My descent into America’s neo-Nazi movement -- and how I got out | Christian Picciolini

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: nr chan

My journey away from violent extremism began 22 years ago,

我遠離暴力極端主義的旅程， 從 22 年前開始，

when I denounced racism

當時我公然譴責種族主義，

and left the American white supremacist skinhead movement

並脫離了我過去協助建立的

that I had helped build.

美國白人至上光頭運動。

(Cheers and applause)

（歡呼與掌聲）

I was just 22 years old at the time,

那時我才 22 歲，

but I had already spent eight years, from the time I was 14 years old,

但我已經花了 8 年時間， 也就是從 14 歲開始，

as one of the earliest and youngest members

成為最早也最年輕就加入

and an eventual leader within America's most violent hate movement.

美國最暴力的仇恨運動的成員， 最終還成了領導人。

But I wasn't born into hate;

但我並非出生時就帶著仇恨的；

in fact, it was quite the opposite.

事實還完全相反。

I had a relatively normal childhood.

我的童年很正常。

My parents are Italian immigrants

我父母是義大利移民者，

who came to the United States in the mid-1960s

他們在 60 年代中期來到美國，

and settled on the South Side of Chicago,

在芝加哥的南區安頓下來，

where they eventually met,

他們在那裡相識，

and opened a small beauty shop.

開了一間小型美容院。

Right after I was born, things got a little bit more difficult.

我出生之後， 生活就比較困苦些了。

They struggled to survive with raising a young family and a new business,

他們努力求生存，要養育小孩， 還要張羅新事業，

often working seven days a week,

常常每週要工作 7 天，

14 hours a day,

每天工作 14 小時，

taking on second and third jobs just to earn a meager living.

還要兼第 2 份、第 3 份工作 來賺一點微薄的生活費。

And quality time with my parents was pretty nonexistent.

和我父母相處的高品質時間， 幾乎是不存在的。

Even though I knew they loved me very much,

雖然我知道他們很愛我，

growing up, I felt abandoned.

成長過程我還是覺得被拋棄了。

I was lonely, and I started to withdraw,

我很寂寞，我開始退縮，

and then I started to resent my parents and become very angry.

接著我開始怨恨我的父母， 我變得非常憤怒。

And as I was growing up, through my teenage years,

在我十幾歲的成長過程中，

I started to act out to try and get attention from my parents.

我開始會付諸行動， 試著得到我父母的注意力。

And one day, when I was 14,

我 14 歲時，有一天，

I was standing in an alley, and I was smoking a joint,

我站在一條巷子裡吸大麻，

and a man who was twice my age, with a shaved head and tall black boots,

一名光頭男子，年紀有我兩倍， 穿著黑色長靴，

came up to me,

走向我，

and he snatched the joint from my lips.

他把大麻煙從我的唇間奪走。

Then he put his hand on my shoulder and he looked me in the eyes,

他把手放在我肩上，盯著我的雙眼，

and he said,

他說：

"That's what the communists and the Jews want you to do

「那正是共產黨員 和猶太人希望你做的，

to keep you docile."

讓你變得易馴服。」

I was 14 years old,

我才 14 歲，

I'd been trading baseball cards and watching "Happy Days" --

我平常會交換棒球卡 和觀賞《歡樂時光》——

I didn't really know what a Jew was.

我搞不懂猶太人是什麼。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's true.

是真的。

And the only communist that I knew was the bad Russian guy

我只知道一個共產黨員， 是個俄國壞蛋，

是我最愛的電影 《洛基》裡的角色。

in my favorite Rocky movie.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And since I'm here baring my soul with you,

既然我來這裡向各位坦誠我的事，

I can reveal that I did not even know what the word "docile" meant.

我可以坦白說，我當時還不知道 「易馴服」是什麼意思。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Dead serious.

我是非常認真的。

But it was as if this man in this alley had offered me a lifeline.

但，就彷彿巷子裡的這個男人 提供了我一條生命線。

For 14 years, I'd felt marginalized and bullied.

14 年來，我一直覺得 被邊緣化、被霸凌。

I had low self-esteem.

我的自尊感很低。

And frankly, I didn't know who I was, where I belonged,

老實說，我當時不知道 我是誰、我屬於哪裡，

or what my purpose was.

或我的人生目的為何。

I was lost.

我迷失了。

And overnight, because this man had pulled me in,

一夜間，因為 這名男子把我拉進去，

and I had grabbed onto that lifeline with every fiber of my being,

我盡全力抓住了那條生命線。

I had gone from "Joanie Loves Chachi"

我從《喬安娜愛恰奇》（節目）

to full-blown Nazi.

變成了全面的納粹。

Overnight.

一夜間。

I started to listen to the rhetoric

我開始聽他們的言論，

and believe it.

並相信它。

I started to watch very closely as the leaders of this organization

我開始近距離觀看 這個組織的領導人，

would target vulnerable young people who felt marginalized

看他們針對覺得 被邊緣化的脆弱年輕人，

and then draw them in with promises of paradise

用被破碎的天堂承諾

that were broken.

吸引他們。

And then I started to recruit myself.

接著，我自己也開始招募新人。

I started to do that by making white-power music.

我的做法是去做白人力量的音樂。

And soon, I became the leader of that infamous organization

很快的，我就成了 那聲名狼籍的組織的領導人。

that was led by that man in that alley

原本領導該組織的人，

who recruited me that day,

就是那天在巷子裡招募我的人，

who was America's first neo-Nazi skinhead and who had radicalized me.

他是美國第一個新納粹光頭黨員， 也是他讓我變偏激的。

For the next eight years,

接下來的 8 年，

I believed the lies that I had been fed.

我相信那些餵給我的謊言。

And though I saw no evidence of it whatsoever,

雖然我都沒看到什麼證據，

I didn't hesitate to blame every Jewish person in the world

我也毫不猶豫地責怪 世界上的每一個猶太人，

for what I thought was a white, European genocide

我以為有場歐洲白人大屠殺

being promoted by them through a multiculturalist agenda.

是他們透過多文化議程來推動的。

I blamed people of color

我怪罪有色人種，

for the crime and violence and the drugs in the city,

認為城市中的犯罪、 暴力、毒品是他們造成的，

completely neglecting the fact that I was committing acts of violence

我完全忽視了我自己 也在做出暴力行為，

on a daily basis,

且每天都做。

and that in many cases,

我也忽視許多案例中，

it was white supremacists who were funneling drugs

是白人至上主義者

讓毒品流入內都市。

into the inner cities.

And I blamed immigrants

我還怪罪移民者，

for taking jobs from white Americans,

他們搶走了白種美國人的工作，

completely neglecting the fact that my parents were hardworking immigrants

我完全忽視了我父母 就是辛勤工作的移民者，

who struggled to survive,

他們努力求生存，

despite not getting help from anybody else.

儘管沒有得到任何人的協助。

For the next eight years,

接下來的 8 年，

I saw friends die,

我看見朋友死亡，

I saw others go to prison and inflict untold pain

我看見其他人入獄， 他們把無法形容的痛苦

on countless victims and their families' lives.

帶入無數的受害者 及其家人的人生中。

I heard horrific stories from young women in the movement,

在運動中，我聽到年輕女性 訴說很恐怖的故事，

who'd been brutally raped by the very men they were conditioned to trust,

她們被殘忍地強暴， 而兇手是自己被訓練去信任的男人，

and I myself committed acts of violence against people,

我自己也對人做出暴力行為，

solely for the color of their skin,

只因為他們的膚色、

who they loved,

因為他們愛的人，

or the god that they prayed to.

或因為他們向哪個神禱告。

I stockpiled weapons for what I thought was an upcoming race war.

我儲備武器，因為我 以為有種族戰爭要到來。

I went to six high schools;

我換過 6 間高中；

I was kicked out of four of them,

其中 4 間把我開除，

one of them, twice.

有一間還開除我 2 次。

And 25 years ago, I wrote and performed racist music

25 年前，我會寫 也會唱種族主義音樂，

that found its way to the internet decades later

數十年後，這音樂在網路上流傳，

and partially inspired a young white nationalist

部分鼓舞了一位年輕的 白人國家主義者

to walk into a sacred Charleston, South Carolina, church

走進南卡羅萊納州 查爾斯頓的一間神聖教堂，

and senselessly massacre nine innocent people.

毫無感覺地屠殺了 9 個無辜的人。

But then my life changed.

但，接著，我的人生改變了。

At 19 years old, I met a girl who was not in the movement,

19 歲時，我遇見了一個女孩， 她不在這運動中，

who didn't have a racist bone in her body,

她體內沒有一點點種族主義成份，

and I fell in love with her.

我愛上了她。

And at 19, we got married,

19 歲時，我們結婚了，

and we had our first son.

我們有了第一個兒子。

And when I held my son in my arms in the delivery room that day,

那天，當我在產房中 用雙手抱起我兒子時，

not only did I reconnect with some of the innocence that I had lost

我不只是重新連結上了 一些我在 14 歲時

at 14 years old,

失去的純真，

but it also began to challenge

一開始吸引我加入 這運動的重要因素，

the very important things that drew me to the movement to begin with:

也開始被我質疑，包括：

identity, community and purpose --

身分、社群，和目的——

things that I had been struggling with as a young boy.

這些都是我小時候掙扎著想得到的。

And now, I struggled with the concept of who I was again.

現在，我再一次為了 「我是誰」的概念而掙扎。

Was I this neo-Nazi hatemonger,

我是這個新納粹的煽動仇恨者？

or was I a caring father and husband?

或者我是個有愛的父親和丈夫？

Was my community the one that I had manufactured around me

我的社會，是我身邊 這個被我捏造出來、

to boost my own ego,

用來促進自尊、

because I felt self-hatred for myself and I wanted to project it onto others,

因為我其實有著自我憎恨， 且想要投射到他人身上的社會？

or was it the one that I had physically given life to?

還是我得著生命的那個社會？

Was my purpose to scorch the earth

我的目的是要把地球燒到焦黑？

or was it to make it a better place for my family?

或是要為了我的家庭 而讓世界成為更好的地方？

And suddenly, like a ton of bricks hit me,

突然間，就像有一噸的 磚塊砸在我身上一樣，

I became very confused with who I'd been for the last eight years.

我變得非常困惑， 不知道過去 8 年的我是誰。

And if only I'd been brave enough to walk away at that moment,

真希望我當時夠勇敢，能一走了之，

to understand what the struggle was that was happening inside of me,

去了解在我內在 所發生的掙扎是什麼，

then maybe tragedy could have been averted.

那麼也許悲劇可以被避免。

Instead, I did compromise.

但我卻選擇了妥協。

I took myself off the streets for the benefit of my family,

我為了家庭好，讓自己脫離了街頭，

because I was nervous that maybe I could go to jail or end up dead,

因為我很緊張， 怕我也許會去坐牢或是送命，

and they would have to fend for themselves.

我的家人就得供養自己的生活。

So I stepped back as a leader,

身為領導者，我退了一步，

and instead I opened a record store

我開了一間唱片行，

that I was going to sell white-power music in, of course,

當然，要販售的是白人力量音樂，

because I was importing it in from Europe.

我是從歐洲進口這些音樂的。

But I knew that if I was just a racist store selling racist music

但我知道，如果這只是間販售 種族主義音樂的種族主義商店，

the community would not allow me to be there.

社區不會容許我把店開在那裡。

So I decided I was going to also stock the shelves with other music,

所以我決定我也要在架上 放些其他類型的音樂，

like punk rock and heavy metal

比如龐克搖滾樂和重金屬，

and hip-hop.

還有嘻哈音樂。

And while the white-power music that I was selling

雖然我販售的白人力量音樂

was 75 percent of my gross revenue,

佔了我總收入的 75%，

because people were driving in from all over the country to buy it

因為全國各地的人會 特別開車來買這類音樂，

from the only store that was selling it,

這是唯一在販售這類音樂的店，

I also had customers come in to buy the other music.

但我也有客人進來買其他音樂。

And eventually, they started to talk to me.

後來，他們開始和我交談。

One day, a young black teen came in,

有一天，有一位年輕的 黑人青少年進來，

and he was visibly upset.

他看起來就很沮喪。

And I decided to ask him what was wrong.

我決定問他發生了什麼事。

And he told me that his mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer.

他告訴我，他的母親被診斷出乳癌。

And suddenly, this young black teenager,

我以前從未和這位年輕的黑人青少年

who I'd never had a meaningful conversation or interaction with,

進行過任何有意義的 交談或互動，突然間，

I was able to connect with,

我就能和他產生連結，

because my own mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer,

因為我自己的母親也被診斷出乳癌，

and I could feel his pain.

我能感受他的痛苦。

On another occasion, a gay couple came in with their son,

另外還有一次，有一對同性戀 帶著他們的兒子進來，

and it was undeniable to me that they loved their son

在我看來，他們很愛 他們的兒子，無可否認，

in the same profound ways that I loved mine.

就和我深刻地愛著 我兒子的方式是一樣的。

And suddenly, I couldn't rationalize or justify the prejudice

突然間，我無法再將 我腦袋中的偏見給合理化

that I had in my head.

或正當化了。

I decided to pull the white-power music from the inventory

我決定把白人力量音樂 從我的商品中拿掉，

when I became too embarrassed to sell it in front of my new friends.

因為我覺得在這些新朋友面前 賣這類音樂太尷尬了。

And of course, the store couldn't sustain itself,

當然，店無法經營下去，

so I had to close it.

我得把店關了。

At that same time, I lost nearly everything in my life.

同時，我幾乎失去了 我人生中的一切。

I used it as an opportunity to walk away

我把它當作一個離開的機會，

from the movement that I'd been a part of for eight years,

脫離我參與了 8 年的運動，

the only identity, community and purpose that I'd really known for most of my life.

脫離我大半人生中唯一知道的 身分、社區，和目的。

So I had nobody.

我無依無靠。

I lost my livelihood because I closed the store.

我失去了生計，因為我把店關了。

I didn't have a great relationship with my parents, even though they tried.

我和父母並沒有很好的關係， 雖然他們努力試過。

And my wife and children left me,

我太太和孩子離開了我，

because I hadn't left the movement and disengaged quickly enough.

因為我沒有及早離開運動。

And suddenly,

突然間，

I didn't know who I was again,

再一次，我不知道我是誰、

or where I fit in

我適合哪裡，

or what my purpose was supposed to be.

或是我的人生目的應該是什麼。

I was miserable inside,

我的內在非常悲慘，

and I often woke up in the morning

我常常早上醒來時，

wishing that I hadn't.

我希望我沒醒來。

About five years in,

大約過了 5 年，

one of the few friends that I had was concerned about my well-being,

我少數幾位朋友之一 來關心我過得好不好，

and she came to me and she said,

她來找我，她說：

"You need to do something, because I don't want to see you die."

「你得做點什麼， 因為我不想看你死。」

And she suggested that I go apply for a job where she worked,

她建議我去她工作的地方 應徵一份工作，

at a company called IBM.

那間公司叫 IBM。

Yeah, I thought she was crazy, too.

是啊，我也以為她瘋了。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Here I was, a closeted ex-Nazi covered in hate tattoos.

我是個隱蔽的前納粹， 全身是仇恨的刺青。

I didn't go to college.

我沒去唸大學。

I'd been kicked out of multiple high schools multiple times.

我被不只一間高中踢出來不只一次。

I didn't even own a computer.

我甚至沒有電腦。

But I went in,

但我去了，

and somehow, miraculously, I got the job.

不知怎麼的，很神奇的， 我得到了那份工作。

I was thrilled.

我非常興奮。

And then I became terrified to learn

接著，我知道了 一件讓我很惶恐的事，

that they'd actually be putting me back at my old high school,

他們要安排我回到我以前的高中，

the same one I got kicked out of twice,

我被這間高中退學 2 次，

to install their computers.

去那裡安裝電腦。

This was a high school where I had committed acts of violence

在這間高中，我做過暴力的行為，

against students, against faculty;

對學生、對教職員，

where I had protested out in front of the school for equal rights for whites

我曾在這間學校前面抗議， 爭取白人權利，

and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria

甚至還在自助食堂靜坐抗議，

to try and demand a white student union.

要求要有一個白人學生會。

And of course, as karma would have it,

當然，真的是命中注定，

within the first couple of hours,

在最初的幾個小時中，

who walks right by me but Mr. Johnny Holmes,

走過我旁邊的人偏偏 就是強尼赫姆斯先生，

the tough black security guard I had gotten in a fistfight with,

很強悍的警衛，我和他打過一架，

that got me kicked out the second time

這事造成我第 2 次被退學，

and led out in handcuffs from the school.

而且是帶著手銬離開學校的。

He didn't recognize me,

他沒認出我，

but I saw him,

但我看到了他，

and I didn't know what to do.

我不知道該怎麼做，

I was frozen; I was this grown man now, years out of the movement,

我呆住了，我那時是個成人了， 離開運動也有好幾年，

and I was sweating and I was trembling.

我滿身是汗，不停發抖。

But I decided I had to do something.

但我決定，我得做點什麼。

And I decided I needed to suffer under the weight of my past,

我決定，我得要背負起 過去的重量，承擔起這痛苦，

because for five years I had tried to outrun it.

因為 5 年來我一直試著逃脫過去。

I'd tried to make new friends and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,

我試著交新朋友， 用長袖把刺青蓋住，

and I wouldn't admit it

我不會承認它，

because I was afraid of being judged

因為我害怕會被別人評斷，

the same way I had judged other people.

就像我評斷別人那樣。

Well, I decided I was going to chase Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --

我決定我要去追赫姆斯先生， 追到停車場——

probably not the smartest decision that I made.

可能不是個很聰明的決定。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But when I found him, he was getting into his car,

但當我找到他時，他正要上他的車，

and I tapped him on the shoulder.

我拍了他的肩膀。

And when he turned around and he recognized me,

當他轉身時，他認出我了，

he took a step back because he was afraid.

出於害怕，他退後了一步。

And I didn't know what to say.

我不知道該說什麼。

Finally, the words came out of my mouth, and all I could think to say was,

終於，我開口了， 我只能想出這幾個字：

"I'm sorry."

「我很抱歉。」

And he embraced me,

他擁抱了我，

and he forgave me.

他原諒了我。

And he encouraged me to forgive myself.

他也鼓勵我原諒我自己。

He recognized that it wasn't the story of some broken go-nowhere kid

他了解到，我的故事並不是 一個破碎且一無所成的孩子，

who was going to just join a gang and go to prison.

會去加入幫派然後去坐牢。

He knew that this was the story of every young person who was vulnerable,

他知道，這是個脆弱 年輕人常見的故事，

who was searching for identity, community and purpose,

他們在尋找身分、社區，和目的。

and then hit a wall

卻碰壁了，

and was unable to find it

無法找到，

and went down a dark path.

因而走上了黑暗之路。

And he made me promise one thing,

他要我向他保證一件事，

that I would tell my story to whoever would listen.

保證我會說出我的故事， 給任何願意聽的人。

That was 18 years ago,

那是 18 年前，

and I've been doing it ever since.

我從此就一直在這麼做。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

You might be asking yourself right now:

你們現在可能正在心中問：

How does a good kid from a hardworking immigrant family

一個好孩子，來自 辛勤工作的移民家庭，

end up going down such a dark path?

怎麼會走上這麼黑暗的路？

One word: potholes.

兩個字：凹坑。

That's right. Potholes.

沒錯。凹坑。

I had a lot of potholes when I was kid.

我小時候，我遇到很多凹坑。

We all had them --

我們大家都有過——

you know, the things in life that we hit

這裡的凹坑指的是我們 在人生道路上遇到，

that invariably just kind of nudge us off our path,

把我們推離了我們的正途的東西，

and if they remain unresolved

如果它們一直沒被解決，

or untreated

沒被治療，

or not dealt with,

沒被處理，

sometimes we can get dangerously lost down pretty dark corridors.

有時，我們會危險地 迷失在黑暗的走廊。

Potholes can be things like trauma,

凹坑有可能是創傷、

abuse, unemployment,

虐待、失業、

neglect,

忽視、

untreated mental health conditions,

沒治療的心理疾病、

even privilege.

甚至特權。

And if we hit enough potholes on our journey in life,

如果在人生旅途上壓到很多，

and we don't have the resources or the help to navigate around them

且沒有資源或協助來幫我們繞過它們

or to pull us out,

或把我們拉出來，

well, sometimes good people end up doing bad things.

有時，好人最後也會做出壞事。

One such person who had potholes is Darrell.

有一個人也遇到凹坑，他叫戴洛。

Darrell is from upstate New York.

戴洛來自紐約的邊遠地區。

He had read my memoir,

他讀了我的回憶錄，

and he was really upset about the ending.

他對結局非常失望。

You see, I'd gotten out of the movement

你知道的，我脫離了運動，

and he was still in.

他卻還在其中。

And he emailed me and he said,

他寫信給我，說：

"I didn't really like the way that turned out."

「我不喜歡最後的轉變。」

And I said, "Well, I'm sorry."

我說：「喔，我很抱歉。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"But if you want to talk about it, we could certainly do that."

「但如果你想談談， 我們可以談談。」

And after a couple of weeks of going back and forth with Darrell,

和戴洛來來回回幾星期之後，

I learned he was a 31-year-old military veteran who had been injured

我知道他 31 歲， 是受傷而退伍的軍人，

and was really angry about not being able to go to Afghanistan

對於無法回到阿富汗去殺穆斯林

to kill Muslims.

感到很憤怒。

And one day on the phone,

有天，在電話上，

he told me that he had seen a Muslim man in the park praying,

他告訴我，他看到 一名穆斯林男子在公園祈禱，

and that all he wanted to do was kick him in the face.

他只想做一件事， 就是一腳踢在那個人臉上。

I flew to Buffalo the next day,

我隔天飛到水牛城，

and I sat down with Darrell,

我和戴洛坐下來談，

and I asked him,

我問他：

"Have you ever met a Muslim person before?"

「你以前有認識過 任何一個穆斯林嗎？」

And he said, "No!

他說：「沒有！

Why the hell would I want to do that?

我為什麼會想要這麼做？

They're evil. I don't want anything to do with them."

他們很邪惡。我不想 和他們扯上關係。」

I said, "OK."

我說：「好吧。」

So I excused myself, and I went into the bathroom

所以我請他讓我 暫時離開去一下洗手間，

and I took my phone out in the bathroom,

我到洗手間就拿出手機，

and I Googled the local mosque,

我上網搜尋了當地的清真寺，

and I called them very quietly from the bathroom,

我在洗手間小聲地打電話給他們，

and I said, "Excuse me, imam, I need a favor.

說：「不好意思，伊瑪目，我需要幫忙。 （註：imam，伊斯蘭教的領袖）

I have a Christian man

我這有個基督徒，

who would really love to learn more about your religion."

他真的很想多了解你們的宗教。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"Do you mind if we stop by?"

「你介不介意我們去拜訪？」

Well, it took some convincing for Darrell to go,

我花了點功夫說服戴洛，

but finally we got there,

終於我們去了那裡，

and when I knocked on the door,

當我敲門時，

the imam said he only had 15 minutes left for us,

伊瑪目說，他只能 給我們 15 分鐘，

because he was preparing for a prayer service.

因為他要準備祈禱儀式。

I said, "We'll take it."

我說：「沒問題。」

We went in,

我們進去裡面，

and two and a half hours later, we came out after hugging and crying

在裡面的這兩個半小時， 我們哭著擁抱彼此，

and, very strangely, bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason.

很奇妙的是我們還因為某種原因，

透過羅禮士產生連結。 （註：空手道冠軍、美國演員）

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I don't know what it was about that,

我不知道那是怎麼回事，

but that's what happened.

但就是發生了。

And I'm happy to say now that Darrell and the imam,

我很高興告訴各位， 現在常常可以在當地的

you can often find them at the local falafel stand,

中東蔬菜球攤子看到戴洛和伊瑪目

having lunch together.

一起吃中餐。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

You see, it's our disconnection from each other.

原因只是因為 我們和彼此沒有連結。

Hatred is born of ignorance.

仇恨是來自忽視。

Fear is its father, and isolation is its mother.

它的父親是恐懼，母親是孤立。

When we don't understand something, we tend to be afraid of it,

我們傾向會害怕自己不了解的東西，

and if we keep ourselves from it,

若我們讓自己不要去接近，

that fear grows, and sometimes, it turns into hatred.

恐懼就會加劇，有時會轉變為仇恨。

Since I've left the movement, I've helped over a hundred people

離開運動之後， 我已協助過超過一百個人

disengage from extremist movements, from white supremacist groups --

脫離白人至上主義團體的 極端主義運動——

(Applause)

（掌聲）

to even jihadist groups.

甚至連聖戰團體也有。

And the way I do that is not by arguing with them,

我的做法，並不是和他們爭論，

not by debating them,

不是和他們辯，

not by even telling them they're wrong,

甚至不會跟他們說他們錯了，

even though, boy, I want to sometimes.

即使有時我真的好想這樣做。

I don't do that.

我不會那麼做。

Instead, I don't push them away.

反之，我不會把他們推開。

I draw them in closer,

我把他們拉得更近，

and I listen very closely for their potholes,

我非常注意地傾聽他們的凹坑，

and then I begin to fill them in.

接著我開始把凹坑填起來。

I try to make people more resilient,

我試著讓人們更有韌性，

more self-confident,

更有自信，

more able to have skills to compete in the marketplace

更能夠有技能在市場中競爭，

so that they don't have to blame the other,

這樣他們就不用責怪對方，

the other that they've never met.

他們從來沒認識過的對方。

I'd like to just leave you with one last thing before I go.

在我結束之前， 我想再留給各位一個想法。

Of all the people I've worked with, they will all tell you the same thing.

所有我幫助過的人， 他們都會告訴你同樣的事。

One, they became extremists

第一，他們變成極端主義分子

because they wanted to belong, not because of ideology or dogma.

因為他們想有所歸屬， 而不是因為意識形態或教義。

And second, what brought them out

第二，讓他們脫離的原因，

was receiving compassion

是得到同理心，

from the people they least deserved it from,

來自最不應該同理他們的人，

when they least deserved it.

在他們最不值得被同理的時候。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

So I would like to leave you with a challenge:

所以我想留給各位一個挑戰：

go out there today, tomorrow -- hopefully every day --

離開這裡之後， 今天、明天，希望是每一天，

find somebody that you think is undeserving of your compassion

找到一個你認為不值得你同理的人，

and give it to them,

去同理他，

because I guarantee you,

因為，我敢保證，

they're the ones who need it the most.

他們是最需要同理心的人。

Thank you very much.

非常謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）