Milton Glaser: How great design makes ideas new

譯者: Cheng-Ying Hsieh 審譯者: Shelley Krishna Tsang

'Theme and variations' is one of those forms that

思考 "主題"和"主題的變化"

require a certain kind of intellectual activity,

需要相當的智力活動。

because you are always comparing the variation

因為你得不斷地比較

with the theme that you hold in your mind.

烙印在你腦中的"主題"與其"變化"。

You might say that the theme is nature

你可以說"主題"是事物的根源

and everything that follows is a variation on the subject.

而隨之而來的皆是這個主題的變化。

I was asked, I guess about six years ago,

差不多在六年前，

to do a series of paintings

我受邀創作一系列的畫

that in some way would celebrate the birth of Piero della Francesca.

為了慶祝畢也洛.德拉.法蘭契斯卡的生日。

And it was very difficult for me to imagine

對我而言

how to paint pictures that were based on Piero

以畢也洛為靈感去創作是件難事

until I realized that I could look at Piero as nature --

直到我領悟畢也洛就是這個靈感的根源。

that I would have the same attitude towards looking at Piero della Francesca

我可以以等同於觀看一棵窗外綠樹的態度

as I would if I were looking out a window at a tree.

去觀看畢也洛.德拉.法蘭契斯卡。

And that was enormously liberating to me.

這對我來說是個徹底的解放，

Perhaps it's not a very insightful observation,

或許這是種不太深刻的觀察，

but that really started me on a path to be able to do a kind of theme and variations

但這確實讓我找到一個辦法依照畢也洛(Piero)的作品，

based on a work by Piero,

進行主題和變動。

in this case that remarkable painting that's in the Uffizi, "The Duke of Montefeltro,"

以烏菲茲美術館中著名的藏品“烏爾班公爵-費德里柯.達.蒙特費爾托‘為例，

who faces his consort, Battista.

他面對著他配偶 巴蒂絲達。

Once I realized that I could take some liberties with the subject,

當我明瞭可以不用受限於主題後，

I did the following series of drawings.

我創作了以下這系列的繪畫。

That's the real Piero della Francesca --

這是畢也洛．德拉．法蘭契斯卡的原作。

one of the greatest portraits in human history.

其中一幅在人類歷史上非常重要的肖像畫。

And these, I'll just show these without comment.

這些我就不一一解說了。

It's just a series of variations on the head of the Duke of Montefeltro,

都是從原本的肖像發展出來的變化。

who's a great, great figure in the Renaissance,

這位公爵是在文藝復興時期非常重要的人物，

and probably the basis for Machiavelli's "The Prince."

馬基維利所寫君王論可能就是以他為榜樣。

He apparently lost an eye in battle,

他顯然在某場戰役中失去了一隻眼睛，

which is why he is always shown in profile.

因此他總是以側面示人。

And this is Battista.

這是巴蒂絲達。

And then I decided I could move them around a little bit --

接著我決定把他們稍加移動一下。

so that for the first time in history, they're facing the same direction.

做就史上第一次他們望向同一方向。

Whoops! Passed each other.

哎呀! 他們擦身而過。

And then a visitor from another painting by Piero,

接下來有位訪客，

this is from "The Resurrection of Christ" --

他來自畢也洛(Piero)所畫的"基督的復活(The Resurrection of Christ)"。

as though the cast had just gotten of the set to have a chat.

擺出好像要聊天一樣的陣式。

And now, four large panels:

現在把圖分成四大格。

this is upper left;

這是左上。

upper right;

右上。

lower left;

左下。

lower right.

右下。

Incidentally, I've never understood the conflict between abstraction and naturalism.

順道一提，我從未搞懂為什麼抽象主義和自然主義之間會有衝突，

Since all paintings are inherently abstract to begin with

因為所有的畫作都開始於一種與生俱來的抽象

there doesn't seem to be an argument there.

所以實在沒有道理有任何爭議存在。

On another subject --

換個話題，

(Laughter) --

(笑聲)

I was driving in the country one day with my wife,

有一天我和我太太在鄉間開著車，

and I saw this sign,

我看到一個標誌，(可靠的荷蘭人 汽車維修廠)

and I said, "That is a fabulous piece of design."

我說："這是一個很棒的設計。"

And she said, "What are you talking about?"

她說："你在說些什麼?"

I said, "Well, it's so persuasive,

我說"嗯，這標誌非常有說服力，

because the purpose of that sign is to get you into the garage,

因為這標誌的目的就是希望你把車開進他的修車廠，

and since most people are so suspicious of garages,

而大多數人都不相信修車廠，

and know that they're going to be ripped off,

覺得進去之後都會被騙，

they use the word 'reliable.'

他們用了"可靠的"這個詞。

But everybody says they're reliable.

但每一個人都說他們是可靠的。

But, reliable Dutchman" --

但是 "可靠的荷蘭人 (reliable Dutchman)" --

(Laughter) --

(笑聲)

"Fantastic!"

太了不起了!

Because as soon as you hear the word Dutchman --

因為只要你聽到這詞"Dutchman"，

which is an archaic word, nobody calls Dutch people "Dutchmen" anymore --

這是一個古老的用語，已經沒有人用這字稱呼荷蘭人了，

but as soon as you hear Dutchman,

但是只要你聽到"Dutchman"

you get this picture of the kid with his finger in the dike,

你腦中就會浮現一個小孩站在堤防前，

preventing the thing from falling and flooding Holland, and so on.

用他的手指堵住堤防的裂縫，避免洪水淹沒荷蘭等等之類的事。

And so the entire issue is detoxified by the use of "Dutchman."

所以說這整個問題都因為用了"Dutchman"而解套。

Now, if you think I'm exaggerating at all in this,

如果你覺得這種說法太過誇大，

all you have to do is substitute something else, like "Indonesian."

那你可以用其他字來取代它，像是"印尼人"。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Or even "French."

或甚至是法國人。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Now, "Swiss" works, but you know it's going to cost a lot of money.

瑞士人也可以，但你知道這將會花一大筆錢。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

I'm going to take you quickly through the actual process of doing a poster.

我將帶你們快速瀏覽海報創作的實際過程。

I do a lot of work for the School of Visual Arts, where I teach,

在我任教於視覺藝術學院(SVA)時，我為了這間學校做很多作品。

and the director of this school -- a remarkable man named Silas Rhodes --

這間學校的總監，一位很傑出的先生 - Silas Rhodes

often gives you a piece of text and he says, "Do something with this."

經常給人一段文字，然後說"用這段話做些什麼。"

And so he did.

他也這樣對我做過。

And this was the text -- "In words as fashion the same rule will hold/

這段文字是"用詞和時尚皆擁有相同的規則，

Alike fantastic if too new or old/

過於立異或守舊都同樣的荒唐，

Be not the first by whom the new are tried/

不要第一個去嘗試標新的東西，

Nor yet the last to lay the old aside."

也不要當最後墨守成規的俗人。"

I could make nothing of that.

我不知道該怎麼做。

And I really struggled with this one.

這讓我感到非常吃力。

And the first thing I did, which was sort of in the absence of another idea,

最初我做的作品缺乏了想法，

was say I'll sort of write it out and make some words big,

我就把他們寫出來，並且把某些字放大，

and I'll have some kind of design on the back somehow,

然後大概對背景做了一些設計，

and I was hoping -- as one often does -- to stumble into something.

如同其他人一樣，我希望從中激發出些靈感。

So I took another crack at it --

然後我又做了其他的嘗試，

you've got to keep it moving --

你必須一直嘗試。

and I Xeroxed some words on pieces of colored paper

我把一些字印在不同的色紙上

and I pasted them down on an ugly board.

然後我把他們貼在一個不怎樣的板子上。

I thought that something would come out of it,

我想有些字會特別浮現出來，

like "Words rule fantastic new old first last Pope"

像是"字、規則、完美、新、舊、第一、最後、波普"

because it's by Alexander Pope,

因為這是出自亞歷山大.波普，

but I sort of made a mess out of it,

但是也被我搞的有些雜亂，

and then I thought I'd repeat it in some way so it was legible.

我想我可以依照這方式，讓他們更清楚。

So, it was going nowhere.

但好像走進死胡同了。

Sometimes, in the middle of a resistant problem,

有時候，在遇到這難纏的問題時，

I write down things that I know about it.

我會寫下我所了解的部份。

But you can see the beginning of an idea there,

你可以在上頭看到我一開始的想法，

because you can see the word "new" emerging from the "old."

你可以看到"新(new)"從"舊(old)"浮現出來。

That's what happens.

事情就是這樣發生了。

There's a relationship between the old and the new;

舊（old）和新（new）有種聯繫，

the new emerges from the context of the old.

"新（new）"是從"舊（old）" 這字中間浮現出來。

And then I did some variations of it,

然後我做了一些變化。

but it still wasn't coalescing graphically at all.

但是這樣的設計看起來一點都不協調。

I had this other version which had something interesting about it

然後我做了另一個版本，加入一些有趣的想法

in terms of being able to put it together in your mind from clues.

依據你所能收集線索把他們拼湊起來。

The W was clearly a W, the N was clearly an N,

W清楚的顯示是個W，N也是一樣，

even though they were very fragmentary

雖然他們非常的不完整，

and there wasn't a lot of information in it.

也沒有太多的資訊在裡頭。

Then I got the words "new" and "old"

然後我換種字型，

and now I had regressed back to a point where there seemed to be no return.

但似乎我又走入了另一個死胡同。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

I was really desperate at this point.

這時候我真的感到非常的絕望。

And so, I do something I'm truthfully ashamed of,

接下來我做了一些令人羞愧的事情，

which is that I took two drawings I had made for another purpose

我拿了兩幅畫，這兩幅畫是為了其他事而作的

and I put them together.

我把他們放在一起

It says "dreams" at the top.

這是關於夢的畫。

And I was going to do a thing, I say, "Well, change the copy.

然後我準備做件事情，我說："嗯，改變一下這個版本。

Let it say something about dreams, and come to SVA

讓它說一些關於夢的事情，來視覺藝術學院

and you'll sort of fulfill your dreams."

你將會實現你的夢想。"

But, to my credit,

但是對我來說，

I was so embarrassed about doing that

做這件事會讓我感到很不好意思，

that I never submitted this sketch.

因此我從來沒有提出這份草稿。

And, finally, I arrived at the following solution.

最後，我得到了以下的解答。

Now, it doesn't look terribly interesting,

這看起來不是這麼有趣，

but it does have something

但確實存在某些意思

that distinguishes it from a lot of other posters.

在眾多海報中顯得與眾不同。

For one thing, it transgresses the idea of what a poster's supposed to be,

但有一點，他違背了一張海報應有的特點，

which is to be understood and seen immediately, and not explained.

一張海報應該可以馬上被人了解、看懂，而不需要額外的解釋。

I remember hearing all of you in the graphic arts --

在平面藝術裡，大家都懂一個道理 -

"If you have to explain it, it ain't working."

"如果還需要解釋，那就行不通了。"

And one day I woke up and I said, "Well, suppose that's not true?"

但有一天我起床時，想到，"或許，這也不一定對？"

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

So here's what it says in my explanation at the bottom left.

所以左下角有我寫的註解

It says, "Thoughts: This poem is impossible.

這寫到 "思想：這首詩是不可能的。

Silas usually has a better touch with his choice of quotations.

Silas常常對於他所選擇的引證有比較好的感受。

This one generates no imagery at all."

但這首詩在我腦中產生不出一點影像。"

I am now exposing myself to my audience, right?

我現在正在剖析自己給我的觀眾。對吧?

Which is something you never want to do professionally.

這種事你絕對不會想要做的很專業。

"Maybe the words can make the image without anything else happening.

"或許文字可以不需借助任何東西而變成圖像。

What's the heart of this poem?

這首詩所要表達的是什麼?

Don't be trendy if you want to be serious.

你要認真就不要趕潮流。

Is doing the poster this way trendy in itself?

但製作廣告本身不就在趕潮流嗎？

I guess one could reduce the idea further

我想我們可以簡化這個想法

by suggesting that the new emerges behind and through the old,

假設"新"浮現在"舊"之後，然後穿越過，

like this."

像是這個："

And then I show you a little drawing --

我展示給你一些畫作 -

you see, you remember that old thing I discarded?

你記得剛剛那些被我丟棄的作品嗎？

Well, I found a way to use it.

嗯，我找到方法去利用他。

So, there's that little alternative over there,

所以在這裡，我們有些不同的作法。

and I say, "Not bad," -- criticizing myself --

我說"還不錯" - 我評論我自己

"but more didactic than visual.

"但嘴巴上說得還是比看得到部份多。

Maybe what wants to be said is that old and the new are locked in a dialectical embrace,

或許說這麼多，最重要的是新和舊互為唇齒。

a kind of dance where each defines the other."

他們彼此共舞，相互輝映。"

And then more self-questioning -- "Am I being simple-minded?

再一次的自我懷疑 -- "我是不是想簡單了呢?

Is this the kind of simple that looks obvious, or the kind that looks profound?

這種所謂的"簡單"，到底是就是看起來明顯，還是那種看起來艱深的呢?

There's a significant difference.

這中間有非常大的差異。

This could be embarrassing.

這可以令人尷尬。

Actually, I realize fear of embarrassment drives me as much as any ambition.

實際上，我明白驅動著我是這種令人為難的恐懼，野心反而是其次。

Do you think this sort of thing could really attract a student to the school?"

你覺得這樣的東西可以吸引學生來學校嗎?“

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Well, I think there are two fresh things here -- two fresh things.

嗯，在這裡我想出現了兩個新的想法 -- 兩個嶄新的想法。

One is the sort of willingness to expose myself to a critical audience,

其一是 - 樂意在挑剔的觀眾前面剖析自己，

and not to suggest that I am confident about what I'm doing.

並且不去預設我對我所做的事情很有自信。

And as you know, you have to have a front.

如你所知的，你必須朝向前方。

I mean -- you've got to be confident;

我的意思是 - 你必須有自信。

if you don't believe in your work, who else is going to believe in it?

如果你都不能相信你的作品，誰又能夠相信呢?

So that's one thing,

這是一件，某程度上

to introduce the idea of doubt into graphics.

介紹"對圖像抱懷疑理念"的事。

That can be a big contribution.

這可以是個相當大的貢獻。

The other thing is to actually give you two solutions for the price of one;

另一件事情是，用一個價錢，其實給自己提供兩個方案。

you get the big one

你可以選一個比較偉大的

and if you don't like that, how about the little one?

如果你不喜歡那個，那選小巧的如何？

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And that too is a relatively new idea.

這也是較為新的想法。

And here's just a series of experiments

這裡有一系列的實驗

where I ask the question of -- does a poster have to be square?

這裡我問我自己，海報一定要是方正的嗎？

Now, this is a little illusion.

這個讓你有些錯覺。

That poster is not folded.

這海報沒有被摺疊。

It's not folded, that's a photograph

真的沒有摺疊，這就是一張圖片。

and it's cut on the diagonal.

只是在對角線上被切割了。

Same cheap trick in the upper left-hand corner.

同樣的招式用在左上角。

And here,

而這個，

a very peculiar poster because,

一個非常特殊的海報，

simply because of using the isometric perspective in the computer,

因為它用了電腦上的等角投影法，

it won't sit still in the space.

它不是很穩固的放在半空中。

At times, it seems to be wider at the back than the front,

它似乎後面比前面更寬些，

and then it shifts.

有一些位移。

And if you sit here long enough, it'll float off the page into the audience.

如果你坐在這裡夠久，他會從紙浮出來到你們面前。

But, we don't have time.

但我們沒有這麼多的時間。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And then an experiment --

接著另一個實驗 -

a little bit about the nature of perspective,

用到一點關於透視法的特性，

where the outside shape is determined by the peculiarity of perspective,

外部的形狀被透視法的特性所決定了

but the shape of the bottle -- which is identical to the outside shape --

但是瓶子的形狀 -- 他與外部的形狀是一樣的 --

is seen frontally.

看似立體而面向你的。

And another piece for the art directors' club

另一幅作品是為了藝術總監俱樂部所作的

is "Anna Rees" casting long shadows.

是Anna Rees投射出長長的影子。

This is another poster from the School of Visual Arts.

這張海報不是出自於視覺藝術學院。

There were 10 artists invited to participate in it,

有十位藝術家被邀請參與這個活動，

and it was one of those things where it was extremely competitive

這是其中一件非常有競爭性的事情，

and I didn't want to be embarrassed,

我不希望丟臉，

so I worked very hard on this.

所以我很認真的去創作。

The idea was -- and it was a brilliant idea --

這構想 - 這是一個非常出色的構想 -

was to have 10 posters distributed throughout the city's subway system

讓十張海報散佈於城市的地鐵系統裡，

so every time you got on the subway you'd be passing a different poster,

所以每次搭乘地鐵時，就會經過不同的海報，

all of which had a different idea of what art is.

而這些海報對於"藝術是什麼"有不同的詮釋。

But I was absolutely stuck on the idea of "art is"

但我完全被"藝術是"(art is)困住了

and trying to determine what art was.

我嘗試去決定藝術就是這樣。

But then I gave up and I said, "Well, art is whatever."

但我放棄了，我說："嗯，藝術是什麼都可以(art is whatever)。"

And as soon as I said that,

當我一說出這句話時，

I discovered that the word "hat" was hidden in the word "whatever,"

我發現 "帽子（hat）“這字藏在”什麼都可以（whatever）“ 裡頭。

and that led me to the inevitable conclusion.

這引導我到一個必然的結論裡。

But then again, it's on my list of didactic posters.

而且再一次，這成為我說教海報的其中之一。

My intent is to have a literary accompaniment that explains the poster,

我意圖利用文學來解釋這幅海報，

in case you don't get it.

以防你不了解這海報到底是什麼意思。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Now this says, "Note to the viewer:

這裡說，" 觀眾注意 --

I thought I might use a visual cliche of our time -- Magritte's everyman --

我想我運用了一個在現在用到爛的意象，馬格利特(René François Ghislain Magritte)的戴黑帽的男人。

to express the idea that art is mystery, continuity and history.

來表達一個概念：藝術是神秘、連續和歷史的。

I'm also convinced that, in an age of computer manipulation,

我也被說服這是一個電腦主宰的時代，

surrealism has become banal,

超現實主義已經不算什麼了，

a shadow of its former self.

變為之前自己的影子了。

The phrase 'Art is whatever'

這句 "藝術是什麼都可以 (art is whatever)"

expresses the current inclusiveness that surrounds art-making --

表達出現今藝術實踐的各種包容性、可能性 -

a sort of 'it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it' notion.

不關乎於你怎麼做，而關於你的概念、想法、見解。

The shadow of Magritte falls across the central part of the poster

馬格利特的影子落在海報中間的部份

a poetic event that occurs as the shadow man isolates the word 'hat,'

有種詩意的感覺，影子把 ”帽子（hat）“ 這字隔離起來，

hidden in the word 'whatever.'

藏在”什麼都可以（whatever）”中。

The four hats shown in the poster suggests how art might be defined:

顯示在海報中的帽子暗示藝術或許可以被定義

as a thing itself, the worth of the thing, the shadow of the thing,

成為東西的本身，他的價值，他的影子，

and the shape of the thing.

和他的形狀。

Whatever."

什麼都可以。

(Applause)

(鼓掌)

OK.

好

(Applause)

(鼓掌)

And the one that I did not submit,

還有一幅我沒有交出去，

which I still like,

可我還是很喜歡。

I wanted to use the same phrase.

我想用相同的詞彙 --

There were wonderful experiments by Bruno Munari

在幾年前Bruno Munari創造一個很棒的試驗，

on letterforms some years ago --

一種字的形式 --

sort of, see how far you could go and still be able to read them.

測試文字被拆解到什麼程度，還可以看得懂。

And that idea stuck in my head.

這主意一直存在我腦中。

But then I took the pieces that I had taken off and put them at the bottom.

不過之後，我把我去掉的部份放在海報的下方。

And, of course those are the remains, and they're so labeled.

然而，當然這些剩下的部份，還是很有含意的。

But what really happens is that you read it as:

而實際上你可以把它讀成 --

"Art is whatever remains."

"藝術是剩下什麼都可以 (Art is whatever remains)。"

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

(鼓掌)