Michael Archer: How we'll resurrect the gastric brooding frog, the Tasmanian tiger

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Miloš Milosavljević Lektor: Mile Živković

I do want to test this question we're all interested in:

Želim da testiram ovo pitanje koje nas sve zanima:

Does extinction have to be forever?

da li istrebljenje mora da bude večno?

I'm focused on two projects I want to tell you about.

Fokusiran sam na dva projekta o kojima bih želeo da vam pričam.

One is the Thylacine Project.

Jedan je projekat Torbarski vuk.

The other one is the Lazarus Project,

Drugi je projekat Lazar

and that's focused on the gastric-brooding frog.

i on je fokusiran na žabu Rheobatrachus silus.

And it would be a fair question to ask,

I bilo bi dobro pitanje

why have we focused on these two animals?

zašto smo se fokusirali na ove dve životinje?

Well, point number one, each of them represents a unique family of its own.

Prva stvar, svaka od njih

predstavlja jedinstvenu porodicu.

We've lost a whole family.

Izgubili smo celu porodicu.

That's a big chunk of the global genome gone.

To je veliki deo globalnog genoma koji je nestao.

I'd like it back.

Voleo bih da ga vratimo.

The second reason is that we killed these things.

Drugi razlog je taj da smo mi ubili ove životinje.

In the case of the thylacine, regrettably, we shot every one that we saw.

U slučaju torbarskog vuka, nažalost,

ubili smo svakog kog smo videli. Napravili smo pokolj.

We slaughtered them.

In the case of the gastric-brooding frog, we may have "fungicided" it to death.

U slučaju žabe Rheobatrachus silus

možda smo je "pesticidirali" na smrt.

There's a dreadful fungus that's moving through the world

Postoji užasna gljiva koja se kreće svetom,

koja se zove hitrid gljiva

that's called the chytrid fungus,

i napada žabe širom sveta.

and it's nailing frogs all over the world.

We think that's probably what got this frog,

Mislimo da je to ono što je istrebilo ovu žabu

and humans are spreading this fungus.

i ljudi šire ovu gljivu.

And this introduces a very important ethical point,

I to uvodi vrlo važno etičko pitanje

and I think you will have heard this many times

i mislim da ćete čuti ovo mnogo puta

when this topic comes up.

kada se bude govorilo o ovoj temi.

What I think is important

Mislim da je važno

is that, if it's clear that we exterminated these species,

da ako je jasno da smo istrebili ove vrste,

then I think we not only have a moral obligation

onda mislim da imamo ne samo moralnu obavezu

to see what we can do about it,

da vidimo šta možemo da učinimo povodom toga, nego mislim

but I think we've got a moral imperative to try to do something, if we can.

da je i moralni imperativ da uradimo nešto ako možemo.

OK. Let me talk to you about the Lazarus Project.

Ok. Da vam kažem nešto o projektu Lazar.

It's a frog. And you think, frog.

To je žaba. I pomislili ste, žaba.

Yeah, but this was not just any frog.

Da, ali to nije bila bilo koja žaba.

Unlike a normal frog, which lays its eggs in the water

Za razliku od normalne žabe, koja polaže jaja u vodu,

and goes away and wishes its froglets well,

odlazi i poželi dobro svojim žabicama,

this frog swallowed its fertilized eggs,

ova žaba je gutala svoja oplođena jaja,

gutala u stomak gde bi trebalo da ide hrana,

swallowed them into the stomach, where it should be having food,

didn't digest the eggs, and turned its stomach into a uterus.

nije varila jaja

i pretvarala je svoj stomak u matericu.

In the stomach, the eggs went on to develop into tadpoles,

U stomaku jaja su se razvijala u punoglavce

and in the stomach, the tadpoles went on to develop into frogs,

i punoglavci su se razvijali u žabe

and they grew in the stomach

i rasli su u stomaku dok konačno

until eventually the poor old frog was at risk of bursting apart.

jadna žaba ne bi dospela u rizik da eksplodira.

It has a little cough and a hiccup, and out comes sprays of little frogs.

Malo kašlje i štuca i izađu napolje

mlazevi malih žaba.

Now, when biologists saw this, they were agog.

Kad su biolozi videli ovo bili su jako uzbuđeni.

They thought, this is incredible.

Mislili su: ovo je neverovatno.

No animal, let alone a frog, has been known to do this,

Ni za jednu životinju, a kamoli za žabu, nije se znalo da radi ovo,

to change one organ in the body into another.

da pretvori jedan organ u telu u drugi.

And you can imagine the medical world went nuts over this as well.

Možete da pretpostavite

da je i medicinski svet takođe poludeo zbog ovoga.

If we could understand

Kad bismo mogli da shvatimo kako ta žaba postiže

how that frog is managing the way its tummy works,

da joj stomak tako radi, da li ovde postoji informacija

is there information here that we need to understand

koju treba da shvatimo ili bismo mogli korisno da upotrebimo

or could usefully use to help ourselves?

da pomognemo sebi?

Now, I'm not suggesting we want to raise our babies in our stomach,

Ne kažem da želimo da gajimo bebe u svojim stomacima,

but I am suggesting it's possible

ali kažem da bismo možda želeli

we might want to manage gastric secretion in the gut.

da kontrolišemo želudačnu sekreciju u crevima.

And just as everybody got excited about it, bang!

I tek što su se svi zagrejali za to, bum!

It was extinct.

Istrebljena je.

Nazvao sam svog prijatelja, profesora Majka Tajlera

I called up my friend,

Professor Mike Tyler in the University of Adelaide.

na univerzitetu u Adelajdu.

On je bio poslednja osoba koja je imala ovu žabu,

He was the last person who had this frog, a colony of these things, in his lab.

koloniju ovih žaba u svojoj laboratoriji.

And I said, "Mike, by any chance --" This was 30 or 40 years ago.

I rekao sam: "Majk, da slučajno..."

ovo je bilo pre 30 ili 40 godina -

"By any chance had you kept any frozen tissue of this frog?"

"da slučajno nisi sačuvao neko zamrznuto tkivo ove žabe?"

And he thought about it,

I on je razmišljao o tome i otišao do svog zamrzivača,

and he went to his deep freezer, minus 20 degrees centigrade,

na minus 20 stepeni Celzijusa

and he poured through everything in the freezer,

i pretražio je sve u zamrzivaču

i na dnu je bila tegla

and there in the bottom was a jar and it contained tissues of these frogs.

u kojoj su bila tkiva ovih žaba.

This was very exciting,

Ovo je bilo vrlo uzbudljivo, ali nije bilo razloga

but there was no reason why we should expect that this would work,

da očekujemo da ovo funkcioniše

because this tissue had not had any antifreeze put in it,

jer u ovo tkivo nije bilo stavljeno nimalo antifriza,

cryoprotectants, to look after it when it was frozen.

krioprotektora, da ga čuva dok je zamrznuto.

And normally, when water freezes, as you know, it expands,

Obično, kao što znate, kad se voda smrzne ona se širi

and the same thing happens in a cell.

i ista stvar se dešava u ćeliji.

If you freeze tissues, the water expands, damages or bursts the cell walls.

Ako zamrznete tkiva voda se širi

i oštećuje ili probija ćelijske zidove.

Pogledali smo ova tkiva pod mikroskopom.

Well, we looked at the tissue under the microscope.

It actually didn't look bad. The cell walls looked intact.

I zapravo nisu izgledala tako loše. Ćelijski zidovi su izgledali netaknuti.

So we thought, let's give it a go.

Pa smo pomislili: hajde da probamo.

What we did is something called somatic cell nuclear transplantation.

Uradili smo nešto što se zove

transplantacija jedra somatske ćelije.

We took the eggs of a related species, a living frog,

Uzeli smo jaja srodne vrste, žive žabe

and we inactivated the nucleus of the egg.

i deaktivirali jedro jaja.

We used ultraviolet radiation to do that.

Koristili smo ultraljubičasto zračenje za to.

And then we took the dead nucleus from the dead tissue of the extinct frog

I onda smo uzeli mrtvo jedro iz mrtvog tkiva

istrebljene žabe i ubacili ova jedra u to jaje.

and we inserted those nuclei into that egg.

Now, by rights, this is kind of like a cloning project,

Ovo izgleda kao neki projekat kloniranja,

kao onaj kojim je proizvedena Doli, ali u stvari je vrlo različit

like what produced Dolly,

but it's actually very different,

because Dolly was live sheep into live sheep cells.

jer je Doli bila živa ovca u živim ćelijama ovce.

That was a miracle, but it was workable.

To je bilo čudo, ali je bilo izvodljivo.

Ono što mi pokušavamo da uradimo je da uzmemo mrtvo jedro iz istrebljene vrste

What we're trying to do is take a dead nucleus from an extinct species

and put it into a completely different species and expect that to work.

i stavimo ga u potpuno drugu vrstu i očekujemo da to funkcioniše.

Well, we had no real reason to expect it would,

U stvari, nemamo pravog razloga da očekujemo da hoće

and we tried hundreds and hundreds of these.

i probali smo na stotine puta.

And just last February, the last time we did these trials,

I baš u februaru, poslednji put kad smo radili ove oglede,

I saw a miracle starting to happen.

video sam da čudo počinje da se dešava.

Otkrili smo da većina ovih jaja nije funkcionisala,

What we found was most of these eggs didn't work,

but then suddenly, one of them began to divide.

ali onda iznenada jedno od njih je počelo da se deli.

That was so exciting.

To je bilo tako uzbudljivo. I onda se jaje podelilo ponovo.

And then the egg divided again. And then again.

I ponovo. I uskoro smo imali

And pretty soon, we had early-stage embryos

embrione u ranom stadijumu formirane od stotina ćelija.

with hundreds of cells forming those.

We even DNA-tested some of these cells,

Čak smo testirali i DNK nekih od ovih ćelija

i DNK istrebljene žabe je u ovim ćelijama.

and the DNA of the extinct frog is in those cells.

So we're very excited. This is not a tadpole. It's not a frog.

Tako da smo vrlo uzbuđeni. Ovo nije punoglavac.

Nije ni žaba. Ali je veliki napredak na putu

But it's a long way along the journey

to producing, or bringing back, an extinct species.

ka proizvodnji ili vraćanju istrebljene vrste.

And this is news.

I ovo je novost. Nismo ovo ranije javno objavili.

We haven't announced this publicly before.

Uzbuđeni smo. Uspeli smo da pređemo ovu tačku.

We're excited.

We've got to get past this point.

We now want this ball of cells to start to gastrulate,

Sada hoćemo da ova lopta ćelija počne da gastrulira,

to turn in so that it will produce the other tissues.

da se savije tako da proizvede druga tkiva.

It'll go on and produce a tadpole and then a frog.

Nastaviće i proizvešće punoglavca i onda žabu.

Watch this space.

Pratite ovo. Mislim da ćemo učiniti

I think we're going to have this frog hopping

da se ova žaba vrati ponovo u svet.

glad to be back in the world again.

Hvala vam. (Aplauz)

(Applause)

Thank you.

(Applause)

We haven't done it yet, but keep the applause ready.

Nismo još to uradili, ali spremite svoje aplauze.

Drugi projekat o kome želim da vam pričam je projekat Torbarski vuk.

The second project I want to talk to you about is the Thylacine Project.

The thylacine looks a bit, to most people, like a dog,

Torbarski vuk većini ljudi liči malo na psa

or maybe like a tiger, because it has stripes.

ili možda na tigra jer ima pruge.

Ali nije u srodstvu ni sa jednim.

But it's not related to any of those. It's a marsupial.

On je torbar.

It raised its young in a pouch, like a koala or a kangaroo would do,

Podizao je mlade u torbi kao koala ili kengur

i ima dugu istoriju, dugu, fascinantnu istoriju

and it has a long history, a long, fascinating history,

that goes back 25 million years.

koja ide 25 miliona godina unazad.

Ali je to isto tako i tragična istorija.

But it's also a tragic history.

The first one that we see occurs in the ancient rain forests of Australia

Prvi, koga vidimo, se pojavljuje u drevnim prašumama Australije

pre oko 25 milona godina

about 25 million years ago,

i Društvo Nacionalne geografije nam pomaže

and the National Geographic Society

is helping us to explore these fossil deposits.

da istražimo ove naslage fosila. Ovo je Riversli.

This is Riversleigh.

In those fossil rocks are some amazing animals.

U tim fosilnim stenama su neke neverovatne životinje.

We found marsupial lions.

Pronašli smo torbarske lavove.

We found carnivorous kangaroos.

Pronašli smo kengure mesoždere.

It's not what you usually think about as a kangaroo,

To nije onaj kengur kakvim ga obično zamišljate

but these are meat-eating kangaroos.

već su to kenguri koji jedu meso.

We found the biggest bird in the world,

Pronašli smo najveću pticu na svetu,

bigger than that thing that was in Madagascar,

veću od one koja je bila na Madagaskaru i ova je takođe bila mesožder.

and it too was a flesh eater.

It was a giant, weird duck.

To je bila džinovska, čudna patka.

And crocodiles were not behaving at that time either.

Ni krokodili se nisu isto ponašali u to vreme.

You think of crocodiles as doing their ugly thing,

Zamišljate krokodile kako rade svoje gadne stvari

sitting in a pool of water.

dok sede u barama.

These crocodiles were actually out on the land

Ovi krokodili su u stvari bili na kopnu

and they were even climbing trees and jumping on prey on the ground.

i čak su se penjali na drveće i skakali na plen na zemlji.

We had, in Australia, drop crocs. They really do exist.

U Australiji smo imali "bacajuće krokodile".

Oni stvarno postoje.

(Laughter)

But what they were dropping on was not only other weird animals

Ali oni se nisu bacali samo

na druge čudne životinje već takođe na torbarske vukove.

but also thylacines.

There were five different kinds of thylacines in those ancient forests,

Bilo je pet različitih vrsta torbarskih vukova u ovim drevnim šumama

i varirali su od ogromnih, preko onih srednje veličine

and they ranged from great big ones to middle-sized ones

to one that was about the size of a chihuahua.

do onih koji su bili otprilike veličine čivave.

Paris Hilton would have been able

Paris Hilton bi mogla da nosi

jednog od njih u maloj tašni

to carry one of these things around in a little handbag,

until a drop croc landed on her.

dok "bacajući krokodil" ne padne na nju.

At any rate, it was a fascinating place,

U svakom pogledu to je bilo fascinantno mesto,

but unfortunately, Australia didn't stay this way.

ali na žalost, Australija nije ostala ovakva.

Climate change has affected the world for a long period of time,

Klimatske promene su uticale na svet u dugom vremenskom periodu

and gradually, the forests disappeared, the country began to dry out,

i postepeno, šume su nestale,

zemlja je počela da se suši

and the number of kinds of thylacines began to decline,

i broj vrsta torbarskih vukova je počeo da opada,

until by five million years ago,

sve do pre pet miliona godina, samo je jedna ostala.

only one left.

By 10,000 years ago, they had disappeared from New Guinea,

Pre 10.000 godina nestali su

sa Nove Gvineje i nažalost,

and unfortunately, by 4,000 years ago, somebodies, we don't know who this was,

pre 4.000 godina, neko je,

ne znamo ko je to bio, uveo dingoe -

introduced dingoes -- this is a very archaic kind of a dog --

to je vrlo arhaična vrsta psa - u Australiju.

into Australia.

Kao što možete da vidite, dingo je vrlo sličan

And as you can see,

dingoes are very similar in their body form to thylacines.

po obliku tela torbarskom vuku.

That similarity meant they probably competed.

Ta sličnost znači da su se verovatno takmičili.

They were eating the same kinds of foods.

Jeli su istu vrstu hrane.

Čak je moguće da su Aboridžini čuvali

It's even possible that aborigines were keeping some of these dingoes as pets,

neke od ovih dingoa kao kućne ljubimce

and therefore they may have had an advantage in the battle for survival.

i zbog toga su možda imali prednost u borbi za preživljavanje.

All we know is, soon after the dingoes were brought in,

Sve što znamo je da su ubrzo posle dovođenja dinga

thylacines were extinct in the Australian mainland,

torbarski vukovi istrebljeni na australijskom kopnu

and after that they only survived in Tasmania.

i posle toga su samo preživeli na Tasmaniji.

Then, unfortunately,

Sledeći tužni deo priče o torbarskom vuku je taj

the next sad part of the thylacine story is that Europeans arrived in 1788,

da su 1788. stigli Evropljani i doneli

and they brought with them the things they valued,

sa sobom stvari koje su im bile vredne, uključujući i ovcu.

and that included sheep.

Videli su torbarskog vuka na Tasmaniji

They took one look at the thylacine in Tasmania,

and they thought, hang on, this is not going to work.

i pomislili: čekaj, ovo neće ići.

That guy is going to eat all our sheep.

Ovaj će da pojede sve naše ovce.

That was not what happened, actually.

U stvari, to se nije dogodilo.

Divlji psi su pojeli nekoliko ovaca, a torbarski vukovi su lažno optuženi.

Wild dogs did eat a few of the sheep, but the thylacine got a bad rap.

But immediately, the government said, that's it, let's get rid of them,

Odmah zatim, vlada je rekla:

hajde da ih se rešimo i platili su ljude

and they paid people to slaughter every one that they saw.

da ubiju svakog kog sretnu.

By the early 1930s,

Do ranih 1930-ih, 3.000 do 4.000 torbarskih vukova je ubijeno.

3,000 to 4,000 thylacines had been murdered.

It was a disaster, and they were about to hit the wall.

To je bila katastrofa

i bili su blizu da dostignu vrhunac.

Pogledajte ovaj snimak.

Have a look at this bit of film footage.

It makes me very sad because, while it's a fascinating animal,

Veoma me rastužuje jer je to fascinantna životinja

and it's amazing to think that we had the technology to film it

i izgleda neverovatno da smo imali tehnologiju da to snimimo

before it actually plunged off that cliff of extinction,

pre nego što je skočila u ponor istrebljenja

we didn't, unfortunately, at this same time,

i nismo u tom momentu, nažalost, imali

have a molecule of concern about the welfare for this species.

ni molekul brige za dobrobit ove vrste.

These are photos of the last surviving thylacine, Benjamin,

Ovo su fotografije poslednjeg preživelog torbarskog vuka, Bendžamina,

who was in the Beaumaris Zoo in Hobart.

koji je bilo u zoološkom vrtu Bomaris u Hobartu.

To add insult to injury,

Da situacija bude još gora, pošto je cela vrsta skoro počišćena,

having swept this species nearly off the table,

kad je ova životinja uginula zbog nebrige

this animal, when it died of neglect --

The keepers didn't let it into the hutch on a cold night in Hobart.

čuvari je nisu pustili u kavez na hladno veče u Hobartu.

Uginula je od izlaganja nepovoljnim uslovima

It died of exposure, and in the morning, when they found the body of Benjamin,

i ujutru, kad su našli Bendžaminovo telo,

they still cared so little for this animal that they threw the body in the dump.

i dalje su tako malo marili za ovu životinju

da su bacili telo na đubrište.

Does it have to stay this way?

Da li mora da ostane ovako?

In 1990, I was in the Australian Museum.

1990. bio sam u Australijskom muzeju.

I was fascinated by thylacines.

Bio sam fasciniran torbarskim vukovima. Oduvek sam opsednut ovim životinjama.

I've always been obsessed with these animals.

I proučavao sam lobanje pokušavajući da shvatim

And I was studying skulls,

trying to figure out their relationships to other sorts of animals,

njihovu vezu sa drugim vrstama životinja

and I saw this jar,

i video sam ovu teglu i ovde, u tegli

and here, in the jar, was a little girl thylacine pup,

je bila mala štenica torbarskog vuka možda šest meseci stara.

perhaps six months old.

The guy who had found it and killed the mother

Čovek koji je našao i ubio majku,

konzervirao je štene u alkoholu.

had pickled the pup, and they pickled it in alcohol.

I'm a paleontologist, but I still knew alcohol was a DNA preservative.

Ja sam paleontolog ali znam da je alkohol DNK prezervativ.

But this was 1990, and I asked my geneticist friends,

Ali ovo je bilo 1990. i pitao sam moje prijatelje genetičare

couldn't we think about going into this pup

da li bismo mogli da razmišljamo o tome da otvorimo ovo štene

and extracting DNA, if it's there,

i izdvojimo DNK ako je tamo

and then somewhere down the line in the future,

i onda ćemo u nekom momentu u budućnosti

iskoristiti ovu DNK da vratimo torbarskog vuka?

we'll use this DNA to bring the thylacine back?

The geneticists laughed. But this was six years before Dolly.

Genetičari su se smejali. Ali to je bilo šest godina pre Doli.

Cloning was science fiction.

Kloniranje je bilo naučna fantastika. Nije se desilo.

It had not happened.

But then suddenly cloning did happen.

Ali iznenada kloniranje se desilo.

And I thought, when I became director of the Australian Museum,

I pomislio sam, kad postanem direktor

Australijskog muzeja, probaću ovo da uradim.

I'm going to give this a go.

I put a team together.

Sastavio sam tim.

We went into that pup to see what was in it,

Otvorili smo štene da vidimo šta ima unutra

and we did find thylacine DNA.

i našli smo DNK torbarskog vuka. Bio je to "eureka momenat".

It was a eureka moment. We were very excited.

Bili smo vrlo uzbuđeni.

Unfortunately, we also found a lot of human DNA.

Nažalost, našli smo takođe puno ljudskih DNK.

Every old curator who'd been in that museum

Svaki stari kustos koji je bio u tom muzeju

had seen this wonderful specimen,

video je ovaj divan uzorak,

stavio ruku u teglu, izvadio ga i pomislio:

put their hand in the jar, pulled it out and thought,

"Wow, look at that," plop, dropped it back in the jar,

"Oh, vidi ovo", buć, spustio ga nazad u teglu

kontaminirajući ovaj uzorak.

contaminating this specimen.

And that was a worry.

I to je bilo zabrinjavajuće. Ako je ovde cilj bio da izvadimo DNK

If the goal here was to get the DNA out

and use the DNA down the track to try to bring a thylacine back,

i iskoristimo je kasnije da vratimo torbarskog vuka,

onda ono što nismo želeli kad je informacija

what we didn't want happening

when the information was shoved into the machine

ubačena u mašinu i točak okrenut

and the wheel turned around and the lights flashed,

i svetla bljesnula, je to da smežurani stari

was to have a wizened old horrible curator pop out the other end of the machine.

grozni kustos izleti sa druge strane mašine.

It would've kept the curator very happy, but it wasn't going to keep us happy.

To bi veoma usrećilo kustosa

ali ne bi usrećilo nas.

Tako da smo se vratili ovim uzorcima i počeli da kopamo

So we went back to these specimens and we started digging around,

and particularly, we looked into the teeth of skulls,

i naročito smo tražili u zubima u lobanji,

hard parts where humans had not been able to get their fingers,

čvrstim delovima gde ljudi nisu mogli da stave svoje prste

and we found much better quality DNA.

i našli smo mnogo kvalitetniju DNK.

Našli smo mitohondrijske gene jedra. Tamo su.

We found nuclear mitochondrial genes.

It's there. So we got it.

I dobili smo ih.

OK. What could we do with this stuff?

Ok. Šta bismo mogli da uradimo sa ovim?

Well, George Church, in his book, "Regenesis,"

Džordž Čerč je u svojoj knjizi "Ponovno rođenje"

has mentioned many of the techniques that are rapidly advancing

pomenuo mnoge tehnike za rad sa fragmentisanom DNK

to work with fragmented DNA.

koje brzo napreduju.

We would hope that we'll be able to get that DNA back into a viable form,

Nadali bismo se da ćemo moći da vratimo tu DNK

u održivom obliku i onda, kao što smo uradili sa projektom Lazar,

and then, much like we've done with the Lazarus Project,

get that stuff into an egg of a host species.

stavimo to u jaje domaćinske vrste.

It has to be a different species. What could it be?

To mora da bude druga vrsta.

Šta bi to moglo da bude? Može li da bude tasmanijski đavo?

Why couldn't it be a Tasmanian devil?

They're related, distantly, to thylacines.

Oni su u daljem srodstvu sa torbarskim vukovima.

And then the Tasmanian devil is going to pop a thylacine out the south end.

I onda će tasmanijski đavo

roditi torbarskog vuka.

Critics of this project say, hang on.

Kritičari ovog projekta kažu: čekajte.

Thylacine, Tasmanian devil? That's going to hurt.

Torbarski vuk, tasmanijski đavo? To će boleti.

No, it's not. These are marsupials.

Ne, neće. Oni su torbari.

They give birth to babies that are the size of a jelly bean.

Oni rađaju bebe veličine žele bombone.

Taj tasmanijski đavo čak neće ni znati da se okotio.

That Tasmanian devil's not even going to know it gave birth.

It is, shortly, going to think

Pomisliće, ukratko, da je to najružnija

it's got the ugliest Tasmanian devil baby in the world,

beba tasmanijskog đavola na svetu,

pa će mu možda biti potrebna pomoć u daljem odgajanju.

so maybe it'll need some help to keep it going.

Andrew Pask and his colleagues have demonstrated

Endru Pask i njegove kolege su pokazali

this might not be a waste of time.

da ovo možda neće biti protraćeno vreme.

And it's sort of in the future, we haven't got there yet,

i to je ono kako bismo u budućnosti, gde još nismo stigli,

but it's the kind of thing we want to think about.

ali to je ono kako želimo da razmišljamo.

They took some of this same pickled thylacine DNA

Oni su uzeli malo od ove iste konzervirane DNK torbarskog vuka

and they spliced it into a mouse genome,

i sastavili je u genom miša,

but they put a tag on it

ali su je obeležili tako da će se bilo šta

so that anything that this thylacine DNA produced

što je ova DNK torbarskog vuka proizvela

pojaviti u plavozelenoj boji kod bebe miša.

would appear blue-green in the mouse baby.

In other words, if thylacine tissues were being produced by the thylacine DNA,

Drugim rečima, ako su tkiva torbarskog vuka proizvedena

od DNK torbarskog vuka, to će moći da se prepozna.

it would be able to be recognized.

Kad je beba izašla bila je puna plavozelenih tkiva.

When the baby popped up, it was filled with blue-green tissues.

I to nam govori da, ako možemo da ponovo sastavimo taj genom,

And that tells us if we can get that genome back together,

get it into a live cell,

ubacimo ga u živu ćeliju, on će proizvesti tkiva torbarskog vuka.

it's going to produce thylacine stuff.

Is this a risk?

Da li je to rizik?

You've taken the bits of one animal

Uzeli ste malo od jedne životinje

and you've mixed them into the cell of a different kind of an animal.

i umešali to u ćeliju druge vrste životinje.

Da li ćemo dobiti Frankenštajna?

Are we going to get a Frankenstein? Some kind of weird hybrid chimera?

Neku vrstu hibridne himere?

And the answer is no.

I odgovor je: ne.

If the only nuclear DNA that goes into this hybrid cell is thylacine DNA,

Ako je DNK jedra koja ide u ovu hibridnu ćeliju,

DNK torbarskog vuka, to je onda jedino što će ispasti

that's the only thing that can pop out the other end of the devil.

sa donje strane đavola.

OK, if we can do this, could we put it back?

Ako možemo da uradimo ovo, možemo li da ga vratimo u divljinu?

This is a key question for everybody.

Ovo je ključno pitanje za sve.

Does it have to stay in a laboratory, or could we put it back where it belongs?

Da li mora da ostane u laboratoriji

ili ga možemo vratiti tamo gde pripada?

Could we put it back in the throne of the king of beasts in Tasmania,

Možemo li ga vratiti na tron kralja zveri

na Tasmaniji, gde pripada, obnoviti taj ekosistem?

restore that ecosystem?

Or has Tasmania changed so much that that's no longer possible?

Ili se Tasmanija promenila toliko

da to više nije moguće?

Bio sam na Tasmaniji u mnogim delovima

I've been to Tasmania.

I've been to many of the areas where the thylacines were common.

gde su torbarski vukovi bili uobičajeni.

I've even spoken to people, like Peter Carter here,

Čak sam i govorio sa ljudima, kao sa Piterom Karterom ovde,

who when I spoke to him, was 90 years old,

koji je imao 90 godina kada sam razgovarao sa njim,

but in 1926, this man and his father and his brother

ali 1926. ovaj čovek i njegov otac i brat hvatali su torbarske vukove.

caught thylacines.

They trapped them.

Hvatali su ih zamkama.

And when I spoke to this man, I was looking in his eyes and thinking,

I kada sam govorio sa ovim čovekom

gledao sam u njegove oči i mislio:

"Behind those eyes is a brain that has memories of what thylacines feel like,

iza tih očiju je mozak

koji ima sećanja na to kako su torbarski vukovi izgledali,

what they smelled like, what they sounded like."

kako su mirisali, kako su zvučali.

He led them around on a rope.

Vodio ih je okolo na konopcu.

He has personal experiences

On ima lična iskustva

that I would give my left leg to have in my head.

za koja bih dao levu nogu da ih imam u svojoj glavi.

Svi bismo voleli da nam se tako nešto desilo.

We'd all love to have this sort of thing happen.

Anyway, I asked Peter, by any chance,

Pitao sam Pitera da li bi možda mogao

could he take us back to where he caught those thylacines.

da nas odvede tamo gde je hvatao ove torbarske vukove.

My interest was in whether the environment had changed.

Interesovalo me je da li se okruženje izmenilo.

Napregao se da se seti. Mislim, to je bilo skoro 80 godina pre

He thought hard. It was nearly 80 years before this that he'd been at this hut.

njegovog boravka u ovoj kolibi.

At any rate, he led us down this bush track,

U svakom slučaju, poveo nas je niz stazu

and there, right where he remembered,

i tačno tamo gde se sećao bila je koliba

was the hut,

and tears came into his eyes.

i oči su mu zasuzile.

He looked at the hut. We went inside.

Pogledao je kolibu. Ušli smo unutra.

There were the wooden boards on the sides of the hut

Drvene ploče su bile na zidovima kolibe

gde su on, njegov otac i njegov brat spavali noću.

where he and his father and his brother had slept at night.

And he told me, as it all was flooding back in memories.

I rekao mi je, kako mu je sve naviralo u sećanje.

Rekao je: "Sećam se torbarskih vukova koji su kružili oko kolibe

He said, "I remember the thylacines going around the hut

pitajući se šta je unutra" i rekao je

wondering what was inside,"

and he said they made sounds like "Yip! Yip! Yip!"

da su pravili zvuke kao: "Jip! Jip! Jip!"

Sve ovo su delovi njegovog života i onoga čega se seća.

All of these are parts of his life and what he remembers.

I moje ključno pitanje Piteru je bilo: da li se promenilo?

And the key question for me was to ask Peter, has it changed?

And he said no.

I rekao je da nije.

Šume na južnoj plaži su okruživale njegovu kolibu

The southern beech forests surrounded his hut

just like it was when he was there in 1926.

baš kao i kad je on bio tamo 1926.

The grasslands were sweeping away.

Pašnjaci su se prostirali.

That's classic thylacine habitat.

To je klasično stanište torbarskog vuka.

And the animals in those areas were the same that were there

I životinje u ovim oblastima su bile iste

kao i u vreme kad je torbarski vuk bio tamo.

when the thylacine was around.

Da li bismo onda mogli da ga vratimo tamo? Da.

So could we put it back? Yes.

Is that all we would do? And this is an interesting question.

Je li to sve što bismo uradili? I ovo je interesantno pitanje.

Ponekad možda možete da ga vratite,

Sometimes you might be able to put it back,

but is that the safest way to make sure it never goes extinct again?

ali da li je to najsigurniji način da obezbedite

da više nikada ne dođe do istrebljenja, i ja mislim da nije.

And I don't think so.

I think gradually, as we see species all around the world,

Mislim da je postepeno, kako gledamo vrste širom sveta,

it's kind of a mantra that wildlife is increasingly not safe in the wild.

postala neka vrsta mantre da je u porastu nesigurnost

divljeg sveta u divljini.

We'd love to think it is, but we know it isn't.

Volimo da mislimo da nije, ali znamo da jeste.

We need other parallel strategies coming online.

Trebaju nam druge paralelne strategije.

And this one interests me.

I ovo je jedna koja me zanima.

Some of the thylacines that were being turned in to zoos,

Neki od torbarskih vukova koje smo stavili u zoo vrtove

sanctuaries, even at the museums,

u utočišta, čak i u muzeje,

had collar marks on the neck.

imali su otiske od ogrlice na vratu.

They were being kept as pets,

Čuvali su ih kao ljubimce

and we know a lot of bush tales and memories

i znamo puno priča i sećanja iz šume

of people who had them as pets,

ljudi koji su ih držali kao ljubimce

and they say they were wonderful, friendly.

i oni kažu da su bili divni, druželjubivi.

This particular one

Ovaj je došao iz šume

came in out of the forest to lick this boy

da liže ovog dečaka i sklupčao se pored kamina da spava.

and curled up around the fireplace to go to sleep.

A wild animal.

Divlja životinja.

And I'd like to ask the question. We need to think about this.

I želeo bih da postavim pitanje,

svi treba da mislimo o ovome.

If it had not been illegal to keep these thylacines as pets then,

Da nije bilo zabranjeno držati ove torbarske vukove kao ljubimce,

da li bi onda oni bili istrebljeni?

would the thylacine be extinct now?

And I'm positive it wouldn't.

Siguran sam da ne bi.

We need to think about this in today's world.

Treba da mislimo o ovome u današnjem svetu.

Could it be that getting animals close to us so that we value them,

Da li bi približavanjem životinja sebi

tako da ih onda vrednujemo, možda ukinuli njihovo istrebljavanje?

maybe they won't go extinct?

And this is such a critical issue for us

To je tako važna tema za nas

because if we don't do that,

jer ako to ne uradimo, gledaćemo

we're going to watch more of these animals plunge off the precipice.

više ovih životinja kako padaju u ponor istrebljenja.

As far as I'm concerned,

Što se mene tiče, zbog ovoga

this is why we're trying to do these kinds of de-extinction projects.

pokušavamo da radimo ove projekte vraćanja vrsta u život.

We are trying to restore that balance of nature

Pokušavamo da obnovimo onu ravnotežu u prirodi

that we have upset.

koju smo mi sami poremetili.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Aplauz)

(Applause)