Apple's promise to be carbon neutral by 2030 | Lisa Jackson and Liz Ogbu

Transcriber: TED Translators Admin Reviewer: Mirjana Čutura

翻译人员: TED Translators Admin 校对人员: Yolanda Zhang

Liz Ogbu: So Lisa,

莉兹·奥格布（Liz Ogbu）： 那么，丽莎，

Apple is on target to become carbon neutral

苹果公司的目标是到 2030 年

across its entire business and manufacturing supply chain

在整个业务和制造供应链中

by 2030.

实现碳中性。

Can you explain exactly what that means?

你能具体解释一下 这个目标吗？

Lisa Jackson: Sure.

丽莎·杰克逊（Lisa Jackson）： 好的。

So today Apple is carbon neutral for all of our own operations.

那么目前，苹果内部的 所有基础设施都是碳中性的。

And we're running on 100 percent renewable energy

而且，我们的企业园区、

for our corporate campuses,

专卖店

for our stores

和数据中心

and for our data centers.

使用的也都是 100% 的可再生能源。

So we know how to do this work.

因此我们知道 如何做到这一点。

The challenge for 2030 is to convert our supply chain,

2030 年的挑战 是转变我们的供应链，

and that work has already begun.

而这项工作实际上已经开始了。

We already have 70 suppliers,

我们已经有 70 家供应商，

over eight gigawatts of energy coming online

超过 80 亿瓦的能源进入了

in our supply chain,

我们的供应链。

and then our last piece

最后一步就是

will be to convert the energy that our customers use

将我们的客户

用来为我们的设备充电的能源

to charge our devices

to clean energy.

转换成清洁能源。

LO: What are some of the biggest changes

莉兹： 为了实现这些目标，

that Apple's going to need to make in its business operations

苹果需要对其业务运营

in order to be able to achieve those goals?

做出哪些重大的改变？

LJ: So imagine if instead of mining material

丽莎：想象一下， 如果我们不是

to go into Apple products,

从开采材料开始 生产苹果产品，

we actually started with recycled material.

而是从回收材料开始，会怎么样。

So we're not going all the way back to the mine

也就是说，我们不会通过 冶炼、运输和加工

through smelting, transportation, processing.

回到原材料开采。

Instead, we're really talking about reprocessing to some degree

相反，我们真正的着眼点 在于某种程度的再加工，

and putting that material right back into products --

并将这些材料 重新加工成产品，

super important with things like conflict metals or rare earths.

这对于争端金属 或稀土的利用来说非常重要。

So Apple has been doing that work now for several years.

苹果公司已经连续多年 采取了这样的策略。

We've actually promised

我们已经承诺会用

that we want to make all of our products out of recycled and renewable materials.

可回收和可再生的材料 制造我们所有的产品。

And so that investment

所以这种投资

also means we get to take away all the carbon emissions

也意味着我们可以消除

associated with everything up until the point of the recycled material.

所有与回收材料相关的碳排放。

LO: So it strikes me that you actually hold a really interesting perspective.

莉兹：我发现你其实 有一个非常有趣的观点，

You know, you're now at Apple

你现在在苹果公司

and, like, deep in the business world around these things,

处理很多业务相关的事情，

but formerly, you actually led the US Environmental Protection Agency

但你也曾在奥巴马时期领导过

under the Obama administration,

美国环境保护署，

so you've seen the government side as well.

所以你也有一些 政府方面的视角。

What, in your mind, is the right way

那么在你看来，

to look at the respective roles of the state and the market

应该如何正确看待国家和市场 在应对气候危机中

in fighting the climate crisis?

各自所扮演的角色？

LJ: I don't think there's anything that business can do

丽莎： 我不认为商业可以取代

that replaces the role of government and leadership.

政府和领导的角色。

Yes, I ran the EPA,

没错，我确实领导过环保局，

but the other part of my history is I worked there almost 20 years

但事实上在我成为局长之前，

before I became the head of the EPA.

我在那里工作了将近 20 年。

And you see firsthand, right,

一个很明确的事实就是，

that only government is really charged with protecting its citizens.

只有政府才真正承担着 保护其公民的责任。

We always think protection, and we think the military,

我们总是习惯性地把保护人民 和军队的职责联系起来，

but I think the protection of the Environmental Protection Agency

但我认为环境保护署、

or the Air Quality Board in California

加州空气质量委员会，

or a local health department

或当地卫生部门

is as important to the day-to-day life of the people in that jurisdiction

对该管辖区人民日常生活的保障

as anything that the other security-type protection can provide.

与其他安全类型的保护同样重要。

Now, business is a different story.

商业则是另一回事。

I think business has an incredibly important role to play in leading,

我认为商业有着 极其重要的领导示范作用，

especially at this time.

尤其是当前这个时刻。

因此，当苹果公司宣布 在 2030 年实现碳中性这一目标时——

So when Apple said its goal is 2030 carbon neutral --

obviously the UN is saying 2050 carbon neutral --

虽然联合国的目标是 在 2050 年实现碳中性——

we decided to challenge ourselves to go as fast as we could possibly do it

我们决定挑战自己， 尽可能加快步伐，

so that other businesses wouldn't have an excuse to say,

这样其他企业就不会有借口说，

"I need longer.

“我需要远比这更长的时间

I need much, much longer."

才能实现这个目标。”

I think it's great to see this moment

我很高兴在这个时刻

where suddenly there seems to be a realization

看到人们突然意识到

that climate change policy cannot be foisted on others,

气候变化政策不能强加于人，

but that, in fact, it has to be organic,

而必须是“顺其自然”的——

you know, for lack of a better word.

我暂时想不到 更好的词来代替。

And it's not an either-or.

这也不是一个非此即彼的问题。

It's always been this weird, you know, belief that we're taught from little

我们从小就被教导， 要么成功，要么做正确的事，

that you can either be successful or you can do the right thing.

这一直都是一种很奇怪的信念。

There's no difference between the two; it's a false choice.

这两者没有本质上的区别， 原本就不该区分这样的选择。

LO: Although a lot of us have been talking about justice for some time,

莉兹：虽然很长时间以来 人们都在谈论正义的话题，

it is only recently that I think

但直到最近，我认为 这种与环境和气候有关的

this idea of justice as it relates to the environment and climate

正义的理念

is making appearance in a forum such as this.

才开始在类似这样的 一个论坛上被公开讨论。

You've personally described systemic racism and climate change

你个人已经将系统性的种族主义 和气候变化描述为

as interconnected issues,

一个相互关联的问题。

and I think it would be great to hear more.

能再详细展开一下吗？

丽莎：对我来说， 二者是同一个概念。

LJ: To me, they're just the same thing.

There is no climate justice without real justice.

没有真正的正义， 就没有气候正义。

There is no climate change remedy that is going to be made and stick

没有任何一种气候变化的补救措施

that doesn't involve justice.

是不涉及正义的。

And sometimes, more and more, I'm starting to think

我越来越多地开始认为，

that we shouldn't attack climate change,

我们不应该攻击气候变化，

而是应该攻击正义和不公，

we should attack justice and injustice,

and if we did, climate change would take care of itself.

如果我们这样做了， 气候变化问题就会自行解决。

For me, it's always come down to

对我来说，这总是可以归结为

restoring people to the center of the discussion of solutions

让人们重新聚焦于解决方案的讨论，

and restoring representation

让受气候变化影响最大的社区

for the communities most impacted by climate change

重新回到

at the table of solution-making.

制定解决方案的谈判桌上。

LO: Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

莉兹： 谢谢你。

It's been a real pleasure to speak with you today,

今天很高兴能跟你对话，

期待着看到你如何推进

and I look forward to seeing

how you advanced the efforts you talked about.

你刚才提到的这些措施。

LJ: And thank you for the voice you've been.

丽莎：谢谢你的发声。

I think it's super important that leadership look like us,

希望能有更多的领导者 像我们一样行动，

but also sound like you.

并能像你那样为正义发声。

So thank you.

谢谢。