The unpaid work that GDP ignores -- and why it really counts | Marilyn Waring

翻译人员: Wanting Zhong 校对人员: psjmz mz

(In Maori: My mountain is Taupiri.)

（毛利语：陶皮里是我的山。）

(Waikato is my river.)

（怀卡托是我的河。）

（我的名字是玛丽琳。）

(My name is Marilyn.)

(Hello.)

（你好。）

As you've heard, when I was very young,

正如各位听说过的， 我在很年轻的时候

I was elected to the New Zealand Parliament.

就被选举进入新西兰议会。

And at that age, you learn mostly by listening to others' stories.

在那个年纪，你大多数时候 都通过聆听他人的故事学习。

I remember a woman who'd been injured in a farm accident,

我记得一位在农场事故中 受伤的女性，

and it was coming up to shearing time

那时候快到了农场

on the farm,

剪羊毛的时节，

and she had to be replaced by a shepherd,

于是她不得不由一位牧羊人，

by a rousie in the woolshed,

由一位剪毛棚里的杂工取代， 【注：新西兰俗语】

and of course there was still someone needed to manage the household

当然了，还需要有人 管理家庭起居，

and to prepare the food for the shearing gangs.

并为剪羊毛的伙计们准备食物。

And her mother came to help with that.

她的母亲过来帮忙了。

But the family got no compensation for the mother,

但是这家人并没有给 这位母亲报酬，

because that's what mothers and family members are supposed to do.

因为这是母亲和家庭成员 理所应当做的。

One year, a company called Gold Mines New Zealand

有一年，一个叫做 “新西兰金矿”的公司

applied for a prospecting license on our beautiful Mt. Pirongia.

申请了在我们美丽的皮隆亚山上 进行勘探的许可证。

It is a mountain

这座山拥有

full of extraordinary ecosystems,

非凡的生态系统，

of verdant, virgin native forests.

葱郁的原始森林。

它制造氧气，它是天然碳汇， 【注：吸收二氧化碳的自然环境】

It produced oxygen, it was a carbon sink,

it was a home for endangered species and for pollinating species

它是濒危物种以及 周围农田的传粉物种

in the farmland around.

的家园。

And the mining company put up this great economic prospectus

而采矿公司公布的 这份出色的经济计划书，

that was about how much money could be made

讲的全是开采我们的山

能够赚到多少钱，

from mining our mountain,

about all the growth and development

能够为新西兰的财政预算

that would show in New Zealand's budgetary forecasts,

带来多少增长与发展，

and we were just left with the language

而只留给了我们

of all that we valued about our mountain.

关于我们所珍视的山的语言。

Fortunately, we stopped.

所幸的是，他们及时停手了。

And then I remembered

然后我又记起了

a woman who had three children under five

一位既要抚养三个 不到五岁的孩子，

who was caring for her elderly parents,

又要照顾年迈双亲的女性，

and nobody seemed to think that at some stage

似乎没人考虑过， 在某个阶段

she might actually need some assistance with childcare,

她可能需要育儿方面的帮助，

because she wasn't in the paid workforce.

因为她不属于有偿的劳动力。

And there began to be a pattern in all of these stories I was being told.

在我听说的这些故事中 渐渐浮现出某种规律。

And I started to ask enough questions

于是我开始问各种问题，

to try and track to the core of this pattern of values

试图追溯到在这些故事中 均有所体现的

that was part of all of these stories.

这种价值规律的核心。

And I found it

我在一个

被称为“国内生产总值”， 或者 GDP 的经济学公式中

in an economic formula called the "gross domestic product,"

or the GDP.

找到了它。

Most of you will have heard of it.

你们大部分人应该听说过这个词。

Many of you won't have any idea what it actually means.

你们很多人可能完全不明白 这个词到底是什么意思。

The rules were drawn up by Western-educated men in 1953.

规则是在 1953 年 由接受了西方教育的男人们制订的。

They established a boundary of production

他们在制订这些规则时，

建立起了生产范畴的界线。

in drawing up these rules.

What they were keen to measure

他们热衷衡量的是

was everything that involved a market transaction.

涉及到市场交换的一切。

So on one side of the boundary,

于是在界线的一侧，

everything where there was a market exchange was counted.

所有包含了市场交换 的行为都计算在内，

It doesn't matter whether the exchange is legal or illegal.

不管该交换是否合法。

Market exchange in the illegal trade in armaments, [munitions],

非法贸易中的市场交换， 包括走私军火弹药、

drugs, endangered species,

毒品、濒危物种、

trafficking of people --

贩卖人口——

all of this is great for growth

这些对于经济增长都很好，

and it all counts.

都可以计算在内。

On the other side of the boundary of production,

在生产范畴的另一侧，

there was this extraordinary phrase in the rules

在规则中有这么一句 神奇的话，

that the work done by the people they called "nonprimary producers"

说是被他们称作“非主要生产者” 的人完成的工作

was "of little or no value."

是“价值很小或毫无价值的”。

So I thought, let's see how many nonprimary producers we have here today.

于是我就想，让我们看看 今天在座有多少非主要生产者吧。

So in the last week or so,

在上个星期之内，

how many of you have transported members of your household or their goods

你们有多少人曾经 无偿运送过你的家庭成员

without payment?

或他们的物品？

How many of you have done a bit of cleaning, a bit of vacuuming,

你们有多少人搞过一点卫生， 吸过一点尘，

a bit of sweeping, a bit of tidying up the kitchen?

扫过一点地， 清理了一下厨房？

Yeah?

嗯？

How about going shopping for members of the household?

那么为家庭成员购物呢？

Preparing food? Cleaning up afterwards?

准备食物？餐后收拾？

Laundry? Ironing?

洗衣物？熨衣服？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Well, as far as economics is concerned,

而就经济学而言，

you were at leisure.

你们都是逍遥自在的无产出者。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声与喝彩）

Now, how about the women

那么，有哪些女士

who have been pregnant and who have had children?

曾经怀孕、生过孩子？

Yes.

好的。

Now, I really hate to tell you this,

我实在不愿意这么告诉你们，

because it might well have been hard labor,

因为你的生产过程可能很艰难，

but at that moment, you were unproductive.

但在那一刻，你毫无生产性。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And some of you may have breastfed your infant.

另外你们中有些人 可能母乳哺育过你的婴儿。

Now, in the New Zealand national accounts --

在新西兰的国民经济核算里——

that's what the figures are called, that's where we get the GDP --

这是那些数额的名字， 也是 GDP 的来源——

in the New Zealand national accounts,

在新西兰的国民经济核算里，

the milk of buffalo, goats, sheep and cows

水牛奶、山羊奶、绵羊奶和牛奶

is of value

都有价值，

but not human breast milk.

但是人类母乳并没有价值。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It is the very best food on the planet.

这是地球上最好的食物。

It is the very best investment that we can make in the future health

这是我们能为那个孩子 未来的健康与教育

and education of that child.

做出的最好投资。

It doesn't count at all.

但它完全不算数。

All of those activities are on the wrong side of the production boundary.

所有这些活动都在 生产范畴错误的一侧。

And something that's very important to know

关于这个会计制度

需要清楚很重要的一件事：

about this accounting framework:

they call it "accounts,"

它叫做“（会计）核算”，

but there's no debit side.

但并没有“借方”一栏。

We just keep market exchanges going,

我们只需让市场交换继续下去，

and it's all good for growth.

一切都对经济增长有好处。

We're in Christchurch,

我们身处基督城，

where people have lived through a devastating natural disaster

这里的居民刚刚撑过 一场毁灭性的自然灾害，

and recovered.

并重振旗鼓。

And ever since that time,

自从那时开始，

New Zealand has been told

新西兰的人民就被告知

our growth figures are great, because we're rebuilding Christchurch.

我们的经济增长数字很棒， 因为我们在重建基督城。

Nothing was ever lost

国民经济会计制度里

from the national accounting framework

不曾有过任何损失，

because of the loss of lives,

哪怕我们失去了生命，

the loss of land,

失去了土地，

the loss of buildings,

失去了建筑，

the loss of special spaces.

失去了特别的场所。

Now, it might also be becoming obvious to you

你们或许已经注意到

that this boundary of production works in terms of our environment.

这个生产范畴 对我们的环境也是同理。

When we're mining it,

当我们开采矿物，

when we're deforesting,

当我们砍伐森林，

when we're deleting our environment,

当我们抛弃环境，

when we're fishing out our marine resources,

当我们以合法或非法的途径

legal or illegal,

捕捞我们的海洋资源，

as long as market is exchanged, it's all good for growth.

只要市场上发生交换， 一切对增长都好。

To leave our natural environment alone,

让我们的自然环境保持原样、

to sustain it, to protect it,

维持它、保护它，

is apparently worth nothing.

显然是一文不值的。

Now, how and what can we do about this?

那么，我们对此能做什么， 又该怎么做？

Well, I wrote first about it 30 years ago.

我在三十年前就第一次 写过这个话题。

Then in 2008, after the global financial crisis,

然后在 2008 年， 在全球金融危机之后，

President Sarkozy of France

法国总统萨科齐

asked three men who had all won Nobel Prizes in Economics --

请求三位曾荣获 诺贝尔经济学奖的男人，

Sen, Fitoussi and Stiglitz --

森，菲图西和斯蒂格利茨，

to discover what I'd written about

去发现我早在三十年前

30 years ago.

就论述过的东西。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

"Relying on per capita GDP, relying on these growth figures," they said,

他们说：“依靠人均 GDP， 依靠这些增长数字，

"doesn't appear to be the best way to proceed

看上去并不是制定公共政策

to make public policy."

的最佳标准。”

And I totally agree with them.

我完全赞同他们的结论。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

One of the things that you notice about these rules --

关于这些规则，值得注意的是， 它们被修订过——

they are revised; 1968 they were revised, 1993, 2008 --

1968 年，它们被修订过， 1993 年，2008 年——

is that the revisions are mostly done by statisticians,

这些修订多数由统计学家进行，

and the statisticians do know what is wrong with the data,

统计学家们的确知道 数据有什么问题，

but hardly any of the economists ever stop to ask that same question.

但是几乎没有经济学家 曾停下来问同样的问题。

So, in 2019,

于是，在 2019 年，

the GDP is in even worse shape.

GDP 的现状变得更加糟糕。

You see, to measure GDP,

为了测量 GDP，

you have to assume that some kind of production

你不得不假设某种生产

or service delivery or consumption

或服务提供或消费

occurs inside a nation-state,

是发生在一个国家里的，

and you know where that is.

并且你知道这个国家在哪里。

But trillions of dollars are circling the globe,

但来自我们的谷歌、Facebook 和推特账号的点点滴滴

in many part from our Googles, our Facebooks, our Twitters,

构成了在全球周转的数万亿美元，

siphoned through a number of tax shelters,

这些钱通过无数个避税所，

so that when we click on our computer

从而使得我们在电脑上点击鼠标

and go to download some software,

下载某个软件时，

we don't know where it was produced,

我们并不知道它由哪里生产，

and frankly, no one knows where we are as we're consuming it, either.

而且说实在的，也没有人知道 我们是在何处消费它的。

These tax-free havens

这些免税天堂

distort the GDP to such an extent

让 GDP 发生了严重的扭曲，

that about three years ago,

以至于约三年前，

Europe looked askance at Ireland

欧盟斜眼看着爱尔兰，

and said, "We don't think you're reporting correctly,"

说：“我们觉得你没有如实汇报，”

and in the next year, their GDP went up 35 percent.

第二年，他们的 GDP 就增长了 35%。

Now, all that work that you're doing

我们可以测量

when you were at leisure and unproductive,

你在逍遥散漫、无所事事时

we can measure this,

做的所有工作——

and we can measure this in time use surveys.

通过“时间利用”调查。

When we look at the amount of time that's taken

我们研究无偿劳动

in the unpaid sector,

所占去的时间时，

what we find is that in almost every country where I've ever seen the data,

我们发现在几乎每一个 提供了数据的国家中，

it is the single largest sector of the nation's economy.

无偿劳动都是那个国家 经济的最大单一部门。

In the last three years, for example,

比如说，在过去三年内，

the UK statistician has declared

英国统计学家宣称，

that all of that unpaid work is the equivalent of all manufacturing

英国的全部无偿劳动 等价于制造业和

and all retailing in the UK.

零售业的总和。

In Australia,

在澳大利亚的经济中，

the single largest sector of Australia's economy is unpaid childcare,

最大的单一部门 是无偿儿童保育，

and the second-largest sector is all the rest of the unpaid work,

而第二大的部门是 剩余的所有无偿劳动，

before banking and insurance and financial intermediation services

排在占去市场部门最大头的

银行、保险以及金融中介服务之前。

clock in at the largest part of the market sector.

Just last year, the Premier of the Victoria state of Australia

就在去年，澳大利亚 维多利亚州州长

declared that half of that state's GDP

宣布该州 GDP 的一半

was, in fact, the value of all the unpaid work.

事实上等同于 所有无偿劳动的价值。

Now, as a policy maker,

作为政策制定者，

you cannot make good policy

你不可能在国家经济 最大的单一部门

if the single largest sector of your nation's economy

被隐形的情况下

制订出优秀的政策。

is not visible.

You can't presume to know where the needs are.

你不能假定自己知道 大众的需求在哪里。

You can't locate time poverty.

你无法定位时间匮乏的地方。

You can't address the most critical issues of need.

你无法解决最为迫切的需求。

So what can go in the place of GDP?

那么什么指标能够取代 GDP？

Well, GDP has got many other problems, OK?

GDP 还有很多别的问题。

We don't behave in a way that assists GDP.

我们的行为方式并不支持 GDP。

Large numbers of people around the planet

现在全球有很多人

are now using household assets -- their cars, their homes, themselves --

正在使用他们的家庭资产—— 他们的车、房子、他们自身——

for Uber, for Airbnb.

提供优步（Uber）和 爱彼迎（Airbnb）服务。

And no, we're not supposed to use assets from the unpaid sector

不对，我们理应不能 使用无偿劳动部门的资产

to make money in the market sector.

在市场部门赚钱。

This is confusing!

这实在是太混乱了！

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And very difficult to measure.

并且也很难测量。

So economists don't want to know

经济学家们并不想知道

what's wrong with their most important GDP,

他们最重要的 GDP 出了什么问题，

and I think they've got so many problems, they can just move off to a quiet corner

而且我觉得他们的课题那么多， 他们应该乖乖挪到一个安静的角落

and continue to publish that

继续发表那些论文，

and not come anywhere near the rest of us

而不要带着资本

和自然资产的言论

with this talk of capitals

以及其它用来殖民 我们剩余人生的手段

and natural assets

and other ways in which to colonize the rest of our lives.

靠近我们其他人哪怕一步。

I think time use is the most important indicator going forward.

我觉得以后最重要的指标 是时间利用。

Every one of us has exactly the same amount of it.

我们每一个人都有完全等量的时间。

If there are going to be critical issues as we move forward,

如果要说在未来 会有什么至关重要的议题，

we need a solid database,

我们需要一个牢靠的数据库，

because whatever we change away from the GDP,

因为不管我们把 GDP 换成什么，

we're going to be stuck with it for about 50 years,

我们都将和它共处近 50 年，

and we need something that's solid and immutable

于是我们需要某样坚实不变的、

and that everybody understands,

所有人都能理解的东西，

because if I put time use data in front of you,

因为如果我把时间利用数据 摆在你面前，

you'll immediately start nodding.

你会马上开始点头。

You'll immediately start recognizing what it means.

你会马上开始认识到 它意味着什么。

And, honestly,

另外，说实话，

if I put the GDP data in front of you,

如果我把 GDP 数据 摆在你的面前，

a lot of you would prefer to leave for morning tea.

你们很多人大概 宁可离席去喝茶。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

We also need to be looking at the quality of our environment.

我们还需要监控我们的环境质量。

As every year goes past, we get much better

随着时间一年年过去， 我们变得更加善于

at measuring the devastation of it,

衡量它受到的破坏，

of measuring how little we protect anymore.

衡量我们还在保护的东西 变得多么稀少。

And yet, with climate change,

然而，随着气候变化，

we don't all have to be scientists to see, to feel, to know

我们即使不是科学家， 也能看到、感受到、知道

what is happening to our beautiful planet.

我们美丽的星球正在遭受什么。

We need, in this country,

在这个国家里，我们需要

the paramountcy of what we can learn from kaitiakitanga,

能从 kaitiakitanga（守护环境的职责）、 【注：毛利语】

from whanaungatanaga,

从 whanaungatanaga（家族的维系）、 【注：毛利语】

from what Maori, who have been here for centuries, can teach us.

从在这里生活了许多世纪的毛利人 那里学到的至高无上的准则。

When you're in parliament,

当你身在议会，

and you're not in an economist's frame of mind,

并且没有经济学家 的思维框架时，

you make decisions across a range of data.

你会通过各种各样 的数据做出决策。

You look at the trade-offs.

你会进行权衡考量。

You think deeply about implications

你会深深地思考

way beyond whether or not GDP is up or down.

远比GDP 是涨是跌 更加深远的涵义。

Economists want to turn everything into a monetary exchange,

经济学家想把一切， 甚至包括时间利用数据，

even time use data,

变成金钱交换，

so that they can carry on trying to decide

这样他们就能继续试图判断

whether GDP is up or down.

GDP 是涨了还是跌了。

That's not a great way to go.

这并不是很好的前进方式。

And others have said to me,

别人曾经对我说过，

"Marilyn, why don't you just work on a system

“玛丽琳，你为什么不干脆开发一个

that includes all the unpaid work

把所有无偿劳动、

and the pregnancy and the birth and the lactation

怀孕、生子、哺乳

都包括在 GDP 里面的系统呢？”

in the GDP?"

There's a very important moral and ethical answer to that,

对此，我有一个很重要 的伦理道德的回答，

and it is that I do not want the most valuable things on earth,

那就是我并不想让 这世界上最珍贵的东西，

the things I treasure,

那些我珍视的事物，

sitting in an accounting framework that thinks that war is great for growth.

躺在一个认为战争有利于发展 的会计制度里。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声与喝彩）

So from now on,

那么从今以后，

whenever you listen to the news,

每当你听新闻时，

you're not going to go blank when they say GDP.

在他们提到 GDP 时， 你将不再头脑一片空白。

You're going to think,

你将会想到，

"I know what they're talking about, and it's not good."

“我知道他们在说什么， 它并不是什么好东西。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I know that there are alternatives,

我知道有别的替代方法，

and I'm going to spend my time correcting people,

我将花时间纠正人们，

talking to them about this value base

跟他们讲述这个价值基础，

and talking to them about what the alternatives can be,

并且告诉他们有什么替代方式，

because humankind

因为人类

and our planet

与我们的地球

need another way.

需要别的衡量方式。

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声与喝彩）