Jorge Ramos: Why journalists have an obligation to challenge power (with English subtitles) | TED

Translator: Camille Martínez

譯者: 國禎 王 審譯者: Shelley Tsang 曾雯海

我是一名記者。

我也是一位移民。

這是定義了我的兩個身分。

我出生於墨西哥。

I'm a journalist,

但我大半輩子

and I'm an immigrant.

都在美國報導。

And these two conditions define me.

一個正由移民所組成的國家。

身為記者

I was born in Mexico,

but I've spent more than half my life reporting in the United States,

以及身為外國人

我體認到中立、

a country which was itself created by immigrants.

沉默

As a reporter

和恐懼不是最好的選擇

and as a foreigner,

I've learned that neutrality,

對於新聞或生活都不是。

保持中立

silence

通常是記者們用的藉口

and fear aren't the best options --

用來躲避我們真正的責任。

not in journalism, nor in life.

Neutrality

是什麼責任呢？

is often an excuse that we journalists use

質疑

和挑戰

to hide from our true responsibility.

那些權勢者。

這就是新聞存在的意義。

What is that responsibility?

​​這也是新聞的美妙之處：

質疑和挑戰權勢。

It is to question

and to challenge

those in positions of power.

當然，我們有義務報導真相，

That's what journalism is for.

That's the beauty of journalism:

而不是我們想說什麼就說什麼。

這方面上，我同意客觀原則;

to question and challenge the powerful.

Of course, we have the obligation to report reality as it is,

如果房子是藍色的， 我就說這是藍色的。

not how we would like it to be.

如果有一百萬人失業， 我說有一百萬人失業。

In that sense, I agree with the principle of objectivity:

但秉持中立

不一定能帶我找到真相。

if a house is blue, I say that it's blue.

If there are a million unemployed people, I say there are a million.

即使我謹慎嚴格，非常細心，

But neutrality

在一則新聞中呈現雙方觀點，

won't necessarily lead me to the truth.

民主黨和共和黨、

Even if I'm unequivocally scrupulous,

自由派和保守派，

and I present both sides of a news item --

執政黨與在野黨，

最後，我還是無法保證，

the Democratic and the Republican,

也無法確保我們能理解 什麼是真的，哪些是假的。

the liberal and the conservative,

the government's and the opposition's --

世界是非常複雜的，

in the end, I have no guarantee,

我認為新聞應該就是要 反映出這種複雜性。

nor are any of us guaranteed that we'll know what's true

and what's not true.

Life is much more complicated,

我跟你們說：我拒絕

and I believe journalism should reflect that very complexity.

當一個錄音機。

我當記者並不是 為了要當錄音機。

好啦，我知道你們會說 現在沒有人用錄音機了。

To be clear: I refuse

（笑聲）

好吧，那我不想拿出我的手機

to be a tape recorder.

I didn't become a journalist to be a tape recorder.

I know what you're going to say: no one uses tape recorders nowadays.

然後按下錄音鍵

然後拿在我面前， 搞得我好像在演唱會一樣。

(Laughter)

In that case, I refuse to take out my cell phone

就像在演唱會的粉絲一樣。

這不是報導的真諦。

and hit the record button

和大多數人認知不同的，

and point it in front of me as if I were at a concert,

記者其實常常在做價值評斷

like a fan at a concert.

That is not true journalism.

倫理和道德的判斷。

Contrary to what many people think,

還有我們做這些決定時

journalists are making value judgments all the time,

完全因人而異，

ethical and moral judgments.

極其地主觀。

And we're always making decisions that are exceedingly personal

比如說：

如果你要報導一個獨裁者 你要怎麼辦？

像是智利的皮諾切。

and extraordinarily subjective.

或是古巴的卡斯楚。

For example:

你要報導出將軍和少校想要看的？

What happens if you're called to cover a dictatorship,

like Augusto Pinochet's regime in Chile

還是你要反抗他們？

or Fidel Castro's in Cuba?

或是如果你得知在你的國家

Are you going to report only what the general and commander want,

或是臨國

學生莫名消失

or will you confront them?

What happens if you find out that in your country

然後神秘墳墓被發現了？

或是幾百萬的預算消失不見了？

or in the country next door,

students are disappearing

然後神奇地

前總統成為百萬富翁。

and hidden graves are appearing,

你只會報導出官方的說法

or that millions of dollars are disappearing from the budget

還是？

and that ex-presidents are magically now multimillionaires?

如果你要報導

一個超級強權國家的 總統選舉。

Will you report only the official version?

Or what happens

而其中一位候選人做出了 種族歧視的言論

if you're assigned to cover

the presidential elections of the primary superpower,

以及性別歧視的言論，

甚至還有仇外言論。

and one of the candidates makes comments that are racist,

這我曾經歷過。

我想告訴你們我做了什麼。

sexist

但在那之前，先讓我跟你們 解釋我從何而來

and xenophobic?

你們才能了解為什麼 我會有這樣的反應。

That happened to me.

And I want to tell you what I did,

but first, let me explain where I'm coming from,

我出生自墨西哥市。 我是五個兄弟姊妹的老大。

說老實話，家裡沒有足夠的錢

so you can understand my reaction.

來支付所有人的大學學費。

所以，我早上上學，下午工作。

I grew up in Mexico City, the oldest of five brothers,

and our family simply couldn't afford to pay for all of our college tuition.

過了很久，

我得到了一份 我夢寐已久的工作：

So I studied in the morning, and worked in the afternoon.

電視記者。

這是個天大的機會。

Eventually,

但在我第三份報導中，

I got the job I had always wanted:

我批評了總統、

television reporter.

以及質疑墨西哥的民主落後。

It was a big opportunity.

But as I was working on my third story, I ended up

墨西哥從1929年到2000年 選舉都是滿滿的詐騙。

criticizing the president,

and questioning the lack of democracy in Mexico.

總統僅是用手指輪流

選出他的繼承者。

In Mexico, from 1929 to 2000, elections were always rigged;

這不是真正的民主。

對我來說，揭露這件事 是很好的主意。

the incumbent president would hand-pick his successor.

但我的老闆--

（笑聲）

That's not true democracy.

我老闆並不那麼覺得。

To me it seemed like a brilliant idea to expose the president,

在那個時期，總統府會直接 對媒體進行審查。

but to my boss --

(Laughter)

我老闆除了是負責我的新聞報導外，

My boss didn't think it was such a great idea.

At that time, the presidential office, Los Pinos, had issued a direct censor

他也同時管理一支足球隊。

against the media.

我總是懷疑他對於射門得分 比新聞更有興趣。

My boss, who, aside from being in charge of the show I worked for,

他當初也審查了我的報導。

was also in charge of a soccer team.

他要求我要更改， 但我拒絕了。

I always suspected that he was more interested in goals

於是，他換了另一個記者來寫

than in the news.

寫那篇我原本應該要做的報導。

He censored my report.

He asked me to change it, I said no,

我不想成為被審查的記者。

so he put another journalist on the story

我不知哪來的勇氣，

to write what I was supposed to say.

我提出了辭呈。

I did not want to be a censored journalist.

就這樣，在我24歲時， 就在24歲的時候，

I don't know where I found the strength,

我做出了人生中 最困難和重大的決定。

but I wrote my letter of resignation.

And so at 24 years of age -- just 24 --

我不單單是要從電視台離職，

我還決定要離開我的國家。

I made the most difficult and most transcendental decision of my life.

我賣掉我的金龜車，

一台破舊的紅色福斯汽車。

Not only did I resign from television,

我拿了一些錢，

but I had also decided to leave my country.

向我的家人、朋友道別，

I sold my car, a beat-up little red Volkswagen,

離開熟悉的街道，

離開我的角落，還有我的塔可。

（笑聲）

came up with some money

我買了一張單程車票

and said goodbye to my family,

to my friends,

到加州洛杉磯。

to my streets,

於是，我就這樣成為了

to my favorite haunts -- to my tacos --

2.5億移民的其中一個。

(Laughter)

and I bought a one-way ticket

to Los Angeles, California.

就像是世界其他地方移民一樣。

你們去問問任何一個移民

And so I became

他們來到新國家的第一天

one of the 250 million immigrants that exist in the world.

你們就會發現 他們對於那天記得一清二楚。

就像是有背景音樂的電影一樣。

Ask any immigrant

以我來說，當我到洛杉磯時， 夕陽西下。

about the first day they arrived in their new country,

and you'll find that they remember absolutely everything,

我身上所有的

僅有一把吉他、一個行李 還有一些文件。

like it was a movie with background music.

In my case, I arrived in Los Angeles, the sun was setting,

這些東西

我就用兩隻手帶著。

這種完全自由的感覺

and everything I owned --

a guitar, a suitcase and some documents --

我以往都沒有體驗過。

I could carry all of it

我用僅有的一些東西存活下來了。

with my two hands.

That feeling of absolute freedom,

我拿到了學生簽證。

我當時正在念書，

I haven't experienced since.

And I survived with what little I had.

我吃了很多萵苣和麵包， 因為我沒有更多錢了。

終於，在1984年，

I obtained a student visa; I was studying.

我錄取了在美國的第一份工作。 一份電視記者的工作。

I ate a lot of lettuce and bread, because that's all I had.

首先，我先注意到的是 我的美國同事們

Finally, in 1984,

輪番狠狠批評雷根總統。

I landed my first job as a TV reporter in the United States.

然後什麼事情都沒有發生。

And the first thing I noticed was that in the US,

沒有人審查。

我當時想：

my colleagues criticized -- and mercilessly --

我好愛這個國家。

（笑聲）

then president Ronald Reagan,

and absolutely nothing happened; no one censored them.

（掌聲）

And I thought:

I love this country.

於是，我就待了

(Laughter)

30多年。

完全自由地報導著

(Applause)

儘管我是個移民， 但我還是被平等對待。

And that's how it's been

直到很快地，我要報導

for more than 30 years:

最近的美國總統大選。

reporting with total freedom,

and being treated as an equal despite being an immigrant --

until, without warning,

2015年6月16日，

I was assigned to cover the recent US presidential election.

一位候選人最後變成了

美國總統。

他說墨西哥移民

On June 16, 2015,

都是罪犯、

a candidate who would eventually become the president of the United States

毒梟、

said that Mexican immigrants

還有強姦犯。

我知道

他是在說謊。

were criminals,

我知道他錯了。 理由很簡單：

drug traffickers

我是一位墨西哥移民，

and rapists.

但我們不是這樣的。

And I knew

所以我做了記者都會做的事情：

that he was lying.

I knew he was wrong for one very simple reason:

我手寫了一封信，

I'm a Mexican immigrant.

And we're not like that.

我邀請做一場採訪，

So I did what any other reporter would have done:

我寄了一封信到他紐約的大廈。

隔一天，

I wrote him a letter by hand

我在辦公室， 很快地我開始收到

requesting an interview,

數百通電話和手機訊息。

and I sent it to his Tower in New York.

一個比一個更污辱的訊息。

The next day

我不知道發生什麼事了。

I was at work,

and I suddenly began to receive hundreds of calls and texts

直到我一個朋友到了我辦公室。

他跟我說：「有人把你的電話號碼 公布在網路上面。」

on my cell phone,

some more insulting than others.

I didn't know what was happening until my friend came into my office

的確，有人真的這樣做。

這就是他們寄來的信

and said, "They published your cell number online."

上面公布了我的號碼。

They actually did that.

你們不寫下來嗎？誒？ 但別麻煩了，我早就換了。

Here's the letter they sent

（笑聲）

但是，我學到兩件事。

where they gave out my number.

第一，絕對不要、不要、不要

Don't bother writing it down, OK? I already changed it.

讓別人把你的手機號碼

(Laughter)

給川普。

But I learned two things.

（笑聲）

The first one is that you should never, never, ever

（掌聲）

give your cell number to Donald Trump.

第二個教訓是我在這個時候 不應該保持中立。

(Laughter)

(Applause)

從那時候開始， 我改變我當記者的使命。

我要對抗候選人，

The second lesson was that I needed to stop being neutral

然後證明是他錯了。

at that point.

他對於美國移民的論述

From then on, my mission as a journalist changed.

並不是正確的。

I would confront the candidate

讓我給你們一些數據。

有97%沒有合法身分的人

and show that he was wrong,

在美國。

that what he said about immigrants in the US was not true.

他們都是好人。

小於3%的人，犯過重罪

Let me give you some figures.

Ninety-seven percent of all undocumented people in the United States

就是英文說的 “felony”

相對地，

6%的美國人犯過重罪。

are good people.

Less than three percent have committed a serious crime,

結論就是

毫無身分的移民 表現得比較好，

or "felony," as they say in English.

In comparison, six percent of US citizens have committed a serious crime.

相較於那些美國人而言。

透過這些數據，我有個計劃。

The conclusion is that undocumented immigrants behave much better

在我的手機號碼被公布的八周後，

than US citizens.

我以記者的身分去參與 一場候選人的記者會

Based on that data, I made a plan.

一場拉抬聲勢的記者會，

Eight weeks after they published my cell number,

我決定要親自

I obtained a press pass for a press conference

起身對抗

for the candidate gaining momentum in the polls.

但是……

事情並不如我所想的 那麼順利，你們看：

I decided to confront him

in person.

（愛荷華州迪比克的 唐納．川普記者會）

But ...

things didn't turn out exactly as I had planned; watch:

(影片) 喬治．拉莫斯：川普先生， 想問一個關於移民的問題。

川普：誰是下一個？ 好，請。

[Donald Trump Press Conference Dubuque, Iowa]

拉莫斯：你對於移民的計畫 都是空頭支票。

川普：坐下。沒有人叫你。 拉莫斯：我是記者

(Video) Jorge Ramos: Mr. Trump, I have a question about immigration.

身為移民和美國居民， 我有權利可以問問題。

Donald Trump: Who's next? Yes, please.

川普：不，你沒有被叫到。 拉莫斯：我有權利可以……

JR: Your immigration plan is full of empty promises.

川普：滾回去環球電視網。

DT: Excuse me, you weren't called. Sit down. Sit down!

拉莫斯：問題是這樣的：

JR: I'm a reporter; as an immigrant and as a US citizen,

您不能遣送1100萬人。

I have the right to ask a question.

您不能蓋一個3000公里的城牆。

DT: No you don't. JR: I have the right to ask --

DT: Go back to Univision.

您不能否認在這個國家 出生的兒童公民權。

JR: This is the question:

You cannot deport 11 million people.

川普：請坐下。 拉莫斯：基於這些……

You cannot build a 1900-mile wall.

川普：你沒有被叫到

拉莫斯：我是名記者，我有…… 先生，不要碰我。

You cannot deny citizenship to children in this country.

警衛1：請不要鬧。 你現在已經打擾到我們。

DT: Sit down. JR: And with those ideas --

拉莫斯：我有權利可以發問。 警衛1：對，按顺序，排隊，先生。

DT: You weren't called.

JR: I'm a reporter and I have -- Don't touch me, sir.

警衛2：你有媒體證嗎？

Guard 1: Please don't disrupt. You're being disruptive.

拉莫斯：我有權……

警衛2：在哪裡？給我看看。 拉莫斯：在那裡。

JR: I have the right to ask a question. G1: Yes, in order. In turn, sir.

民眾：走開，滾去外面。

警衛2：你必須等到輪到你。

民眾：你很噁心。這跟你沒關係。

Guard 2: Do you have your media credential?

JR: I have the right --

拉莫斯：這跟你沒關係…… 民眾：滾出我的國家！

G2: Where? Let me see. JR: It's over there.

民眾：不甘你的事。

Man: Whoever's coming out, stay out.

拉莫斯：我一樣也是美國公民。

民眾：好吧，隨便。 不，環球電視網，不關你的事。

G2: You've just got to wait your turn.

Man: You're very rude. It's not about you.

拉莫斯：這跟你沒關係。 跟美國有關係。

JR: It's not about you -- Man: Get out of my country!

Man: It's not about you.

JR: I'm a US citizen, too.

（掌聲）

Man: Well ...whatever. No, Univision. It's not about you.

JR: It's not about you. It's about the United States.

（掌聲）

(Applause)

看了這影片後， 我總是會想到的是

厭惡

(Applause ends)

是會傳染的。

如果你們注意看候選人在對我說 「滾回去環球電視網」後，

Whenever I see that video,

這些都是暗號。

the first thing I always think is that hate

就是跟我說 「你從這裡滾開吧」

is contagious.

其中一名追隨者，

如同他被允許般，對我說：

If you notice, after the candidate says, "Go back to Univision" -- that's code;

「滾出我的國家。」

what he's telling me is, "Get out of here."

他也不知道我也是美國公民。

One member of his entourage, as if he had been given permission, said,

看了這支影片很多次後，

"Get out of my country,"

我也開始想為了打破中立

not knowing that I'm also a US citizen.

而且是真實地打破中立

必須無所謂懼。

After watching this video many times,

之後，我學會說： 「不，我不會閉嘴」

I also think that in order to break free from neutrality --

and for it to be a true break --

我不會乖乖坐著。

one has to lose their fear,

我也不會走。

and then learn how to say, "No;

不。

I'm not going to be quiet.

（掌聲）

I'm not going to sit down.

And I'm not going to leave."

「不」正是每個語言中 最強大的字詞。

The word "no" --

(Applause)

而在這個字隨之而來的 是生命中重要的改變。

我認為這是無比的尊嚴

"no" is the most powerful word that exists in any language,

它帶來尊重

力量會分散

and it always precedes any important change in our lives.

並抵抗，且說

不。

And I think there's enormous dignity

納粹大屠殺的倖存者 艾利·魏瑟爾

and it generates a great deal of respect

也是諾貝爾和平獎得主。

to be able to step back

同時，遺憾地，我們也失去了它。

and to push back and say,

不久前，

他說過一些很有智慧的話， 他說：

"No."

Elie Wiesel -- Holocaust survivor,

「我們必須選邊站，

Nobel Peace Prize recipient

中立僅能幫助壓迫者，

and who, unfortunately, we lost very recently --

而不是受害者。」

said some very wise words:

他說的很有道理。

記者在某些情況下 是有義務要選邊站的。

"We must take a side.

Neutrality helps only the oppressor,

在種族主義、

never the victim."

歧視、

And he's completely right.

貪汙、

We journalists are obligated to take sides in certain circumstances;

公眾謊言、

獨裁及人權方面，

in cases of racism,

我們應該放下中立和冷漠。

discrimination,

corruption,

西班牙文中，有個精確的字

lying to the public,

來描述記者們該站在哪裡。

dictatorships and human rights,

we need to set aside neutrality and indifference.

這個字就是對抗（contrapoder）。

Spanish has a great word

事實上，記者應該要站在 那些權勢者的另一邊。

to describe the stance that journalists should take.

但是，如果你和政治人物上床。

The word is "contrapoder [anti-establishment]."

Basically, we journalists should be on the opposite side

如果你去了政府官員女兒的 受洗儀式或是婚禮。

或是如果你想成為總統的好朋友。

from those in power.

你要怎麼去批評呢?

But if you're in bed with politicians,

當我要去採訪 權勢者或是有影響力的人時，

if you go to the baptism or wedding of the governor's son

我總是在想兩件事：

or if you want to be the president's buddy,

如果我不能問出難以回答或是 令人難堪的問題，

how are you going to criticize them?

那就沒有人會問了。

When I'm assigned to interview a powerful or influential person,

而我可能永遠不會

I always keep two things in mind:

再看到這個人。

if I don't ask this difficult and uncomfortable question,

於是，我並不是想處得舒服

no one else is going to;

或是留後路。

and that I'm never going to see this person again.

最終，如果我必須選擇成為 總統的朋友或是敵人。

So I'm not looking to make a good impression

我總是傾向選擇當敵人。

or to forge a connection.

In the end, if I have to choose between being the president's friend

總結來說：

我知道這些都是身為移民或是記者 非常困難的時刻。

or enemy,

I always prefer to be their enemy.

但是現在比起以往，

In closing:

更需要記者 在特定的時刻準備好

I know this is a difficult time to be an immigrant and a journalist,

選邊站、放棄中立。

but now more than ever,

我個人覺得我已經為這個時刻 準備了一輩子。

we need journalists who are prepared,

當我24歲被審查時，

at any given moment,

to set neutrality aside.

就學到中立、害怕及沉默

Personally, I feel like I've been preparing for this moment

常常會讓你變成

my whole life.

When they censored me when I was 24,

犯罪、陋習

I learned that neutrality, fear and silence often make you an accomplice

和不公義的共犯。

還有權勢的共犯。

這絕對不是好的新聞。

in crime, abuse

現在，我59歲了。

and injustice.

我只希望能夠有點

And being an accomplice to power

is never good journalism.

24歲時的勇氣和清醒的腦袋。

Now, at 59 years old,

這樣，我就永遠不會

I only hope to have a tiny bit

保持沉默。

of the courage and mental clarity I had at 24,

謝謝。

（掌聲）

and that way, never again

謝謝。

（掌聲）

remain quiet.

Thank you very much.

(Applause)

Thank you.

(Applause)