Sarah Ellis and Helen Tupper: The best career path isn't always a straight line | TED

230,983 views ใƒป 2021-06-11

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ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

00:00
Transcriber:
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ืชืจื’ื•ื: hila scherba ืขืจื™ื›ื”: Ido Dekkers
00:13
Helen Tupper: When we met at university 20 years ago,
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ื”ืœืŸ ื˜ืืคืจ: ื›ืฉื ืคื’ืฉื ื• ื‘ืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ื” ืœืคื ื™ 20 ืฉื ื”
00:16
we made for unlikely friends.
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ื ื”ืคื›ื ื• ืœื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื‘ื”ืคืชืขื”.
00:18
I'm an extrovert who gets involved in everything
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ืื ื™ ืื“ื ืžื•ื—ืฆืŸ ืฉืžืชืขืจื‘ ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ
00:20
and talks to anyone,
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ื•ืžื“ื‘ืจ ืขื ื›ืœ ืื—ื“,
00:23
Sarah Ellis: ... and I'm an introverted ideas person
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ืฉืจื” ืืœื™ืก: ื•ืื ื™ ืื“ื ืžื•ืคื ื ืขื ืจืขื™ื•ื ื•ืช
00:25
who finds extroverts energizing but a bit intimidating.
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ืฉืžื•ืฆื ืื ืฉื™ื ืžื•ื—ืฆื ื™ื ื›ื‘ืขืœื™ ืื ืจื’ื™ื” ืื‘ืœ ืžืขื˜ ืžืื™ื™ืžื™ื.
00:29
HT: Despite our differences, we both had an ambition to climb the ladder
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืœืžืจื•ืช ื”ื”ื‘ื“ืœื™ื ื‘ื™ื ื™ื ื•, ืœืฉืชื™ื ื• ื”ื™ืชื” ื”ืฉืื™ืคื” ืœื˜ืคืก ื‘ืกื•ืœื
00:33
and have a successful career.
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ื•ืœืคืชื— ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืžืฆืœื™ื—ื”.
00:36
SE: We were motivated by how far and how fast we could progress,
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ืฉืจื”: ื”ืชืžืจื™ืฅ ืฉืœื ื• ื”ื™ื” ื›ืžื” ืจื—ื•ืง ื•ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืจ ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช ืœื”ืชืงื“ื,
00:39
and we thought that our route to the top would look something a bit like this.
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ื•ื—ืฉื‘ื ื• ืฉื”ืžืกืœื•ืœ ืฉืœื ื• ืœืคืกื’ื” ื™ื™ืจืื” ื“ื™ ื“ื•ืžื” ืœื–ื”.
00:44
And in those first few years of work,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื•ืช ื”ืืœื• ืฉืœ ื”ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”,
00:46
we were all about promotions and pay rises.
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ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ืขืกื•ืงื•ืช ืœื’ืžืจื™ ื‘ืงื™ื“ื•ืžื™ื ื•ื”ืขืœืื•ืช ืฉื›ืจ.
00:48
We were preoccupied by the positions that we held
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ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ืžื•ื˜ืจื“ื•ืช ืžื”ืชืคืงื™ื“ื™ื ืฉื”ื—ื–ืงื ื•
00:51
and how senior our job titles sounded.
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ื•ื›ืžื” ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื™ื ืชื™ืื•ืจื™ ื”ืชืคืงื™ื“ ืฉืœื ื• ื ืฉืžืขื™ื.
00:54
And on the surface, everything seemed to be on track.
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ืขืœ ืคื ื™ื•, ื”ื›ืœ ื ืจืื” ืฉืžืชืงื“ื ื‘ืžืกืœื•ืœ.
00:57
But we started to get the sense
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืชื—ืœื ื• ืœืงื‘ืœ ืืช ื”ืชื—ื•ืฉื”
00:59
that the ladder might actually be holding us back.
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ืฉื”ืกื•ืœื ืื•ืœื™ ืืคื™ืœื• ืžืขื›ื‘ ืื•ืชื ื•.
01:02
The obvious next step wasn't always the most appealing,
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ื”ืฆืขื“ ื”ืžืชื‘ืงืฉ ื”ื‘ื ืœื ืชืžื™ื“ ื”ื™ื” ื”ืžื•ืฉืš ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
01:06
and we were both excited about exploring opportunities
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ื•ืฉืชื™ื ื• ื”ืชืจื’ืฉื ื• ืžื—ื™ืคื•ืฉ ื”ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช
01:08
that weren't necessarily based on what we'd done before.
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ืฉืœื ื‘ื”ื›ืจื— ื”ื™ื• ืžื‘ื•ืกืกื•ืช ืขืœ ืžื” ืฉืขืฉื™ื ื• ื‘ืขื‘ืจ.
01:12
It wasn't what we'd anticipated,
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ื–ื” ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืžื” ืฉืฆื™ืคื™ื ื• ืœื•,
01:15
but our careers had started to look and feel much more like this.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืฉืœื ื• ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœื”ื™ืจืื•ืช ื•ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื›ืžื• ื–ื”.
01:20
Squiggly.
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ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ื•ืช.
01:22
HT: A squiggly career is both full of uncertainty
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ืช ื”ื™ื ื’ื ืžืœืื” ื‘ืื™ ื•ื“ืื•ืช
01:25
and full of possibility.
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ื•ื’ื ืžืœืื” ื‘ืืคืฉืจื•ื™ื•ืช.
01:27
Change is happening all of the time.
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ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ืžืชืจื—ืฉ ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ.
01:30
Some of it is in our control,
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ื—ืœืงื• ื ืžืฆื ื‘ืฉืœื™ื˜ืชื ื•,
01:31
and some of it's not.
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ื•ื—ืœืงื• ืœื.
01:33
Success isn't one-size-fits-all.
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ื”ืฆืœื—ื” ื”ื™ื ืœื ืžื™ื“ื” ืื—ืช ืœื›ื•ืœื.
01:36
Our squiggles are as individual as we are.
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ื”ืฉืจื‘ื•ื˜ื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ื”ื ืคืจื˜ื ื™ื™ื ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ื›ืžื•ื ื•.
01:39
And for me, that's meant a career
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ื•ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœื™, ื–ื” ืืžืจ ืฉืงืจื™ื™ืจื”
01:41
where I've moved from working on foldable credit cards in one company --
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ืฉื‘ื” ืขื‘ืจืชื™ ืžืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืขืœ ื›ืจื˜ื™ืก ืืฉืจืื™ ืžืชืงืคืœื™ื ื‘ื—ื‘ืจื” ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช --
01:44
they didn't catch on --
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ื–ื” ืœื ืชืคืก --
01:46
to building and launching a loyalty app for another.
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ืœืœื‘ื ื•ืช ื•ืœื”ืฉื™ืง ืืคืœื™ืงืฆื™ืช ื ืืžื ื•ืช ืœืื—ืจืช.
01:48
And that one is still going.
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ื•ื–ื• ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืขื•ื‘ื“ืช.
01:51
SE: And I've moved from making magazines
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ืฉืจื”: ื•ืื ื™ ืขื‘ืจืชื™ ืžืœื™ืฆื•ืจ ื›ืชื‘ื™ ืขืช
01:53
to working on food waste,
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ืœืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืขืœ ืคืกื•ืœืช ืžื–ื•ืŸ,
01:55
from a five- to a four-day week
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ืžื—ืžื™ืฉื” ื™ืžื™ ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื‘ืฉื‘ื•ืข ืœืืจื‘ืข
01:56
so I could spend more time on personal projects and volunteering.
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ื›ืš ืฉืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืฉืงื™ืข ื™ื•ืชืจ ื–ืžืŸ ืขืœ ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ืื™ืฉื™ื™ื ื•ื”ืชื ื“ื‘ื•ืช.
02:01
I've already had more jobs and worked in more organizations
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ื›ื‘ืจ ื”ื™ื• ืœื™ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืชืคืงื™ื“ื™ื ื•ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”
02:05
than my dad,
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ืžืืฉืจ ืœืื‘ื™,
02:06
and he's been working for twice as long as I have.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืขื•ื‘ื“ ืคื™ ืฉืชื™ื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉื ื™ื ืžืžื ื™.
02:09
And I'm the rule, not the exception.
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ื•ืื ื™ ื”ื›ืœืœ, ืœื ื”ื™ื•ืฆื ืžืŸ ื”ื›ืœืœ.
02:12
HT: When we started to share the idea of squiggly careers with people,
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ื”ืœืŸ: ื›ืฉื”ืชื—ืœื ื• ืœื—ืœื•ืง ืืช ื”ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืœ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ืช ืขื ืื ืฉื™ื,
02:16
we were surprised by how much it stuck.
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ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ืžื•ืคืชืขื•ืช ืžื›ืžื” ื–ื” ืชืคืก.
02:18
It seemed to give people something
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ื ืจืื” ืฉื–ื” ื ืชืŸ ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืžืฉื”ื•
02:20
that perhaps they didn't even know that they needed,
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ืฉืื•ืœื™ ื”ื ืืคื™ืœื• ืœื ื™ื“ืขื• ืฉื”ื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื,
02:23
a way of describing both their experiences and their aspirations.
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ื“ืจืš ืœืชืืจ ื’ื ืืช ื”ื ื™ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืœื”ื ื•ื’ื ืืช ื”ืฉืื™ืคื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื.
02:27
Someone even told us that they took our book,
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ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืืคื™ืœื• ืืžืจ ืœื ื• ืฉื”ื ืœืงื—ื• ืืช ื”ืกืคืจ ืฉืœื ื•,
02:30
which has a big squiggle on the front of it,
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื• ืฉืจื‘ื•ื˜ ื’ื“ื•ืœ ืขืœ ื”ื›ืจื™ื›ื”,
02:32
into a job interview,
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ืœืจืื™ื•ืŸ ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”,
02:33
as a way of describing their career so far.
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ื›ื“ืจืš ืœืชืืจ ืืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื”ื ืขื“ ื”ื™ื•ื.
02:36
But we underestimated one big problem:
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืขืจื›ื ื• ื‘ื—ื•ืกืจ ื‘ืขื™ื” ืื—ืช ื’ื“ื•ืœื”:
02:39
the legacy of the ladder is all around us.
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ื”ืžื•ืจืฉืช ืฉืœ ื”ืกื•ืœื ื ืžืฆืืช ื‘ื›ืœ ืžืงื•ื ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื ื•.
02:42
It's in the companies that we work in and the conversations that we have.
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ื–ื” ื‘ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืฉืขื‘ื“ื ื• ื‘ื”ืŸ ื•ื”ืฉื™ื—ื•ืช ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื•.
02:46
It sounds like being asked in a job interview,
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ื–ื” ื ืฉืžืข ื›ืžื• ืฉืืœื” ืฉืœ ืจืื™ื•ื ื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”,
02:48
"Where do you see yourself in five years' time?"
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ืดืื™ืคื” ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ืืช ืขืฆืžื›ื ื‘ืขื•ื“ ื—ืžืฉ ืฉื ื™ื?ืด
02:52
It's the uncomfortable question of how we reward and motivate people
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ื–ื• ืฉืืœื” ืฉืžืขื•ืจืจืช ื—ื•ืกืจ ื ื•ื—ื•ืช ื‘ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ืžืชืžืจืฆื™ื ื•ืžืชื’ืžืœื™ื ืื ืฉื™ื
02:56
who do a great job but don't want to be promoted.
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ืฉืขื•ืฉื™ื ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืžืขื•ืœื” ืื‘ืœ ืœื ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืงื•ื“ืžื™ื.
03:00
And it's the unfairness of our learning being unlocked
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื—ื•ืกืจ ื”ื•ื’ื ื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืœื ื• ืฉื”ื™ื ืœื ื ืขื•ืœื”
03:03
by the level that we reach in an organization.
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ืขืœ ืคื™ ื”ืจืžื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžื’ื™ืขื™ื ืืœื™ื” ื‘ืชื•ืš ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ.
03:07
SE: Career ladders were created as a way to manage and motivate
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ืฉืจื”: ืกื•ืœืžื•ืช ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ื ื•ืฆืจื• ื›ื“ืจืš ืœื ื”ืœ ื•ืœืชืžืจืฅ
03:11
a whole new generation of workers --
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ื“ื•ืจ ืฉืœื ืฉืœ ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื --
03:13
in the early 1900s.
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ื‘ืชื—ื™ืœืช ื”ืžืื” ื”-20.
03:16
And that world of conformity and control from over 100 years ago
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ื•ื”ืขื•ืœื ืฉืœ ืฉืžืจื ื•ืช ื•ืฉืœื™ื˜ื” ืžืœืคื ื™ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืžืื” ืฉื ื™ื
03:20
is unrecognizable today,
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ืœื ืžื–ื•ื”ื” ื”ื™ื•ื,
03:22
especially when we consider
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ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ ื›ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžื‘ื™ืื™ื ื‘ื—ืฉื‘ื•ืŸ
03:24
only six percent of people in the UK now work nine-to-five.
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ืฉืจืง ืฉื™ืฉื” ืื—ื•ื–ื™ื ืžื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื” ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ืžืฉืจื” ืžืœืื”.
03:27
We can all expect to have five different types of career.
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœืฆืคื•ืช ืฉื™ื”ื™ื• ืœื ื• ื—ืžื™ืฉื” ืกื•ื’ื™ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื™ื.
03:31
And the World Economic Forum estimates
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ื•ื”ืคื•ืจื•ื ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื™ ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ ืžืขืจื™ืš
03:33
that 50 percent of the skills that we have right now
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ืฉ-50 ืื—ื•ื– ืžื”ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ื ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื›ืจื’ืข
03:36
won't be relevant by 2025.
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ืœื ื™ื”ื™ื• ืจืœื•ื•ื ื˜ื™ื ืขื“ 2025.
03:40
HT: Ladders are limiting.
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืกื•ืœืžื•ืช ืžื’ื‘ื™ืœื™ื.
03:42
They limit learning and they limit opportunity,
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ื”ื ืžื’ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ืืช ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ื•ื”ื ืžื’ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ืืช ื”ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช,
03:45
and if organizations don't lose the ladder,
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ื•ืื ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ื ืœื ื™ื™ืคื˜ืจื• ืžื”ืกื•ืœื,
03:47
they will lose their people,
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ื”ื ื™ืคืกื™ื“ื• ืืช ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ืฉืœื”ื,
03:49
the people that are always adapting,
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ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืชืžื™ื“ ืžืชืื™ืžื™ื ืืช ืขืฆืžื,
03:52
that never stop learning
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ืฉืืฃ ืคืขื ืœื ืžืคืกื™ืงื™ื ืœืœืžื•ื“
03:54
and who are open to the opportunities that come their way.
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ื•ืฉืคืชื•ื—ื™ื ืœื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ืœื”ื ื‘ื“ืจืš.
03:58
2020 disrupted the way that all of us work,
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2020 ืฉื™ื ืชื” ืืช ื”ื“ืจืš ืฉื‘ื” ื›ื•ืœื ื• ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื,
04:01
and none of us know what will happen next.
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ื•ืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืžืื™ืชื ื• ืœื ื™ื•ื“ืข ืžื” ื™ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืขืชื™ื“.
04:04
But one thing we can be confident about
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ืื‘ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืื—ื“ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื˜ื•ื—ื™ื ืœื’ื‘ื™ื•
04:06
is that the ladder is a redundant concept of careers.
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ื–ื” ืฉื”ืกื•ืœื ื”ื•ื ืชืคื™ืกื” ืžื™ื•ืชืจืช ืฉืœ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื”.
04:11
SE: Losing the ladder starts with redefining
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ืฉืจื”: ืœื”ื™ืคื˜ืจ ืžื”ืกื•ืœื ืžืชื—ื™ืœ ื‘ื”ื’ื“ืจื” ืžื—ื“ืฉ
04:14
our relationship with learning at work.
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ืฉืœ ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ื™ื—ืกื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ืขื ืœืžื™ื“ื” ื‘ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”.
04:16
We all now have the chance to curate our own curriculums,
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ืœื›ื•ืœื ื• ื™ืฉ ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืืช ื”ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ืช ืœืืฆื•ืจ ืืช ืชื›ื ื™ืช ื”ืœื™ืžื•ื“ื™ื ืฉืœื ื•,
04:20
and we can be really creative about what that looks like,
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืžืฉ ื™ืฆื™ืจืชื™ื™ื ืœื’ื‘ื™ ืื™ืš ืฉื–ื” ื ืจืื”,
04:23
whether it's the TED Talks that you're watching,
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ื‘ื™ืŸ ืื ื–ื” ื”ืจืฆืื•ืช TED ืฉืืชื ืฆื•ืคื™ื ื‘ื”ื,
04:25
the books and blogs you're reading,
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ื”ืกืคืจื™ื ื•ื”ื‘ืœื•ื’ื™ื ืฉืืชื ืงื•ืจืื™ื,
04:27
the podcasts you're listening to.
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ื”ื”ืกื›ืชื™ื ืฉืืชื ืžืื–ื™ื ื™ื ืœื”ื.
04:29
Your learning is personal to you.
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ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืœื›ื ื”ื™ื ืื™ืฉื™ืช ืœื›ื.
04:31
And the good news is, your development is no longer dependent on other people.
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ื•ื”ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ื•ืช ื”ืŸ, ื”ื”ืชืคืชื—ื•ืช ืฉืœื›ื ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ืชืœื•ื™ื” ื‘ืื ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื.
04:36
HT: Our learning can't be limited by the level we reach in an organization
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ื”ืœืŸ: ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืœื ื• ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื•ื’ื‘ืœืช ืขืœ ืคื™ ื”ืจืžื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžื’ื™ืขื™ื ืืœื™ื” ื‘ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”
04:41
or only available to the fortunate few.
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ืื• ื–ืžื™ื ื” ืจืง ืœืžืกืคืจ ื‘ืจื™ ืžื–ืœ.
04:44
It's not the responsibility of a single department,
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ื–ื• ืœื ื”ืื—ืจื™ื•ืช ืฉืœ ืžื—ืœืงื” ืื—ืช,
04:47
and it doesn't just happen when you go on a course.
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ื•ื–ื” ืœื ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืงื•ืจื” ื›ืฉื ื™ื’ืฉื™ื ืœืงื•ืจืก.
04:50
No one has a monopoly on wisdom.
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ืœืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืื™ืŸ ืžื•ื ื•ืคื•ืœ ืขืœ ืชื‘ื•ื ื”.
04:53
In squiggly careers, everybody is a learner,
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ื‘ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ื•ืช, ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ื”ื•ื ืชืœืžื™ื“,
04:56
and everybody is a teacher.
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ื•ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ื”ื•ื ืžื•ืจื”.
04:58
We've been inspired by MVF,
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ืงื™ื‘ืœื ื• ื”ืฉืจืื” ืž-MVF,
05:01
a global technology and marketing company who've introduced a program
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ื—ื‘ืจืช ืฉื™ื•ื•ืง ื•ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ืขื•ืœืžื™ืช ืฉื”ืฆื™ื’ื” ืชื•ื›ื ื™ืช
05:04
called "Connected Learning."
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ืฉื ืงืจืืช ืดืœืžื™ื“ื” ืžื—ื•ื‘ืจืชืด.
05:06
They blind-match their employees so that people can learn from each other
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ื”ืŸ ืžื—ื‘ืจื™ื ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืขื™ื•ื•ืจ ื‘ื™ืŸ ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ืขืœ ืžื ืช ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื™ื•ื›ืœื• ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืฉื ื™
05:10
without barriers like what job they do or who they know
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ื‘ืœื™ ืžื—ืกื•ืžื™ื ื›ืžื• ืื™ื•ื– ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื”ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื ืื• ืืช ืžื™ ื”ื ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื
05:13
getting in the way.
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ืฉื ื›ื ืกื™ื ื‘ืืžืฆืข.
05:15
Their CEO, Michael Teixeira, told us,
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ื™ื•ืฉื‘ ื”ืจืืฉ ืฉืœื”ื, ืžื™ื™ืงืœ ื˜ืงืกื™ื™ืจื”, ืืžืจ ืœื ื•,
05:18
"Everybody is in charge of their own learning here.
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ืดื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืื—ืจืื™ ืขืœ ื”ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืœ ืขืฆืžื• ื›ืืŸ.
05:21
We all learn from each other and with each other,
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ื›ื•ืœื ื• ืœื•ืžื“ื™ื ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืฉื ื™ ื•ืื—ื“ ืขื ื”ืฉื ื™,
05:24
and we're much better off as a result."
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ื•ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ื˜ื•ื‘ ืœื ื• ื›ืชื•ืฆืื” ืžื–ื”.ืด
05:27
SE: In squiggly careers, we need to change our perspective on progression.
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ืฉืจื”: ื‘ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ื•ืช, ืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืืช ื ืงื•ื“ืช ื”ืžื‘ื˜ ืฉืœื ื• ืขืœ ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ืช.
05:32
The problem with career ladders is that they only go in one direction,
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ื”ื‘ืขื™ื” ืขื ืกื•ืœืžื•ืช ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ื”ื™ื ืฉื”ื ืžืชืงื“ืžื™ื ืจืง ื‘ื›ื™ื•ื•ืŸ ืื—ื“,
05:35
and you can only take one step at a time.
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ื•ืืคืฉืจ ืœืงื—ืช ืจืง ืฆืขื“ ืื—ื“ ื‘ื›ืœ ืคืขื.
05:38
If progression purely means promotion,
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ืื ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ืช ืื•ืžืจืช ืจืง ืงื™ื“ื•ื,
05:41
we miss out on so many of the opportunities
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืžืคืกืคืกื™ื ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžื”ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช
05:43
that are all around us.
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ืฉืกื•ื‘ื‘ื•ืช ืื•ืชื ื•.
05:45
We need to stop asking only, "What job comes next?"
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœื”ืคืกื™ืง ืœืฉืื•ืœ ืจืง, ืดืื™ื–ื• ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื”ื™ื ื”ื‘ืื”?ืด
05:48
and start asking, "What career possibilities am I curious about?"
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ื•ืœื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืœืฉืื•ืœ, ืดืื™ืœื• ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืžืกืงืจื ื•ืช ืื•ืชื™?ืด
05:53
HT: Exploring our career possibilities increases our resilience.
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืœืžื™ื“ื” ืฉืœ ืืคืฉืจื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื ื• ืžื’ื“ื™ืœื” ืืช ื”ื—ื•ืกืŸ ืฉืœื ื•.
05:58
It gives us more options,
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ื–ื” ื ื•ืชืŸ ืœื ื• ื™ื•ืชืจ ืืคืฉืจื•ื™ื•ืช,
06:00
and you create more connections.
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ื•ืืคืฉืจ ืœื™ืฆื•ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืงืฉืจื™ื.
06:02
We see how we can use our strengths in new ways
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืื™ื ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื—ื•ื–ืงื•ืช ืฉืœื ื• ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช
06:05
and spot the skills that might be useful for our future.
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ืงื•ืœื˜ื™ื ืืช ื”ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืœื ื• ืฉื™ืžื•ืฉื™ื™ื ื‘ืขืชื™ื“.
06:08
We can all start exploring our career possibilities.
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ื›ื•ืœื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืœื—ืงื•ืจ ืืช ืืคืฉืจื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื ื•.
06:12
It might be an ambitious possibility that you don't feel ready for yet.
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ืืœื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืืคืฉืจื•ืช ืฉืืคืชื ื™ืช ืฉืืชื ืœื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืžื•ื›ื ื™ื ืืœื™ื” ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ.
06:16
Or perhaps it's a pivot that feels interesting,
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ืื• ืื•ืœื™ ื–ื” ื ืงื•ื“ืช ืžืคื ื” ืฉืžืจื’ื™ืฉื” ืžืขื ื™ื™ื ืช,
06:20
but just that bit out of reach.
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ืื‘ืœ ืจืง ืงืฆืช ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœื”ื™ืฉื’ ื™ื“.
06:21
Or maybe it's a dream that you've discounted.
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ืื• ืื•ืœื™ ื–ื” ื—ืœื•ื ืฉื–ื ื—ืชื.
06:25
The most important thing
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ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื›ื™ ื—ืฉื•ื‘
06:26
is that you give yourself the permission to explore.
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ื–ื” ืฉืชืชื ื• ืœืขืฆืžื›ื ืืช ื”ืจืฉื•ืช ืœื—ืงื•ืจ.
06:30
SE: And this is not a one-way street.
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ืฉืจื”: ื•ื–ื” ืœื ื“ืจืš ื—ื“ ืกื˜ืจื™ืช.
06:32
We need support from the people that we work for
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืชืžื™ื›ื” ืžื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœื
06:36
and the organizations that we work in.
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ื•ืžื”ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ื ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ื‘ื”ื.
06:38
And we've seen how this can work in practice
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ื•ืจืื™ื ื• ืื™ืš ื–ื” ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ื‘ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช
06:41
at a food manufacturer called Cook.
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ื‘ื™ืฆืจืŸ ืžื–ื•ืŸ ืฉื ืงืจื ืดืงื•ืงืด.
06:43
They have something called the "Dream Academy."
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ื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉื ืงืจื - ืดืืงื“ืžื™ื™ืช ื”ื—ืœื•ืžื•ืชืด.
06:46
And in this academy, their colleagues can explore any career
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ื•ื‘ืืงื“ืžื™ื™ื” ื”ื–ื•, ื”ืขืžื™ืชื™ื ืฉืœื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื—ืงื•ืจ ื›ืœ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื”
06:50
that they're intrigued by,
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ืฉื”ื ืžืกื•ืงืจื ื™ื ืœื’ื‘ื™ื”,
06:51
in or out of the organization,
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ื‘ืชื•ืš ืื• ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœืืจื’ื•ืŸ,
06:54
and even rediscover abandoned ambitions.
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ื•ืืคื™ืœื• ืœื’ืœื•ืช ืžื—ื“ืฉ ืฉืื™ืคื•ืช ืฉื ื–ื ื—ื•.
06:56
It could be to try stand-up comedy,
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ื–ื” ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืกื˜ืื ื“ ืืค,
06:59
to write their first children's book,
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ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ืกืคืจ ื™ืœื“ื™ื ืจืืฉื•ืŸ,
07:01
to move from marketing to finance,
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ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ืžืฉื™ื•ื•ืง ืœื›ืกืคื™ื,
07:03
become the CEO.
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ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื ื›โ€œืœ.
07:04
Nothing is off the table.
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ื”ื›ืœ ืืคืฉืจื™.
07:06
One employee said,
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ืขื•ื‘ื“ ืื—ื“ ืืžืจ,
07:08
"The Dream Academy didn't open doors for me.
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โ€œืืงื“ืžื™ื™ืช ื”ื—ืœื•ืžื•ืช ืœื ืคืชื—ื” ืขื‘ื•ืจื™ ื“ืœืชื•ืช.
07:12
It helped me to have the confidence to open them for myself."
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ื”ื™ื ืขื–ืจื” ืœื™ ืœืงื‘ืœ ืืช ื”ื‘ื™ื˜ื—ื•ืŸ ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœ ืœืคืชื•ื— ืื•ืชืŸ ื‘ืขืฆืžื™.ืด
07:17
In career ladders,
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ื‘ืกื•ืœืžื•ืช ืงืจื™ื™ืจื”,
07:18
our identity can become about the titles that we've held,
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ื”ื–ื”ื•ืช ืฉืœื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ืคื•ืš ืœืงืฉื•ืจื” ืœืชื•ืืจ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžื—ื–ื™ืงื™ื,
07:22
rather than the talents that we have.
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ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืœื™ื›ื•ืœื•ืช ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื•.
07:24
Everyone is talented,
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ื›ื•ืœื ืžื•ื›ืฉืจื™ื,
07:26
and we can use those talents in many ways.
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื• ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ืจื‘ื•ืช.
07:28
We don't need to constrain our careers.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœืืœืฅ ืืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•.
07:31
In the words of my favorite band, Fleetwood Mac, "You can go your own way."
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ื‘ืžื™ืœื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ืœื”ืงื” ื”ืื”ื•ื‘ื” ืขืœื™ื™, ืคืœื™ื˜ื•ื•ื“ ืžืง, ืดืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืœื›ืช ื‘ื“ืจื›ื›ื ื”ืื™ืฉื™ืชืด.
07:35
HT: One of the things that sticks with me from my time at Microsoft
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืื—ื“ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื ืฉืืจื• ืื™ืชื™ ืžื”ืชืงื•ืคื” ืฉืœื™ ื‘ืžื™ืงืจื•ืกื•ืคื˜
07:39
is that I'd go into the office, and I'd see a sign that said,
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ื–ื” ืฉื›ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื ื›ื ืกืช ืœืžืฉืจื“, ื•ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจื•ืื” ืืช ื”ืฉืœื˜ ืฉืืžืจ,
07:42
"Come as you are and do what you love."
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ืดื‘ื•ืื• ื›ืžื• ืฉืืชื ื•ืขืฉื• ืืช ืžื” ืฉืืชื ืื•ื”ื‘ื™ืืด.
07:44
And this was more than just words on a wall.
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ื•ืืœื• ื”ื™ื• ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืืฉืจ ืžื™ืœื™ื ืขืœ ื”ืงื™ืจ.
07:47
As a non-techie with a podcast on the side,
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ื›ืื“ื ืœื ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ ืขื ื”ืกื›ืช ืžื”ืฆื“,
07:50
I certainly brought something different to the organization.
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ืื ื™ ื‘ื”ื—ืœื˜ ื”ื‘ืืชื™ ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉื•ื ื” ืœืืจื’ื•ืŸ.
07:53
But my uniqueness was embraced,
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื™ื—ื•ื“ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื™ ื”ืชืงื‘ืœื” ื‘ืื”ื‘ื”,
07:56
and there was no pressure to fit a perfect mold.
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ื•ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื—ืฅ ืœื”ืชืื™ื ืืช ืขืฆืžื™ ืœืชื‘ื ื™ืช ืžื•ืฉืœืžืช.
07:59
I felt like I could be open about what I wanted to do
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ืื ื™ ื”ืจื’ืฉืชื™ ื›ืื™ืœื• ืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืคืชื•ื—ื” ืœื’ื‘ื™ ืžื” ืฉืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช
08:02
and where I wanted to go,
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ื•ืœืืŸ ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœืœื›ืช,
08:03
even if that was different to everybody else.
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ืืคื™ืœื• ืื ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื ื” ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื›ืœ ื”ืื—ืจื™ื.
08:07
In squiggly careers, there is room for everybody to succeed.
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ื‘ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ื•ืช,ื™ืฉ ืžืงื•ื ืœื›ื•ืœื ืœื”ืฆืœื™ื—.
08:11
And no two squiggles are the same.
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ื•ืื™ืŸ ืฉื ื™ ืฉืจื‘ื•ื˜ื™ื ื–ื”ื™ื.
08:13
The ladder has been holding us back for far too long.
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ื”ืกื•ืœื ืขื™ื›ื‘ ืื•ืชื ื• ืžืกืคื™ืง ื–ืžืŸ.
08:17
But it's not easy to change something that's been around for over 100 years.
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ืœื ืงืœ ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืงื™ื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ ืž-100 ืฉื ื™ื.
08:22
What we need now is more than a radical rethink.
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ืžื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ื–ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื—ืฉื™ื‘ื” ืงื™ืฆื•ื ื™ืช ืžื—ื“ืฉ.
08:26
We need a radical redo,
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืขืฉื™ื™ื” ืžื—ื“ืฉ ืงื™ืฆื•ื ื™ืช,
08:28
and change comes from action.
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ื•ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ืžื’ื™ืข ืžืคืขื•ืœื”.
08:31
SE: Together, we have an ambition to make careers better for everyone.
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ืฉืจื”: ื™ื—ื“, ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืฉืื™ืคื” ืœื”ืคื•ืš ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ื˜ื•ื‘ื•ืช ื™ื•ืชืจ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื›ื•ืœื.
08:36
And we've seen just what's possible when people let go of the ladder.
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ื•ืจืื™ื ื• ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ืžื” ืืคืฉืจื™ ื›ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืขื•ื–ื‘ื™ื ืืช ื”ืกื•ืœื.
08:39
We see people who define their own success and take control of their careers.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืื•ืช ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืžื’ื“ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ื”ืฆืœื—ื” ืฉืœื”ื ื•ืœื•ืงื—ื™ื ืืช ื”ืฉืœื™ื˜ื” ืขืœ ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื.
08:44
And we see organizations who benefit
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืื•ืช ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ื ืฉืžืจื•ื•ื™ื—ื™ื
08:46
from adaptable employees who are curious, confident and continually learning.
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ืžืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ื ื‘ืขืœื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ื”ืชืืžื” ืขืฆืžื™ืช ืฉื”ื ืกืงืจื ื™ื, ื‘ื˜ื•ื—ื™ื ื‘ืขืฆืžื ื•ืœื•ืžื“ื™ื ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ.
08:52
HT: We want to ask you to become an advocate for squiggly careers.
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ื”ืœืŸ: ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืฆื•ืช ืœื‘ืงืฉ ืžื›ื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื‘ื–ื›ื•ืช ืงืจื™ื™ืจื•ืช ืžืฉื•ืจื‘ื˜ื•ืช.
08:57
You might be a manager who could help somebody to explore
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ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉืืชื ืžื ื”ืœื™ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขื–ื•ืจ ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืœื—ืงื•ืจ
09:00
their career possibilities.
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ืืช ืืคืฉืจื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื”ื.
09:02
Or maybe youโ€™re a mentor and you can give someone the confidence
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ืื• ืื•ืœื™ ืืชื ืžื ื˜ื•ืจื™ื ื•ืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืชืช ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืืช ื”ื‘ื™ื˜ื—ื•ืŸ
09:06
to see how they can use their talents in new ways.
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ืœืจืื•ืช ืื™ืš ื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื›ื™ืฉื•ืจื™ื ืฉืœื”ื ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช.
09:09
And now that we're all teachers,
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ื•ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื• ืžื•ืจื™ื,
09:12
let's share what we know so that everybody can succeed.
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ื‘ื•ืื• ื ื—ืœื•ืง ืืช ืžื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื™ืฆืœื™ื—ื•.
09:16
SE: It's finally time for us all to step off the ladder
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ืฉืจื”: ื–ื” ืกื•ืฃ ืกื•ืฃ ื”ื–ืžืŸ ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœ ื›ื•ืœื ื• ืœืจื“ืช ืžื”ืกื•ืœื
09:20
and into the squiggle.
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ื•ืœืชื•ืš ื”ืฉื™ืจื‘ื•ื˜.
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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