How flags unite (and divide) us | Michael Green

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

翻译人员: Jiasi Hao 校对人员: Lipeng Chen

In 1989,

在 1989 年，

an artist by the name of Dread Scott,

德拉得 · 斯科特（Dread Scott），

who has also graced the TED stage,

一位也曾在 TED 舞台上 亮相过的艺术家，

在芝加哥创造了一件艺术作品。

created a piece of art in Chicago,

where he simply placed an American flag on the ground

他只是简单地把美国国旗铺在地上，

and then invited you the viewer to go and stand on that flag

随后邀请人们前往参观， 站在那面旗帜上，

and record how it felt in a journal.

并在一本日记本上 记录下自己的感受。

And to me, one of the most powerful things written in that journal, in essence, says,

对我来说，那本日记中 最强有力的一段文字是：

"Why are we so OK

“为什么我们可以接受

with homeless people,

无家可归的人，

with human beings laying on the ground,

那些有生命的人躺在地上，

but not flags?"

而非旗帜？”

And to some of you, this piece of art is quite disturbing.

这幅作品可能会让 你们有些人感到不舒服。

And that's kind of the point of this talk --

不过这似乎是 我此次演讲的意义——

not to upset you or to make you mad

不是为了让你感到不爽或生气，

而是向你证明 旗帜有着令人难以置信的力量，

but to prove to you that flags have an incredible power,

and that even if you think you don't care about flags, you do.

即使你认为自己不在乎它， 但其实你是在乎的，

You know you do.

而且你知道这一点。

好了。

Alright.

在演讲的最后， 我希望你能受到些许启发，

By the end of it, I hope that you're inspired

to go out and harness this power of flags and fight for a better world.

走出去，驾驭旗帜的力量， 并为更美好的世界而奋斗。

但在那之前，

But before we get there,

we're going to start on the opposite end of the spectrum.

我们需要从其对立面开启这一话题。

And before I show you the next stuff, I need to say that anything I show here

在我展示下一张幻灯片前， 我需要说明：

我在这儿展示的任何东西， 都不代表个人的支持或认可，

is not an endorsement,

it's usually quite the opposite.

通常是相反的情况。

But more than anything, what I want to do is create a space here

但最重要的是， 我想要在这儿创建一个空间——

where we can look at these flags, these designs,

我们可以看看 那些旗帜、它们的设计，

and examine how they make us feel.

并且研究它们到底给予了 我们什么样的感受。

我们将要谈论自己的情绪。

We're going to talk about our emotions.

Is that OK with everybody?

大家没问题吧？

OK.

好。

Are you ready for your first flag?

准备好面对你的第一面旗了吗？

Cool, we'll start with an easy one.

很好，我们先从轻松的开始。

That was a joke. (Laughs)

开个玩笑。 （笑声）

So, some of you may be a little bit uneasy sitting in a room with this.

在座有些人和这面旗共处一室， 或许会产生一些不安的情绪。

I'm certainly feeling uneasy standing in front of it.

我站在它前面绝对感到了不安。

Some of you may be feeling a little bit of pride.

而你们有些人 可能会感到骄傲自豪。

And that's understandable. This is Texas. This is not a rare sight, is it?

这是可以理解的。这是德克萨斯州。 这并不罕见，对吧？

But let's start with the facts.

不过让我们先明确一些事实。

So this is not the Confederate flag. OK?

首先，这不是联邦旗。

This is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia

这是由罗伯特 · 李将军 （Robert E. Lee）

领导的北弗吉尼亚军队的战旗。

led by General Robert E. Lee.

所以下次有人告诉你 这是他们的文化遗产，

So next time someone tells you that this is their heritage,

unless their family fought for that very specific militia,

除非他们的家族有人 曾加入那只军队，参与过战争，

they're wrong, alright?

不然他们的说辞是错误的。

And you have a flag expert's permission to tell them so.

你可以这样告诉他们， 因为旗帜专家是这么说的。

This flag rose into prominence during the mid-1950s and '60s

在 1950 年代和 60 年代中期， 随着民权运动不断发展，

as a response to the growing Civil Rights Movement.

作为一种回应， 该旗帜的重要性日渐突显。

And then of course today,

当然，到了今天，

it has come to represent the Confederacy to most of us.

这面旗在我们大多数人眼里 代表的是南方联盟。

But I shouldn't have to remind you what the Confederacy is.

但我应该不用提醒你什么是联盟。

It was a rogue nation

那是一个流氓般的国度，

that rose up against the United States,

反对美利坚合众国，

waged war on the US,

首先发起了战争，

曾在历史的某个时刻，

and at one point in time,

this was one of the most un-American things you could have.

这是一件绝非美国的人会做的事。

But yet, this flag is protected

不过，这面旗帜

受到了在佛罗里达、佐治亚州、 南卡罗来纳州、

by the same laws that protect the United States flag

in the states of Florida, Georgia,

密西西比州和路易斯安那州

South Carolina, Mississippi and Louisiana.

保护美国国旗的相同法律的保护。

But let's pick on Georgia for a second, shall we?

让我们看看佐治亚州，怎么样？

So in 1956,

在 1956 年，

a few years after desegregation was mandated in public schools,

在公立学校要求取消 种族隔离的几年后，

Georgia changed their state flag to this.

佐治亚州的州旗被换成了这个。

I think everyone watching can agree

我想你们每个看着 这面旗的人都会同意，

that this was not meant to be a flag that every Georgian was proud to fly

这不是一面 每个佐治亚州人会

自豪的挂在在门外的旗帜，对吧？

outside of their home, was it?

No.

是的。

这就像在 1950 至 1960 年代中期 竖立起的联盟雕像一般，

Just like all of the Confederate statues erected in the mid-1950s and '60s,

this was meant to be a symbol of who was in charge

这象征着谁手握权力，

and who was not.

而谁手中无权。

This remained the flag of Georgia

这面旗帜作为佐治亚州的州旗

until the year 2001,

一直保留到了 2001 年，

and in that year, they changed their flag

在那一年，他们将旗帜换成了

to this.

这个。

现在，作为一个旗帜专家， 我能告诉你：这面旗奇丑无比。

Now, as a flag expert, I can tell you: this is officially ugly.

OK? It's OK to laugh at this flag.

是吧？你想笑也没关系。

It's ugly, and because it's so ugly,

这面旗很丑，因为它太丑了，

that's one of the reasons they changed it just two years later.

所以仅在两年后， 这成为了更改旗帜设计的原因之一。

They had a referendum

他们进行了一次公投，

where they got to choose between that thing

要人们从这两面旗帜中选一个。

and then what is now the current flag of Georgia.

于是这面旗 成了现在佐治亚州的州旗。

Now some of you might be wondering,

在座的有些人可能会想：

"Wait a second, Michael --

等等，迈克尔——

if that before wasn't the Confederate flag,

如果之前的那个不是联盟旗，

what was the Confederate flag?"

那什么是联盟旗？

Georgia flies the first flag of the Confederate States of America

乔治亚州直至今日依旧悬挂着 美利坚联盟国的

to this day.

第一面旗帜。

They just slapped their state seal on it.

他们只是在那上面盖了个 代表乔治亚州的章。

Well, let's go back to our emotions for a second.

让我们平复一下情绪。

That didn't punch you in the gut as much as the other one did, did it?

这并没有像另一面旗帜一样 那么令人厌烦，不是吗？

Right?

对吧？

And that's why I love flags.

这就是我喜欢旗帜的原因。

They are the simplest pieces of design,

它们有着最简单的设计，

通常只是两三种颜色，

usually just two or three colors,

just some bars or stripes.

外加一些条纹。

But yet, they can invoke the deepest emotions within us.

但它们仍然能唤起 我们内心最深处的情感。

They'll make us swell with pride

它们会让我们变得 骄傲自满，

or burn with hatred.

或是激发仇恨。

我们会为了一面旗帜而亡，

We will die for a flag

or even kill for one.

甚至是残杀他人。

One of my favorite designers, his name is Wally Olins,

我最爱的设计师之一名为 沃利 · 奧林斯（Wally Olins），

they call him the father of nation branding,

人们称他为国家品牌之父。

and he's quoted as saying

他曾说过：

that "Everyone wants to belong,

“每个人都想要有归属感，

and then they want to display symbols of belonging."

于是他们就会想要展示 归属的标志。”

And it's crazy that these pieces of cloth that are just sewn together or dyed

这些被缝到一起 或是被染上颜色的布料

come to be such a sacred item,

变成了如此神圣的东西， 这真的很疯狂。

and that's because they become parts of our identity.

而这是因为这些经过处理的布料 成为了代表我们身份的一部分。

They are powerful tools to unify

它们是强大的工具——

可以团结个体，也可以分裂众人。

but equally powerful tools to divide.

你们准备好看下一面旗了吗？

You ready for the next flag?

Right.

好，

Take a moment.

花点时间，

Really examine how you felt when this hit the screen.

切实体会一下你在屏幕上 看到这面旗时的感受。

I'm going to change the slide pretty quickly

我会快速地切换这张幻灯片，

so you don't take pictures of me in front of this one.

防止你们把这面旗 当做背景给我拍照。

（笑声）

(Laughter)

好吗？

Alright?

那么，一战后的德国

So Germany after World War I,

it was in a pretty bad state,

处在一个相当糟糕的状态，

and a young Adolf Hitler had a lot of -- let's call them -- "ideas,"

一位名叫阿道夫 · 希特勒的 年轻人有很多所谓的“想法”，

of how Germany got to where they'd gotten

即德国是如何沦落到这个地步的，

以及如何摆脱这个困境。

and how to get them out.

He spent entire chapters in his book "Mein Kampf,"

他在自传《我的奋斗》中—— 我不是很推荐大家去阅读——

用了整个章节

which I don't recommend reading,

about how Germany lost World War I

详述了德国为何在一战中失利，

partially because the British had better graphic design

部分原因是英国人 更善于图形设计

and better propaganda.

以及政治宣传。

So, as the Nazi Party rose,

所以当纳粹党崛起时，

Hitler created one of the thickest brand guides I've ever seen.

希特勒创作了我所见过的 最厚的一本品牌指南——

It's thicker than most company brand guides today,

它比如今绝大多数公司的 品牌指南都要厚，

and in it, he details titles and uniforms

而且在其中， 他详细描述了头衔、制服，

and lots and lots of flags.

以及很多很多旗帜的使用。

Hitler knew the power of flags.

希特勒知道旗帜的力量。

He says in "Mein Kampf,"

他在《我的奋斗》中写道：

"The new flag ... should prove effective as a large poster,

“新的旗帜……应该 和大尺寸宣传海报一样有效，

[because] in hundreds of thousands of cases

因为在成百上千的情况下，

a really striking emblem may be the first cause

一个真正醒目的标志

可能是人们对一项运动 产生兴趣的首要原因。”

of awakening interest in a movement."

他到底是一名艺术家。

He was an artist, after all.

非常了解视觉识别和制服的力量

He knew the power of visual identity and uniforms

能够重新激发德国人的身份认同。

could reignite the German identity.

And to millions of Germans, this was a welcome sign.

对于上百万德国人来说， 这曾是一个备受欢迎的标志。

But of course, this was also a mark of death to others.

但当然，对于其他人来说， 这也曾是一个死亡的标志。

We don't often think of flags as weapons,

我们通常不认为旗帜是一种武器，

but like the Confederate battle flag,

但是就像联盟国的战旗，

the Germans used their flag

德国人也用他们的旗帜

to make an out-group feel unwelcome

来使外族感到自己不受欢迎，

and less than.

而且低等。

要知道，当你设计了一面旗， 同时也做了两件事：

You see, when you create a flag, you immediately do two things:

you create an in-group,

你创造了圈内群体，

a group that's meant to be represented by the symbol,

一个被旗帜所代表的群体，

but then, inevitably, you create an out-group.

但不可避免的是， 你也创造了一个圈外群体。

And usually, that's subtle.

而且通常，这难以发现。

It's a byproduct.

这是一个副产物，

It's usually not the intent.

也不是旗帜诞生的意图。

But the Germans were very clear as to who was represented by the swastika

但是德国人非常明确 卐 代表了哪些人，

and who was not.

谁又被排除在其外。

In 1935, Jewish people were banned from flying German flags.

在 1935 年， 犹太人被禁止悬挂德国国旗。

And in this way,

如此一来，

the Germans, maybe more than any other time in history,

德国人可能比历史上的任何时候

used the dual power of flags

都更能使用旗帜的双重力量

to unite but also to divide.

来制造团结，同时也制造了分裂。

Flags were used as identity weapons.

旗帜被用作了身份武器。

And now, in 2019, the Nazi flag is banned from being flown

如今，在 2019 年， 在德国、奥地利、匈牙利、

俄罗斯和乌克兰的任何人

by anyone in Germany

and anyone in Austria, in Hungary, in Russia and in Ukraine.

都被禁止悬挂纳粹旗帜。

想想看，

Think about that.

这只是一块布，却被下了禁令。

It's a piece of cloth, but it's banned.

表面上，这听起来很夸张。

On its face, that sounds crazy.

But I don't think anyone in this room would disagree

但我认为我们在座的所有人

都会认同说：这可能是件好事。

that it's probably good.

Sounds a lot like a weapon.

听起来真的很像一种武器。

As a vexillologist,

作为一名旗帜研究人员，

sometimes the most interesting thing about a flag

有时候一面旗最有意思的地方

is not so much its design,

并非是其设计，

而是与这面旗相关的法律。

but it's those laws around the flag.

For instance,

比如，

in India, to create an Indian flag,

在印度， 为了制造一面印度国旗，

you must use a hand-spun cloth named "khadi."

你必须使用一种 名为 khadi 的手纺布。

If you make a flag out of anything else,

如果你用其它布料制造国旗，

you could go to jail for up to three years.

可能会背叛入狱多达三年。

It's crazy.

这太疯狂了。

Here in Texas,

在这里，德克萨斯州，

we've all heard

我们都听说过

that the Texas flag is the only state flag that can fly at the same height

只有德克萨斯的州旗 才能上升至同美国国旗

as the US, flag, right?

一样的高度，对吧？

因为在我们成为一个州 之前是一个国家。

Because we were a nation before we were a state.

Who here has heard that?

在座谁听到过这个说法？

Yeah.

对吧。

Well, I'm here to tell you that is completely false. OK?

而我在这里要说的是， 这个说法完全是错的。

首先，我们并非是唯一一个 有着国家历史身份的州。

First of all, we were not the only state that was a nation before joining up.

And secondly, all state flags can fly at the same height as the US flag

其次，根据美国的国旗法规，

所有州旗都能上升至 同美国国旗一样的高度。

according to the US flag code.

And I don't have to ask you how you feel about this one, right?

我不需要问你 你的感受如何，对吧？

Most of us grew up pledging allegiance to this every morning,

我们大多数人成长的过程中， 每日清晨都效忠国旗，

knowing we should never let it touch the ground, etc.

并且知道我们 不能让国旗掉到地上，等等。

We take our flag code very seriously here in the United States.

在美国，我们真的 非常重视国旗法规。

You remember, recently some NFL players kneeling during the national anthem.

最近一些职业橄榄球大联盟（NFL） 运动员在播放国歌时跪下。

It was a big controversy.

这引发了一场巨大争议。

They were breaking the flag code.

因为他们违反了国旗法规。

It states during the national anthem,

国旗法规定在国歌播放期间，

stand at attention, hand at the heart, etc.

人们需要立正， 并将手放在心脏上，等等。

But what was fascinating to me as a vexillologist

但对我来说，作为一名旗帜专家， 最令我着迷的是，

is that I didn't see anyone getting upset

我没有看到任何人 因运动员此举的发生

when something like this happens.

而不安和生气。

The flag code says, "The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally,

国旗法规同样规定： 国旗永不应该被水平放置，

but always aloft and free."

而始终应该自由悬挂。

So sometimes during the exact same national anthem,

但有时候， 在播放同一首国歌的时候，

this was being done, and no one's upset.

你会看到这样的场景， 然而没有人为此不满。

Or this. This happens all the time.

或是这样，这时常发生。

The flag code is clear:

国旗法规明确规定：

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or on an athletic uniform."

国旗不可被用于 服装设计或是运动员制服。

This is Texas A&M baseball,

这是德克萨斯州 M&A 棒球队，

我不是想给他们招惹麻烦， 但这样的事时常发生，

not to get them in trouble, but this happens all the time,

尤其在 11 月。

especially in November.

I'm sure, I can almost guarantee when you leave here tonight,

我几乎可以保证， 你今晚在离开这里的时候，

you will see on the back of someone's car or truck

会在某人的私家车， 或货车背后

a black and white American flag with a blue stripe,

看到黑白色的美国国旗， 上面有着一根蓝条，

a thin blue line, right?

一根细蓝条。

Blue Lives Matter.

“Blue Lives Matter” （警察的命也是命）。

这行为在各种程度上 都违反了国旗法规。

That breaks the flag code in multiple ways.

But all of these things are done with the best intent.

但是所有这些事情的发生， 都源于人们最美好的初衷。

No one's here to argue that.

我们没有人会反对这点。

But of course they break a section of the flag code

但当然，他们违反了国旗法中

titled "Respect for the Flag,"

“尊重国旗”这一章节，

所以如果你把国旗 放在了你的制服上，

so by putting this on your uniform,

you are legally disrespecting the flag.

在法律上你就是不尊重国旗。

And what I find interesting

而我发现，很有意思的是，

is that those NFL players kneeling during the anthem

那些 NFL 运动员 在播放国歌时下跪，

and the people who would put Blue Lives Matters stickers on their car

以及那些会把 Blue Lives Matter 贴纸贴在车上的人，

两者在一个很大的问题上意见相左。

are both on the opposite end of a very big issue,

but they're both breaking the exact same law,

不过他们同时在违反同样的法律，

a law that is 100 percent unenforceable.

一个零执行率的法律。

In fact, it was Dread Scott's piece of art in 1989

实际上，正是德拉得 · 斯科特 于 1989 年创造那个艺术作品

that led the Supreme Court to rule that the flag code is just a guideline.

导致最高法院裁定 国旗法只是一个准则。

You cannot be prosecuted for breaking the flag code.

如果违反国旗法， 你是不能被起诉的。

You cannot be forced to be patriotic.

你也不能被强行爱国。

不过如果你无法执行 这些关于国旗的各种法律，

So why, then, have all of these little laws around how we use our flag

那你为什么要制定它们？

if you can't enforce them?

And that's because a nation

这是因为，

国家是一个脆弱的集体概念，

is a fragile collective idea.

It only exists in our minds.

仅存在于我们的思想中。

Can I see this? Thank you.

我能看看这个吗？谢谢。

Sometimes a flag is the only tangible symbol of that idea.

有时，一面旗帜是那个概念 唯一的可见标志。

Right? Our unity is sometimes only held together by literal threads.

对吧？我们的团结有时候 真的只是靠旗帜来维系。

And that's powerful.

那是十分强大的。

The flag code is meant to preserve and protect that fragile idea,

国旗法规存在的意义是为了 保留并保护那个脆弱的概念，

while also protecting your right to break it.

同时也在保护你 违反国旗法规的权力。

And that's what's special about the United States, right?

这就是我们美国的 特别之处，对吧？

而且这也是 我们国旗的独特之处。

And that's what's unique about our flag.

Our flag is amazing.

我们的国旗真的很棒。

It has changed more than any other flag in the world.

在世界范围内， 其设计外观的变化次数是最多的。

It's the flag code that says when a new state is created,

这也是国旗法规的规定： 当有一个新州诞生，

a star shall be added to the union of the flag,

应当在国旗的合众群星中， 加入一颗星，

而且这一添星流程 应当在七月的第四天进行。

and such addition shall take place on the fourth day of July.

Our flag is unique because it is meant to grow as we grow.

我们的国旗是独一无二的， 因为随着我们的壮大，它也注定会成长。

By design and by law,

不论依据设计，还是法律，

it is meant to change with us.

我们的国旗注定 跟随我们的国家命运而改变。

It's a living symbol of our individuality,

这是代表了众多星星中

our diversity in the stars

蕴含的个性、多样性，

and our unity.

还有团结的一个鲜活标志。

We have a gift in the United States to have a flag that is inclusive.

这是一份礼物——我们美国有着 这样一面具有包容性的国旗。

If the Nazi flag was an identity weapon,

如果纳粹旗帜曾是身份武器，

美国国旗，仅就设计而言， 就已经站在前者的对立面了。

the United States flag, by design alone, stands in direct contrast.

And I have to say, as a vexillologist in 2019,

我不得不说， 作为一名旗帜专家，在 2019 年，

using this flag

使用这面旗

作为一种身份武器来对抗任何人

as an identity weapon against anyone

disrespects it far more than letting it touch the ground

都是对这面国旗的不尊重—— 这远比让国旗触地，

or any one of the other little laws that we break every day.

或是每天都在发生的任何一种 违反法规的情况都要严重。

Right?

对吧？

这面国旗是我们团结的象征。

This flag is a symbol of our unity.

We should never use this as a weapon against someone else.

我们永远不应该利用这面旗帜 作为武器，来对抗他人。

I resonate so deeply with the person who wrote in Dread Scott's journal,

我与在德拉得 · 斯科特的日记本上 写下这段话的人产生了深刻的共鸣：

"We should never value the symbol over the thing that it symbolizes.

“我们永远不应该视符号的价值 高于该符号所象征事物的价值。

We should never value a piece of cloth over a human life."

我们永远不应该认为一面旗帜 比一个人的生命更重要。”

如果你要将旗帜变成武器，

And if you're ever going to use a piece of cloth as a weapon,

you should never use this one,

你永远不应该使用这面（美国）国旗，

not when it has always had room for more stars.

更何况这面旗上 一直为更多的星星留有空间。

Hopefully by now, you've felt the power of flags,

希望现在你已经感受到了旗帜的力量，

and you can see what they can do.

也看到了那些旗帜的可能性。

So what if we harnessed that power,

要是我们能驾驭这股力量，

and we used it to fight for something greater?

并为更伟大的共同事业而奋斗会怎样？

This is the flag of Earth,

这是地球的旗帜，

designed by Oskar Pernefeldt of Sweden.

由瑞典人奥斯卡 · 佩内费尔特 （Oskar Pernefeldt）设计。

Just imagine with me for a second:

和我一起想象一下：

What if we celebrated our humanity

如果我们高歌人类的程度

as much if not more

与呼喊我们国家的程度

than we celebrate our nationalities?

一致，甚至更多呢？

As we become a spacefaring civilization and we go off into the stars,

当我们变为一种太空文明， 潜入星空，

what do our nations mean anyway

当你站在火星或其它星球的表面，

when you're standing on the surface of Mars or any other planet?

我们的国家还代表什么？

And then of course, back here on Earth,

当然，回到地球，

as our planet is facing a climate crisis,

当我们的星球面临气候危机，

as our climate could be unlivable in our children or grandchildren's lifetime,

当我们赖以生存的气候环境 在我们的子孙年代变得不宜居住时，

I believe we need a strong symbol, a flag,

我相信我们需要 一个强有力的标志，一面旗帜，

to unite us to fight,

团结人类共同奋斗，

not just as nations,

不仅作为国家，

but as a species.

而是作为一个物种。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）