The new age of corporate monopolies | Margrethe Vestager

Translator: Lars Hansen Reviewer: Solveig Vendelbo

Let's go back to 1957.

Forestil jer, at vi er i 1957.

Representatives from six European countries

Repræsentanter fra seks europæiske lande

had come to Rome

er rejst til Rom

to sign the treaty that was to create the European Union.

for at underskrive traktaten, der skal skabe den europæiske union.

Europe was destroyed.

Europa var ødelagt.

A world war had emerged from Europe.

En verdenskrig udsprang af Europa.

The human suffering was unbelievable

De menneskelige lidelser var ufattelige

and unprecedented.

og aldrig set tidligere.

Those men

Mændene

wanted to create a peaceful,

ønskede at skabe et fredeligt,

democratic Europe,

demokratisk Europa.

a Europe that works for its people.

Et Europa der er til gavn for folket.

And one of the many building blocks

Og et af de mange elementer

in that peace project

i dét fredsprojekt

was a common European market.

var et fælles europæisk marked.

Already back then,

Allerede dengang

they saw how markets,

vidste man hvordan markeder,

when left to themselves,

der er overladt til sig selv,

can sort of slip into being just the private property

kan ende med at blive en privat klub

of big businesses and cartels,

for store virksomheder og karteller,

meeting the needs of some businesses

der kun tilgodeser visse virksomheders behov

and not the needs of customers.

og ikke kundernes behov.

So from our very first day,

Så lige fra begyndelsen

in 1957,

i 1957,

the European Union had rules

har den Europæiske Union haft regler,

to defend fair competition.

der beskytter den frie konkurrence.

And that means competition on the merits,

Og det betyder konkurrence på basis af,

that you compete on the quality of your products,

at du konkurrerer på kvaliteten af dine produkter,

the prices you can offer,

de priser du kan tilbyde,

the services, the innovation that you produce.

de tjenester og den fornyelse du leverer.

That's competition on the merits.

Dét er konkurrence på værdier.

You have a fair chance of making it on such a market.

Alle har de samme muligheder for at klare sig på sådan et marked

And it's my job,

Og det er mit job

as Commissioner for Competition,

som konkurrencekommissær

to make sure that companies who do business in Europe

at sikre at virksomheder, der gør forretninger i Europa,

live by those rules.

overholder disse regler.

But let's take a step back.

Men lad os træde et skridt baglæns.

Why do we need rules on competition at all?

Behøver vi overhovedet regler for konkurrence?

Why not just let businesses compete?

Hvorfor ikke bare lade virksomheder konkurrere?

Isn't that also the best for us

Vil det ikke også være bedst for os

if they compete freely,

at de konkurrerer frit,

since more competition

eftersom mere konkurrence

drives more quality,

medfører højere kvalitet,

lower prices, more innovation?

lavere priser, mere innovation?

Well, mostly it is.

Jo, som oftest ...

But the problem is that sometimes, for businesses,

men problemet er at virksomheder sommetider

competition can be inconvenient,

finder konkurrencen ubelejlig,

because competition means that the race is never over,

for konkurrence betyder at kapløbet aldrig slutter,

the game is never won.

og spillet aldrig vundet.

No matter how well you were doing in the past,

Uanset hvor godt du har klaret dig tidligere,

there's always someone

er der altid nogen derude,

who are out there wanting to take your place.

der ønsker at overtage din plads.

So the temptation to avoid competition

Så fristelsen til at undgå konkurrence

is powerful.

er stærk.

It's rooted in motives as old as Adam and Eve:

Den er rodfæstet i motiver så gamle som Adam og Eva:

in greed for yet more money,

I begæret efter endnu flere penge,

in fear of losing your position in the market

i frygten for at miste markedsandele

and all the benefits it brings.

og alle de fordele det fører med sig.

And when greed and fear

Og når grådighed og frygt

are linked to power,

er knyttet til magt,

you have a dangerous mix.

opstår der en farlig kombination.

We see that in political life.

Vi ser det i det politiske liv.

In part of the world,

I dele af verden

the mix of greed and fear

medfører grådighed og frygt

means that those who get power

at dem, der får magten,

become reluctant to give it back.

kun modstræbende giver den tilbage.

One of the many things

En af de mange ting

I like and admire in our democracies

jeg beundrer og holder af i vores demokratier

are the norms

er de spilleregler,

that make our leaders hand over power

der får vores ledere til at give magten fra sig,

when voters tell them to.

når vælgerne har besluttet det.

And competition rules can do a similar thing in the market,

Og regler for konkurrence kan gøre tilsvarende for markeder,

making sure that greed and fear doesn't overcome fairness.

og sikre at grådighed og frygt ikke forhindrer retfærdighed.

Because those rules mean

For de regler betyder

that companies cannot misuse their power to undermine competition.

at virksomheder ikke kan misbruge deres magt til at underminere konkurrenterne.

Think for a moment about your car.

Tænk på din bil.

It has thousands of parts,

Den har tusindvis af dele

from the foam that makes the seats

lige fra skummet i sæderne

to the electrical wiring to the light bulbs.

til de elektriske ledninger til lyspærerne.

And for many of those parts,

Og for mange af disse dele

the world's carmakers,

er verdens bilfabrikanter

they are dependent on only a few suppliers.

afhængige af ganske få leverandører.

So it's hardly surprising

Så det kan næppe overraske

that it is kind of tempting for those suppliers

at det er fristende for disse leverandører

to come together and fix prices.

at mødes og fastsætte priserne.

But just imagine what that could do

Men forestil dig hvad det ville betyde

to the final price of your new car in the market.

for prisen på din nye bil.

Except, it's not imaginary.

Men det er ikke kun et tankeeksperiment.

The European Commission

Den Europæiske Kommission

has dealt with already seven different car parts cartels,

har allerede håndteret syv forskellige karteller inden for dele til biler,

and we're still investigating some.

og vi undersøger stadig et par stykker.

Here, the Department of Justice

Det amerikanske Justitsministerium

are also looking into the market for car parts,

undersøger også markedet for bildele,

and it has called it the biggest criminal investigation

og de har kaldt det for den største kriminalefterforskning,

it has ever pursued.

de nogensinde har foretaget.

But without competition rules,

Men uden konkurrenceregler,

there would be no investigation,

ville der ikke være undersøgelser,

and there would be nothing to stop this collusion from happening

og intet der kunne forhindre sådant aftalt spil i at finde sted

and the prices of your car to go up.

og prisen på din bil ville være højere.

Yet it's not only companies

Men det er ikke kun virksomheder

who can undermine fair competition.

der begrænser den frie konkurrence.

Governments can do it, too.

Regeringer kan også gøre det.

And governments do that when they hand out subsidies

Og det gør regeringer, når de yder statsstøtte

to just the favorite few, the selected.

til nogle få udvalgte - deres favoritter.

They may do that when they hand out subsidies --

Det kan ske, når de yder statsstøtte,

and, of course, all financed by taxpayers --

og i sagens natur alene betalt af skatteyderne,

to companies.

til virksomheder.

That may be in the form of special tax treatments,

Det kan være i form af særlige skatteregler,

like the tax benefits

såsom de skattefordele

that firms like Fiat, Starbucks and Apple got

som Fiat, Starbucks og Apple fik

from some governments in Europe.

af nogle europæiske regeringer.

Those subsidies stop companies from competing on equal terms.

Den slags støtte forhindrer virksomheder i at konkurrere på lige vilkår.

They can mean that the companies that succeed,

Det kan betyde at de virksomheder, der klarer sig bedst

well, they are the companies that got the most subsidy,

bare er de virksomheder, der har fået mest i støtte,

the ones that are the best-connected,

dem der har de bedste forbindelser,

and not, as it should be,

og ikke som det burde være,

the companies that serve consumers the best.

de virksomheder der betjener deres kunder bedst.

So there are times when we need to step in

Så nogle gange må vi gribe ind

to make sure that competition works the way it should.

for at sikre at konkurrencen fungerer som den skal.

By doing that, we help the market to work fairly,

Ved at gøre dét, hjælper vi markedet til at fungere på en fair måde,

because competition gives consumers the power to demand a fair deal.

fordi konkurrence giver forbrugerne magten til at forlange en fair handel.

It means that companies know that if they cannot offer good prices

Det betyder at virksomheder ved, at hvis de ikke kan tilbyde gode priser

or the service that's expected,

eller levere de ydelser, der forventes,

well, the customers will go somewhere else.

ja, så vil kunderne gå et andet sted hen.

And that sort of fairness is more important

Og den slags retfærdighed er vigtigere

than we may sometimes realize.

end vi nogle gange indser.

Very few people think about politics all the time.

Kun ganske få mennesker tænker på politik hele tiden.

Some even skip it at election time.

Nogle ikke engang på valgdagen.

But we are all in the market.

Men vi er alle en del af markedet.

Every day, we are in the market.

Hver eneste dag er vi på markedet.

And we don't want businesses to agree on prices in the back office.

Og vi ønsker ikke, at virksomhederne aftaler priserne indbyrdes.

We don't want them to divide the market between them.

Vi ønsker ikke, at de opdeler markedet imellem sig.

We don't want one big company

Vi ønsker ikke én stor virksomhed

just to shut out competitors

der forhindrer konkurrenterne i

from ever showing us what they can do.

at vise os hvad de kan.

If that happens,

Hvis det sker,

well, obviously, we feel that someone has cheated us,

ja, så vil vi nok føle at vi er blevet snydt,

that we are being ignored or taken for granted by the market.

at vi er blevet ignoreret eller taget for givet af markedet.

And that may undermine not only our trust in the market

Og det kan ødelægge ikke bare vores tillid til markedet

but also our trust in the society.

men også vores tillid til samfundet.

In a recent survey,

I en nylig undersøgelse

more than two-thirds of Europeans

sagde mere end to ud af tre europæere

said that they had felt the effects of lack of competition:

at de havde oplevet virkningerne af manglende konkurrence

that the price for electricity was too high,

at prisen på strøm var for høj

that the price for the medicines they needed was too high,

at prisen på den medicin, de havde behov for, var for høj

that they had no real choice

at de ikke havde et reelt valg

if they wanted to travel by bus or by plane,

hvis de ville rejse med bus eller fly

or they got poor service from their internet provider.

eller hvis de fik dårlig service fra deres internetudbyder.

In short, they found that the market didn't treat them fairly.

Kort sagt, de oplevede at markedet ikke behandlede dem fair.

And that might seem like very small things,

Og selvom det kan virke som små ting,

but they can give you this sense

kan det give følelsen af

that the world isn't really fair.

at verden ikke rigtigt er retfærdig.

And they see the market, which was supposed to serve everyone,

Og de ser markedet, som skulle være for alle,

become more like the private property of a few powerful companies.

mere bliver en slags privat ejendom delt mellem få magtfulde virksomheder.

The market is not the society.

Markedet er ikke samfundet.

Our societies are, of course, much, much more than the market.

Vores samfund er naturligvis meget mere end markedet.

But lack of trust in the market

Men manglende tillid til markedet

can rub off on society

kan farve vores opfattelse

so we lose trust in our society as well.

så vi også mister tilliden til vores samfund.

And it may be the most important thing we have, trust.

Og det kan meget vel være det vigtigste vi har -- tilliden

We can trust each other if we are treated as equals.

Vi kan have tillid til hinanden hvis vi bliver behandlet ligeværdigt.

If we are all to have the same chances,

Hvis vi alle skal have de samme muligheder,

well, we all have to follow the same fundamental rules.

ja, så må vi alle følge de samme grundlæggende regler.

Of course, some people and some businesses are more successful than others,

Selvfølgelig har nogle folk og nogle virksomheder større succes end andre,

but we do not trust in a society

men vi stoler ikke på et samfund

if the prizes are handed out

hvis præmierne uddeles

even before the contest begins.

allerede før konkurrencen er begyndt.

And this is where competition rules come in,

Det er derfor vi skal have regler for konkurrence,

because when we make sure that markets work fairly,

for når vi sikrer at markeder fungerer retfærdigt,

then businesses compete on the merits,

så konkurrerer virksomheder på de rette værdier

and that helps to build the trust that we need as citizens

og det opbygger den tillid som vi borgere har brug for

to feel comfortable and in control,

for at føle os tilpasse og i kontrol,

and the trust that allows our society to work.

og tilliden der får vores samfund til at fungere.

Because without trust, everything becomes harder.

For uden tillid bliver alting sværere.

Just to live our daily lives, we need to trust in strangers,

I vores hverdagsliv er det nødvendigt at stole på fremmede,

to trust the banks who keep our money,

at stole på bankerne der opbevarer vores penge,

the builders who build our home,

håndværkerne, der bygger vores hjem,

the electrician who comes to fix the wiring,

elektrikeren, der ordner forbindelserne,

the doctor who treats us when we're ill,

lægen der behandler os, når vi er syge,

not to mention the other drivers on the road,

og ikke at forglemme de andre bilister på vejen,

and everyone knows that they are crazy.

som vi alle ved er tossede.

And yet, we have to trust them

Og alligevel må vi stole på,

to do the right thing.

at de gør det rigtige.

And the thing is that the more our societies grow,

Og pointen er, at jo mere vores samfund vokser,

the more important trust becomes

jo vigtigere bliver tillid

and the harder it is to build.

og desto sværere bliver den at opbygge.

And that is a paradox of modern societies.

Og det er et af det moderne samfunds paradokser.

And this is especially true

Og det er ekstra tydeligt

when technology changes the way that we interact.

når teknologien ændrer måden, hvorpå vi omgås.

Of course, to some degree, technology can help us

Selvfølgelig kan teknologi også hjælpe os

to build trust in one another with ratings systems and other systems

med at opbygge tillid til hinanden med pointsystemer og lignende

that enable the sharing economy.

som åbner for deleøkonomi.

But technology also creates completely new challenges

Men teknologi skaber også helt nye udfordringer

when they ask us not to trust in other people

når vi bliver bedt om ikke at stole på andre

but to trust in algorithms and computers.

men at stole på algoritmer og computere.

Of course, we all see and share and appreciate

Selvfølgelig kan vi alle se og værdsætte

all the good that new technology can do us.

alt det gode som teknologi kan gøre for os.

It's a lot of good.

En masse gode ting.

Autonomous cars can give people with disabilities new independence.

Selvkørende biler kan give mennesker med handikap større selvstændighed.

It can save us all time,

Den kan spare os alle tid,

and it can make a much, much better use of resources.

og hjælpe os med at udnytte ressourcer langt bedre.

Algorithms that rely on crunching enormous amounts of data

Algoritmer der tygger sig igennem enorme mængder af data

can enable our doctors to give us a much better treatment,

kan give vores læger mulighed for at tilbyde os en langt bedre behandling

and many other things.

og mange andre ting.

But no one is going to hand over their medical data

Men ingen vil aflevere deres sundhedsdata

or step into a car that's driven by an algorithm

eller sætte sig ind i en bil styret af en computer

unless they trust the companies that they are dealing with.

medmindre de stoler på de virksomheder som de gør forretning med.

And that trust isn't always there.

Og den tillid mangler nogen gange.

Today, for example, less than a quarter of Europeans

I vore dage, til eksempel, stoler mindre end hver fjerde europæer

trust online businesses to protect their personal information.

på at online-virksomheder beskytter deres personlige oplysninger.

But what if people knew

Men hvad nu hvis folk vidste

that they could rely on technology companies

at de kunne stole på at teknologivirksomheder

to treat them fairly?

ville behandle dem fair?

What if they knew that those companies

Hvad hvis de vidste at de virksomheder

respond to competition by trying to do better,

reagerer på konkurrence ved at forsøge at gøre det bedre,

by trying to serve consumers better,

ved at betjene deres kunder bedre,

not by using their power

ikke ved at bruge deres magt

to shut out competitors,

til at udelukke konkurrenterne

say, by pushing their services

ved for eksempel at forringe konkurrenternes

far, far down the list of search results

placering på listen over søgeresultater

and promoting themselves?

og fremhæve sig selv i stedet?

What if they knew that compliance with the rules

Hvad hvis de vidste, at overholdelse af reglerne

was built into the algorithms by design,

skal være en del af algoritmernes design,

that the algorithm had to go to competition rules school

at algoritmen skal gå i skole og lære om konkurrenceregler

before they were ever allowed to work,

før den overhovedet må tages i brug,

that those algorithms were designed

at disse algoritmer blev designet

in a way that meant that they couldn't collude,

så de ikke kunne lave lyssky aftaler,

that they couldn't form their own little cartel

at de ikke kunne danne deres eget lille kartel

in the black box they're working in?

i den sorte kasse, hvor de arbejder?

Together with regulation,

I kombination med regulering

competition rules can do that.

kan konkurrenceregler gøre netop det.

They can help us to make sure

De kan hjælpe os med at sikre

that new technology treats people fairly

at ny teknologi behandler folk fair

and that everyone can compete on a level playing field.

og at alle konkurrerer på lige vilkår.

And that can help us build the trust

Og det kan hjælpe os med at opbygge den tillid

that we need for real innovation

som kræves for at innovation virkelig

to flourish

kan blomstre

and for societies to develop for citizens.

og for at samfund kan udvikles til gavn for deres borgere.

Because trust cannot be imposed.

For tillid kan ikke blive pålagt.

It has to be earned.

Den skal fortjenes.

Since the very first days of the European Union,

Lige siden den Europæiske Unions allerførste dage,

60 years ago,

for 60 år siden,

our competition rules have helped

har vores konkurrenceregler hjulpet til

to build that trust.

at opbygge den tillid.

A lot of things have changed.

Meget har ændret sig.

It's hard to say what those six representatives

Det er svært at vide, hvad de seks repræsentanter

would have made of a smartphone.

ville have sagt til smartphones.

But in today's world,

Men i vor tids verden,

as well as in their world,

såvel som i deres,

competition makes the market work for everyone.

er konkurrence det, der får markedet til at fungere for alle.

And that is why I am convinced

Og det er derfor jeg er overbevist om

that real and fair competition

at ægte og fair konkurrence

has a vital role to play

spiller en vigtig rolle

in building the trust we need

i opbygningen af den tillid, vi behøver

to get the best of our societies,

for at få det bedste ud af vores samfund

and that starts with enforcing our rules,

og det begynder med at vi håndhæver vores regler,

actually just to make the market work for everyone.

blot for at sikre at markedet fungerer for alle.

Thank you.

Tak.

(Applause)

(Bifald)

Bruno Giussani: Thank you.

Bruno Giussani (BG): Tak.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Tak, Kommissær.

Margrethe Vestager: It was a pleasure.

Margrethe Vestager (MV): En fornøjelse.

BG: I want to ask you two questions.

BG: Jeg har to spørgsmål til dig.

The first one is about data, because I have the impression

Det første handler om data, for det er min opfattelse

that technology and data are changing the way competition takes place

at teknologi og data ændrer måden hvorpå konkurrence finder sted

and the way competition regulation is designed and enforced.

og den måde, hvorpå konkurrence- reguleringen udformes og håndhæves.

Can you maybe comment on that?

Kan du prøve at kommentere på det?

MV: Well, yes, it is definitely challenging us,

MV: Ja, det er bestemt udfordrende for os,

because we both have to sharpen our tools

fordi vi skal gøre vores nuværende værktøjer skarpere,

but also to develop new tools.

samtidig med at vi udvikler nye.

When we were going through the Google responses

Da vi gennemgik Googles svar

to our statement of objection,

på vores anklageskrift,

we were going through 5.2 terabytes of data.

fyldte svaret 5,2 terabytes.

It's quite a lot.

Det er ikke så lidt.

So we had to set up new systems.

Så vi måtte udvikle nye systemer.

We had to figure out how to do this,

Vi måtte finde en måde at gøre dette på,

because you cannot work the way you did just a few years ago.

for du kan ikke længere arbejde på samme måde som for blot få år siden.

So we are definitely sharpening up our working methods.

Så vi er helt sikkert ved at skærpe vores måde at arbejde på.

The other thing is that we try to distinguish

En anden ting er, at vi prøver at skelne

between different kinds of data,

mellem forskellige typer af data,

because some data is extremely valuable

for nogle data er ekstremt værdifulde

and they will form, like, a barrier to entry in a market.

og de kan virke som en barriere for at komme ind på et marked.

Other things you can just -- it loses its value tomorrow.

Andre data kan du bare ... de mister deres værdi i morgen.

So we try to make sure

Så vi prøver at sikre

that we never, ever underestimate the fact

at vi aldrig nogensinde undervurderer det faktum

that data works as a currency in the market

at data fungerer som en valuta i markedet

and as an asset that can be a real barrier for competition.

og som et aktiv der kan lægge hindringer i vejen for konkurrencen.

BG: Google. You fined them 2.8 billion euros a few months ago.

BG: Google. Du gav dem en bøde på 2.8 mia. euro for et par måneder siden.

MV: No, that was dollars. It's not so strong these days.

MV: Nej, det var dollars. Kursen er ikke så høj længere.

BG: Ah, well, depends on the --

BG: Ja, det afhænger vel af ...

(Laughter)

(Latter)

Google appealed the case. The case is going to court.

Google ankede sagen. Sagen skal nu for retten.

It will last a while.

Det kommer til at tage tid.

Earlier, last year, you asked Apple to pay 13 billion in back taxes,

Engang, sidste år, bad du Apple betale 13 milliarder i skyldig skat,

and you have also investigated other companies,

og du har også efterforsket mange andre virksomheder,

including European and Russian companies,

i høj grad europæiske og russiske,

not only American companies, by far.

ikke bare amerikanske virksomheder.

Yet the investigations against the American companies

Alligevel er det efterforskningen af de amerikanske virksomheder

are the ones that have attracted the most attention

der tiltrækker sig mest opmærksomhed

and they have also attracted some accusations.

og de har også medført beskyldninger.

You have been accused, essentially, of protectionism, of jealousy,

Du er, basalt set, blevet beskyldt for protektionisme, for jalousi

or using legislation to hit back at American companies

og for at bruge lovgivningen til at ramme amerikanske virksomheder,

that have conquered European markets.

der har erobret de europæiske markeder.

"The Economist" just this week on the front page writes,

På forsiden af denne uges "The Economist" står der:

"Vestager Versus The Valley."

"Vestager Versus The Valley"

How do you react to that?

Hvordan reagerer du på det?

MV: Well, first of all, I take it very seriously,

MV: Først og fremmest tager jeg det meget alvorligt,

because bias has no room in law enforcement.

for forudindtagethed har ingen plads i håndhævelsen af vores love.

We have to prove our cases with the evidence and the facts

Vi må basere vores sager på beviser og fakta

and the jurisprudence

og gældende retspraksis

in order also to present it to the courts.

for at kunne føre sagen for domstolene.

The second thing is that Europe is open for business,

For det andet, så er Europa åben for forretninger,

but not for tax evasion.

men ikke for skatteunddragelse.

(Applause)

(Bifald)

The thing is that we are changing,

Vi er ved at forandre os,

and for instance, when I ask my daughters --

for eksempel, når jeg spørger mine døtre

they use Google as well --

- der også bruger Google -

"Why do you do that?"

"Hvorfor gør I det?"

They say, "Well, because it works. It's a very good product."

er svaret "Fordi det virker. Det er rigtigt godt produkt."

They would never, ever, come up with the answer,

De ville aldrig svare,

"It's because it's a US product."

"Fordi det er lavet i USA."

It's just because it works.

Det er bare fordi, det virker.

And that is of course how it should be.

Og det er selvfølgelig sådan det skal være.

But just the same, it is important that someone is looking after to say,

Men stadig, det er vigtigt at nogen holder øje og kan sige,

"Well, we congratulate you

"Vi lykønsker jer,

while you grow and grow and grow,

mens I bare vokser og vokser,

but congratulation stops

men lykønskningen stopper

if we find that you're misusing your position

hvis vi opdager, at I misbruger jeres position

to harm competitors so that they cannot serve consumers."

til at skade konkurrenter, så de ikke kan betjene kunder."

BG: It will be a fascinating case to follow.

BG: Det bliver en spændende sag at følge.

Thank you for coming to TED.

Tak for at du kom til TED.

MV: It was a pleasure. Thanks a lot.

MV: Det var en fornøjelse. Mange tak

(Applause)

(Bifald)