An entertainment icon on living a life of meaning | Norman Lear

翻译人员: 易帆 余 校对人员: Jieyi Ding

Eric Hirshberg: So I assume that Norman doesn't need much of an introduction,

艾瑞克·利德尔： 我想大家都很熟悉诺曼了，不需要太多的介绍，

but TED's audience is global,

但是TED的观众来自全球，

it's diverse,

是个多元的群体，

so I've been tasked with starting with his bio,

所以我被要求从介绍他的生平开始，

which could easily take up the entire 18 minutes.

这轻易就能用完整个18分钟。

So instead we're going to do 93 years in 93 seconds or less.

所以我们决定用93秒或更少的时间 来介绍诺曼的这93年。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You were born in New Hampshire.

你生于新罕布什尔州。

Norman Lear: New Haven, Connecticut.

诺曼·李尔：是纽黑文，康涅狄格州。

EH: New Haven, Connecticut.

艾瑞克：是纽黑文，康涅狄格州。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

NL: There goes seven more seconds.

诺曼：这就过去7秒了。

EH: Nailed it.

艾瑞克：你做到了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You were born in New Haven, Connecticut.

你生于纽黑文，康涅狄格州。

Your father was a con man -- I got that right.

你的父亲是个行骗者——这次我对了。

He was taken away to prison when you were nine years old.

在你九岁的时候他被带走去了监狱。

You flew 52 missions as a fighter pilot in World War II.

在二战中你是一位飞行员 执行了52次任务。

You came back to --

你回到——

NL: Radio operator.

诺曼：是报务员。

EH: You came to LA to break into Hollywood,

艾瑞克：你来到洛杉矶闯入了好莱坞，

first in publicity, then in TV.

首先当宣传，接着是在电视领域。

You had no training as a writer, formally,

你是一位没有接受过 正式训练的作家，

but you hustled your way in.

但你闯出了你的路。

Your breakthrough, your debut,

你的突破，你的首秀，

was a little show called "All in the Family."

是一部电视剧《全家福》。

You followed that up with a string of hits

紧接着你拍了一系列

that to this day is unmatched in Hollywood:

至今都在好莱坞无与伦比的电视剧：

"Sanford and Son," "Maude," "Good Times,"

《桑福德和儿子》，《Maude》，《好时光》，

"The Jeffersons," "One Day at a Time,"

《杰佛逊一家》，《随遇而安》，

"Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman,"

《玛丽·哈特曼》，

to name literally a fraction of them.

这里只提到了一部分。

Not only are they all commercially --

这些电视剧不仅在商业上——

(Applause)

（掌声）

Not only are they all commercially successful,

它们不仅都获得了商业上的成功，

but many of them push our culture forward

其中很多电视剧也 推动了文化的发展，

by giving the underrepresented members of society

让社会中代表性不足的群体

their first prime-time voice.

首次在黄金时段发声。

You have seven shows in the top 10 at one time.

你曾有七部电视剧同时在收视率前十。

At one point,

你一度吸引了

you aggregate an audience of 120 million people per week

一亿两千万的的观众

watching your content.

每周观看你的电视剧。

That's more than the audience for Super Bowl 50,

这甚至超过了每年一度的超级杯

which happens once a year.

在2015年的观众数。

NL: Holy shit.

诺曼：哇靠。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

EH: And we're not even to the holy shit part.

艾瑞克：我们甚至还没有说到 令人惊叹的哇靠部分。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You land yourself on Richard Nixon's enemies list --

你使自己成为理查德·尼克松 名单上的敌人——

he had one.

他有这么一份。

That's an applause line, too.

这也值得大家的掌声。

(Applause)

（掌声）

You're inducted into the TV Hall of Fame on the first day that it exists.

你在名单曝光第一天 就被列入了电视名人堂。

Then came the movies.

接下来说说电影。

"Fried Green Tomatoes,"

《油炸绿蕃茄》，

"The Princess Bride," "Stand By Me,"

《公主新娘》，《伴我同行》，

"This Is Spinal Tap."

《摇滚万岁》。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Again, just to name a fraction.

这里还是只提了一部分。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Then you wipe the slate clean,

然后你开创了"三幕剧架构" 横扫了电影界，

start a third act as a political activist focusing on protecting the First Amendment

从政时致力于保护第一修正案，

and the separation of church and state.

坚持政教分离。

You start People For The American Way.

你建立了美国之道团体。

You buy the Declaration of Independence

你买下了独立宣言，

and give it back to the people.

然后把它归还给人民。

You stay active in both entertainment and politics

你到93岁高龄

都还一直活跃在娱乐界和政界，

until the ripe old of age of 93,

when you write a book

然后你开始写书，

and make a documentary about your life story.

并且制作了一部关于你人生的纪录片。

And after all that,

经过了所有这些，

they finally think you're ready for a TED Talk.

他们终于觉得你准备好 做一个TED演讲了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

NL: I love being here.

诺曼：很高兴来到这里。

And I love you for agreeing to do this.

也很高兴你同意做这个访谈。

EH: Thank you for asking. It's my honor.

艾瑞克：谢谢你的邀请。我的荣幸。

So here's my first question.

然后这是我的第一个问题。

Was your mother proud of you?

你的妈妈为你感到骄傲吗？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

NL: My mother ...

诺曼：我的妈妈……

what a place to start.

从这里开始啊。

Let me put it this way --

让我这样说吧——

when I came back from the war,

当我从战场上回来，

she showed me the letters that I had written her from overseas,

她给我看了我从海外寄给她的信，

and they were absolute love letters.

这些绝对都是情书。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

This really sums up my mother.

这确实概括形容了我妈妈。

They were love letters,

那些情书，

as if I had written them to --

仿佛我把它们写成那样一般——

they were love letters.

它们就是情书。

A year later I asked my mother if I could have them,

一年后我问妈妈， 我是否能拥有它们，

because I'd like to keep them all the years of my life ...

因为我想保存它们一生……

She had thrown them away.

她已经扔掉了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

That's my mother.

这就是我妈妈。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

The best way I can sum it up in more recent times is --

近期，我能总结的最好方式——

this is also more recent times --

这也是最近的事——

a number of years ago,

几年前，

when they started the Hall of Fame to which you referred.

当他们开始筹备 你刚刚提到的名人堂的时候。

It was a Sunday morning,

那是一个周日的早晨，

when I got a call from the fellow who ran the TV Academy of Arts & Sciences.

我接到了一个管理电视艺术 及科学学院朋友的电话。

He was calling me to tell me they had met all day yesterday

他打电话告诉我说， 他们昨天谈了一整天，

and he was confidentially telling me they were going to start a hall of fame

他跟我说，告诉你一个秘密， 我们将要成立一个名人堂，

and these were the inductees.

然后他告诉我入选者都有谁。

I started to say "Richard Nixon,"

我开头就说“理查德·尼克松”，

because Richard Nixon --

因为理查德·尼克松——

EH: I don't think he was on their list.

艾瑞克：我不认为他在名单上。

NL: William Paley, who started CBS,

诺曼：CBS之父威廉·佩利，

David Sarnoff, who started NBC,

创立NBC的大卫·沙诺夫，

Edward R. Murrow,

爱德华·默罗，

the greatest of the foreign correspondents,

最伟大的驻外记者，

Paddy Chayefsky --

帕迪·查耶夫斯基——

I think the best writer that ever came out of television --

我认为是电视界最好的编剧——

Milton Berle, Lucille Ball

米尔顿·伯利，露西·鲍尔，

and me.

还有我。

EH: Not bad.

艾瑞克：不错。

NL: I call my mother immediately in Hartford, Connecticut.

诺曼：我立刻打电话给 在哈特福德，康涅狄格州的妈妈。

"Mom, this is what's happened,

“妈妈，你知道吗，

they're starting a hall of fame."

他们要成立一个名人堂。“

I tell her the list of names and me,

我告诉她那些入选者的名字，还有我，

and she says,

然后她说，

"Listen, if that's what they want to do, who am I to say?"

”听着，如果他们要这么做， 我还能说什么？“

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

That's my Ma.

这就是我妈妈。

I think it earns that kind of a laugh

我觉得能这么好笑的原因是，

because everybody has a piece of that mother.

因为每个人的妈妈都有这样的一面。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

EH: And the sitcom Jewish mother is born, right there.

艾瑞克：情景喜剧中的 犹太人妈妈就这样诞生了。

So your father also played a large role in your life,

你的父亲在你的人生中 也扮演了重要的角色，

mostly by his absence.

大部分是因为他的缺席。

NL: Yeah.

诺曼：是。

EH: Tell us what happened when you were nine years old.

艾瑞克：告诉我们你九岁的时候发生了什么。

NL: He was flying to Oklahoma

诺曼：他当时要与三个人 一同飞去俄克拉何马州，

with three guys that my mother said,

我妈妈说，

"I don't want you to have anything to do with them,

”我不想你和那三个人有任何关系，

I don't trust those men."

我不相信他们。”

That's when I heard,

那时候我听到他说，

maybe not for the first time,

“别说了，珍妮特。我要去。”

"Stifle yourself, Jeanette, I'm going."

这大概不是我第一次听到了。

And he went.

然后他去了。

It turns out he was picking up some fake bonds,

结果他拿到了一些假债券，

which he was flying across the country to sell.

飞到全国各地做销售。

But the fact that he was going to Oklahoma in a plane,

但是他坐飞机去俄克拉何马州，

and he was going to bring me back a 10-gallon hat,

他要给我带回一个“十加仑“大檐帽，

just like Ken Maynard, my favorite cowboy wore.

就像我最喜欢的牛仔 肯· 梅德纳戴的那样——

You know, this was a few years after Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic.

你知道这是在很多年前 林德伯格穿越大西洋之后。

I mean, it was exotic that my father was going there.

我的意思是我爸爸 那时候去那儿很奇怪。

But when he came back,

但是当他回来的时候，

they arrested him as he got off the plane.

他一下飞机就被逮捕了。

That night newspapers were all over the house,

那一晚，屋里到处都是报纸，

my father was with his hat in front of his face,

我爸爸戴的帽子遮着他的脸，

manacled to a detective.

他被刑警铐上手铐。

And my mother was selling the furniture, because we were leaving --

我妈妈开始卖家具， 因为我们要离开——

she didn't want to stay in that state of shame,

她不想待在切尔西，马萨诸塞州

in Chelsea, Massachusetts.

生活在耻辱中。

And selling the furniture --

她在卖家具的时候——

the house was loaded with people.

屋里全都是人。

And in the middle of all of that,

在这些人当中，

some strange horse's ass put his hand on my shoulder and said,

有一个奇怪的蠢货 把手放到我的肩膀上，说：

"Well, you're the man of the house now."

”嗯，现在你是家中的男人了。“

I'm crying, and this asshole says, "You're the man of the house now."

我正在哭，而这个混蛋说， ”现在你是这个家里的男人了。“

And I think that was the moment

我想我就是从那时起

I began to understand the foolishness of the human condition.

开始理解到人性的愚蠢。

So ...

然后……

it took a lot of years to look back at it and feel it was a benefit.

我花了很多年重新审视它 并感觉到它的益处。

But --

但是——

EH: It's interesting you call it a benefit.

艾瑞克：你把它看作是有益的这很有趣。

NL: Benefit in that it gave me that springboard.

诺曼：益处在于它给了我一个出发点。

I mean that I could think

我的意思是我可以认为

how foolish it was to say to this crying nine-year-old boy,

对一个在哭泣的九岁男孩说 ”现在你是这个家里的男人了。“

"You're the man of the house now."

这样的行为很愚蠢。

And then I was crying, and then he said,

然后我还在哭，然后他说：

"And men of the house don't cry."

”一家之主是不能流泪的。“

And I ...

然后我……

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So ...

所以……

I look back, and I think

我回顾，然后我想

that's when I learned the foolishness of the human condition,

那个时候，我了解到了人性的愚蠢，

and it's been that gift that I've used.

之后我一直受益于这个礼物。

EH: So you have a father who's absent,

艾瑞克：所以你有一个缺席的父亲，

you have a mother for whom apparently nothing is good enough.

你有一个认为什么都不够好的母亲。

Do you think that starting out as a kid who maybe never felt heard

你觉不觉得，从一个感到 从未被倾听的孩子开始，

started you down a journey

一路走來，

that ended with you being an adult

这段旅程使你最后成为一个

with a weekly audience of 120 million people?

一周拥有一亿两千万收视观众的人？

NL: I love the way you put that question,

诺曼：我喜欢你问这个问题的方式，

because I guess I've spent my life wanting --

因为我猜，我已经花了一生的时间想——

if anything, wanting to be heard.

是否有什么是需要被倾听的。

I think --

我想——

It's a simple answer, yes,

这是个简单的答案，是，

that was what sparked --

就是这个激励了我——

well, there were other things, too.

嗯，也有别的。

When my father was away,

我爸爸不在的时候，

I was fooling with a crystal radio set that we had made together,

我摆弄着一个我们之前 一起做的矿石收音机，

and I caught a signal that turned out to be Father Coughlin.

我捕捉到一个信号结果是神父柯林。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Yeah, somebody laughed.

嗯，一些人笑了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But not funny,

但是这并不好笑，

this was a horse's --

这是一个蠢——

another horse's ass --

另一个蠢货——

who was very vocal about hating the New Deal

他激烈地表达对新政，

and Roosevelt and Jews.

对罗斯福，和对犹太人的厌恶。

The first time I ran into an understanding

那是我第一次意识到

that there were people in this world that hated me

这个世界上有人讨厌我

because I was born to Jewish parents.

就因为我父母是犹太人。

And that had an enormous effect on my life.

这对我的人生产生了巨大的影响。

EH: So you had a childhood

艾瑞克：你的童年

with little in the way of strong male role models,

缺少强大的男性榜样，

except for your grandfather.

除了你的爷爷。

Tell us about him.

跟我们说说他。

NL: Oh, my grandfather.

诺曼：哦，我的爷爷。

Well here's the way I always talked about that grandfather.

嗯，我总是这样谈论我的爷爷。

There were parades,

我还是个孩子的时候

lots of parades when I was a kid.

有游行，很多游行。

There were parades on Veteran's Day --

老兵节有游行——

there wasn't a President's Day.

不过总统日没有。

There was Abraham Lincoln's birthday,

亚伯拉罕·林肯的生日有，

George Washington's birthday

乔治·华盛顿的生日有，

and Flag Day ...

还有国旗日……

And lots of little parades.

也有很多小游行。

My grandfather used to take me

我爷爷以前会带我去，

and we'd stand on the street corner,

我们会站在街角，

he'd hold my hand,

他拉着我的手，

and I'd look up and I'd see a tear running down his eye.

我抬头会看到他流眼泪。

And he meant a great deal to me.

他对我来说意味着很多。

And he used to write presidents of the United States.

他以前会给美国总统写信。

Every letter started,

每封信都这样开始，

"My dearest, darling Mr. President,"

”我最最亲爱的总统先生，“

and he'd tell him something wonderful about what he did.

然后告诉他一些他做的了不起的事。

But when he disagreed with the President, he also wrote,

但是当他不同意 总统的决定时，他也写信。

"My dearest, darling Mr. President,

”我最最亲爱的总统先生，

Didn't I tell you last week ...?"

上星期我是不是跟你说过……？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I would run down the stairs every now and then

我经常往楼下跑，

and pick up the mail.

去拿信件。

我们当时住在 康涅狄格州纽黑文约克街的74号，

We were three flights up,

74 York Street, New Haven, Connecticut.

要上三段楼梯。

And I'd pick up a little white envelope reading, "Shya C. called at this address."

我会拿到一个小信封，上面写着 “住在这里的Shya C.”。

And that's the story I have told about my grandfather --

这就是我讲述过的 关于我爷爷的故事。

EH: They wrote him back on the envelopes --

艾瑞克：他们在信封上回信——

NL: They wrote back.

诺曼：他们回信了。

But I have shown them myself,

但我已经向他们坦白，

going way back to Phil Donahue and others before him,

从多年前的菲尔多纳休 还有在他之前的其他人，

literally dozens of interviews in which I told that story.

几乎每次的访谈中， 我都有提到那个故事，

This will be the second time I have said the whole story was a lie.

这将是我第二次说 这个故事是个谎言。

The truth was my grandfather took me to parades,

真相是我爷爷带我去游行，

we had lots of those.

我们去过很多次。

The truth is a tear came down his eye.

真相是他流泪了。

The truth is he would write an occasional letter,

真相是他偶尔会写一封信，

and I did pick up those little envelopes.

而我的确拿到了那些小信封。

But "My dearest darling Mr. President,"

但是“我最最亲爱的总统先生”，

all the rest of it,

和剩下的所有

is a story I borrowed from a good friend

都是一个我从好朋友那儿借鉴的故事，

whose grandfather was that grandfather who wrote those letters.

他的爷爷才是那个写了那些信的爷爷。

And, I mean, I stole Arthur Marshall's grandfather

我是说，我偷了 阿瑟·马歇尔的爷爷，

and made him my own.

把他变成了我自己的。

Always.

一直都是这样。

When I started to write my memoir --

当我开始写我的回忆录时——

"Even this --"

《甚至这些——》

How about that?

你怎么看这件事？

"Even This I Get to Experience."

<<甚至这些我都曾经历过>>

When I started to write the memoir

当我开始写回忆录时，

and I started to think about it,

我开始思考，

and then I --

然后我——

I --

我——

I did a reasonable amount of crying,

我真情流露地哭了，

and I realized how much I needed the father.

然后我意识到我是多么地需要“父亲”。

So much so that I appropriated Arthur Marshall's grandfather.

这么需要以至于我借用了 阿瑟·马歇尔的爷爷。

So much so, the word "father" --

这么需要“爸爸”——

I have six kids by the way.

顺便一提，我有六个孩子，

My favorite role in life.

“爸爸”是我生活中 最喜欢的角色，

It and husband to my wife Lyn.

还有身为我妻子，林， 的丈夫这个角色。

But I stole the man's identity because I needed the father.

但是我偷用了那个人的身份 因为我需要一个“爸爸“。

Now I've gone through a whole lot of shit

我经历了那么多悲惨的事，

and come out on the other side,

结果我站到了另一边，

and I forgive my father --

我原谅了我的爸爸——

the best thing I --

最好的事情——

the worst thing I --

最坏的事情——

The word I'd like to use about him and think about him is --

我想起他，形容他 想要用的词是——

he was a rascal.

他是一个混蛋。

The fact that he lied and stole and cheated

他说谎，偷窃，欺骗，

and went to prison ...

然后进了监狱……

I submerge that in the word "rascal."

我让这些都沉浸在 “混蛋”这个词中。

EH: Well there's a saying that amateurs borrow and professionals steal.

艾瑞克：人们常说，"外行借，内行偷"。

NL: I'm a pro.

诺曼：我是职业的。

EH: You're a pro.

艾瑞克：没错，你是职业的。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And that quote is widely attributed to John Lennon,

人们普遍认为这句话出自约翰·列侬，

but it turns out he stole it from T.S. Eliot.

但其实他是从艾略特那偷来的。

So you're in good company.

所以你有好同伴了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

EH: I want to talk about your work.

艾瑞克：我想谈谈你的成就。

Obviously the impact of your work has been written about

显然你的成就所带来的影响 已经被评论过，

and I'm sure you've heard about it all your life:

我相信你已经听过很多：

what it meant to people,

它对人们意味着什么，

what it meant to our culture,

它对我们的文化意味着什么，

you heard the applause when I just named the names of the shows,

当我刚才列举那些电视剧电影的时候 你听到了掌声，

you raised half the people in the room through your work.

你使这里半数的人起身致敬你的成就。

But have there ever been any stories about the impact of your work

有没有过什么关于你成就影响的故事

that surprised you?

使你感到惊讶呢？

NL: Oh, god --

诺曼：哦，上帝——

surprised me and delighted me from head to toe.

使我整个人都感到惊讶和欣喜。

There was "An Evening with Norman Lear" within the last year

去年有一个<<和诺曼·李尔的夜晚>> 的谈话节目，

that a group of hip-hop impresarios,

把一群嘻哈经理人，

performers and the Academy put together.

舞者和电视学会聚在一起。

The subtext of "An Evening with ..."

“和……的夜晚”的潜台词是：

was: What do a 92-year-old Jew --

一个92岁的犹太人——

then 92 --

已经92岁了——

and the world of hip-hop have in common?

和嘻哈界有什么共同点？

Russell Simmons was among seven on the stage.

拉塞尔·西蒙斯是台上的七人之一。

And when he talked about the shows,

当他谈到那些电视剧时，

he wasn't talking about the Hollywood,

他不是在谈论好莱坞

George Jefferson in "The Jeffersons,"

《杰佛逊一家》中的乔治·杰佛逊

or the show that was a number five show.

或是这个当时排名第五的电视剧。

He was talking about a simple thing that made a big --

他在谈论的是，一件简单的事情 产生了巨大的——

EH: Impact on him?

艾瑞克：对他产生了巨大的影响？

NL: An impact on him --

诺曼：对他的影响——

I was hesitating over the word, "change."

我在犹豫用“改变”这个词。

It's hard for me to imagine,

我很难想象，

you know, changing somebody's life,

你知道，改变某人的人生，

but that's the way he put it.

但是他是这么说的。

He saw George Jefferson write a check on "The Jeffersons,"

他看到乔治·杰佛逊 在《杰佛逊一家》中开了一张支票，

and he never knew that a black man could write a check.

而他从不知道一个黑人可以写支票。

And he says it just impacted his life so --

他说，这影响了他的人生——

it changed his life.

这改变了他的人生。

And when I hear things like that --

而当我听到这样的事情时——

little things --

这些微不足道的小事——

because I know that there isn't anybody in this audience

因为我知道这里的观众没有人

that wasn't likely responsible today for some little thing they did for somebody,

会在意他们为别人做过的小事。

whether it's as little as a smile or an unexpected "Hello,"

不管它小到是一个微笑 还是一个意想不到的“你好”，

that's how little this thing was.

那件事就是这么小。

It could have been the dresser of the set

有可能是梳妆者

who put the checkbook on the thing,

把支票簿放在了那上面，

and George had nothing to do while he was speaking, so he wrote it,

而乔治在说话的时候 无事可做便写了支票，

I don't know.

我不知道，

But --

但是——

EH: So in addition to the long list I shared in the beginning,

艾瑞克：所以除了我在一开始 提到的那些成就，

I should have also mentioned that you invented hip-hop.

我也应该提及说是你创造了嘻哈。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

NL: Well ...

诺曼：额……

EH: I want to talk about --

艾瑞克：我想谈谈——

NL: Well, then do it.

诺曼：嗯，那就加上吧。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

EH: You've lead a life of accomplishment,

艾瑞克：你走过了充满成就的一生，

but you've also built a life of meaning.

但同时你也造就了充满意义的一生。

And all of us strive to do both of those things --

我们所有人都在努力达成这两件事——

not all of us manage to.

不是所有人都能成功。

But even those of us who do manage to accomplish both of those,

但即使是那些 成功达成这两件事的人，

very rarely do we figure out how to do them together.

也极少能弄明白 如何同时达成它们。

You managed to push culture forward through your art

你成功用艺术推动了文化的前行，

while also achieving world-beating commercial success.

同时也取得了了惊人的商业成就。

How did you do both?

你是如何同时做到的？

NL: Here's where my mind goes when I hear that recitation of all I accomplished.

诺曼：这是我在听到 我所有的成就时想到的。

This planet is one of a billion,

这里是无数行星中的一颗，

they tell us,

他们告诉我们，

in a universe of which there are billions --

在这个宇宙中有几十亿——

billions of universes,

几十亿个宇宙，

billions of planets ...

几十亿颗行星……

which we're trying to save

我们在试图保护，

and it requires saving.

它也需要我们的保护。

But ...

但是……

anything I may have accomplished is --

我的任何成就——

my sister once asked me what she does about something

我姐姐曾问我，对于 在纽因顿，康涅狄格州发生的事情，

that was going on in Newington, Connecticut.

她做了些什么。

And I said, "Write your alderman or your mayor or something."

我说：“写信给市议员或者 市长或者别的什么。”

She said, "Well I'm not Norman Lear, I'm Claire Lear."

她说：“额，我不是诺曼·李尔， 我是克莱尔·李尔。”

And that was the first time I said what I'm saying,

然后那是我第一次说到 我现正在谈的这些东西，

I said, "Claire. With everything you think about what I may have done

我说：“克莱尔，你认为我做过的所有事

and everything you've done," --

和你做过的所有事，”——

she never left Newington --

她从未离开过纽因顿——

"can you get your fingers close enough

“当你考虑到地球宇宙等等这些大小的时候，

when you consider the size of the planet and so forth,

你即使把手指努力并拢，那缝隙也不足以

to measure anything I may have done to anything you may have done?"

衡量我做过的或者是你做过的事吗。“

So ...

所以……

I am convinced we're all responsible

我相信我们都能

for doing as much as I may have accomplished.

做到我也许达成了的。

And I understand what you're saying --

我理解你说的是什么——

EH: It's an articulate deflection --

艾瑞克：这是一个很明显的谎言——

NL: But you have to really buy into the size and scope

诺曼：但是你必须考虑到造物主造就的

of the creator's enterprise, here.

空间和大小，在这里。

EH: But here on this planet you have really mattered.

艾瑞克：但是在这里在地球上， 你真的很重要。

NL: I'm a son of a gun.

诺曼：我是个混蛋。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

EH: So I have one more question for you.

艾瑞克：我还有一个问题。

How old do you feel?

你觉得自己几岁了？

NL: I am the peer of whoever I'm talking to.

诺曼：我是任何和我交谈者的同龄人。

EH: Well, I feel 93.

艾瑞克：嗯，我觉得我93岁了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

NL: We out of here?

诺曼：结束了？

EH: Well, I feel 93 years old,

艾瑞克：嗯，我觉得我93岁了，

but I hope to one day feel as young as the person I'm sitting across from.

但是我希望有一天，我也能感觉 和坐在我对面的这个人一样年轻。

Ladies and gentlemen,

女士们先生们，

the incomparable Norman Lear.

致敬伟大的诺曼·李尔。

(Applause)

（掌声）

NL: Thank you.

诺曼：谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）