Tom Shannon: The painter and the pendulum

76,952 views ใƒป 2010-02-05

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Seung-Ean JIN ๊ฒ€ํ† : Bianca Lee
00:15
John Hockenberry: It's great to be here with you, Tom.
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์กด ํ˜ธ์ผ„๋ฒ ๋ฆฌ: ๋งŒ๋‚˜์„œ ๋ฐ˜๊ฐ€์›Œ์š”, ํƒ.
00:17
And I want to start with a question
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๋จผ์ € ์งˆ๋ฌธ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋กœ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜์ฃ .
00:19
that has just been consuming me
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์„ ์ ‘ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋‚˜์„œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
00:21
since I first became familiar with your work.
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๊ณ„์† ๊ถ๊ธˆํ–ˆ๋˜๊ฒŒ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
00:24
In you work there's always this kind of hybrid quality
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด ์ž์—ฐ์Šค๋Ÿฌ์›€๊ณผ
00:27
of a natural force
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์ฐฝ์˜์„ฑ์ด ์ƒํ˜ธ์ž‘์šฉ์„ ์ผ์œผํ‚ค๋Š”
00:30
in some sort of interplay with creative force.
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ํ•˜์ด๋ธŒ๋ฆฌ๋“œ์  ํŠน์„ฑ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
00:33
Are they ever in equilibrium
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์Šค์Šค๋กœ์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์„ ๋ณผ ๋•Œ
00:35
in the way that you see your work?
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ํ‰ํ˜•์„ ์ด๋ฃฐ ๋•Œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
00:37
Tom Shannon: Yeah, the subject matter that I'm looking for,
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ํƒ ์„€๋„Œ: ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ถ”๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
00:40
it's usually to solve a question.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค ์–ด๋–ค ํŠน์ •ํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•˜๋Š”๊ฑฐ์—์š”
00:42
I had the question popped into my head:
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๋จธ๋ฆฌ์— ๋– ์˜ค๋ฅด๋Š” ๋ฌธ์ œ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
00:44
What does the cone that connects the sun and the Earth look like
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๊ฐ€๋ น, ํ•ด์™€ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ์ž‡๋Š” ์›๋ฟ”์€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฒผ์„๊นŒ์š”?
00:48
if you could connect the two spheres?
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ํ•ด์™€ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด์š”.
00:51
And in proportion, what would the size of the sphere
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ตฌ์˜ ์‚ฌ์ด์ฆˆ์™€ ๊ธธ์ด,
00:54
and the length, and what would the taper be to the Earth?
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์›๋ฟ”์˜ ๋พฐ์กฑํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์€ ์ง€๊ตฌ์™€ ๋น„๋ก€ํ•˜๋ฉด ์–ด๋–จ๊นŒ์š”?
00:58
And so I went about and made that sculpture,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ๊ณ ์ฒด ๋ธŒ๋ก ์ฆˆ(๋™)๋กœ
01:01
turning it out of solid bronze.
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์กฐ๊ฐ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:04
And I did one that was about 35 feet long.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  35ํ”ผํŠธ ์ •๋„ ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์ฃ .
01:07
The sun end was about four inches in diameter,
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ํƒœ์–‘์ชฝ์€ ์ง€๋ฆ„์ด 4์ธ์น˜ ์ •๋„ ๋˜์—ˆ๊ณ 
01:10
and then it tapered over about 35 feet
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ํญ์ด 35ํ”ผํŠธ ๊ฐ€๋Ÿ‰ ์—์„œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
01:13
to about a millimeter at the Earth end.
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์ง€๊ตฌ์ชฝ์—์„œ๋Š” 1๋ฐ€๋ฆฌ๋ฏธํ„ฐ ์ •๋„๋กœ ์ข์•„์กŒ์ฃ .
01:16
And so for me, it was really exciting
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์ €์—๊ฒŒ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ธด ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ์ž์ฒด๋กœ
01:18
just to see what it looks like
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ํฅ๋ถ„๋˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
01:21
if you could step outside and into a larger context,
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ๋งˆ์น˜ ๋” ํฐ ๊ฒƒ์— ํ•œ ๋ฐœ์ง์„ ๋–ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ,
01:24
as though you were an astronaut,
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๋งˆ์น˜ ์šฐ์ฃผ ๋น„ํ–‰์‚ฌ๊ฐ€ ๋œ ๊ฒƒ ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ,
01:26
and see these two things as an object,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ฌผ์ฒด์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ณธ๋‹ค๋ฉด
01:29
because they are so intimately bound,
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์ด๋“ค์ด ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ์นœ๋ฐ€ํ•œ ๊ด€๊ณ„๋ฅผ ๋งบ๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
01:32
and one is meaningless without the other.
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ํ•˜๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ์—†๋‹ค๋ฉด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๋„ ์—†๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:35
JH: Is there a relief
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์กด: ์ด ํž˜๋“ค์„ ์ด์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ์—
01:37
in playing with these forces?
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์•ˆ์ •์„ฑ์€ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
01:39
And I'm wondering how much of a sense of discovery there is
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ์ด ํž˜๋“ค์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ์—
01:42
in playing with these forces.
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์–ด๋Š ์ •๋„ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌ์„ฑ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์ง€ ๊ถ๊ธˆํ•˜๋„ค์š”.
01:45
TS: Well, like the magnetically levitated objects --
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ํƒ: ์ž์„ฑ์œผ๋กœ ๋–  ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฌผ์ฒด๋“ค์€
01:47
like that silver one there,
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์ €๊ธฐ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ์€์ƒ‰ ๋ฌผ๊ฑด์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ์š”.
01:49
that was the result
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์ €๊ฑด ์ž์„์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ 
01:51
of hundreds of experiments with magnets,
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ฌผ์ฒด๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๋‹ฅ์— ์ตœ์†Œํ•œ์œผ๋กœ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐ๋˜๋ฉด์„œ
01:53
trying to find a way to make something float
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๋œจ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฐพ์œผ๋ ค๋Š”
01:56
with the least possible connection to the ground.
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์ˆ˜๋ฐฑ๋ฒˆ์˜ ์‹คํ—˜์˜ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:59
So I got it down to just one tether
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ฆ๋ช…ํ•˜๋Š”
02:02
to be able to support that.
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ํ•œ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์— ์ด๋ฅด๋ €์ฃ .
02:04
JH: Now is this electromagnetic here, or are these static?
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์กด: ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๊ฑด ์ „์ž๊ธฐ์žฅ์„ ์ด์šฉํ•œ๊ฑด๊ฐ€์š”? ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ๊ณ ์ •๋˜์–ด ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฑด๊ฐ€์š”?
02:07
TS: Those are permanent magnets, yeah.
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ํƒ: ์ €๊ฑด ์˜๊ตฌ ์ž์„์ด์—์š”.
02:09
JH: Because if the power went out, there would just be a big noise.
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์กด: ์ „์ž์„์ด๋ผ๋ฉด ์ •์ „์ด ๋˜๋ฉด ์‹œ๋„๋Ÿฌ์šธํ…Œ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
02:12
TS: Yeah.
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ํƒ: ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ .
02:14
It's really unsatisfactory having plug-in art.
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ํ”Œ๋Ÿฌ๊ทธ๋ฅผ ๊ผฝ์•„์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ์˜ˆ์ˆ  ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์€ ์ •๋ง ๋ณ„๋กœ์—์š”.
02:17
JH: I agree.
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์กด: ๋งž์•„์š”.
02:20
TS: The magnetic works
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ํƒ: ์ž์„์˜ ์ผ์€
02:22
are a combination of gravity and magnetism,
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์ค‘๋ ฅ๊ณผ ์ž๋ ฅ์˜ ์กฐํ•ฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:25
so it's a kind of mixture of these ambient forces
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๋ชจ๋“ ๊ฒƒ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ์ฃผ๋Š” ์ด ์ฃผ๋ณ€ ํž˜๋“ค์„
02:28
that influence everything.
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์„ž์–ด ๋†“์€ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
02:30
The sun has a tremendous field
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ํƒœ์–‘์€ ํ–‰์„ฑ๋“ค์„ ๋„˜์–ด์„œ๋Š”
02:32
that extends way beyond the planets
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์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ์žฅ(ๅ ด)์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ 
02:34
and the Earth's magnetic field protects us from the sun.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ง€๊ตฌ์˜ ์ž๊ธฐ์žฅ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ํƒœ์–‘์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•ด์ค๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:37
So there's this huge
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์—„์ฒญ๋‚˜๊ฒŒ ํฌ๊ณ 
02:39
invisible shape structures
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๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ตฌ์กฐ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด
02:42
that magnetism takes in the universe.
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์ž๋ ฅ์ด ์šฐ์ฃผ ์ƒ์— ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑธ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:45
But with the pendulum,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ถ”๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋ฉด
02:48
it allows me to manifest
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์ด ๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ํž˜๋“ค์„
02:51
these invisible forces
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๋ณด์—ฌ๋“œ๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:53
that are holding the magnets up.
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์ด ์ž์„์„ ๋œจ๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ํž˜ ๋ง์ด์—์š”.
02:55
My sculptures
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์ €์˜ ์กฐ๊ฐ๋“ค์€
02:57
are normally very simplified.
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๋ณดํ†ต ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋‹จ์ˆœํ™”๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:00
I try to refine them down
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์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฑธ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•œ
03:02
to very simple forms.
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ํ˜•ํƒœ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋ ค๊ณ  ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:04
But the paintings become very complex,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์€ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋ณต์žกํ•ด์ง€์ฃ .
03:06
because I think the fields
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š”
03:08
that are supporting them,
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์ง€์ง€ํ•˜๋Š” ์žฅ(ๅ ด)๋“ค์ด
03:10
they're billowing, and they're interpenetrating,
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๋ถ€ํ’€์–ด์˜ค๋ฅด๊ณ , ์„œ๋กœ ๊ด€ํ†ตํ•˜๊ณ 
03:12
and they're interference patterns.
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๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:15
JH: And they're non-deterministic.
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์กด: ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ฒฐ์ •๋ก ์ ์ด์ง€ ์•Š์ฃ .
03:17
I mean, you don't know necessarily where you're headed when you begin,
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์ œ ๋ง์€, ํž˜์„ ๊ณ„์‚ฐํ•ด๋‚ธ๋‹ค ํ•ด๋„
03:20
even though the forces can be calculated.
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์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ์–ด๋””๋ฅผ ํ–ฅํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ์ž˜ ์•Œ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
03:23
So the evolution of this --
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ด๊ฒƒ์˜ ์ง„ํ™”๋Š”
03:25
I gather this isn't your first pendulum.
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์ด๊ฒŒ ์ฒซ๋ฒˆ์งธ ์ถ”๋Š” ์•„๋‹๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:27
TS: No. (JH: No.)
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ํƒ: ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”. (์กด: ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ .)
03:29
TS: The first one I did was in the late 70's,
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ํƒ: ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ฒ˜์Œ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์€ 70๋…„๋Œ€ ํ›„๋ฐ˜์ด์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:32
and I just had a simple cone
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๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•œ ์›๋ฟ”๋ชจ์–‘์—
03:34
with a spigot at the bottom of it.
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๋ฐ‘์— ๊ผญ์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋ถ™์–ด์žˆ์—ˆ์ฃ .
03:37
I threw it into an orbit,
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ๋กœ ์ž‘์—…์„ ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:39
and it only had one color,
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ํ•œ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ƒ‰๋งŒ ์“ธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ ์š”.
03:41
and when it got to the center, the paint kept running out,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋Œ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ์ค‘์•™์— ๋ฉˆ์ท„์„ ๋•Œ๋„ ํŽ˜์ธํŠธ๊ฐ€ ๊ณ„์† ํ˜๋Ÿฌ ๋‚˜์˜ค๋‹ˆ๊นŒ
03:44
so I had to run in there,
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์ง์ ‘ ๊ฑธ์–ด ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ€์„œ ๊ผญ์ง€๋ฅผ ์ž ๊ฐ€์•ผ ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
03:46
didn't have any control over the spigot remotely.
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์›๊ฒฉ์œผ๋กœ ๊ผญ์ง€๋ฅผ ์กฐ์ ˆํ•  ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์—†์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:49
So that told me right away: I need a remote control device.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์›๊ฒฉ ์กฐ์ • ์žฅ์น˜๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ์•Œ๊ฒŒ๋˜์—ˆ์ฃ .
03:52
But then I started dreaming of having six colors.
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ๋‹ค ์—ฌ์„ฏ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ƒ‰์„ ์“ฐ๋ฉด ์ข‹์„๊ฑฐ๋ผ๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐ๋„ ๋“ค์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:55
I sort of think about it as the DNA --
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์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฒŒ DNA์™€ ๋น„์Šทํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์š”
03:58
these colors, the red, blue, yellow,
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์ด ์ƒ‰์ƒ๋“ค์ด์š”, ๋นจ๊ฐ„์ƒ‰, ํŒŒ๋ž€์ƒ‰, ๋…ธ๋ž€์ƒ‰ ์›์ƒ‰๋“ค๊ณผ
04:00
the primary colors and white and black.
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ํฐ์ƒ‰, ๊ฒ€์ •์ƒ‰
04:03
And if you put them together in different combinations --
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ์ƒ‰์ƒ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐ๊ฐ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋น„์œจ๋กœ ์กฐํ•ฉํ•˜๋ฉด
04:05
just like printing in a sense,
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์žก์ง€๋ฅผ ์ฐ์–ด๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
04:07
like how a magazine color is printed --
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๊ฐ๊ฐ์„ ์ฐ์–ด๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
04:09
and put them under certain forces,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ์ƒ‰๋“ค์„
04:12
which is orbiting them
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๋ฐ€์–ด์„œ ๋Œ๋ฆฌ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
04:14
or passing them back and forth
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์•ž๋’ค๋กœ ํ”๋“ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
04:16
or drawing with them,
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์ง์ ‘ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๋ฉด
04:18
these amazing things started appearing.
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์ด ์‹ ๊ธฐํ•œ ์ผ๋“ค์ด ๋ณด์—ฌ์ง€๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
04:20
JH: It looks like we're loaded for bear here.
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์กด: ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ๋ญ”๊ฐ€ ์ค€๋น„๊ฐ€ ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ณด์ด๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
04:23
TS: Yeah, well let's put a couple of canvases.
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ํƒ: ๋„ค. ์ผ๋‹จ ์บ”๋ฒ„์Šค ๋‘ ์žฅ์„ ๊น”์•„๋ณด์ฃ .
04:25
I'll ask a couple of my sons
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์บ”๋ฒ„์Šค๋ฅผ ์„ค์น˜ํ•˜๋ ค๊ณ 
04:27
to set up the canvases here.
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๋ช‡ ๋ช…์—๊ฒŒ ๋ถ€ํƒ์„ ํ•ด๋†จ์–ด์š”.
04:31
I want to just say --
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์ด ์• ๋“ค ์ด๋ฆ„์€
04:33
so this is Jack, Nick and Louie.
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์žญ, ๋‹‰, ๋ฃจ์ด์—์š”.
04:35
JH: Thanks guys.
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์กด: ๊ณ ๋งˆ์›Œ์š”.
04:38
TS: So here are the --
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ํƒ: ์ด์ œ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—--
04:40
JH: All right, I'll get out of the way here.
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์กด: ์ž ๊น๋งŒ์š”, ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋น„์ผœ์•ผ๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”.
04:42
TS: I'm just going to throw this into an orbit
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ํƒ: ์ด์ œ ์ด ์ถ”๋ฅผ ๋ฐ€์–ด๋ณผ๊ฒŒ์š”.
04:45
and see if I can paint everybody's shoes in the front.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ๋‘˜๋Ÿฌ์•‰์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค ์‹ ๋ฐœ์— ํŽ˜์ธํŠธ๋ฅผ ๋ฌปํž ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ๋ณด์ฃ .
04:48
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
05:01
JH: Whoa. That is ...
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์กด: ์™€, ์ด๊ฑด..
05:06
ooh, nice.
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๋Œ€๋‹จํ•˜๊ตฐ์š”.
05:10
TS: So something like this.
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ํƒ: ์ด๋Ÿฐ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:12
I'm doing this as a demo,
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์‹œ์—ฐ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ฑฐ๋‹ˆ
05:14
and it's more playful,
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์ข€ ๋” ์žฌ๋ฏธ์žˆ๋„ค์š”.
05:17
but inevitably,
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ๋‹ฌ๋ฆฐ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„
05:19
all of this can be used.
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์‚ฌ์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
05:22
I can redeem this painting,
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๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๊ณ ์น  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
05:24
just continuing on,
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์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๊ณ„์†ํ•ด์„œ
05:26
doing layers upon layers.
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์ธต์ธต์ด ์Œ“์•„๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋ฉด ๋˜์ฃ .
05:28
And I keep it around for a couple of weeks,
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์ด๋Ÿฐ์‹์œผ๋กœ ๋ช‡ ์ฃผ๊ฐ„ ๊ณ„์† ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ฐ€
05:30
and I'm contemplating it,
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์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ํ•˜์ฃ .
05:32
and I'll do another session with it
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ ์„  ์ด๊ฑธ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ž‘์—…์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:35
and bring it up to another level,
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์ด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
05:38
where all of this
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์ด ๋ชจ๋“ ๊ฒŒ
05:40
becomes the background, the depth of it.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์˜ ๋ฐฐ๊ฒฝ์ด ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:43
JH: That's fantastic.
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์กด: ํ™˜์ƒ์ ์ด๋„ค์š”.
05:48
So the valves at the bottom of those tubes there
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์ € ํŠœ๋ธŒ๋“ค์— ๋‹ฌ๋ฆฐ ๋ฐธ๋ธŒ๋Š”
05:51
are like radio-controlled airplane valves.
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๋งˆ์น˜ ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ์˜ ๋ฌด์„ ์กฐ์ข… ๋ฐธ๋ธŒ๊ฐ™์€๊ฑฐ๊ตฐ์š”.
05:54
TS: Yes, they're servos with cams
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๋„ค. ์ €๊ฑด ์บ ์ด ๋‹ฌ๋ฆฐ ์ž๋™์ œ์–ด์žฅ์น˜์ธ๋ฐ *์บ : ๋ฐ”ํ€ด์˜ ํšŒ์ „ ์šด๋™์„ ์™•๋ณต ์šด๋™์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋Š” ์žฅ์น˜
05:57
that pinch these rubber tubes.
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๊ณ ๋ฌด ํŠœ๋ธŒ๋“ค์„ ์žก๊ณ ์žˆ์ฃ .
05:59
And they can pinch them very tight and stop it,
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์„ธ๊ฒŒ ์žก์•„์„œ ์•„์˜ˆ ๋‚˜์˜ค์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜,
06:01
or you can have them wide open.
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ํ™œ์ง ์—ด์–ด ์ œ๋‚„ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์ฃ .
06:03
And all of the colors
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ƒ‰๋“ค์ด
06:05
come out one central port
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๋ฐ‘์ชฝ์— ์žˆ๋Š”
06:07
at the bottom.
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์ค‘์•™ ์ถœ๊ตฌ๋กœ ๋‚˜์˜ค๊ฒŒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:09
You can always be changing colors, put aluminum paint,
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์ƒ‰์„ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์–ด์š”. ์•Œ๋ฃจ๋ฏธ๋Š„ ํŽ˜์ธํŠธ๋ฅผ ๋„ฃ๋Š”๋‹ค๋˜๊ฐ€
06:12
or I could put anything into this.
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ์•„๋ฌด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋„ฃ์„ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
06:14
It could be tomato sauce,
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๊ทธ ์•„๋ฌด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜๋Š” ํ† ๋งˆํ†  ์†Œ์Šค๊ฐ€ ๋  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
06:17
or anything could be dispensed --
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ํ˜๋ ค๋ณด๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๋ฉด ์•„๋ฌด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:20
sand, powders or anything like that.
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๋ชจ๋ž˜๋‚˜, ๊ฐ€๋ฃจ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค๋„์š”.
06:23
JH: So many forces there.
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์กด: ๊ด€๊ณ„๋œ ํž˜๋“ค์ด ์ฐธ ๋งŽ๋„ค์š”.
06:25
You've got gravity, you've got the centrifugal force,
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์ค‘๋ ฅ๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ , ์›์‹ฌ๋ ฅ๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
06:27
you've got the fluid dynamics.
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์œ ์ฒด์—ญํ•™๋„ ๊ด€๋ จ์ด ๋˜ ์žˆ๊ตฐ์š”.
06:33
Each of these beautiful paintings,
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์ด ์•„๋ฆ„๋‹ค์šด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ๋“ค์ด
06:36
are they images in and of themselves,
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์ด๋ฏธ์ง€ ์ž์ฒด์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
06:39
or are they records
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ์ถ”์™€ ์บ”๋ฒ„์Šค์˜ ๋งŒ๋‚จ์ด๋ผ๋Š”
06:41
of a physical event
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๋ฌผ๋ฆฌ์ ์ธ ํ˜„์ƒ์˜
06:43
called the pendulum approaching the canvas?
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๊ธฐ๋ก์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
06:46
TS: Well, this painting here,
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ํƒ: ๊ธ€์Ž„์š”, ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์ด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด
06:48
I wanted to do something very simple,
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์ €๋Š” ๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•œ ๊ฑธ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ  ์‹ถ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
06:50
a simple, iconic image
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๋‘ ํŒŒ๋™์ด ์„œ๋กœ ๊ฐ„์„ญํ•˜๋Š”
06:52
of two ripples interfering.
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๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•˜๊ณ  ์ƒ์ง•์ ์ธ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„์š”.
06:55
So the one on the right was done first,
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์˜ค๋ฅธ์ชฝ์˜ ํŒŒ๋™์ด ๋จผ์ € ๊ทธ๋ ค์กŒ๊ณ ์š”,
06:57
and then the one on the left
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ์œ„์—
06:59
was done over it.
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์™ผ์ชฝ์˜ ํŒŒ๋™์„ ๊ทธ๋ ธ์ฃ .
07:01
And then I left gaps
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‚˜์„  ์—ฌ๋ฐฑ์„ ์ข€ ๋’€์ฃ .
07:03
so you could see the one that was done before.
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์ด์ „์— ์ž‘ํ’ˆ๋“ค์—์„œ ์—ฌ๋ฐฑ์„ ํ™•์ธํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊ฑฐ์—์š”.
07:05
And then when I did the second one,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ ๋‚˜์„œ ๋‘๋ฒˆ์งธ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์„ ํ•  ๋•Œ์—,
07:07
it really disturbed the piece --
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๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๋ถˆ์•ˆํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ์š”์†Œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
07:09
these big blue lines
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ํŒŒ๋ž€ ์„ ๋“ค์ด
07:11
crashing through the center of it --
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์›์˜ ์ค‘์•™์„ ๋šซ๊ณ  ์ง€๋‚˜๊ฐ€์ฃ .
07:13
and so it created a kind of tension and an overlap.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ์ผ์ข…์˜ ๊ธด์žฅ๊ฐ๊ณผ ๊ฒน์นจ์ด ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:16
There are lines in front of the one on the right,
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ํŒŒ๋ž€ ์„ ๋“ค์ด ์˜ค๋ฅธ์ชฝ์—์„œ๋Š” ํŒŒ๋™ ์œ„์— ์น ํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ 
07:20
and there are lines behind the one on the left,
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์™ผ์ชฝ์—์„œ๋Š” ํŒŒ๋™ ๋ฐ‘์— ์น ํ•ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:23
and so it takes it into different planes.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์–‘์ชฝ์˜ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋“ค์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅด๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
07:27
What it's also about,
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋˜ํ•œ
07:29
just the little events,
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์ž‘์€ ํ˜„์ƒ๋“ค์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ,
07:32
the events of the interpenetration of --
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์„œ๋กœ ๊ด€ํ†ตํ•˜๋Š” ํ˜„์ƒ๋“ค์„ ์–˜๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ€๋ น-
07:35
JH: Two stars, or --
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์กด: ๋‘๊ฐœ์˜ ๋ณ„๋“ค ์ด๋ผ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜-
07:37
TS: Two things that happened --
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ํƒ: ๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€ ํ˜„์ƒ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜๋ฉด
07:39
there's an interference pattern, and then a third thing happens.
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์—” ์ƒํ˜ธ ๊ฐ„์„ญ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊น๋‹ˆ๋‹ค, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹ค์Œ ํ˜„์ƒ์ด ๋ฐœ์ƒํ•˜์ฃ .
07:42
There are shapes that come about
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์ €๊ธฐ ์ƒ๊ฒจ๋‚˜๋Š” ํ˜•ํƒœ๋Š”
07:44
just by the marriage
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๋ฐœ์ƒํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๋‘ ํ˜„์ƒ๋“ค์˜
07:46
of two events that are happening,
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์ƒํ˜ธ์ž‘์šฉ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์ƒ๊ฒจ๋‚œ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:48
and I'm very interested in that.
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ํฅ๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ธฐ๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
07:51
Like the occurrence of moire patterns.
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๋ฌด์•„๋ ˆ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ์˜ ๋ฐœ์ƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ, *๋ฌด์•„๋ ˆ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ: ์ฃผ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ฒน์ณ์„œ ์›๋ž˜์˜ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋ณด๋‹ค ํฌ๊ฒŒ ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๋Š” ๋ฌด๋Šฌ
07:54
Like this green one,
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์ด์ชฝ์— ์ดˆ๋ก์ƒ‰ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ์š”,
07:56
this is a painting I did about 10 years ago,
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์ด๊ฑด ํ•œ 10๋…„์ „ ์ฏค์— ์ž‘์—…ํ•œ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์ธ๋ฐ,
07:59
but it has some --
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์ด์ชฝ์„ ๋ณด์‹œ๋ฉด-
08:01
see, in the upper third --
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์œ„์ชฝ์—์„œ 1/3 ์ง€์ ์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด
08:03
there are these moires and interference patterns
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๋ฌด์•„๋ ˆ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ์™€ ์ƒํ˜ธ๊ฐ„์„ญ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
08:06
that are radio kind of imagery.
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๋งˆ์น˜ ๋ฌด์„  ์ „ํŒŒ๊ฐ™์€ ์ด๋ฏธ์ง€๋ฅผ ํ•˜๊ณ ์žˆ์ฃ .
08:08
And that's something that in painting
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์ด๊ฑด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์—์„œ๋Š”
08:10
I've never seen done.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ๋„ ๋ณด์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
08:12
I've never seen a representation
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์ €๋Š” ์—ฌ์ง€๊ป ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฌด์„  ์ „ํŒŒ ๊ฐ„์„ญ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋ฅผ
08:14
of a kind of radio interference patterns,
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๋ฌ˜์‚ฌํ•œ ์ ์„ ๋ณธ ์ ์ด ์—†๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
08:17
which are so ubiquitous
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ์ด ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋“ค์€ ์–ด๋””์—์„œ๋‚˜ ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
08:20
and such an important part of our lives.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ƒํ™œ์—์„œ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
08:23
JH: Is that a literal part of the image,
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ํƒ: ์ €๊ฒŒ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ €๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ธด ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
08:25
or is my eye making that interference pattern --
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ์ œ ๋ˆˆ์ด ์ €๋Ÿฐ ๊ฐ„์„ญ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด ๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฑด๊ฐ€์š”?
08:28
is my eye completing that interference pattern?
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ด„์œผ๋กœ์จ ์ € ๊ฐ„์„ญ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋“ค์ด ์™„์„ฑ ๋˜๋Š”๊ฑด๊ฐ€์š”?
08:30
TS: It is the paint actually,
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ํƒ: ์‚ฌ์‹ค์€ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€
08:32
makes it real.
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์ €๊ฒŒ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด์ด๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:34
It's really manifested there.
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์ €๊ธฐ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์—์š”.
08:36
If I throw a very concentric circle,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์ถ”๋ฅผ ๋ฐ€์–ด์„œ
08:39
or concentric ellipse,
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์ค‘์‹ฌ์ด ๊ฐ™์€ ์›์ด๋‚˜ ํƒ€์›์„ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๋ฉด,
08:41
it just dutifully makes
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์ด ์ถ”๋Š” ๋ถ„๋ช…
08:43
these evenly spaced lines,
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์ ์  ์„œ๋กœ ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์›Œ ์ง€๋Š”
08:45
which get closer and closer together,
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๊ท ์ผํ•œ ๊ฐ„๊ฒฉ์˜ ์„ ์„ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๋Š”๋ฐ,
08:48
which describes how gravity works.
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์ด ์„ ๋“ค์ด ์ค‘๋ ฅ์ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ž‘์šฉํ•˜๋Š”์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ์ฃ .
08:50
There's something very appealing
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
08:52
about the exactitude of science
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๊ณผํ•™์˜ ์ •๋ฐ€์„ฑ์€ ์ •๋ง ๋งค๋ ฅ์ ์ด๊ณ ,
08:54
that I really enjoy.
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์ €๋„ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์ฆ๊ฑฐ์› ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:56
And I love the shapes that I see
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์ €๋Š” ๊ณผํ•™์ ์ธ ๊ด€์ฐฐ์ด๋‚˜
08:59
in scientific observations
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๊ธฐ๊ด€๋“ค, ํŠนํžˆ ์ฒœ๋ฌธํ•™์ ์ธ ํ˜•ํƒœ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ–์ถ˜ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์—์„œ
09:02
and apparatus,
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๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
09:04
especially astronomical forms
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ํ˜•์ƒ๋“ค์„ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:07
and the idea of the vastness of it,
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๊ทธ ์•„์ด๋””์–ด๋“ค์˜ ์–ด๋งˆ์–ด๋งˆํ•œ
09:09
the scale,
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๊ทธ ํฌ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€
09:11
is very interesting to me.
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์ €์—๊ฒŒ๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์› ์–ด์š”.
09:13
My focus in recent years
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์ตœ๊ทผ ๋ช‡๋…„ ์‚ฌ์ด์—๋Š”
09:16
has kind of shifted more toward biology.
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์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™ ์ชฝ์œผ๋กœ ์ข€๋” ์ดˆ์ ์„ ๋‘๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
09:19
Some of these paintings, when you look at them very close,
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์ด์ชฝ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๋ด์š”. ์ด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์ด์„œ ๋ณด๋ฉด
09:22
odd things appear
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์ด์ƒํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚  ๊ฑฐ์—์š” ๊ฐ€๋ น
09:24
that really look like horses or birds
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๋ง์ด๋ผ๋˜์ง€, ์ƒˆ๋ผ๋˜์ง€,
09:27
or crocodiles, elephants.
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์•…์–ด๋‚˜ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์š”.
09:30
There are lots of things that appear.
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๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:32
When you look into it, it's sort of like looking at cloud patterns,
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๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ์ž์„ธํžˆ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด๋ฉด, ์ด๊ฑฐ๋Š” ๋งˆ์น˜ ๊ตฌ๋ฆ„ ๋ฌด๋Šฌ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋น„์Šทํ•œ๋ฐ,
09:35
but sometimes they're very modeled and highly rendered.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ๊ฐ€๋”๋ณด๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์ •๊ตํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ‘œํ˜„๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
09:38
And then there are all these forms
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์–ด๋Š ๋•Œ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š”
09:40
that we don't know what they are,
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ํ˜•์ƒ๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
09:42
but they're equally well-resolved
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ ํ˜•์ƒ๋“ค๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ
09:44
and complex.
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๋ณต์žกํ•œ ํ˜•ํƒœ๋ฅผ ์ œ๋Œ€๋กœ ๊ฐ–์ถ”๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:46
So I think, conceivably, those could be predictive.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ณด๊ธฐ์—” ์ €๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์˜ˆ์ธก๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
09:49
Because since it has the ability
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€
09:51
to make forms
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ต์ˆ™ํ•œ
09:53
that look like forms that we're familiar with
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๋ชจ์–‘์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„
09:55
in biology,
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๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์„ ๋ฟ๋”๋Ÿฌ,
09:57
it's also making other forms that we're not familiar with.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ต์ˆ™ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ๋ชจ์–‘์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ๋„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
10:00
And maybe it's the kind of forms
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์•„๋งˆ ์ด ํ˜•์ƒ๋“ค์€
10:02
we'll discover underneath the surface of Mars,
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ํ™”์„ฑ ํ‘œ๋ฉด ๋ฐ‘์— ์žˆ์„ ํ˜ธ์ˆ˜์—์„œ
10:04
where there are probably lakes
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๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•œ ๋ฌผ๊ณ ๊ธฐ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
10:06
with fish swimming under the surface.
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์ƒ๊ฒผ์„์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:08
JH: Oh, let's hope so. Oh, my God, let's.
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JH: ์ œ๋ฐœ ๊ทธ๋žฌ์œผ๋ฉด ์ข‹๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”, ์ œ๋ฐœ
10:10
Oh, please, yes. Oh, I'm so there.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์š”. ๋ง‰ ์ƒ์ƒ๋˜๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋„ค์š”.
10:13
You know, it seems
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์•Œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ
10:16
at this stage in your life,
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์ง€๊ธˆ ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์‚ถ์—์„œ
10:18
you also very personally
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๊ฐœ์ธ์ ์œผ๋กœ๋„
10:20
are in this state of confrontation
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ๋ถˆํ˜‘ํ™”์Œ๊ณผ์˜
10:23
with a sort of dissonant --
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๋Œ€์น˜์ƒํ™ฉ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ณด์ด๋Š”๋ฐ-
10:26
I suppose it's an electromagnetic force
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—”, ์ „์ž๊ธฐ๋ ฅ์ด
10:28
that somehow governs your Parkinson's
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์™œ์ธ์ง€ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ ํŒŒํ‚จ์Šจ ๋ณ‘์„ ํ†ต์ œํ•˜๊ณ ,
10:30
and this creative force
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์ฐฝ์˜๋ ฅ,
10:32
that is both the artist
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์ด ๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€ ํž˜์ด
10:35
who is in the here and now
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ์ด ์˜ˆ์ˆ ๊ฐ€๋ถ„๊ณผ,
10:37
and this sort of arc of your whole life.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ๋“ค์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”.
10:39
Is that relevant to your work?
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ๋‹น์‹  ์ž‘์—…๊ณผ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ด€๋ จ์ด ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
10:42
TS: As it turns out,
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ํƒ: ์ด ์žฅ์น˜๋Š” ์ €์—๊ฒŒ
10:44
this device kind of comes in handy,
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๋งค์šฐ ํŽธ๋ฆฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด์ด์ฃ .
10:46
because I don't have to have
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์™œ๋ƒ๋ฉด ์ด๊ฑธ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ๋Š” ๋ฐ๋Š”
10:48
the fine motor skills to do,
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ํŠน๋ณ„ํ•œ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋„ ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ณ ,
10:50
that I can operate slides,
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์Šฌ์ฉ ๋ฐ€์–ด์ฃผ๊ธฐ๋งŒ ํ•  ์ค„ ์•Œ๋ฉด ๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
10:52
which is more of a mental process.
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์ด๊ฑด ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๋ณด๋‹ค๋Š” ์ •์‹ ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋” ์—ฐ๊ด€์ด ์žˆ์ฃ .
10:54
I'm looking at it and making decisions:
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์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฑธ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ์ €๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฐ์ •์„ ๋‚ด๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:57
It needs more red, it needs more blue,
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๋นจ๊ฐ•์ด ๋” ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ตฌ๋‚˜, ํŒŒ๋ž‘์ด ๋” ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ตฌ๋‚˜
10:59
it needs a different shape.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ˜•ํƒœ๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ตฌ๋‚˜ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์š”.
11:01
And so I make these creative decisions
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ ์„  ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ฐฝ์˜์ ์ธ ๊ฒฐ์ •๋“ค์„ ๋‚ด๋ฆฐ ๋‹ค์Œ์—
11:04
and can execute them
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์‹คํ–‰์— ์˜ฎ๊ธฐ๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ
11:07
in a much, much simpler way.
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์›๋ž˜๋Œ€๋กœ๋ณด๋‹ค ํ›จ์”ฌ ์‰ฌ์šด ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
11:09
I mean, I've got the symptoms.
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๋ง์ธ์ฆ‰, ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ฆ์ƒ์ด ์žˆ์ž–์•„์š”,
11:12
I guess Parkinson's kind of creeps up over the years,
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์•„๋งˆ๋„ ํŒŒํ‚จ์Šจ ๋ณ‘์€ ์ˆ˜ ๋…„๊ฐ„ ์„œ์„œํžˆ ์•…ํ™”๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
11:15
but at a certain point you start seeing the symptoms.
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์–ด๋Š ์ •๋„๊ฐ€ ๋˜๋ฉด ์ฆ์ƒ์ด ๋ณด์ด๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:18
In my case,
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์ € ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์—๋Š”,
11:20
my left hand has a significant tremor
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์ œ ์™ผ์†์— ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•œ ๋–จ๋ฆผ ์ฆ์„ธ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:23
and my left leg also.
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์™ผ์ชฝ ๋‹ค๋ฆฌ์—๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ์š”.
11:26
I'm left-handed, and so I draw.
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์ €๋Š” ์™ผ์†์žก์ด์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๊ทธ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:29
All my creations
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์ œ ์ฐฝ์ž‘๋ฌผ๋“ค์€
11:31
really start on small drawings,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์ž‘์€ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ๋“ค๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
11:34
which I have thousands of,
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์‹œ์ž‘๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
11:36
and it's my way of just thinking.
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์ด๊ฑด ์ œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ธ๋ฐ, ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ด์š”.
11:38
I draw with a simple pencil,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์—ฐํ•„๋กœ ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
11:41
and at first, the Parkinson's
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์ฒ˜์Œ์—๋Š”, ํŒŒํ‚จ์Šจ ๋ณ‘์ด
11:43
was really upsetting,
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์ •๋ง ์งœ์ฆ์ด ๋‚˜๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
11:45
because I couldn't get the pencil to stand still.
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์—ฐํ•„์„ ๊ฐ€๋งŒํžˆ ์žก๋Š” ์ผ์กฐ์ฐจ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์œผ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
11:49
JH: So you're not a gatekeeper for these forces.
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์กด: ๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ด ํž˜๋“ค์˜ ์ˆ˜ํ˜ธ์ž๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๊ตฐ์š”.
11:52
You don't think of yourself as the master of these forces.
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด ํž˜๋“ค์˜ ์ฃผ์ธ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๊ณ  ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
11:55
You think of yourself as the servant.
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์ฃผ์ธ๋ณด๋‹ค๋Š” ์ข…์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ ์š”.
11:58
TS: Nature is -- well, it's a godsend.
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ํƒ: ์ž์—ฐ์ด๋ž€ ๊ฒƒ์€, ์ž์—ฐ์€ ์‹ ์˜ ์„ ๋ฌผ์ด์ฃ .
12:01
It just has so much in it.
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๊ทธ ์•ˆ์—๋Š” ์ •๋ง ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ๋‹ด๊ฒจ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:04
And I think nature
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์— ์ž์—ฐ์€
12:06
wants to express itself
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์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋ฅผ ํ‘œํ˜„ํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:08
in the sense that we are nature,
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๋ง ๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ž์—ฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:10
humans are of the universe.
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์šฐ์ฃผ์— ์†ํ•œ ์ธ๊ฐ„์ด์ฃ .
12:13
The universe is in our mind,
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์šฐ์ฃผ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋งˆ์Œ ์†์— ์žˆ๊ณ ,
12:15
and our minds are in the universe.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋งˆ์Œ ๋˜ํ•œ ์šฐ์ฃผ ์•ˆ์— ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
12:17
And we are expressions
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š”
12:19
of the universe, basically.
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์šฐ์ฃผ์˜ ํ‘œํ˜„๋ฌผ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
12:21
As humans,
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๊ทผ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ, ์ธ๊ฐ„์€ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ
12:23
ultimately being part of the universe,
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์šฐ์ฃผ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:26
we're kind of the spokespeople
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด ์šฐ์ฃผ์— ์†ํ•œ
12:28
or the observer part
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์ด ์ง€์—ญ์—์„œ,
12:30
of the constituency
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๋Œ€๋ณ€์ธ์ด๋‚˜
12:33
of the universe.
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๊ด€์ฐฐ์ž์˜ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
12:35
And to interface with it,
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๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด,
12:37
with a device that lets these forces
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์žฅ์น˜๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ ์–ด๋””์—๋‚˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
12:40
that are everywhere
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์ด ํž˜๋“ค์ด
12:42
act and show what they can do,
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์–ด๋–ค ํ–‰๋™์„ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ค๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:44
giving them pigment and paint just like an artist,
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์˜ˆ์ˆ ๊ฐ€์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ํŽ˜์ธํŠธ์™€ ๋ฌผ๊ฐ์„ ๋“ค๋ ค์ฃผ์–ด์„œ์š”.
12:47
it's a good ally.
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ํž˜๋“ค์€ ์ข‹์€ ๋™๋งน๊ตฐ์ด์—์š”.
12:50
It's a terrific studio assistant.
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๊ต‰์žฅํ•œ ์ŠคํŠœ๋””์˜ค ๋ณด์กฐ๊ฐ€ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:52
JH: Well, I love the idea
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์กด: ๊ธ€์Ž„์š”, ์ €๋Š” ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
12:54
that somewhere within this idea
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์ „ํ†ต์ ์ธ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๋“ค์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
12:56
of fine motion and control
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ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•œ ์›€์ง์ž„๊ณผ ์กฐ์ž‘์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋‚ด๋Š”
12:59
with the traditional skills
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์ด ๋ฐœ์ƒ ์ค‘ ์–ด๋”˜๊ฐ€์—์„œ
13:01
that you have with your hand,
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ์ž์—ฐ์ ์ธ ํž˜๋“ค์ด
13:03
some sort of more elemental force gets revealed,
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๋” ๋งŽ์ด ๋“œ๋Ÿฌ๋‚œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:05
and that's the beauty here.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ๋‹ด๊ฒจ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฏธํ•™์ด์ฃ .
13:07
Tom, thank you so much. It's been really, really great.
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ํƒ, ์ •๋ง ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜ค๋Š˜ ์•„์ฃผ ์ข‹์•˜์–ด์š”.
13:10
TS: Thank you, John.
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ํƒ: ๊ณ ๋งˆ์›Œ์š” ์กด.
13:12
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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