Jorge Ramos: Why journalists have an obligation to challenge power (with English subtitles) | TED

Translator: Camille Martínez

翻译人员: Wei Wu 校对人员: heng gao

I'm a journalist,

我是一名记者，

and I'm an immigrant.

我也是个移民。

And these two conditions define me.

这两个身份定义了我。

I was born in Mexico,

我在墨西哥出生，

but I've spent more than half my life reporting in the United States,

但是我的大半生都是 在美国做记者

a country which was itself created by immigrants.

美国本身是一个由 移民构成的国家。

As a reporter

作为一名记者，

and as a foreigner,

作为一个外国人，

I've learned that neutrality,

我学到了：保持中立、

silence

保持沉默、

and fear aren't the best options --

和害怕退缩都不是最佳选择——

not in journalism, nor in life.

对新闻调查、对人生都不是。

Neutrality

保持中立

is often an excuse that we journalists use

是我们记者经常用的借口

to hide from our true responsibility.

来躲避我们真正的责任。

What is that responsibility?

我们的责任是什么？

It is to question

那就是

and to challenge

对当权者

those in positions of power.

提出质疑和挑战。

That's what journalism is for.

这是新闻报道的职责所在。

That's the beauty of journalism:

这也是新闻报道美丽的地方：

to question and challenge the powerful.

质疑和挑战当权者。

Of course, we have the obligation to report reality as it is,

当然，我们有责任在报道时 保证新闻真实性，

not how we would like it to be.

而不是按我们的喜好来报道。

In that sense, I agree with the principle of objectivity:

从这个角度说，我同意 客观性原则：

if a house is blue, I say that it's blue.

如果一座房子是蓝色的，我会说它是蓝色的。

If there are a million unemployed people, I say there are a million.

如果失业人口总数是一百万， 我会说有一百万。

But neutrality

但是保持中立

won't necessarily lead me to the truth.

并不能保证我报道的都是真相。

Even if I'm unequivocally scrupulous,

即使我没有偏向，非常细心，

and I present both sides of a news item --

在一则新闻中报道双方观点——

the Democratic and the Republican,

共和党和民主党，

the liberal and the conservative,

自由主义和保守派，

the government's and the opposition's --

执政政府和在野党——

in the end, I have no guarantee,

最后，我不敢保证，

nor are any of us guaranteed that we'll know what's true

我们任何人都无法保证 我们知道什么是真的

and what's not true.

什么是假的。

Life is much more complicated,

世界太复杂了，

and I believe journalism should reflect that very complexity.

而我相信新闻报道应该 反应这种复杂性。

To be clear: I refuse

说的简单点：

to be a tape recorder.

我拒绝成为录音机。

I didn't become a journalist to be a tape recorder.

我选择做记者不是 为了做录音机的。

I know what you're going to say: no one uses tape recorders nowadays.

我知道你们想说什么： 现在没人用录音机了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

In that case, I refuse to take out my cell phone

这么说吧，我拒绝 拿出我的手机

and hit the record button

按下录音按钮；

and point it in front of me as if I were at a concert,

因为当它放在我们面前，就像是 在听演唱会现场，

like a fan at a concert.

我们就像是演唱会场的粉丝一样。

That is not true journalism.

这不是真的新闻报道。

Contrary to what many people think,

跟很多人理解的不一样，

journalists are making value judgments all the time,

新闻记者经常需要做 价值评价判断，

ethical and moral judgments.

以及伦理和道德判断。

And we're always making decisions that are exceedingly personal

而我们做这些决定的时候 完全因人而异，

and extraordinarily subjective.

并且非常的具有主观性。

For example:

例如：

What happens if you're called to cover a dictatorship,

如果你被要求去报道 一个独裁统治，

like Augusto Pinochet's regime in Chile

例如在智利的 Augusto Pinochet 政权，

or Fidel Castro's in Cuba?

或者在古巴的 Fidel Castro？

Are you going to report only what the general and commander want,

你会仅仅报道那些将军 和指挥者想看的，

or will you confront them?

还是说会顶撞他们？

What happens if you find out that in your country

又或者当你发现 在你的国家

or in the country next door,

或者相邻的国家，

students are disappearing

学生莫名地失踪了

and hidden graves are appearing,

无名坟堆被发现，

or that millions of dollars are disappearing from the budget

又或者数百万美元的财政预算 不翼而飞

and that ex-presidents are magically now multimillionaires?

前总统神奇般的 成为亿万富翁？

Will you report only the official version?

你的报道会保持跟官方口径一致么？

Or what happens

又或者

if you're assigned to cover

当你被调去报道

the presidential elections of the primary superpower,

一个超级大国的 总统选举

and one of the candidates makes comments that are racist,

而有一名竞选者的言论 带有种族主义

sexist

性别歧视

and xenophobic?

并且排斥外国人？

That happened to me.

我就遇到了。

And I want to tell you what I did,

我希望告诉你我做了什么，

but first, let me explain where I'm coming from,

但是首先，让我解释下 我的出身，

so you can understand my reaction.

这样你们就能理解我的反应。

I grew up in Mexico City, the oldest of five brothers,

我在墨西哥城长大， 五个孩子中的老大，

and our family simply couldn't afford to pay for all of our college tuition.

我们的家庭根本无法支付 所有孩子的大学学费。

So I studied in the morning, and worked in the afternoon.

所以我早晨读书， 下午打工。

Eventually,

最终，

I got the job I had always wanted:

我获得了一份梦想的工作：

television reporter.

电视台记者。

It was a big opportunity.

这是个很好的机会。

But as I was working on my third story, I ended up

但是当我报道我的 第三个新闻时，

criticizing the president,

我开始批评总统，

and questioning the lack of democracy in Mexico.

并且质疑在墨西哥 缺乏民主。

In Mexico, from 1929 to 2000, elections were always rigged;

在墨西哥，从1929到2000， 选举都是被人为操纵的；

the incumbent president would hand-pick his successor.

因为在位的总统可以 挑选继任者。

That's not true democracy.

那不是真的民主。

To me it seemed like a brilliant idea to expose the president,

对于我而言曝光总统是一个 非常有创意的想法。

but to my boss --

但是我的老板——

(Laughter)

（笑声）

My boss didn't think it was such a great idea.

我的老板并没有觉得 这是个好主意。

At that time, the presidential office, Los Pinos, had issued a direct censor

那个时候，Los Pinos 总统办公室，发起了一次

against the media.

针对媒体的直接审查。

My boss, who, aside from being in charge of the show I worked for,

我的老板，在负责我的 新闻报道的同时，

was also in charge of a soccer team.

也同时管理着一支足球队。

I always suspected that he was more interested in goals

我一直怀疑他的侧重点 一直放在足球上

than in the news.

而不是新闻界。

He censored my report.

他审查了我的报道。

He asked me to change it, I said no,

他让我修改，但我拒绝了，

so he put another journalist on the story

所以他安排了另外一名记者

to write what I was supposed to say.

来报道我原本报道的内容。

I did not want to be a censored journalist.

我不想成为一名 被删减报告的记者，

I don't know where I found the strength,

我不知道从哪里来的勇气。

but I wrote my letter of resignation.

但是我最终写了一封辞职信。

And so at 24 years of age -- just 24 --

并且在24岁的年纪——才24岁哦——

I made the most difficult and most transcendental decision of my life.

我做了一个最艰难的、也是 一生中最好的一个决定。

Not only did I resign from television,

我不仅从电视台辞职了，

but I had also decided to leave my country.

同时我也决定 离开祖国。

I sold my car, a beat-up little red Volkswagen,

我把车买了，那是一辆破旧 的红色大众小轿车，

came up with some money

带了一些钱

and said goodbye to my family,

跟我的家人告别，

to my friends,

告别我的朋友，

to my streets,

离开我的街道，

to my favorite haunts -- to my tacos --

放弃我的牵挂——墨西哥玉米卷 ——

(Laughter)

（笑声）

and I bought a one-way ticket

我买了一张单程票

to Los Angeles, California.

去了加州洛杉矶。

And so I became

我就这样

one of the 250 million immigrants that exist in the world.

成为了世界上2.5亿移民 中的一份子。

Ask any immigrant

你可以问任何移民者

about the first day they arrived in their new country,

他们第一天到达一个新国家 发生的情景，

and you'll find that they remember absolutely everything,

你会发现他们都能记得 所有的事情，

like it was a movie with background music.

就像是自带背景音乐的电影一样。

In my case, I arrived in Los Angeles, the sun was setting,

在我的故事里，抵达洛杉矶的时候， 夕阳缓缓落下，

and everything I owned --

属于我的所有——

a guitar, a suitcase and some documents --

一把吉他，一个行李箱，一些文档——

I could carry all of it

我可以用我的双手

with my two hands.

拿着我所有的这些。

That feeling of absolute freedom,

那种绝对自由的感觉，

I haven't experienced since.

是我从来未体验到的。

And I survived with what little I had.

靠着这一点点家当我安顿了下来。

I obtained a student visa; I was studying.

我申请到了学生签证；我开始读书。

I ate a lot of lettuce and bread, because that's all I had.

我啃了很多面包和生菜， 因为只吃得起这些。

Finally, in 1984,

最终，到了1984年，

I landed my first job as a TV reporter in the United States.

我终于获得了在美国的 第一份工作，电视台记者。

And the first thing I noticed was that in the US,

我在美国注意到的 第一件事情，

my colleagues criticized -- and mercilessly --

就是我的同事 对罗纳德·里根总统

then president Ronald Reagan,

毫不留情的批评

and absolutely nothing happened; no one censored them.

而且什么都没发生； 没有任何审查。

And I thought:

于是我想：

I love this country.

我爱死这个国家了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

And that's how it's been

而且这就是

for more than 30 years:

这30年来一直的样子：

reporting with total freedom,

完全自由的报道，

and being treated as an equal despite being an immigrant --

即使是移民也会得到 完全平等的对待——

until, without warning,

直到，没有征兆的，

I was assigned to cover the recent US presidential election.

我被分配去报道最近的 美国总统大选。

On June 16, 2015,

在2015年6月16日，

a candidate who would eventually become the president of the United States

一位可能最终被当选为 美国总统的竞选者

said that Mexican immigrants

说墨西哥移民

were criminals,

是罪犯，

drug traffickers

毒品走私犯，

and rapists.

强奸犯。

And I knew

而我知道

that he was lying.

他在撒谎。

I knew he was wrong for one very simple reason:

我知道他是错的， 理由很简单：

I'm a Mexican immigrant.

我就是墨西哥移民。

And we're not like that.

我们不是那样子的。

So I did what any other reporter would have done:

所以我做了一个调查记者 都会做的事情：

I wrote him a letter by hand

我手写了一封信

requesting an interview,

邀请他做一次采访，

and I sent it to his Tower in New York.

我把信寄到了他在纽约的大厦。

The next day

第二天

I was at work,

我工作的时候

and I suddenly began to receive hundreds of calls and texts

突然我发现数以百计的 电话和短信消息

on my cell phone,

出现在我的手机上，

some more insulting than others.

有些非常的带有攻击性。

I didn't know what was happening until my friend came into my office

我不知道发生了什么， 直到我的朋友

and said, "They published your cell number online."

走进我的办公室告诉我， “他们在网络上公开了你的号码“

They actually did that.

他们真的这么干了。

Here's the letter they sent

这是他们发出的信

where they gave out my number.

信上公开了我的号码。

Don't bother writing it down, OK? I already changed it.

别费心记下来了，OK？ 我已经换号码了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But I learned two things.

但是我学到两件事。

The first one is that you should never, never, ever

第一个教训就是你 永远，永远，永远

give your cell number to Donald Trump.

不要把电话号码给特朗普。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

The second lesson was that I needed to stop being neutral

第二个教训是从那一刻起 我知道我不能够

at that point.

继续保持中立了。

From then on, my mission as a journalist changed.

从那时起，我作为记者的 使命改变了。

I would confront the candidate

我愿意跟竞选人对质

and show that he was wrong,

并指出他的错误——

that what he said about immigrants in the US was not true.

他对于在美国的移民的评价 是不正确的。

Let me give you some figures.

让我列出几个数据。

Ninety-seven percent of all undocumented people in the United States

目前在美国没有 合法身份的人中

are good people.

97%都是好人。

Less than three percent have committed a serious crime,

不到3%的人牵涉到 严重犯罪，

or "felony," as they say in English.

也就是英语中的“重罪”。

In comparison, six percent of US citizens have committed a serious crime.

作为对比，美国公民的 重罪犯罪率是6%。

The conclusion is that undocumented immigrants behave much better

结论是在美国没有合法身份的 人比起美国公民来

than US citizens.

更加遵纪守法。

Based on that data, I made a plan.

有了上面的数据，我有了一个计划。

Eight weeks after they published my cell number,

在他们公开了我的电话号码的 八周之后，

I obtained a press pass for a press conference

我申请到一张发布会的 记者通行证

for the candidate gaining momentum in the polls.

那个竞选者在这场发布会上 为自己拉选票造势。

I decided to confront him

我打算跟他当面对质

in person.

以个人名义。

But ...

但是…

things didn't turn out exactly as I had planned; watch:

后来事情的发展并没有 按计划进行。看：

[Donald Trump Press Conference Dubuque, Iowa]

（唐纳德·特朗普记者会） （爱荷华州迪比科市）

(Video) Jorge Ramos: Mr. Trump, I have a question about immigration.

（视频）JR：特朗普先生， 我有一个关于移民的问题。

Donald Trump: Who's next? Yes, please.

唐纳德·特朗普：下一个？谢谢。

JR: Your immigration plan is full of empty promises.

JR：你的移民方案 全都是空头许诺。

DT: Excuse me, you weren't called. Sit down. Sit down!

DT：抱歉，没叫你。 坐下。坐下！

JR: I'm a reporter; as an immigrant and as a US citizen,

JR：我是记者；我是移民者 我也是美国公民，

I have the right to ask a question.

我有权提问。

DT: No you don't. JR: I have the right to ask --

DT：你没有。 JR：我有权提问。

DT: Go back to Univision.

DT：回你的西班牙语环球电视台吧。

JR: This is the question:

JR：问题就是：

You cannot deport 11 million people.

你不可能遣返110万人。

You cannot build a 1900-mile wall.

你不可能建一座1900英里的墙。

You cannot deny citizenship to children in this country.

你不能否认在这个国家出生的 孩子的公民权。

DT: Sit down. JR: And with those ideas --

DT：坐下。 JR：基于这些观点——

DT: You weren't called.

DT：没让你提问。

JR: I'm a reporter and I have -- Don't touch me, sir.

JR：我是记者而且我有—— 别碰我，先生。

Guard 1: Please don't disrupt. You're being disruptive.

警卫1:请不要捣乱。 你现在在陶乱。

JR: I have the right to ask a question. G1: Yes, in order. In turn, sir.

JR：我有权提一个问题。 警卫1:对，排队，排队，先生。

Guard 2: Do you have your media credential?

警卫2:你有没有携带 你的媒体证？

JR: I have the right --

JR：我有权——

G2: Where? Let me see. JR: It's over there.

警卫2:哪里？我看看。 JR：在那里。

Man: Whoever's coming out, stay out.

男人：不管谁出来，不能进去。

G2: You've just got to wait your turn.

警卫2:你需要等着排到你。

Man: You're very rude. It's not about you.

男人：你非常粗鲁，这跟你没关系。

JR: It's not about you -- Man: Get out of my country!

JR：这跟你没关系—— 男人：滚出我的国家！

Man: It's not about you.

男人：不关你的事。

JR: I'm a US citizen, too.

JR：我也是美国公民。

Man: Well ...whatever. No, Univision. It's not about you.

男人：嗯……无所谓。 不，西班牙语环球台，不关你的事。

JR: It's not about you. It's about the United States.

JR：不是你的事， 这是美利坚合众国的事。

(Applause)

（掌声）

(Applause ends)

（掌声停止）

Whenever I see that video,

每次我看这个视频，

the first thing I always think is that hate

每次我首先想到的 就是仇恨的情绪

is contagious.

是传染的。

If you notice, after the candidate says, "Go back to Univision" -- that's code;

如果你留心，在竞选者说完 “回你的西班牙语环球台”——那是暗号；

what he's telling me is, "Get out of here."

他跟我说的实际上是 ”从这里滚出去。“

One member of his entourage, as if he had been given permission, said,

他的一个随从就像是 获得了授权一样，说

"Get out of my country,"

“滚出我的国家，”

not knowing that I'm also a US citizen.

没有注意到我也是美国公民。

After watching this video many times,

在观看这个视频很多次之后，

I also think that in order to break free from neutrality --

我也领悟到为了打破 中立性原则——

and for it to be a true break --

为了真正的打破它——

one has to lose their fear,

一个人必须克服自身恐惧，

and then learn how to say, "No;

学会如何说“不”；

I'm not going to be quiet.

”我不会保持沉默。“

I'm not going to sit down.

”我不会坐下。“

And I'm not going to leave."

”而且我不打算离开。“

The word "no" --

“不”这个字——

(Applause)

（掌声）

"no" is the most powerful word that exists in any language,

“不”这个字在任何语言中 都是最有力量的词汇，

and it always precedes any important change in our lives.

而且这是我们生命中任何 重大改变的前奏。

And I think there's enormous dignity

而且我觉得这是巨大的荣耀

and it generates a great deal of respect

它带来了崇高的尊敬

to be able to step back

让人能够向后退一步

and to push back and say,

反抗回去并且说，

"No."

“不”。

Elie Wiesel -- Holocaust survivor,

Elie Wiesel —— 大屠杀幸存者，

Nobel Peace Prize recipient

诺贝尔和平奖得主

and who, unfortunately, we lost very recently --

同时非常不幸地， 我们刚失去他——

said some very wise words:

说过一段睿智的话：

"We must take a side.

“我们必须站边。”

Neutrality helps only the oppressor,

“保持中立只会帮助暴君，”

never the victim."

“对受害者无益。”

And he's completely right.

他说的千真万确。

We journalists are obligated to take sides in certain circumstances;

我们记者有责任 在特定环境中站边；

in cases of racism,

在种族主义问题上，

discrimination,

在歧视问题上，

corruption,

在贪腐问题上，

lying to the public,

在对公众造假问题上，

dictatorships and human rights,

独裁和人权问题，

we need to set aside neutrality and indifference.

我们必须放下中立原则 和无偏倚原则。

Spanish has a great word

西班牙语有一个很好的词

to describe the stance that journalists should take.

用来描述一个记者 应该有的立场。

The word is "contrapoder [anti-establishment]."

这个词叫“contrapoder” （[anti-establishment]）

Basically, we journalists should be on the opposite side

简单来说我们记者 需要站在当权者的

from those in power.

对立面上。

But if you're in bed with politicians,

但是如果你想跟政客同流合污，

if you go to the baptism or wedding of the governor's son

如果想去参加执政官孩子的 洗礼或是婚礼

or if you want to be the president's buddy,

如果你希望跟总统 成为伙伴，

how are you going to criticize them?

你还能够去批评他们么？

When I'm assigned to interview a powerful or influential person,

每当我被分配去采访一位 很权势或影响力的人时，

I always keep two things in mind:

我始终牢记两件事：

if I don't ask this difficult and uncomfortable question,

如果我不问出这个难以回答 并且叫人难堪的问题，

no one else is going to;

没有其他人会问；

and that I'm never going to see this person again.

第二件事是我永远不会 再见到这个人了。

So I'm not looking to make a good impression

所以我从来没有寻求 给人留下个好印象

or to forge a connection.

或打造人脉关系。

In the end, if I have to choose between being the president's friend

最后，如果我必须在总统的 朋友还是敌人之间

or enemy,

进行选择，

I always prefer to be their enemy.

我始终选择成为他们的敌人。

In closing:

总结一下：

I know this is a difficult time to be an immigrant and a journalist,

我知道对于一个移民和记者而言 现在是一段艰难的时光，

but now more than ever,

但是比以往任何时候，

we need journalists who are prepared,

现在我们更需要那些时刻准备着的记者，

at any given moment,

在任何时候，

to set neutrality aside.

放下中立性原则，暂停保持中立。

Personally, I feel like I've been preparing for this moment

就我个人而言，我感觉 在我整个人生中

my whole life.

都在准备着。

When they censored me when I was 24,

当他们在我24岁审查我的时候，

I learned that neutrality, fear and silence often make you an accomplice

我明白保持中立，恐惧 和沉默会让你成为

in crime, abuse

犯罪、虐待行为

and injustice.

和不公正事件的帮凶。

And being an accomplice to power

成为权力的附庸

is never good journalism.

从来不是好的新闻报道。

Now, at 59 years old,

现在，我已经59岁，

I only hope to have a tiny bit

我跟当年只有24岁时

of the courage and mental clarity I had at 24,

勇气和思维灵活度 可能没有以前那样好了，

and that way, never again

即便如此，也绝对不会

remain quiet.

保持沉默。

Thank you very much.

非常感谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）