Ballroom dance that breaks gender roles | Trevor Copp and Jeff Fox

翻译人员: Zhiting Chen 校对人员: Geoff Chen

(Music)

（音乐）

(Applause)

（掌声）

Trevor Copp: When "Dancing With the Stars" first hit the airwaves,

特雷弗·克普：当“与星共舞” 首次出现在电视上，

that is not what it looked like.

不是看上去的那个样子。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Jeff and I were full-time ballroom dance instructors

杰夫和我是全职交谊舞老师

when the big TV ballroom revival hit,

当最大的电视交谊舞

and this was incredible.

这太厉害了。

I mean, one day we would say "foxtrot,"

我的意思是，某天我们会说 “跳狐步舞”

and people were like "Foxes trotting."

人们就说"狐狸旋转。"

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And the next day they were telling us

第二天他们告诉我们

the finer points of a good feather step.

什么是更好的羽步。

And this blew our minds.

这对我们的思维产生了冲击。

I mean, all of the ballroom dance geeking out that we had always done

我是说，所有的交谊舞 都是这样处理的

on why salsa worked differently than the competitive rumba

为什么salsa和竞技伦巴舞不同

and why tango traveled unlike the waltz,

为什么探戈舞步和华尔兹不同，

all of that just hit the public consciousness,

这些冲击了公众的意识，

and it changed everything.

改变了一切。

But running parallel to this excitement,

和这样的兴奋同时存在的还有，

the excitement that suddenly, somehow, we were cool --

突然间，不知为何， 我们被认为是很酷的人 --

(Laughter)

（笑声）

there was also this reservation.

当然还有这样的思考。

Why this and why now?

为什么会这样和为什么是现在？

Jeff Fox: When Trevor and I would get together for training seminars

杰夫·福克斯：当特雷弗和我 一起指导训练活动

or just for fun,

或是仅仅为了有趣，

we'd toss each other around, mix it up,

我们互相把对方扔出，

take a break from having to lead all the time.

不想要一直领舞 稍作休息。

We even came up with a system for switching lead and follow

我们甚至发明了一套系统 来交换领舞

while we were dancing,

在我们舞蹈的时候，

as a way of taking turns and playing fair.

作为互相领舞，轮流休息。

It wasn't until we used that system as part of a performance

直到某次在一个小型活动上

in a small festival

我们表演了这套交换领舞的系统

that we got an important tap on the shoulder.

随后一个很重要的“拍肩”。

Lisa O'Connell, a dramaturge and director of a playwright center,

丽莎·欧康奈尔，一位剧作家， 也是剧作中心的主任，

pulled us aside after the show and said,

在表演结束后把我们拉到一旁说，

"Do you have any idea how political that was?"

“你们知道这多么有政治意义吗？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So that began an eight-year collaboration to create a play

随后我们开始了为期八年的合作 来制作一部戏剧

which not only further developed our system for switching

这不仅开发了我们 交换领舞的系统

but also explored the impact of being locked into a single role,

同时也研究 被限定在单一角色的影响，

and what's worse,

更糟的是，

being defined by that single role.

被那个单一角色定义。

TC: Because, of course,

TC：因为，当然，

classic Latin and ballroom dancing isn't just a system of dancing;

古典拉丁舞和交谊舞 不仅仅是舞蹈的一个系统；

it's a way of thinking, of being,

它是一个思维方式，

of relating to each other

和他人连结的方式

that captured a whole period's values.

占领了一整个时期的价值认同。

There's one thing that stayed consistent, though:

有一件事情长久地存在， 那就是：

the man leads

男士领导

and the woman follows.

女士跟从。

So street salsa, championship tango, it's all the same --

街边的salsa舞，探戈舞锦标赛 都是一样的 --

he leads, she follows.

他领舞，她跟从。

So this was gender training.

这是性别训练。

You weren't just learning to dance --

你不仅仅是在学习跳舞 --

you were learning to "man" and to "woman."

你学习的是“男性”和“女性。”

It's a relic.

这是历史遗留。

And in the way of relics, you don't throw it out,

这样的遗留问题， 你并不会把它剔除，

but you need to know that this is the past.

但你需要知道 这已是过去。

This isn't the present.

这不是现在。

It's like Shakespeare: respect it, revive it -- great!

就像是莎士比亚： 尊重它，复兴它 -- 太棒了！

But know that this is history.

但要知道，这是历史。

This doesn't represent how we think today.

这不能代表当今我们如何思考。

So we asked ourselves:

于是，我们问我们自己：

If you strip it all down,

如果你去发掘本质，

what is at the core of partner dancing?

双人舞蹈的核心是什么？

JF: Well, the core principle of partner dancing

JF：双人舞蹈的核心原则是

is that one person leads, the other one follows.

一个人领导，另一个人跟从。

The machine works the same, regardless of who's playing which role.

机器也是这样运作的， 不管谁在哪个角色。

The physics of movement doesn't really give a crap about your gender.

移动行为根本不在意 你的性别是什么。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So if we were to update the existing form,

如果我们想要升级 现有的模式，

we would need to make it more representative

我们需要让它更具有代表性

of how we interact here, now, in 2015.

2015年的现在，我们是如何互动的。

When you watch ballroom, don't just watch what's there.

当你观赏交谊舞， 不要只关注那里有什么。

Watch what's not.

要关注，哪些是没有的。

The couple is always only a man and a woman.

一对搭档，一直都是 一位男士和一位女士。

Together.

一起。

Only.

只有。

Ever.

永远。

So, same-sex and gender nonconformist couples just disappear.

因此，同一性别和 不顺从一般公认信念的搭档不会被看见。

In most mainstream international ballroom competitions,

在绝大多数主流的 国际交谊舞赛事，

same-sex couples are rarely recognized on the floor,

同一性别的搭档 很少会出现在比赛场上，

and in many cases,

在很多情况下，

the rules prohibit them completely.

规则完全阻止了他们参与。

TC: Try this: Google-image, "professional Latin dancer,"

TC：试试看这个：谷歌图片， “职业拉丁舞者，”

and then look for an actual Latino person.

搜索显示出真正的拉丁裔人。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You'll be there for days.

你在拉丁舞赛事现场很多天。

What you will get is page after page of white, straight Russian couples

会看到很多白的，异性恋的 俄罗斯舞蹈搭档们

spray-tanned to the point of mahogany.

不断地往身上喷美黑产品。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

There are no black people, there are no Asians,

那里没有黑人， 没有亚洲人，

no mixed-race couples,

没有跨种族的搭档，

so basically, non-white people just disappeared.

基本上来说， 不是白种人的舞者都消失不见了。

Even within the white-straight- couple-only paradigm --

即使是在只有白的，直的，搭档 的情况下 --

she can't be taller,

她不能比较高，

he can't be shorter.

他不能比较矮。

She can't be bolder,

她不能头发稀少，

he can't be gentler.

他不能太温雅。

If you were to take a ballroom dance

如果你要去跳交谊舞

and translate that into a conversation

然后把舞蹈变成一个对话

and drop that into a movie,

然后放入一个电影之中，

we, as a culture, would never stand for this.

我们，作为一种文化， 绝对不会容忍这样的表现。

He dictates, she reacts.

他主导，她跟从。

No relationship -- gay, straight or anything --

没有关系 -- 同性恋， 异性恋或是其它什么的 --

that we would regard as remotely healthy or functional looks like that,

我们会后悔这样太过健康和正确了，

and yet somehow,

然而，

you put it on prime time, you slap some makeup on it,

当它被放在黄金时间， 在舞者脸上化好妆，

throw the glitter on, put it out there as movement, not as text,

身上喷些闪粉， 以动作的形式展现出来，而不是文字，

and we, as a culture,

我们，作为一种文化，

tune in and clap.

接受并为此鼓掌。

We are applauding our own absence.

我们在为自己的缺席喝彩。

Too many people have disappeared from partner dancing.

太多人没有参与到交谊舞中。

(Music)

（音乐）

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

JF: Now, you just saw two men dancing together.

JF：现在，你看到了 两位男士共舞。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And you thought it looked ...

你会觉得这看起来 ...

a little strange.

有些奇怪，

Interesting -- appealing, even --

有趣 -- 引人注意，甚至 --

but a little bit odd.

但是有点奇怪。

Even avid followers of the same-sex ballroom circuit can attest

即使是想要学习同一性别 交谊舞巡回的也会认为

that while same-sex partner dancing can be dynamic and strong and exciting,

即使同一性别的舞者搭档是 充满活力的，有趣的，

it just doesn't quite seem to fit.

但看起来还是有些不搭。

Aesthetically speaking,

从美学的角度来说，

if Alida and I take the classic closed ballroom hold ...

如果爱丽达跟我做出 经典的交谊舞姿势 ...

this is considered beautiful.

会被认为是美丽的。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But why not this?

但为什么这样的就不是呢？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

See, the standard image that the leader must be larger and masculine

你看，标准的印象认为舞伴中的领导者 应该更加高大威武

and the follower smaller and feminine --

跟随的那位更加矮小和柔美 --

this is a stumbling point.

这就是障碍点。

TC: So we wanted to look at this from a totally different angle.

TC：因此，我们想从 完全不同的视角来看

So, what if we could keep the idea of lead and follow

如果我们能够保持关于 领导和跟从的看法

but toss the idea that this was connected to gender?

但是不要把这样的想法和性别挂钩？

Further, what if a couple could lead and follow each other

如果一对舞伴能够相互 领舞和跟从

and then switch?

然后交换？

And then switch back?

然后再交换？

What if it could be like a conversation,

这能不能像是一种对话，

taking turns listening and speaking, just like we do in life?

就像我们日常生活中那样 在听和说之间切换？

What if we could dance like that?

我们能够这样跳舞吗？

We call it "Liquid Lead Dancing."

我们称之为“流动领舞。”

JF: Let's try this with a Latin dance,

JF：让我们试一试用这样的方法 来跳一段拉丁舞，

salsa.

salsa舞。

In salsa, there's a key transitional step, called the cross-body lead.

在salsa舞中，有一个重要的步骤， 叫做十字交叉引导。

We use it as punctuation to break up the improvisation.

我们将它作为标点符号 来打破即兴创作。

It can be a little tricky to spot if you're not used to looking for it,

如果你不时常观看找寻 这有些难以识别，

so here it is.

就是这样。

One more time for the cheap seats.

再为坐的远的观众表演一次。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And here's the action one more time,

这是动作，再一次，

nice and slow.

很好，很慢。

Now, if we apply liquid-lead thinking to this transitional step,

现在，如果我们用流动领舞来想 这个过渡舞步，

the cross-body lead becomes a point

十字交叉引导变成了一个位置

where the lead and the follow can switch.

领舞和跟从的角色可以互换。

The person following can elect to take over the lead,

那个跟从的舞者可以在这 换位变成领舞者，

or the person leading can choose to surrender it,

那个领舞的人也可以选择 变成跟从的人，

essentially making it a counter-cross-body lead.

尤其是让它成为 反对十字交叉引导的领舞者。

Here's how that looks in slow motion.

这是慢动作。

And here's how it looked when we danced it in the opening dance.

这是在舞蹈开场时的舞步。

With this simple tweak, the dance moves from being a dictation

一个简单的扭动， 舞蹈从主导

to a negotiation.

变成了协商。

Anyone can lead. Anyone can follow.

任何人都能领舞。任何人都能跟从。

And more importantly, you can change your mind.

更重要的是， 你能改变你的看法。

Now, this is only one example of how this applies,

现在，这只是如何表现的 一个例子，

but once the blinkers come off, anything can happen.

一旦闪光灯关闭， 任何事都可能发生。

TC: Let's look at how Liquid Lead thinking could apply to a classic waltz.

TC：让我们来看看流动领舞的想法 如何在古典华尔兹上表现。

Because, of course,

因为，当然，

it isn't just a system of switching leads;

这不仅仅是交互领舞的系统；

it's a way of thinking

这是一种思维模式

that can actually make the dance itself more efficient.

能够让舞蹈本身变得更加高效。

So: the waltz.

华尔兹。

The waltz is a turning dance.

华尔兹是一个回旋舞蹈。

This means that for the lead,

对领舞的舞者来说 这意味着

you spend half of the dance traveling backwards,

你有一半的时间是倒退方向的，

completely blind.

完全看不见背后的一切。

And because of the follower's position,

因为跟舞的人的姿势，

basically, no one can see where they're going.

没人能够看到他们在做什么。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So you're out here on the floor,

你就在这里，

and then imagine that coming right at you.

然后想象发生的事。

JF: Raaaaaah!

JF: Raaaaaah!

(Laughter)

(笑声)

TC: There are actually a lot of accidents out there

TC：有很多以外可能发生

that happen as a result of this blind spot.

因为有盲点。

But what if the partners were to just allow for

但如果搭档仅仅想要

a switch of posture for a moment?

在某一个时间点变更一下姿势呢？

A lot of accidents could be avoided.

很多意外都是可以避免的。

Even if one person led the whole dance but allowed this switch to happen,

即使一个人领舞整个舞蹈 但是允许变更，

it would be a lot safer,

也是更加安全的，

while at the same time, offering new aesthetics into the waltz.

与此同时，给华尔兹舞 带来一些有趣的新美学。

Because physics doesn't give a damn about your gender.

因为物理原理不会根据你的性别改变。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

JF: Now, we've danced Liquid Lead in clubs, convention centers

JF：现在，我们用流动领舞方式 在俱乐部，会展中心

and as part of "First Dance," the play we created with Lisa,

作为“第一支舞”的一部分 这是我们和丽莎合作创作的，

on stages in North America and in Europe.

在北美和欧洲的舞台上表演。

And it never fails to engage.

这还从未失败过。

I mean, beyond the unusual sight of seeing two men dancing together,

我的意思是，在不常出现的 两位男士交谊舞中，

it always evokes and engages.

这总能唤起人们的参与。

But why?

但是为什么？

The secret lies in what made Lisa see our initial demonstration

这其中的秘密就是 丽莎看到我们最初的舞蹈展示

as "political."

是有“政治意义”的。

It wasn't just that we were switching lead and follow;

这不仅是两位舞者 交换领舞和跟从；

it's that we stayed consistent in our presence, our personality

这是我们一直以来坚持的 从表现上，个人的性格上

and our power, regardless of which role we were playing.

和我们的力量，不管我们处在哪个角色。

We were still us.

我们仍然是自己。

And that's where the true freedom lies --

那就是真正的自由所在 --

not just the freedom to switch roles,

而不仅仅是自由地交换角色，

but the freedom from being defined by whichever role you're playing,

而是自由决定自己想要 选择怎样的角色，

the freedom to always remain true to yourself.

做真实的自己的自由。

Forget what a lead is supposed to look like, or a follow.

忘记领舞或是跟从 看上去应该是怎样的。

Be a masculine follow

作为一个有男子气概的跟从

or a feminine lead.

或是一个女性娇柔的领舞。

Just be yourself.

做自己。

Obviously, this applies off the dance floor as well,

很显然，这也能够应用在 舞池之外，

but on the floor, it gives us the perfect opportunity

但舞池给了我们 完美的机会

to update an old paradigm, reinvigorate an old relic,

来升级一个旧的范例， 复兴古老的的遗迹，

and make it more representative of our era and our current way of being.

让它更具有有当今时代的代表性。

TC: Jeff and I dance partner dancing all the time with women and men

TC： 杰夫和我时常跟 男性和女性一起跳双人舞

and we love it.

我们很热爱这样做。

But we dance with a consciousness that this is a historic form

我们跳舞的时候意识到 这是一个历史格式

that can produce silence and produce invisibility

能够产生安静和隐形的影响

across the spectrum of identity that we enjoy today.

穿越我们当今所有的认知光谱。

We invented Liquid Lead

我们发明了流动领舞

as a way of stripping out all the ideas that don't belong to us

用这个方式来去除 本不属于我们的意识

and taking partner dancing back to what it really always was:

把交谊舞跳回本来该有的样子：

the fine art of taking care of each other.

彼此互相照顾的高雅艺术。

(Music)

(音乐)

(Applause)

（掌声）