je bio preko 11 metara

to about a millimeter at the Earth end.

do oko milimetar na zemljinom kraju.

And so for me, it was really exciting

I tako je za mene, bilo je uistinu uzbudljivo

just to see what it looks like

samo vidjeti kako izgleda

if you could step outside and into a larger context,

kada biste mogli iskoračiti u veći kontekst,

as though you were an astronaut,

kao da ste astronaut,

and see these two things as an object,

i vidjeti te dvije stvari kao predmet,

because they are so intimately bound,

jer su tako intimno povezane.

and one is meaningless without the other.

Jedan bez drugog nemaju smisla.

JH: Is there a relief

JH: Postoji li olakšanje

in playing with these forces?

u igranju s tim silama?

And I'm wondering how much of a sense of discovery there is

I pitam se koliko smislenog otkrića ima

in playing with these forces.

u igranju s tim silama.

TS: Well, like the magnetically levitated objects --

TS: Pa, poput magnetsko levitirajućih predmeta

like that silver one there,

poput onog srebrnog tamo.

that was the result

To je bio rezultat

of hundreds of experiments with magnets,

stotina pokusa s magnetima,

trying to find a way to make something float

pokušavajući naći način da nešto pluta

with the least possible connection to the ground.

s najmanjom mogućom povezanosti s tlom.

So I got it down to just one tether

Stoga sam uspio to smanjiti na samo jedan konopac

to be able to support that.

koji će to podupirati.

JH: Now is this electromagnetic here, or are these static?

JH: Sada je li ovo ovdje elektromagnetsko ili su one statičke?

TS: Those are permanent magnets, yeah.

TS: To su trajni magneti, da.

JH: Because if the power went out, there would just be a big noise.

JH: Jer kada bi struje nestalo, ostala bi samo velika buka.

TS: Yeah.

TS: Da.

It's really unsatisfactory having plug-in art.

Doista je nezadovoljavajuće imati umjetnost koja se ušteka.

JH: I agree.

JH: Slažem se.

TS: The magnetic works

TS: Magnetsko djelovanje

are a combination of gravity and magnetism,

je kombinacija gravitacije i magnetizma,

so it's a kind of mixture of these ambient forces

stoga je to neka vrsta tih ambijentalnih slika

that influence everything.

koje utječu na sve.

The sun has a tremendous field

Sunce ima ogromno polje

that extends way beyond the planets

koje se proteže daleko iza planeta.

and the Earth's magnetic field protects us from the sun.

A zemljino magnetsko polje nas štiti od sunca.

So there's this huge

Stoga postoje tu te ogromne

invisible shape structures

nevidljive strukture oblikovanja

that magnetism takes in the universe.

koje magnetizam nosi u svemir.

But with the pendulum,

Ali s njihalom,

it allows me to manifest

dozvoljava mi odraziti

these invisible forces

te nevidljive sile

that are holding the magnets up.

koje drže magnete u zraku.

My sculptures

Moje skulpture

are normally very simplified.

su normalno veoma pojednostavljene.

I try to refine them down

Pokušavam ih pročititi

to very simple forms.

na vrlo jednostavne oblike.

But the paintings become very complex,

Ali slike postaju jako kompleksne,

because I think the fields

jer mislim kako polja

that are supporting them,

koja ih podržavaju,

they're billowing, and they're interpenetrating,

stvaraju valove i interpenetriraju,

and they're interference patterns.

i ona su uzorci smetnji.

JH: And they're non-deterministic.

JH: I one su nedeterminističke.

I mean, you don't know necessarily where you're headed when you begin,

Mislim, ne znaš nužno kuda ideš kada počneš,

even though the forces can be calculated.

čak i ako se sile mogu izračunati.

So the evolution of this --

Stoga evolucija ovoga --

I gather this isn't your first pendulum.

pretpostavljam kako ovo nije tvoje prvo njihalo.

TS: No. (JH: No.)

TS: Ne. (JH: Ne.)

TS: The first one I did was in the late 70's,

TS: Prvo koje sam napravio je bilo kasnih 70-ih,

and I just had a simple cone

i imao sam samo jednostavan stožac

with a spigot at the bottom of it.

sa čepom na kraju.

I threw it into an orbit,

Bacio sam ga u orbitu,

and it only had one color,

i imalo je samo jednu boju,

and when it got to the center, the paint kept running out,

i kada sam ga donio u centar, boja je silazila dolje,

so I had to run in there,

stoga sam ga morao tamo koristiti,

didn't have any control over the spigot remotely.

nisam imao nikakvu kontrolu nad čepom.

So that told me right away: I need a remote control device.

Stoga mi je to odmah reklo kako trebam uređaj za daljinsku kontrolu.

But then I started dreaming of having six colors.

Ali onda sam počeo sanjati o šest boja.

I sort of think about it as the DNA --

Na neki način mislim o tome kao DNK --

these colors, the red, blue, yellow,

te boje, crvena, plava, žuta,

the primary colors and white and black.

primarne boje i bijela i crna.

And if you put them together in different combinations --

I ako ih stavite zajedno u različitim kombinacijama --

just like printing in a sense,

na neki način poput printanja,

like how a magazine color is printed --

kao što je boja u časopisu isprintana --

and put them under certain forces,

i stavim ih pod djelovanje određenih sila,

which is orbiting them

što znači njihovo orbitiranje

or passing them back and forth

ili njihovo premještanje naprijed i natrag

or drawing with them,

ili crtanje s njima,

these amazing things started appearing.

te čudnovate stvari su se počele pojavljivati.

JH: It looks like we're loaded for bear here.

JH: Čini se kao da se ovdje pripremamo za sezonu lova na medvjede.

TS: Yeah, well let's put a couple of canvases.

TS: Da, pa stavimo nekoliko platna.

I'll ask a couple of my sons

Zamolit ću par mojih sinova

to set up the canvases here.

kako bi posložili ovdje platna.

I want to just say --

Reći ću samo kako --

so this is Jack, Nick and Louie.

dakle, to su Jack, Nick i Louie.

JH: Thanks guys.

JH: Hvala momci.

TS: So here are the --

TS: Dakle, ovdje su --

JH: All right, I'll get out of the way here.

JH: U redu. Maknut ću se s puta.

TS: I'm just going to throw this into an orbit

TS: Samo ću baciti ovo u orbitu

and see if I can paint everybody's shoes in the front.

i vidjeti mogu li naslikati svačije cipele sprijeda.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

JH: Whoa. That is ...

JH: Wow. Ovo je ...

ooh, nice.

Ooh. Lijepo.

TS: So something like this.

TS: Dakle, nešto poput ovoga.

I'm doing this as a demo,

Radim ovo kao demonstraciju,

and it's more playful,

i više je zaigrano.

but inevitably,

Ali neizbježno,

all of this can be used.

sve ovo se može iskoristiti.

I can redeem this painting,

Mogu ispuniti ovu sliku,

just continuing on,

samo nastavljati

doing layers upon layers.

stavljati sloj na sloj.

And I keep it around for a couple of weeks,

I držim to okolo na par tjedana.

and I'm contemplating it,

I kontempliram,

and I'll do another session with it

i napraviti ću još jednu seriju s time

and bring it up to another level,

i dovesti na iduću razinu,

where all of this

gdje sve to

becomes the background, the depth of it.

postaje pozadina, dubina svega toga.

JH: That's fantastic.

JH: To je fantastično.

So the valves at the bottom of those tubes there

Stoga su ventili na krajevima cijevi ovdje

are like radio-controlled airplane valves.

poput radio kontroliranih avionskih ventila.

TS: Yes, they're servos with cams

TS: Da, to su servi s kamerama

that pinch these rubber tubes.

koji prikliješte te gumene cijevi.

And they can pinch them very tight and stop it,

I mogu ih prikliještiti vrlo čvrsto i zaustaviti ih,

or you can have them wide open.

ili ih mogu širom otvoriti.

And all of the colors

A sve boje

come out one central port

izađu van iz jednog središnjeg otvora

at the bottom.

na dnu.

You can always be changing colors, put aluminum paint,

Uvijek možete mijenjati boje, staviti aluminijsku boju,

or I could put anything into this.

ili mogu staviti bilo što u to.

It could be tomato sauce,

Može biti umak od rajčice,

or anything could be dispensed --

ili bilo što može biti upotrijebljeno --

sand, powders or anything like that.

pijesak, prah, bilo što poput toga.

JH: So many forces there.

JH: Toliko mnogo sila je ovdje.

You've got gravity, you've got the centrifugal force,

Imate gravitacijsku, imate centrifugalnu silu,

you've got the fluid dynamics.

imate fluidnu dinamiku.

Each of these beautiful paintings,

Svaka od tih prekrasnih slika,

are they images in and of themselves,

je svoja iznutra

or are they records

ili je snimka

of a physical event

fizičkog događaja

called the pendulum approaching the canvas?

zvana njihalo koje se približava platnu?

TS: Well, this painting here,

TS: Pa, ova slika ovdje,

I wanted to do something very simple,

htio sam učiniti nešto jako jednostavno,

a simple, iconic image

jednostavnu, ikonsku sliku

of two ripples interfering.

dva žubora koja se isprepliću.

So the one on the right was done first,

Dakle, onaj s desne je prvi napravljen,

and then the one on the left

a zatim je onaj s lijeve strane

was done over it.

napravljen preko njega.

And then I left gaps

I zatim sam ostavio praznine

so you could see the one that was done before.

tako da možete vidjeti onaj koji je napravljen prije.

And then when I did the second one,

A zatim kada sam napravio drugi,

it really disturbed the piece --

doista je poremetio mir --

these big blue lines

te velike plave linije

crashing through the center of it --

koje udaraju kroz centar toga.

and so it created a kind of tension and an overlap.

I stoga je to kreiralo neku vrstu napetosti i preklapanja.

There are lines in front of the one on the right,

Tamo su linije ispred onoga s desne strane,

and there are lines behind the one on the left,

i tamo su linije iza onoga s lijeve strane.

and so it takes it into different planes.

I stoga ih nosi u različita područja.

What it's also about,

Ono o čemu se radi,

just the little events,

samo mali događaji,

the events of the interpenetration of --

događaji koji interpretiraju --

JH: Two stars, or --

JH: Dvije zvijezde, ili --

TS: Two things that happened --

TS: Dvije stvari koje su se dogodile,

there's an interference pattern, and then a third thing happens.

postoji uzorak preklapanja i zatim se treća stvar dogodi.

There are shapes that come about

Postoje oblici koji dolaze

just by the marriage

samo do braka

of two events that are happening,

dva događaja koji se događaju.

and I'm very interested in that.

I to me jako interesira.

Like the occurrence of moire patterns.

Poput ponavljanja uzoraka mramornih oblika.

Like this green one,

Poput ove zelene,

this is a painting I did about 10 years ago,

ovo je slika koju sam napravio prije 10 godina.

but it has some --

Ali ima neke --

see, in the upper third --

vidite, u gornjoj trećini --

there are these moires and interference patterns

postoje ti mramorasti oblici i uzorci preplitanja

that are radio kind of imagery.

koji su vrsta radio zamišljanja.

And that's something that in painting

A to je nešto u slikarstvu

I've never seen done.

što nikada nisam vidio.

I've never seen a representation

Nikada nisam vidio prikaz

of a kind of radio interference patterns,

neke vrste uzoraka radio preplitanja,

which are so ubiquitous

koji su toliko sveprisutni

and such an important part of our lives.

i toliko važni dijelovi naših života.

JH: Is that a literal part of the image,

JH: Je li to doslovni dio slike,

or is my eye making that interference pattern --

ili se u mojim očima stvara uzorak preplitanja?

is my eye completing that interference pattern?

Dovršavam li ja taj uzorak preplitanja?

TS: It is the paint actually,

TS: Slika je zapravo,

makes it real.

čini stvarnom.

It's really manifested there.

To je uistinu prikazano ovdje.

If I throw a very concentric circle,

Ukoliko ubacim jako koncentričan krug,

or concentric ellipse,

ili koncentričnu elipsu,

it just dutifully makes

samo poslušno napravi

these evenly spaced lines,

te jednako razmaknute linije,

which get closer and closer together,

koje se sve više približavaju,

which describes how gravity works.

što objašnjava kako gravitacija funkcionira.

There's something very appealing

Postoji nešto vrlo privlačno

about the exactitude of science

o točnosti znanosti

that I really enjoy.

u kojoj doista uživam.

And I love the shapes that I see

I volim oblike koje vidim

in scientific observations

u znanstvenim opažanjima

and apparatus,

i aparatima,

especially astronomical forms

naročito astronomske forme

and the idea of the vastness of it,

i ideju o prostornosti iste,

the scale,

ljestvica,

is very interesting to me.

mi je jako zanimljiva.

My focus in recent years

Moj fokus se s godinama

has kind of shifted more toward biology.

više nagnuo prema biologiji.

Some of these paintings, when you look at them very close,

Neke od tih slika, kada ih pogledate iz neposredne blizine,

odd things appear

čudne stvari se pojave

that really look like horses or birds

koje doista izgledaju poput konja ili ptica

or crocodiles, elephants.

ili krokodila, slonova.

There are lots of things that appear.

Ima puno stvari koje se pojavljuju.

When you look into it, it's sort of like looking at cloud patterns,

Kada pogledate u njih, to je nešto nalik na uzorak oblaka,

but sometimes they're very modeled and highly rendered.

ali ponekad su jako modelirani i imaju visoku rezoluciju.

And then there are all these forms

I zatim su tu svi ti oblici

that we don't know what they are,

za koje ne znamo što su,

but they're equally well-resolved

ali oni su jednako tako dobro riješeni

and complex.

i kompleksni.

So I think, conceivably, those could be predictive.

Stoga mislim, jako smisleno, oni se mogu predvidjeti.

Because since it has the ability

Jer kako ima mogućnost

to make forms

poprimanja oblika

that look like forms that we're familiar with

koji izgledaju poput oblika s kojima smo mi upoznati

in biology,

u biologiji,

it's also making other forms that we're not familiar with.

isto tako poprimaju druge oblike s kojima nismo upoznati.

And maybe it's the kind of forms

I možda će neke vrste oblika

we'll discover underneath the surface of Mars,

netko otkriti ispod površine Marsa,

where there are probably lakes

gdje se vjerojatno nalaze jezera

with fish swimming under the surface.

s ribama koje plivaju ispod površine.

JH: Oh, let's hope so. Oh, my God, let's.

JH: Oh, nadajmo se. O, moj Bože, da bar.

Oh, please, yes. Oh, I'm so there.

O, molim te, da. O, toliko sam u tome.

You know, it seems

Znate, čini se

at this stage in your life,

u ovoj fazi vašeg života,

you also very personally

vi ste isto jako osobno

are in this state of confrontation

u tom stanju konfrontacije

with a sort of dissonant --

s nekom vrstom disonancije --

I suppose it's an electromagnetic force

pretpostavljam kako je to elektromagnetska sila

that somehow governs your Parkinson's

koja nekako vlada Parkinsonovom

and this creative force

i ta kreativna sila

that is both the artist

koja je i umjetnik

who is in the here and now

koji je ovdje i sada

and this sort of arc of your whole life.

i taj cijeli luk vašeg života.

Is that relevant to your work?

Je li to važno za vaš rad?

TS: As it turns out,

TS: Ispostavlja se,

this device kind of comes in handy,

ta naprava je prilično priručna,

because I don't have to have

jer ne moram imati

the fine motor skills to do,

dobre motoričke vještine kako bih radio,

that I can operate slides,

da mogu upravljati slajdovima,

which is more of a mental process.

što je više mentalni proces.

I'm looking at it and making decisions:

Gledam u to i donosim odluke.

It needs more red, it needs more blue,

Potrebno je više crvene, potrebno je više plave,

it needs a different shape.

potreban je drugačiji oblik.

And so I make these creative decisions

I stoga donosim te kreativne odluke

and can execute them

i izvršavam ih

in a much, much simpler way.

na bitno, bitno jednostavniji način.

I mean, I've got the symptoms.

Mislim, imam simptome.

I guess Parkinson's kind of creeps up over the years,

Nagađam kako se Parkinsonova nekako potkrade tijekom godina,

but at a certain point you start seeing the symptoms.

ali u određenoj točki počnete vidjeti simptome.

In my case,

U mom slučaju,

my left hand has a significant tremor

moja lijeva ruka ima poprilično podrhtavanje

and my left leg also.

kao i moja lijeva noga.

I'm left-handed, and so I draw.

Lijevoruk sam i mislim da je to zato.

All my creations

Sve moje kreacije

really start on small drawings,

zapravo počinju na malim crtežima,

which I have thousands of,

kojih imam na tisuće.

and it's my way of just thinking.

I to je moj način samo razmišljanja.

I draw with a simple pencil,

Crtam s običnom olovkom.

and at first, the Parkinson's

I isprva, Parkinsonova

was really upsetting,

me doista uznemirila

because I couldn't get the pencil to stand still.

jer nisam mogao držati mirno olovku.

JH: So you're not a gatekeeper for these forces.

JH: Dakle, vi niste čuvar tih sila.

You don't think of yourself as the master of these forces.

Ne razmišljate o sebi kao o majstoru tih sila.

You think of yourself as the servant.

Razmišljate o sebi kao o sluzi.

TS: Nature is -- well, it's a godsend.

TS: Priroda je -- pa, to je Bogom dano.

It just has so much in it.

Toliko je toga u tome.

And I think nature

I mislim kako se priroda

wants to express itself

želi izraziti

in the sense that we are nature,

na način da smo mi priroda,

humans are of the universe.

ljudi su dio svemira.

The universe is in our mind,

Svemir je u našem umu,

and our minds are in the universe.

a naši umovi su u svemiru.

And we are expressions

A mi smo ekspresije

of the universe, basically.

svemira, u osnovi.

As humans,

Kao ljudi,

ultimately being part of the universe,

ultimativno kao dio svemira,

we're kind of the spokespeople

mi smo na neki način zagovornici

or the observer part

ili promatrački dio

of the constituency

izborne jedinice

of the universe.

svemira.

And to interface with it,

A da bismo komunicirali s njime,

with a device that lets these forces

s napravom koja dopušta tim silama

that are everywhere

koje su posvuda

act and show what they can do,

da djeluju i pokažu što mogu učiniti,

giving them pigment and paint just like an artist,

dajući im pigment i boju baš poput umjetnika,

it's a good ally.

to je dobar saveznik.

It's a terrific studio assistant.

To je odličan asistent u studiju.

JH: Well, I love the idea

JH: Pa, sviđa mi se ideja

that somewhere within this idea

kako negdje unutar te ideje

of fine motion and control

glatke kretnje i kotrole

with the traditional skills

s tradicionalnim vještinama

that you have with your hand,

koje imate sa svojom rukom,

some sort of more elemental force gets revealed,

neka vrsta više elementarne sile bude otkrivena

and that's the beauty here.

a to je ovdje ljepota.

Tom, thank you so much. It's been really, really great.

Tom, puno ti hvala. Bilo je stvarno, stvarno odlično.

TS: Thank you, John.

TS: Hvala ti, John.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)