Stewart Brand: The dawn of de-extinction. Are you ready?

262,336 views ・ 2013-03-13

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Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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Now, extinction is a different kind of death.
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It's bigger.
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We didn't really realize that until 1914,
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when the last passenger pigeon, a female named Martha,
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died at the Cincinnati zoo.
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This had been the most abundant bird in the world
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that'd been in North America for six million years.
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Suddenly it wasn't here at all.
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Flocks that were a mile wide and 400 miles long
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used to darken the sun.
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Aldo Leopold said this was a biological storm,
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a feathered tempest.
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And indeed it was a keystone species
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that enriched the entire eastern deciduous forest,
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from the Mississippi to the Atlantic,
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from Canada down to the Gulf.
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But it went from five billion birds to zero in just a couple decades.
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What happened?
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Well, commercial hunting happened.
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These birds were hunted for meat that was sold by the ton,
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and it was easy to do because when those big flocks
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came down to the ground, they were so dense
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that hundreds of hunters and netters could show up
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and slaughter them by the tens of thousands.
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It was the cheapest source of protein in America.
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By the end of the century, there was nothing left
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but these beautiful skins in museum specimen drawers.
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There's an upside to the story.
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This made people realize that the same thing
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was about to happen to the American bison,
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and so these birds saved the buffalos.
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But a lot of other animals weren't saved.
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The Carolina parakeet was a parrot that lit up backyards everywhere.
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It was hunted to death for its feathers.
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There was a bird that people liked on the East Coast called the heath hen.
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It was loved. They tried to protect it. It died anyway.
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A local newspaper spelled out, "There is no survivor,
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there is no future, there is no life to be recreated in this form ever again."
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There's a sense of deep tragedy that goes with these things,
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and it happened to lots of birds that people loved.
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It happened to lots of mammals.
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Another keystone species is a famous animal
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called the European aurochs.
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There was sort of a movie made about it recently.
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And the aurochs was like the bison.
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This was an animal that basically kept the forest
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mixed with grasslands across the entire Europe and Asian continent,
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from Spain to Korea.
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The documentation of this animal goes back
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to the Lascaux cave paintings.
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The extinctions still go on.
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There's an ibex in Spain called the bucardo.
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It went extinct in 2000.
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There was a marvelous animal, a marsupial wolf
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called the thylacine in Tasmania, south of Australia,
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called the Tasmanian tiger.
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It was hunted until there were just a few left to die in zoos.
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A little bit of film was shot.
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Sorrow, anger, mourning.
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Don't mourn. Organize.
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What if you could find out that, using the DNA in museum specimens,
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fossils maybe up to 200,000 years old
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could be used to bring species back,
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what would you do? Where would you start?
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Well, you'd start by finding out if the biotech is really there.
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I started with my wife, Ryan Phelan,
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who ran a biotech business called DNA Direct,
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and through her, one of her colleagues, George Church,
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one of the leading genetic engineers
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who turned out to be also obsessed with passenger pigeons
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and a lot of confidence
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that methodologies he was working on
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might actually do the deed.
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So he and Ryan organized and hosted a meeting
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at the Wyss Institute in Harvard bringing together
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specialists on passenger pigeons, conservation ornithologists, bioethicists,
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and fortunately passenger pigeon DNA had already been sequenced
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by a molecular biologist named Beth Shapiro.
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All she needed from those specimens at the Smithsonian
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was a little bit of toe pad tissue,
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because down in there is what is called ancient DNA.
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It's DNA which is pretty badly fragmented,
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but with good techniques now, you can basically reassemble the whole genome.
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Then the question is, can you reassemble,
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with that genome, the whole bird?
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George Church thinks you can.
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So in his book, "Regenesis," which I recommend,
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he has a chapter on the science of bringing back extinct species,
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and he has a machine called
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the Multiplex Automated Genome Engineering machine.
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It's kind of like an evolution machine.
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You try combinations of genes that you write
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at the cell level and then in organs on a chip,
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and the ones that win, that you can then put
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into a living organism. It'll work.
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The precision of this, one of George's famous unreadable slides,
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nevertheless points out that there's a level of precision here
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right down to the individual base pair.
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The passenger pigeon has 1.3 billion base pairs in its genome.
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So what you're getting is the capability now
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of replacing one gene with another variation of that gene.
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It's called an allele.
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Well that's what happens in normal hybridization anyway.
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So this is a form of synthetic hybridization of the genome
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of an extinct species
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with the genome of its closest living relative.
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Now along the way, George points out that
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his technology, the technology of synthetic biology,
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is currently accelerating at four times the rate of Moore's Law.
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It's been doing that since 2005, and it's likely to continue.
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Okay, the closest living relative of the passenger pigeon
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is the band-tailed pigeon. They're abundant. There's some around here.
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Genetically, the band-tailed pigeon already is
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mostly living passenger pigeon.
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There's just some bits that are band-tailed pigeon.
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If you replace those bits with passenger pigeon bits,
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you've got the extinct bird back, cooing at you.
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Now, there's work to do.
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You have to figure out exactly what genes matter.
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So there's genes for the short tail in the band-tailed pigeon,
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genes for the long tail in the passenger pigeon,
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and so on with the red eye, peach-colored breast, flocking, and so on.
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Add them all up and the result won't be perfect.
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But it should be be perfect enough,
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because nature doesn't do perfect either.
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So this meeting in Boston led to three things.
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First off, Ryan and I decided to create a nonprofit
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called Revive and Restore that would push de-extinction generally
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and try to have it go in a responsible way,
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and we would push ahead with the passenger pigeon.
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Another direct result was a young grad student named Ben Novak,
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who had been obsessed with passenger pigeons since he was 14
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and had also learned how to work with ancient DNA,
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himself sequenced the passenger pigeon,
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using money from his family and friends.
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We hired him full-time.
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Now, this photograph I took of him last year at the Smithsonian,
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he's looking down at Martha,
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the last passenger pigeon alive.
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So if he's successful, she won't be the last.
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The third result of the Boston meeting was the realization
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that there are scientists all over the world
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working on various forms of de-extinction,
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but they'd never met each other.
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And National Geographic got interested
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because National Geographic has the theory that
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the last century, discovery was basically finding things,
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and in this century, discovery is basically making things.
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De-extinction falls in that category.
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So they hosted and funded this meeting. And 35 scientists,
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they were conservation biologists and molecular biologists,
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basically meeting to see if they had work to do together.
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Some of these conservation biologists are pretty radical.
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There's three of them who are not just re-creating ancient species,
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they're recreating extinct ecosystems
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in northern Siberia, in the Netherlands, and in Hawaii.
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Henri, from the Netherlands,
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with a Dutch last name I won't try to pronounce,
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is working on the aurochs.
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The aurochs is the ancestor of all domestic cattle,
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and so basically its genome is alive, it's just unevenly distributed.
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So what they're doing is working with seven breeds
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of primitive, hardy-looking cattle like that Maremmana primitivo on the top there
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to rebuild, over time, with selective back-breeding,
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the aurochs.
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Now, re-wilding is moving faster in Korea
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than it is in America,
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and so the plan is, with these re-wilded areas all over Europe,
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they will introduce the aurochs to do its old job,
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its old ecological role,
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of clearing the somewhat barren, closed-canopy forest
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so that it has these biodiverse meadows in it.
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Another amazing story
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came from Alberto Fernández-Arias.
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Alberto worked with the bucardo in Spain.
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The last bucardo was a female named Celia
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who was still alive, but then they captured her,
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they got a little bit of tissue from her ear,
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they cryopreserved it in liquid nitrogen,
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released her back into the wild,
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but a few months later, she was found dead under a fallen tree.
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They took the DNA from that ear,
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they planted it as a cloned egg in a goat,
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the pregnancy came to term,
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and a live baby bucardo was born.
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It was the first de-extinction in history.
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(Applause)
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It was short-lived.
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Sometimes interspecies clones have respiration problems.
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This one had a malformed lung and died after 10 minutes,
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but Alberto was confident that
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cloning has moved along well since then,
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and this will move ahead, and eventually
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there will be a population of bucardos
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back in the mountains in northern Spain.
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Cryopreservation pioneer of great depth is Oliver Ryder.
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At the San Diego zoo, his frozen zoo
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has collected the tissues from over 1,000 species
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over the last 35 years.
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Now, when it's frozen that deep,
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minus 196 degrees Celsius,
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the cells are intact and the DNA is intact.
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They're basically viable cells,
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so someone like Bob Lanza at Advanced Cell Technology
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took some of that tissue from an endangered animal
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called the Javan banteng, put it in a cow,
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the cow went to term, and what was born
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was a live, healthy baby Javan banteng,
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who thrived and is still alive.
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The most exciting thing for Bob Lanza
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is the ability now to take any kind of cell
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with induced pluripotent stem cells
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and turn it into germ cells, like sperm and eggs.
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So now we go to Mike McGrew
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who is a scientist at Roslin Institute in Scotland,
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and Mike's doing miracles with birds.
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So he'll take, say, falcon skin cells, fibroblast,
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turn it into induced pluripotent stem cells.
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Since it's so pluripotent, it can become germ plasm.
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He then has a way to put the germ plasm
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into the embryo of a chicken egg
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so that that chicken will have, basically,
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the gonads of a falcon.
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You get a male and a female each of those,
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and out of them comes falcons.
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(Laughter)
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Real falcons out of slightly doctored chickens.
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Ben Novak was the youngest scientist at the meeting.
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He showed how all of this can be put together.
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The sequence of events: he'll put together the genomes
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of the band-tailed pigeon and the passenger pigeon,
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he'll take the techniques of George Church
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and get passenger pigeon DNA,
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the techniques of Robert Lanza and Michael McGrew,
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get that DNA into chicken gonads,
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and out of the chicken gonads get passenger pigeon eggs, squabs,
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and now you're getting a population of passenger pigeons.
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It does raise the question of,
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they're not going to have passenger pigeon parents
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to teach them how to be a passenger pigeon.
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So what do you do about that?
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Well birds are pretty hard-wired, as it happens,
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so most of that is already in their DNA,
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but to supplement it, part of Ben's idea
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is to use homing pigeons
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to help train the young passenger pigeons how to flock
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and how to find their way to their old nesting grounds
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and feeding grounds.
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There were some conservationists,
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really famous conservationists like Stanley Temple,
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who is one of the founders of conservation biology,
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and Kate Jones from the IUCN, which does the Red List.
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They're excited about all this,
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but they're also concerned that it might be competitive
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with the extremely important efforts to protect
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endangered species that are still alive,
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that haven't gone extinct yet.
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You see, you want to work on protecting the animals out there.
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You want to work on getting the market for ivory in Asia down
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so you're not using 25,000 elephants a year.
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But at the same time, conservation biologists are realizing
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that bad news bums people out.
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And so the Red List is really important, keep track of
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what's endangered and critically endangered, and so on.
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But they're about to create what they call a Green List,
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and the Green List will have species that are doing fine, thank you,
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species that were endangered, like the bald eagle,
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but they're much better off now, thanks to everybody's good work,
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and protected areas around the world
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that are very, very well managed.
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So basically, they're learning how to build on good news.
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And they see reviving extinct species
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as the kind of good news you might be able to build on.
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Here's a couple related examples.
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Captive breeding will be a major part of bringing back these species.
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The California condor was down to 22 birds in 1987.
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Everybody thought is was finished.
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Thanks to captive breeding at the San Diego Zoo,
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there's 405 of them now, 226 are out in the wild.
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That technology will be used on de-extincted animals.
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Another success story is the mountain gorilla in Central Africa.
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In 1981, Dian Fossey was sure they were going extinct.
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There were just 254 left.
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Now there are 880. They're increasing in population
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by three percent a year.
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The secret is, they have an eco-tourism program,
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which is absolutely brilliant.
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So this photograph was taken last month by Ryan
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with an iPhone.
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That's how comfortable these wild gorillas are with visitors.
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Another interesting project, though it's going to need some help,
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is the northern white rhinoceros.
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There's no breeding pairs left.
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But this is the kind of thing that
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a wide variety of DNA for this animal is available in the frozen zoo.
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A bit of cloning, you can get them back.
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So where do we go from here?
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These have been private meetings so far.
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I think it's time for the subject to go public.
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What do people think about it?
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You know, do you want extinct species back?
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Do you want extinct species back?
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(Applause)
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Tinker Bell is going to come fluttering down.
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It is a Tinker Bell moment,
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because what are people excited about with this?
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What are they concerned about?
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We're also going to push ahead with the passenger pigeon.
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So Ben Novak, even as we speak, is joining the group
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that Beth Shapiro has at UC Santa Cruz.
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They're going to work on the genomes
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of the passenger pigeon and the band-tailed pigeon.
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As that data matures, they'll send it to George Church,
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who will work his magic, get passenger pigeon DNA out of that.
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We'll get help from Bob Lanza and Mike McGrew
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to get that into germ plasm that can go into chickens
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that can produce passenger pigeon squabs
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that can be raised by band-tailed pigeon parents,
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and then from then on, it's passenger pigeons all the way,
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maybe for the next six million years.
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You can do the same thing, as the costs come down,
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for the Carolina parakeet, for the great auk,
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for the heath hen, for the ivory-billed woodpecker,
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for the Eskimo curlew, for the Caribbean monk seal,
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for the woolly mammoth.
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Because the fact is, humans have made a huge hole
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in nature in the last 10,000 years.
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We have the ability now,
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and maybe the moral obligation, to repair some of the damage.
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Most of that we'll do by expanding and protecting wildlands,
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by expanding and protecting
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the populations of endangered species.
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But some species
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that we killed off totally
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we could consider bringing back
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to a world that misses them.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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Chris Anderson: Thank you.
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I've got a question.
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So, this is an emotional topic. Some people stand.
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I suspect there are some people out there sitting,
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kind of asking tormented questions, almost, about,
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well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute,
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there's something wrong with mankind
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interfering in nature in this way.
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There's going to be unintended consequences.
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You're going to uncork some sort of Pandora's box
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of who-knows-what. Do they have a point?
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Stewart Brand: Well, the earlier point is
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we interfered in a big way by making these animals go extinct,
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and many of them were keystone species,
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and we changed the whole ecosystem they were in
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by letting them go.
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Now, there's the shifting baseline problem, which is,
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so when these things come back,
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they might replace some birds that are there
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that people really know and love.
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I think that's, you know, part of how it'll work.
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This is a long, slow process --
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One of the things I like about it, it's multi-generation.
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We will get woolly mammoths back.
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CA: Well it feels like both the conversation
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and the potential here are pretty thrilling.
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Thank you so much for presenting. SB: Thank you.
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CA: Thank you. (Applause)
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