Jonathan Trent: Energy from floating algae pods

205,009 views ・ 2012-09-28

TED


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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Anny Chung 審譯者: Gina Wang
00:15
Some years ago, I set out to try to understand
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幾年前,我決心研究
00:18
if there was a possibility to develop biofuels
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是否有辦法生產生物燃料
00:21
on a scale that would actually compete with fossil fuels
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使之量大到可與化石燃料抗衡
00:25
but not compete with agriculture for water,
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卻不會與食用農業
競爭水、肥料、或是土地
00:29
fertilizer or land.
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00:31
So here's what I came up with.
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以下是我想出來的方案
00:33
Imagine that we build an enclosure where we put it
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想像一個建造在水底下的空間
00:35
just underwater, and we fill it with wastewater
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我們把它裝滿處理過的廢水
00:37
and some form of microalgae that produces oil,
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並加入會製造油料的微藻
00:40
and we make it out of some kind of flexible material
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然後這個空間的材料 將會是有彈性的
00:42
that moves with waves underwater,
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讓它能夠隨波移動
00:44
and the system that we're going to build, of course,
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當然,我們建造的這個系統
00:46
will use solar energy to grow the algae,
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將利用太陽能使藻類生長
00:49
and they use CO2, which is good,
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它們會消耗二氧化碳,這是件好事
00:51
and they produce oxygen as they grow.
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然後在生長的過程中製造氧氣
00:53
The algae that grow are in a container that
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微藻生長的空間能夠將多餘的熱能
00:57
distributes the heat to the surrounding water,
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分散傳導至四周圍的水中
01:00
and you can harvest them and make biofuels
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你可以收成它們來提煉生物燃料
01:02
and cosmetics and fertilizer and animal feed,
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還有化妝品、肥料及飼料的原料
01:05
and of course you'd have to make a large area of this,
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當然,你得讓它附蓋很大的面積
01:07
so you'd have to worry about other stakeholders
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所以你得當心其他利益相關者
01:10
like fishermen and ships and such things, but hey,
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像是漁民和船等等,但這都是小事
01:14
we're talking about biofuels,
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因為重要的是生物燃料
01:16
and we know the importance of potentially getting
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而大家都知道生產替代能源 是多麼地重要
01:19
an alternative liquid fuel.
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01:21
Why are we talking about microalgae?
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為什麼我們要用微藻類?
01:24
Here you see a graph showing you the different types
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這個圖表顯示著
01:27
of crops that are being considered for making biofuels,
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目前考慮用來生產 生物燃料的不同農作物
01:31
so you can see some things like soybean,
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你可以看到像是黃豆
01:34
which makes 50 gallons per acre per year,
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每英畝一年可生產五十加侖
01:36
or sunflower or canola or jatropha or palm, and that
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或是向日葵、油菜籽 痲瘋樹和油棕
01:41
tall graph there shows what microalgae can contribute.
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然後那個很高的圖代表微藻的產量
01:46
That is to say, microalgae contributes between 2,000
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微藻每英畝可在一年內生產兩千
01:48
and 5,000 gallons per acre per year,
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至五千加侖的油
01:51
compared to the 50 gallons per acre per year from soy.
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和黃豆的五十加侖產量相比差異很大
01:54
So what are microalgae? Microalgae are micro --
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微藻是什麼? 微藻是微生物
01:58
that is, they're extremely small, as you can see here
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也就是說,他們很微小
你可以看到這些單細胞生物
02:00
a picture of those single-celled organisms
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02:03
compared to a human hair.
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和頭髮大小相比的照片
02:05
Those small organisms have been around
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這些微生物已經存在幾百萬年了
02:08
for millions of years and there's thousands
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而且世界各地有上千種 不同種類的微藻
02:10
of different species of microalgae in the world,
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02:13
some of which are the fastest-growing plants on the planet,
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其中有些是世界上生長最快的植物
02:16
and produce, as I just showed you, lots and lots of oil.
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而且如我剛剛所說的 可以生產很多很多油
02:19
Now, why do we want to do this offshore?
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那為什麼我們選擇在沿岸做這個計劃?
02:22
Well, the reason we're doing this offshore is because
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選擇在都市沿岸的原因在於
02:25
if you look at our coastal cities, there isn't a choice,
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如果你觀察沿海都市 會發現其實別無選擇
02:29
because we're going to use waste water, as I suggested,
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這是因為如我剛剛提到 我們將利用廢水
02:32
and if you look at where most of the waste water
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如果你看看我們的廢水處理廠的位置
02:34
treatment plants are, they're embedded in the cities.
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它們都在城市附近
02:38
This is the city of San Francisco, which has 900 miles
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這是舊金山
它地底已埋了總長 約九百英里的廢水管
02:41
of sewer pipes under the city already,
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02:44
and it releases its waste water offshore.
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並將這些廢水排放到海裡
02:48
So different cities around the world treat their waste water
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世界各地的都市 處理廢水的方式各有不同
02:52
differently. Some cities process it.
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有些都市會加以處理
02:54
Some cities just release the water.
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有些都市會直接排放
02:56
But in all cases, the water that's released is
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但是無論如何,排出的廢水
02:59
perfectly adequate for growing microalgae.
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對於提供微藻生長是完全沒問題的
那我們想想這個系統會長什麼樣子
03:02
So let's envision what the system might look like.
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03:03
We call it OMEGA, which is an acronym for
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我們叫它OMEGA
03:05
Offshore Membrane Enclosures for Growing Algae.
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它是「沿岸微藻生長包膜」的縮寫
03:10
At NASA, you have to have good acronyms.
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在NASA,有好的縮寫是很重要的
03:12
So how does it work? I sort of showed you how it works already.
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它將如何運作? 我剛剛已經敘述了大概
03:15
We put waste water and some source of CO2
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我們輸入廢水和某二氧化碳源
03:19
into our floating structure,
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進入這些漂浮的結構中
03:22
and the waste water provides nutrients for the algae to grow,
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然後廢水提供微藻生長所需的養分
03:26
and they sequester CO2 that would otherwise go off
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而微藻消耗並固著二氧化碳
03:28
into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas.
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減少溫室氣體
03:31
They of course use solar energy to grow,
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它們當然是利用太陽能生長
03:33
and the wave energy on the surface provides energy
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然後海浪會提供動能混合藻類
03:36
for mixing the algae, and the temperature
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而溫度將會由周圍的水溫所控制
03:38
is controlled by the surrounding water temperature.
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03:41
The algae that grow produce oxygen, as I've mentioned,
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就如我所提的,藻類將生產氧氣
03:44
and they also produce biofuels and fertilizer and food and
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它們也會生產生物燃料和肥料、食物
03:47
other bi-algal products of interest.
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以及其他藻類生物副產品
03:51
And the system is contained. What do I mean by that?
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而且這整個系統是自我封閉的 這是什麼意思?
03:54
It's modular. Let's say something happens that's
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它是模組化的 假設其中一個單元
03:56
totally unexpected to one of the modules.
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出乎意料外的停擺
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It leaks. It's struck by lightning.
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它漏水了,或被閃電擊中
04:01
The waste water that leaks out is water that already now
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流出來的廢水是原本 就會被排放到海域的
04:03
goes into that coastal environment, and
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而那些藻類是會自然分解的
04:06
the algae that leak out are biodegradable,
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04:08
and because they're living in waste water,
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正因它們原本存於廢水中
04:09
they're fresh water algae, which means they can't
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它們是淡水藻,這意味著
04:12
live in salt water, so they die.
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它們無法於鹹水中生存,所以會死去
04:14
The plastic we'll build it out of is some kind of
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我們將使用的塑膠材料
04:16
well-known plastic that we have good experience with, and
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是一種廣泛使用的材料,效果良好
04:19
we'll rebuild our modules to be able to reuse them again.
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而且我們將設計這些模組 使之能重複使用
04:24
So we may be able to go beyond that when thinking about
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所以我們有可能超越現況思考
來考慮這個系統的用途,我的意思是
04:27
this system that I'm showing you, and that is to say
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04:30
we need to think in terms of the water, the fresh water,
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我們需要考慮淡水的問題
04:32
which is also going to be an issue in the future,
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淡水在未來將會是個急迫的課題
04:35
and we're working on methods now
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所以我們現在正研究開發
04:37
for recovering the waste water.
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重複利用廢水的方法
04:39
The other thing to consider is the structure itself.
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另外需要考慮的一點是架構本身
04:42
It provides a surface for things in the ocean,
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它將在海洋中為生物提供表面積
04:45
and this surface, which is covered by seaweeds
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這些表面會被海藻
04:48
and other organisms in the ocean,
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還有海洋中的其他生物佔滿
04:51
will become enhanced marine habitat
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它將提升海洋的棲地生態
04:55
so it increases biodiversity.
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並增加生物多樣性
04:56
And finally, because it's an offshore structure,
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最後,因為它是在海岸邊的架構
04:58
we can think in terms of how it might contribute
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我們可以想像它如何能夠增進
05:01
to an aquaculture activity offshore.
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海岸的水產養殖活動
05:05
So you're probably thinking, "Gee, this sounds
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所以你大概在想 "天啊,這聽起來真是個好主意"
05:07
like a good idea. What can we do to try to see if it's real?"
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"我們如何試試看它能否成真?"
05:11
Well, I set up laboratories in Santa Cruz
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我已在聖塔克魯茲設立實驗室
05:15
at the California Fish and Game facility,
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在加州漁獵部的場地
05:18
and that facility allowed us to have big seawater tanks
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那裡有設施提供我們 設立大型的海水箱
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to test some of these ideas.
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來測試這些想法
05:23
We also set up experiments in San Francisco
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我們同時於舊金山設立實驗
05:26
at one of the three waste water treatment plants,
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在那三個廢水處理廠其中之一
05:28
again a facility to test ideas.
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一樣來試驗我們的提案
05:31
And finally, we wanted to see where we could look at
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最後,我們想看看要在哪裡
05:34
what the impact of this structure would be
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能夠測試這個架構對海洋環境的影響
05:37
in the marine environment, and we set up a field site
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所以我們設立了一個野地實驗
05:41
at a place called Moss Landing Marine Lab
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在一個叫 Moss Landing 海洋實驗室的地方
05:43
in Monterey Bay, where we worked in a harbor
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位於蒙特利灣,我們在海港內實驗
05:45
to see what impact this would have on marine organisms.
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看看這對海洋生物的影響會是什麼
05:50
The laboratory that we set up in Santa Cruz was our skunkworks.
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在聖塔克魯茲的實驗室 是我們的開發中心
05:53
It was a place where we were growing algae
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我們在那裡培養藻類
05:56
and welding plastic and building tools
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融合塑膠、建造工具
05:59
and making a lot of mistakes,
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和出了很多差錯
06:00
or, as Edison said, we were
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或是如愛迪生所說的
06:02
finding the 10,000 ways that the system wouldn't work.
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我們正發現這系統 無法運作的一萬個原因
06:06
Now, we grew algae in waste water, and we built tools
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所以我們在廢水中養微藻 並設計工具
06:10
that allowed us to get into the lives of algae
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讓我們能夠融入藻類生活
06:13
so that we could monitor the way they grow,
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密切監測它們成長的方式
06:15
what makes them happy, how do we make sure that
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看如何讓它們開心生活
06:18
we're going to have a culture that will survive and thrive.
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以確保我們培養的藻類能夠生存茁壯
06:22
So the most important feature that we needed to develop were these
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而我們最迫切需要設計的東西
06:25
so-called photobioreactors, or PBRs.
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是這些生物光合反應器 我們簡稱PBR (photobioreactor)
06:28
These were the structures that would be floating at the
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這些就是將會漂浮於海面的結構
06:29
surface made out of some inexpensive plastic material
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用某種便宜的塑膠材料製作
06:32
that'll allow the algae to grow, and we had built lots and lots
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使微藻能在其中成長
而我們也做了許多不同的設計 大多都是失敗的作品
06:35
of designs, most of which were horrible failures,
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06:38
and when we finally got to a design that worked,
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當我們找到一個成功的設計
06:40
at about 30 gallons, we scaled it up
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在約三十加侖的大小
06:43
to 450 gallons in San Francisco.
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我們在舊金山把它放大到450加侖測驗
06:46
So let me show you how the system works.
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讓我告訴你這系統如何運作
06:49
We basically take waste water with algae of our choice in it,
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基本上,我們採用的廢水裡 內含經過挑選的藻類
06:52
and we circulate it through this floating structure,
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並將之循環通過這個漂浮的結構
06:55
this tubular, flexible plastic structure,
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這個管狀、有彈性的塑膠結構
06:58
and it circulates through this thing,
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然後它將在這裡面循環
06:59
and there's sunlight of course, it's at the surface,
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當然,太陽光會照在表面
07:02
and the algae grow on the nutrients.
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然後藻類吸取養份成長
07:04
But this is a bit like putting your head in a plastic bag.
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但這有點像把你的頭塞到塑膠袋裡
07:07
The algae are not going to suffocate because of CO2,
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雖然藻類並不會像我們一樣 因二氧化碳而窒息
07:10
as we would.
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07:11
They suffocate because they produce oxygen, and they
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但它們會因製造的氧氣而窒息
07:14
don't really suffocate, but the oxygen that they produce
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它不是真的會窒息 但是它們產生的氧氣是個問題
07:16
is problematic, and they use up all the CO2.
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因為它們會把二氧化碳用完
07:19
So the next thing we had to figure out was how we could
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所以我們的下一步便是想辦法移除氧氣
07:21
remove the oxygen, which we did by building this column
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我們加了這個柱狀體
07:24
which circulated some of the water,
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用來循環部分的水
07:26
and put back CO2, which we did by bubbling the system
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並重新加入二氧化碳,我們再循環水之前
07:29
before we recirculated the water.
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灌注氣泡在裡頭,解決問題
07:32
And what you see here is the prototype,
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你再這裡看見的是設計原型
07:33
which was the first attempt at building this type of column.
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是我們第一次試著建造這個柱狀物
07:37
The larger column that we then installed in San Francisco
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我們將大型的柱狀結構安裝於舊金山
07:40
in the installed system.
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在我們安裝的系統裡
07:41
So the column actually had another very nice feature,
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這個柱狀的構造還有一個優點
07:45
and that is the algae settle in the column,
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就是藻類會沉澱到柱子底部
07:48
and this allowed us to accumulate the algal biomass
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這使我們能夠累積微藻體積
07:51
in a context where we could easily harvest it.
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並方便收成
07:54
So we would remove the algaes that concentrated
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我們可以將累積於柱子底部的微藻移除
07:57
in the bottom of this column, and then we could
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然後讓它漂浮在水中 再用網子從表面撈取
08:00
harvest that by a procedure where you float the algae
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08:04
to the surface and can skim it off with a net.
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以大量收成
08:07
So we wanted to also investigate what would be the impact
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我們也想要了解這個結構
08:11
of this system in the marine environment,
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對於海洋環境的影響
08:14
and I mentioned we set up this experiment at a field site
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而我之前提到我們有實際於野外實驗
08:17
in Moss Landing Marine Lab.
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就在 Moss Landing 海洋實驗室裡
08:20
Well, we found of course that this material became
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我們理所當然地發現這些材料
會被海藻覆蓋
08:23
overgrown with algae, and we needed then to develop
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所以我們需要設計一個清潔的方法
08:25
a cleaning procedure, and we also looked at how
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我們也觀察海洋哺乳類 和鳥類與此的互動
08:28
seabirds and marine mammals interacted, and in fact you
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08:31
see here a sea otter that found this incredibly interesting,
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你可以看到一隻海獺 對這個挺感興趣的
08:34
and would periodically work its way across this little
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牠不時在這個迷你水床中穿梭
08:37
floating water bed, and we wanted to hire this guy
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我們好想要雇用這個小傢伙
08:40
or train him to be able to clean the surface
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或訓練牠幫我們清理 這些結構表面之類的
08:42
of these things, but that's for the future.
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但那是未來的事
08:44
Now really what we were doing,
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所以我們真正在做的是
08:46
we were working in four areas.
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我們於四個方面進行研究
08:47
Our research covered the biology of the system,
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我們的研究範圍包含 這個系統的生物方面
08:50
which included studying the way algae grew,
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像是研究藻類的生長方式
08:52
but also what eats the algae, and what kills the algae.
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什麼東西會吃掉微藻 還有什麼東西會殺死它
08:56
We did engineering to understand what we would need
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我們於工程方面了解我們需要什麼材料
08:58
to be able to do to build this structure,
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來建造整個結構
09:01
not only on the small scale, but how we would build it
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不止是小規模,而是如何建造
09:03
on this enormous scale that will ultimately be required.
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我們最終需要的極大規模成品
09:07
I mentioned we looked at birds and marine mammals
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我有提到我們研究鳥類和海洋哺乳類
09:10
and looked at basically the environmental impact
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並全面評估它的環境影響
09:12
of the system, and finally we looked at the economics,
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最後我們解決經濟方面的問題
09:16
and what I mean by economics is,
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我所指的經濟是
09:17
what is the energy required to run the system?
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這系統需要多少能源來運作?
09:20
Do you get more energy out of the system
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你能夠從系統提出
09:22
than you have to put into the system
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比所輸入的還要更多能源嗎?
09:23
to be able to make the system run?
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09:25
And what about operating costs?
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它的運作成本多少?
09:27
And what about capital costs?
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它需要多少資本?
09:29
And what about, just, the whole economic structure?
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它整體的經濟架構穩固嗎?
09:33
So let me tell you that it's not going to be easy,
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讓我告訴你,這不會是簡單的事
09:36
and there's lots more work to do in all four
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我們在這四個方面 都還有很多努力空間
09:39
of those areas to be able to really make the system work.
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才有辦法讓這個系統真正運作
09:42
But we don't have a lot of time, and I'd like to show you
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但是我們時間不多,所以我想給你看
09:45
the artist's conception of how this system might look
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我們預計這個系統將會如何呈現
09:49
if we find ourselves in a protected bay
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於一個想像的海灣
09:51
somewhere in the world, and we have in the background
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在世界的某處,在背景中
09:54
in this image, the waste water treatment plant
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可見廢水處理廠
09:57
and a source of flue gas for the CO2,
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以及提供二氧化碳的排氣煙囪
10:00
but when you do the economics of this system,
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但是當你算算系統的經濟收支
10:03
you find that in fact it will be difficult to make it work.
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你會發現僅這樣是很難運作的
10:06
Unless you look at the system as a way to treat waste water,
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除非你把這系統想成 廢水處理的替代方式
10:10
sequester carbon, and potentially for photovoltaic panels
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並有固碳、結合太陽發電
10:14
or wave energy or even wind energy,
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或是海潮發電、風力發電等可能性
10:18
and if you start thinking in terms of
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如果你開始思考
10:19
integrating all of these different activities,
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如何結合各式各樣的活動
10:22
you could also include in such a facility aquaculture.
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你也可以在這個系統加入水產養殖
10:27
So we would have under this system a shellfish aquaculture
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像是在這個系統底下 我們有貝類養殖
10:30
where we're growing mussels or scallops.
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可以養殖淡菜或扇貝
10:32
We'd be growing oysters and things
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我們可以養殖生蠔等等
10:35
that would be producing high value products and food,
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可以提高經濟價值的食物和產品
10:37
and this would be a market driver as we build the system
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然後利用這點來刺激市場
10:40
to larger and larger scales so that it becomes, ultimately,
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慢慢把系統越做越大,直到最後
10:44
competitive with the idea of doing it for fuels.
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將之作為生產生物燃料來源的理由 才有競爭力
10:49
So there's always a big question that comes up,
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還有一個問題常常浮現
10:52
because plastic in the ocean has got a really bad reputation
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就是塑膠在海洋中一直有很不好的聲譽
10:55
right now, and so we've been thinking cradle to cradle.
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因此,我們用綠色經濟概念觀點思考
10:58
What are we going to do with all this plastic that we're
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我們要如何處理這些
11:01
going to need to use in our marine environment?
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我們需要在海洋環境中運用的塑膠?
11:04
Well, I don't know if you know about this,
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我不知道你有沒有聽說這事
11:05
but in California, there's a huge amount of plastic
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但是在加州,有大量的塑膠
11:08
that's used in fields right now as plastic mulch,
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現在正被利用於農田中 當作塑膠覆蓋物
11:11
and this is plastic that's making these tiny little greenhouses
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塑膠在土壤表面形成極小的溫室
11:15
right along the surface of the soil, and this provides
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11:17
warming the soil to increase the growing season,
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它可以提高土壤表面溫度 以延長生長季節
11:21
it allows us to control weeds,
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並讓農夫能夠控制雜草
11:23
and, of course, it makes the watering much more efficient.
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當然,它也能提高灌溉效率
11:27
So the OMEGA system will be part
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所以OMEGA系統 也將能發揮類似的功用
11:29
of this type of an outcome, and that when we're finished
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所以當我們於海洋環境的作法成功後
11:32
using it in the marine environment, we'll be using it,
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11:35
hopefully, on fields.
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將會將它利用於農田中
11:37
Where are we going to put this,
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那我們到底要把這個系統放哪?
11:39
and what will it look like offshore?
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它在海岸線會長什麼樣子?
11:41
Here's an image of what we could do in San Francisco Bay.
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這個影像是將這套系統 用於舊金山灣的樣子
11:44
San Francisco produces 65 million gallons a day
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舊金山一天製造6500萬加侖的廢水
11:47
of waste water. If we imagine a five-day retention time
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如果我們假設這系統的保水時間是五天
11:50
for this system, we'd need 325 million gallons
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我們將需要容納3.25億加侖才能容納
11:52
to accomodate, and that would be about 1,280 acres
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差不多是1280英畝大的OMEGA系統
11:56
of these OMEGA modules floating in San Francisco Bay.
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漂浮在舊金山灣中
12:00
Well, that's less than one percent
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其實那不到舊金山灣面積的百分之一
12:02
of the surface area of the bay.
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12:03
It would produce, at 2,000 gallons per acre per year,
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若以每年每英畝兩千加侖計算
12:07
it would produce over 2 million gallons of fuel,
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它將生產大於兩百萬加侖的生物燃料
12:10
which is about 20 percent of the biodiesel,
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約等於舊金山生物柴油 或一般柴油需求量的20%
12:12
or of the diesel that would be required in San Francisco,
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12:15
and that's without doing anything about efficiency.
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而且這還是尚未加強效率的計算
12:18
Where else could we potentially put this system?
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我們還可以把這系統放在哪裡?
12:21
There's lots of possibilities.
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可能性很多
12:24
There's, of course, San Francisco Bay, as I mentioned.
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像我之前提到,有舊金山灣
12:26
San Diego Bay is another example,
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聖地牙哥灣是另一個例子
12:28
Mobile Bay or Chesapeake Bay, but the reality is,
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莫比爾灣或是切薩皮克灣,但事實是
12:31
as sea level rises, there's going to be lots and lots
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隨著海平面上升 將會有許多的新機會
12:33
of new opportunities to consider. (Laughter)
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(笑聲)
12:37
So what I'm telling you about is a system
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所以我現在向各位描述的是
12:41
of integrated activities.
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一個整合各種活動的系統
12:44
Biofuels production is integrated with alternative energy
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生物燃料結合替代能源
12:47
is integrated with aquaculture.
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結合水產養殖
12:50
I set out to find a pathway
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我一開始是為了尋找一個
12:54
to innovative production of sustainable biofuels,
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能夠永續生產生物燃料的創新方法
12:59
and en route I discovered that what's really required
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而在這過程中 我發現達到永續經營真正需要的
13:02
for sustainability is integration more than innovation.
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不是創新,而是整合現有的系統
13:10
Long term, I have great faith
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長遠來看,我有信心
13:13
in our collective and connected ingenuity.
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我們的集體智慧能夠激出火花
13:18
I think there is almost no limit to what we can accomplish
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我相信,幾乎沒有東西 能限制我們能達成的成就
13:23
if we are radically open
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只要我們積極求新
13:25
and we don't care who gets the credit.
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且不在乎最後功歸於何人
13:29
Sustainable solutions for our future problems
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解決我們未來難題的永續方案
13:33
are going to be diverse
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將會是多元化的
13:35
and are going to be many.
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並有許多可能
13:38
I think we need to consider everything,
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我認為我們需要考慮所有方面
13:40
everything from alpha to OMEGA.
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自 alpha (希臘字母的第一個) 至 OMEGA (最後一個)
13:43
Thank you. (Applause)
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謝謝 (掌聲)
13:46
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:52
Chris Anderson: Just a quick question for you, Jonathan.
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克里斯.安德森(CA): 強納森,我有個問題
13:55
Can this project continue to move forward within
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這個計畫可以持續在NASA內部進行
13:58
NASA or do you need some very ambitious
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還是你們現在需要有企圖心的綠能基金
14:01
green energy fund to come and take it by the throat?
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來注入資金並促使它完成?
強納森.特倫特(JT): 現在已發展到的階段是
14:06
Jonathan Trent: So it's really gotten to a stage now
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14:07
in NASA where they would like to spin it out into something
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NASA 有意願將這個系統實際
14:10
which would go offshore, and there are a lot of issues
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在海岸操作,但是在美國境內
14:12
with doing it in the United States because of limited
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有許多問題因為有許多許可限制
14:15
permitting issues and the time required to get permits
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並且申請於外海作業的許可過程冗長
14:17
to do things offshore.
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14:19
It really requires, at this point, people on the outside,
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所以現在真正需要外界人士
14:21
and we're being radically open with this technology
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而我們也很前衛的開放這個技術
14:24
in which we're going to launch it out there
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我們基本上就要把它推出去
14:25
for anybody and everybody who's interested
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給所有感興趣的人
14:28
to take it on and try to make it real.
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都可以試著把它實踐
14:29
CA: So that's interesting. You're not patenting it.
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CA:這真有趣 你們並不要把它變成專利
14:32
You're publishing it.
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你們要將之發表
14:34
JT: Absolutely.
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14:34
CA: All right. Thank you so much.
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JT:一點也沒錯
CA:非常好,謝謝你
14:36
JT: Thank you. (Applause)
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JT:謝謝 (掌聲)
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