The new age of corporate monopolies | Margrethe Vestager

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 易帆 余

Let's go back to 1957.

讓我們一起回到 1957 年。

Representatives from six European countries

來自六個歐洲國家的代表

had come to Rome

來到了羅馬，

to sign the treaty that was to create the European Union.

簽訂了創立歐盟的條約。

Europe was destroyed.

歐洲被毀掉了。

A world war had emerged from Europe.

世界大戰在歐洲爆發。

The human suffering was unbelievable

人類受到的苦難是難以置信的、

and unprecedented.

史無前例的。

Those men

那些人

wanted to create a peaceful,

想要創造一個和平、

democratic Europe,

民主的歐洲，

a Europe that works for its people.

一個為人民服務的歐洲。

And one of the many building blocks

這個和平計畫的

in that peace project

許多組成元素之中，

was a common European market.

其中一個就是歐洲共同市場。

Already back then,

在當時，

they saw how markets,

他們就已經明白，

when left to themselves,

市場如果被放任不管，

can sort of slip into being just the private property

就會造成私人企業的

市場壟斷與聯合壟斷行為。

of big businesses and cartels,

meeting the needs of some businesses

它們只想滿足某些企業的需求，

and not the needs of customers.

而非消費者的需求。

So from our very first day,

所以，打從第一天起，

in 1957,

在 1957 年，

the European Union had rules

歐盟就訂定了一些規則

to defend fair competition.

用來保護市場的公平競爭，

And that means competition on the merits,

也就是良性競爭，

that you compete on the quality of your products,

你要靠你的產品品質、

the prices you can offer,

提供的價格、

the services, the innovation that you produce.

服務、創新來競爭。

That's competition on the merits.

這樣才是良性競爭。

You have a fair chance of making it on such a market.

在這樣的市場上， 你才有公平的成功機會。

And it's my job,

而身為歐盟

as Commissioner for Competition,

競爭委員會的委員長， 我的工作是

to make sure that companies who do business in Europe

確保在歐洲做生意的公司

live by those rules.

能因為這些規則， 可以安心地做生意。

But let's take a step back.

但，讓我們先退一步想想。

Why do we need rules on competition at all?

為什麼競爭還需要定規則？

Why not just let businesses compete?

為什麼不放任企業去競爭就好了？

Isn't that also the best for us

如果它們能自由競爭，

if they compete freely,

對我們不是最好的嗎？

since more competition

畢竟，越多競爭

drives more quality,

會帶動更好的品質、

lower prices, more innovation?

更低的價格、更多的創新，不是嗎？

Well, mostly it is.

嗯，大致上來說是沒錯。

But the problem is that sometimes, for businesses,

問題是，有時候，對企業來說，

competition can be inconvenient,

競爭會帶來不方便，

because competition means that the race is never over,

因為競爭意味著， 賽跑永遠不會結束，

the game is never won.

永遠沒有比賽贏家。

No matter how well you were doing in the past,

不論你在過去做得多好，

there's always someone

總有某個人

who are out there wanting to take your place.

等著要取代你的位置。

So the temptation to avoid competition

所以，規避競爭的誘惑

is powerful.

是很強大的。

It's rooted in motives as old as Adam and Eve:

它深根在與亞當夏娃 一樣古老的動機裡面：

in greed for yet more money,

這些動機包括：對錢的貪婪、

in fear of losing your position in the market

怕失去在市場上地位的恐懼感、

and all the benefits it brings.

還有它帶來的所有利益。

And when greed and fear

當貪婪和恐懼

are linked to power,

跟權力連結在一起，

you have a dangerous mix.

就是一種很危險的組合。

We see that in political life.

我們在政治生態中可以看到這點。

In part of the world,

在世界的某些地區，

the mix of greed and fear

貪婪和恐懼的結合

means that those who get power

意味著取得權力的人

become reluctant to give it back.

會不願意把權力交回。

One of the many things

而民主，

I like and admire in our democracies

讓我很喜歡和欣賞的其中一點

are the norms

就是規範，

that make our leaders hand over power

當投票者要求我們的領袖 把權力交出來時，

when voters tell them to.

他們就必須要交出來。

And competition rules can do a similar thing in the market,

在市場上，競爭規則 也有類似的作用，

making sure that greed and fear doesn't overcome fairness.

它能確保貪婪和恐懼不會戰勝公平。

Because those rules mean

因為那些規則意味著

that companies cannot misuse their power to undermine competition.

公司無法濫用它們的 權力來破壞競爭。

Think for a moment about your car.

試想你的汽車

It has thousands of parts,

有數以千計的零件，

from the foam that makes the seats

從做椅子用的泡沫材料，

to the electrical wiring to the light bulbs.

到電力線路，到燈泡都是。

And for many of those parts,

很多零件的提供，

the world's carmakers,

世界上的汽車製造商

they are dependent on only a few suppliers.

只能仰賴少數的供應商。

So it's hardly surprising

所以，並不意外

that it is kind of tempting for those suppliers

會有某種誘因

讓那些供應商想要聯合定價。

to come together and fix prices.

But just imagine what that could do

但，想像一下，這對市場上

to the final price of your new car in the market.

新車的最終價格會有什麼樣的影響。

Except, it's not imaginary.

此外，這並非想像出來的。

The European Commission

歐盟執行委員會

has dealt with already seven different car parts cartels,

已經處理過七件不同的 汽車零件企業聯合壟斷行為，

and we're still investigating some.

還有一些案件仍在調查中。

Here, the Department of Justice

而這裡的司法部

are also looking into the market for car parts,

也在調查汽車零件的市場，

and it has called it the biggest criminal investigation

而司法部說這是它們所進行過

it has ever pursued.

最大的犯罪調查。

But without competition rules,

但若沒有競爭規則，

there would be no investigation,

就不會有調查，

and there would be nothing to stop this collusion from happening

就沒有什麼能夠阻止共謀的發生，

and the prices of your car to go up.

而你的汽車價格就會上漲。

Yet it's not only companies

但，不只是公司

who can undermine fair competition.

會破壞競爭。

Governments can do it, too.

政府也會。

And governments do that when they hand out subsidies

政府分發補助金給

少數幾個他們喜歡的對象。

to just the favorite few, the selected.

They may do that when they hand out subsidies --

他們發補助金的行為 就是一種不公平的競爭，

and, of course, all financed by taxpayers --

當然，這些錢全都是由我們

納稅人及公司買單。

to companies.

That may be in the form of special tax treatments,

採用的形式可能是 特別的課稅方式，

like the tax benefits

比如稅率優惠，

that firms like Fiat, Starbucks and Apple got

像飛雅特、星巴克、蘋果這些 公司，都有從歐洲的一些政府

from some governments in Europe.

得到類似這樣的利益。

Those subsidies stop companies from competing on equal terms.

那些補助，阻礙了公司之間的公平競爭。

They can mean that the companies that succeed,

也就是說：成功的公司

well, they are the companies that got the most subsidy,

會拿走大部分的補助款，

the ones that are the best-connected,

或是擁有最好關係的公司拿走，

and not, as it should be,

而不是，雖然應該

the companies that serve consumers the best.

是由提供消費者 最佳服務的公司獲得補助。

So there are times when we need to step in

所以有時候需要我們介入，

to make sure that competition works the way it should.

來確保競爭都是依照 應該的方式來運作。

By doing that, we help the market to work fairly,

透過這麼做，我們能 協助市場公平運作，

because competition gives consumers the power to demand a fair deal.

因為競爭給予消費者 要求公平交易的權力。

It means that companies know that if they cannot offer good prices

那意味著，公司知道如果 它們無法提供好的價格

or the service that's expected,

或是預期的服務，

well, the customers will go somewhere else.

那麼，消費者就會去找別家公司。

And that sort of fairness is more important

那種公平性的重要程度，

than we may sometimes realize.

比我們所了解的還要高。

Very few people think about politics all the time.

很少人會隨時都在想政治。

Some even skip it at election time.

有些人甚至在選舉時都不會去投票。

But we are all in the market.

但我們都在市場裡。

Every day, we are in the market.

每天，我們都在市場裡。

And we don't want businesses to agree on prices in the back office.

我們並不想要企業在背後 對價格上下其手。

We don't want them to divide the market between them.

我們不想要它們彼此間瓜分市場。

We don't want one big company

我們不想要一家大公司

just to shut out competitors

把其它競爭者擋在門外，

from ever showing us what they can do.

讓我們看不見後者能做什麼。

If that happens,

如果那種情況發生了，

well, obviously, we feel that someone has cheated us,

很明顯地，我們會覺得 有人欺騙了我們，

that we are being ignored or taken for granted by the market.

我們被忽視了、或是被市場予取予求。

And that may undermine not only our trust in the market

那可能會破壞我們對市場的信任、

but also our trust in the society.

也會破壞我們對社會的信任。

In a recent survey,

在一項近期的調查中，

more than two-thirds of Europeans

超過三分之二的歐洲人

said that they had felt the effects of lack of competition:

說他們感受到了 缺乏競爭所造成的效應：

that the price for electricity was too high,

電價太貴，

that the price for the medicines they needed was too high,

他們所需之藥品的價格太高，

that they had no real choice

他們沒有辦法選擇

if they wanted to travel by bus or by plane,

要坐巴士或是飛機旅行，

or they got poor service from their internet provider.

或是網際網路提供者 提供給他們的服務很糟。

In short, they found that the market didn't treat them fairly.

簡言之，他們發現， 市場並沒有公平對待他們。

And that might seem like very small things,

那可能看起來只是件小事，

but they can give you this sense

但這些小事會讓你覺得

that the world isn't really fair.

世界其實並不公平。

And they see the market, which was supposed to serve everyone,

市場本來應該是要服務 每個人的，但他們卻看到市場

become more like the private property of a few powerful companies.

變成更像是少數 強大公司的私人財產。

The market is not the society.

市場並不是社會。

Our societies are, of course, much, much more than the market.

當然，我們的社會遠遠超過市場。

But lack of trust in the market

但缺乏對市場的信任，

can rub off on society

可能會對社會產生影響，

so we lose trust in our society as well.

所以我們也會失去對社會的信任。

And it may be the most important thing we have, trust.

而我們所擁有的東西當中， 最重要的可能就是信任。

We can trust each other if we are treated as equals.

如果我們被平等對待， 我們就能信任彼此。

If we are all to have the same chances,

如果我們都有同樣的機會，

well, we all have to follow the same fundamental rules.

我們都得要遵循同樣的根本規則，

Of course, some people and some businesses are more successful than others,

當然，有些人或企業比 其他人或企業更成功，

but we do not trust in a society

但如果獎品在比賽開始之前

if the prizes are handed out

就已經先給出去的話，

even before the contest begins.

我們是不可能會相信這個社會的。

And this is where competition rules come in,

這就是需要競爭規則的原因了，

because when we make sure that markets work fairly,

因為當我們能確保市場公平運作，

then businesses compete on the merits,

那麼企業之間就能良性競爭，

and that helps to build the trust that we need as citizens

那就能夠協助建立信任， 我們公民需要這種信任

to feel comfortable and in control,

才能感到到社會是舒服且有秩序的，

and the trust that allows our society to work.

這種信任也會讓 我們的社會能夠運作。

Because without trust, everything becomes harder.

因為，若沒有信任， 一切都會變得比較困難。

Just to live our daily lives, we need to trust in strangers,

光是日常生活， 我們就需要信任陌生人，

to trust the banks who keep our money,

信任我們存款的銀行，

the builders who build our home,

信任建造我們房子的建商，

the electrician who comes to fix the wiring,

信任來家裡修電路的電工，

the doctor who treats us when we're ill,

信任我們生病時治療我們的醫生，

not to mention the other drivers on the road,

更不用說信任路上的其他駕駛人，

and everyone knows that they are crazy.

人人都知道他們是很瘋狂的。

And yet, we have to trust them

但，我們得要信任他們，

to do the right thing.

信任他們會做對的事。

And the thing is that the more our societies grow,

重點是，我們的社會越是成長，

the more important trust becomes

信任就變得越重要，

and the harder it is to build.

但也越難去建立信任。

And that is a paradox of modern societies.

那就是現代社會的矛盾。

And this is especially true

當科技改變了我們互動的方式時，

when technology changes the way that we interact.

這點就更是重要。

Of course, to some degree, technology can help us

當然，某種程度上， 科技可以協助我們，

to build trust in one another with ratings systems and other systems

用實現共享經濟的 評分系統和其它系統

that enable the sharing economy.

來建立彼此的信任。

But technology also creates completely new challenges

但科技也創造出全新的挑戰，

when they ask us not to trust in other people

科技要求我們不要信任其他人，

but to trust in algorithms and computers.

而要信任演算法和電腦。

Of course, we all see and share and appreciate

當然，我們都能看見、共享、感激

all the good that new technology can do us.

新科技帶給我們的所有好處。

It's a lot of good.

好處有很多。

Autonomous cars can give people with disabilities new independence.

自動駕駛汽車能讓殘疾者 有新的獨立性。

It can save us all time,

科技能幫我們省下時間，

and it can make a much, much better use of resources.

科技能把資源做更好更多的利用。

Algorithms that rely on crunching enormous amounts of data

用來分析大量資料的演算法

can enable our doctors to give us a much better treatment,

讓我們的醫生能夠 給予我們更好的治療，

and many other things.

還有很多其它的好處。

But no one is going to hand over their medical data

但沒有人會把他們的 醫療資料交出來，

or step into a car that's driven by an algorithm

也沒有人會坐上一台 由演算法來駕駛的汽車，

unless they trust the companies that they are dealing with.

除非他們信任與 他們打交道的公司。

And that trust isn't always there.

但那種信任並不是一直都存在的。

Today, for example, less than a quarter of Europeans

比如，現今，不到四分之一的歐洲人

trust online businesses to protect their personal information.

信任線上企業會 保護他們的個人資訊。

But what if people knew

但如果人們知道

that they could rely on technology companies

他們能夠信賴科技公司

to treat them fairly?

會公平對待他們呢？

What if they knew that those companies

如果他們知道那些公司

respond to competition by trying to do better,

面對競爭的因應方式 是把產品做得更好、

by trying to serve consumers better,

提供消費者更好的服務，

not by using their power

而不是用它們的權力

to shut out competitors,

來阻擋競爭者，

say, by pushing their services

比如，把它們的服務

far, far down the list of search results

推到搜尋結果列表的最最最下端，

and promoting themselves?

然後只促銷它們自己的？

What if they knew that compliance with the rules

如果他們知道， 在設計這些演算法的時候

was built into the algorithms by design,

就有把對於這些規則 的遵循給內建進去，

that the algorithm had to go to competition rules school

讓那些演算法必須要先 進入競爭規則學校學習，

before they were ever allowed to work,

然後才可以被允許開始運作，

that those algorithms were designed

且這些演算法被設計成

in a way that meant that they couldn't collude,

沒有辦法共謀，

that they couldn't form their own little cartel

讓它們無法在它們運作的黑盒子中形成

in the black box they're working in?

小型的聯合壟斷行為，那會如何？

Together with regulation,

加上了規範，

competition rules can do that.

競爭規則就能做到那樣。

They can help us to make sure

它們能協助我們確保

that new technology treats people fairly

新科技會公平待人，

and that everyone can compete on a level playing field.

讓每個人都可以在 市場上公平競爭。

And that can help us build the trust

那就能協助我們建立信任，

that we need for real innovation

我們需要信任才能做真正的創新，

to flourish

才能興旺繁榮，

and for societies to develop for citizens.

社會才能進步、人民才能受惠。

Because trust cannot be imposed.

因為信任不是能夠強加於人的。

It has to be earned.

信任是掙來的。

Since the very first days of the European Union,

自從歐盟的最初時期，

60 years ago,

六十年前，

our competition rules have helped

我們的競爭規則一直在協助

to build that trust.

建立那樣的信任。

A lot of things have changed.

很多事物都改變了。

It's hard to say what those six representatives

很難說那六位代表

would have made of a smartphone.

會怎麼看待智慧型手機。

But in today's world,

但在現今的世界上，

as well as in their world,

以及在他們的世界上，

competition makes the market work for everyone.

市場因為競爭讓所有人受益。

And that is why I am convinced

這就是為什麼我深信，

that real and fair competition

真正的、公平的競爭

has a vital role to play

扮演著關鍵的角色，

in building the trust we need

它能協助建立我們需要的信任，

to get the best of our societies,

來讓我們的社會呈現最好的一面，

and that starts with enforcing our rules,

而這一切會從強力執行 我們的規則開始，

actually just to make the market work for everyone.

讓市場能為每個人服務。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Bruno Giussani: Thank you.

布魯諾吉尤薩尼：謝謝你。

Thank you, Commissioner.

謝謝你，委員長。

Margrethe Vestager: It was a pleasure.

瑪格蕾莎維絲塔格：是我的榮幸。

BG: I want to ask you two questions.

布魯諾：我有兩個問題想請教。

The first one is about data, because I have the impression

第一個問題與資料有關， 因為我的印象是

that technology and data are changing the way competition takes place

科技和資料會改變競爭的方式

and the way competition regulation is designed and enforced.

也會改變競爭的設計與執行的方式。

Can you maybe comment on that?

你能否對此發表意見？

MV: Well, yes, it is definitely challenging us,

瑪格蕾莎：是的， 它的確在挑戰著我們，

because we both have to sharpen our tools

因為我們得要磨礪我們的工具，

but also to develop new tools.

也要開發新的工具。

When we were going through the Google responses

當我們去探究 Google 對我們提出的異議

to our statement of objection,

所做的回應，

we were going through 5.2 terabytes of data.

我們面對的是 5.2TB 的資料量。

It's quite a lot.

這數量很驚人。

So we had to set up new systems.

所以我們得要建立新的系統。

We had to figure out how to do this,

我們得要想出如何做，

because you cannot work the way you did just a few years ago.

因為幾年前的方法已經行不通了。

So we are definitely sharpening up our working methods.

所以我們肯定得 精進我們的作業方法。

The other thing is that we try to distinguish

另外一件事是，我們嘗試著

between different kinds of data,

區別出不同類型的資料，

because some data is extremely valuable

因為有些資料是極度珍貴的，

and they will form, like, a barrier to entry in a market.

而它們會形成進入市場的障礙。

Other things you can just -- it loses its value tomorrow.

其它事情你可以直接…… 它明天就失去價值了。

So we try to make sure

所以我們試圖要確保

that we never, ever underestimate the fact

我們永遠不會低估資料在市場中

that data works as a currency in the market

以一種貨幣形式來運作的事實，

and as an asset that can be a real barrier for competition.

且資料也是種會 真正阻礙競爭的資產。

BG: Google. You fined them 2.8 billion euros a few months ago.

布魯諾：幾個月前， 你們對 Google 開罰 28 億歐元。

MV: No, that was dollars. It's not so strong these days.

瑪格蕾莎：不，是美元。 現在它已經不那麼強勢了。

BG: Ah, well, depends on the --

布魯諾：啊，嗯，那就要看…

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Google appealed the case. The case is going to court.

Google 對這案子提出上訴， 接下來會上法庭。

It will last a while.

它會持續一段時間。

Earlier, last year, you asked Apple to pay 13 billion in back taxes,

先前，去年，你要求蘋果 補繳 130 億元的稅款，

and you have also investigated other companies,

你也調查了其它公司，

including European and Russian companies,

包括歐洲和俄國公司，

not only American companies, by far.

顯然不只是美國公司。

Yet the investigations against the American companies

但，針對美國公司的調查

are the ones that have attracted the most attention

是最吸引注意力的調查，

and they have also attracted some accusations.

也是吸引最多控訴的調查。

You have been accused, essentially, of protectionism, of jealousy,

你曾被指控，基本上， 是個保護主義者、善妒忌、

or using legislation to hit back at American companies

或是立法來打擊那些

that have conquered European markets.

征服歐洲市場的美國公司。

"The Economist" just this week on the front page writes,

《經濟人》這週的頭版寫著：

"Vestager Versus The Valley."

「維絲塔格摃上矽谷」。

How do you react to that?

妳的回應是什麼？

MV: Well, first of all, I take it very seriously,

瑪格蕾莎：首先， 我很嚴肅看待此事，

because bias has no room in law enforcement.

因為在執法上是不容許偏見的。

We have to prove our cases with the evidence and the facts

我們必須要用證據、事實、法庭判例

and the jurisprudence

來證明我們的案件，

in order also to present it to the courts.

才能夠在法庭上提出來。

The second thing is that Europe is open for business,

第二點，歐洲是 開放給大家做生意的，

but not for tax evasion.

但不是給大家逃稅用的。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

The thing is that we are changing,

重點是，我們在改變，

and for instance, when I ask my daughters --

比如，當我問我的女兒們──

they use Google as well --

她們也用 Google──

"Why do you do that?"

「妳們為什麼要用 Google ？」

They say, "Well, because it works. It's a very good product."

她們說：「因為它好用。 它是很好的產品。」

They would never, ever, come up with the answer,

她們永遠不會回答說：

"It's because it's a US product."

「因為它是美國產品。」

It's just because it works.

只是因為它好用。

And that is of course how it should be.

當然，也應該要這樣才對。

But just the same, it is important that someone is looking after to say,

但，同樣重要的是， 會有監管的人說：

"Well, we congratulate you

「嗯，我們恭喜你，

while you grow and grow and grow,

恭喜你不斷成長再成長。

but congratulation stops

但我們會停止恭喜，

if we find that you're misusing your position

如果發現了你濫用優勢

to harm competitors so that they cannot serve consumers."

去傷害競爭者，

讓他們無法服務消費者。」

BG: It will be a fascinating case to follow.

布魯諾：這個案件很值得追蹤後續。

Thank you for coming to TED.

謝謝你來 TED。

MV: It was a pleasure. Thanks a lot.

瑪格蕾莎：是我的榮幸。非常謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）