What foods did your ancestors love? Aparna Pallavi

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

Translator: 小文 谢 Reviewer: H.L. Au

Last year, I was living with this indigenous family in India.

舊年我住喺一個印度本地人屋企

One afternoon,

有一個晏晝

the young son was eating,

佢哋嘅細仔食緊飯

and at the sight of me, he quickly hid his curry behind his back.

一見到我，就將佢嘅咖喱收喺背後

It took a lot of persuasion to get him to show me what he was eating.

說服咗佢好耐先佢畀我睇佢食緊咩

It turned out to be moth larvae,

原來係蛾嘅幼蟲

a traditional delicacy with the Madia indigenous people.

一種馬迪亞當地人嘅傳統美食

I cried,

我喊住話：

"Oh my God, you're eating these!

「我呀，你食緊呢啲嘢！

I hope there's a little left for me!"

希望你有剩返啲畀我食啦。」

I saw disbelief in the boy's eyes.

然後我見到個男仔難以置信嘅眼神

"You ... eat these?"

「你…要食呢啲？」

"I love these," I replied.

我答：「我超鍾意食。」

I could see he did not trust me one bit.

我睇得出佢完全唔信我

How could an urban, educated woman like the same food as him?

一個城市嚟又受過教育嘅女人

點會同佢鍾意食同樣嘅嘢？

Later, I broached the subject with his father,

後來，我同佢爸爸討論呢個話題

and it turned out to be a mighty touchy affair.

原來係一件極敏感嘅事嚟

He said things like,

佢講咗顃似嘅嘢：

"Oh, only this son of mine likes to eat it.

「哦。得呢個仔鍾意食蛾嘅幼蟲，

We tell him, 'Give it up. It's bad.'

我哋同佢講咪再食啦，唔好㗎

He doesn't listen, you see.

但你都見啦，佢唔聽我哋講

我哋冇食好耐啦。」

We gave up eating all this ages back."

"Why?" I asked.

我問佢哋：「點解呀？

"This is your traditional food.

係你哋嘅傳統食物嚟。

It is available in your environment,

喺你哋嘅生活環境搵到

it is nutritious,

好有營養價值

and -- I can vouch for it -- delicious.

而且—我保證—好好食

Why is it wrong to eat it?"

食佢有咩問題？」

The man fell silent.

然後佢爸爸冇出聲

I asked,

我問佢：

"Have you been told that your food is bad,

「係咪有人同你講過你啲食物唔好

that to eat it is backward,

係退化嘅

not civilized?"

冇文化嘅？」

He nodded silently.

他沉默咁點頭

This was one of the many, many times in my work with indigenous people in India

呢次只係我同無數印度當地人做嘢時

that I witnessed shame around food,

見證到佢哋以食物為恥嘅其中一次

shame that the food you love to eat,

食你鍾意嘅食物

the food that has been eaten for generations,

世世代代都一直食緊嘅食物

is somehow inferior,

係低級嘅

even subhuman.

甚至係低人一等嘅

And this shame is not limited to out-of-the-way, icky foods

而且呢種羞恥感唔單止係講 一啲冷門、嘔心嘅食物

like insects or rats, maybe,

可能係，例如昆蟲、老鼠

but extends to regular foods:

仲擴展到去正常食物：

white vegetables,

白色蔬菜

mushrooms, flowers --

菌類，花—

basically, anything that is foraged rather than cultivated.

基本上就係所有野生 而唔係農民種植嘅食物

In indigenous India, this shame is omnipresent.

呢種以食物為恥嘅現象 喺印度當地普遍存在

Anything can trigger it.

任何因素都可能引起呢種羞恥感

One upper-caste vegetarian schoolmaster gets appointed in a school,

指派上流社會嘅素食校長去一間學校

within weeks, children are telling their parents it's yucky to eat crabs

啲學生唔洗幾個星期， 就同父母講食蟹好核突呀

or sinful to eat meat.

或者食肉會有罪惡感

A government nutrition program serves fluffy white rice,

政府提供鬆軟白飯嘅營養計劃

now no one wants to eat red rice or millets.

就令到宜家冇人想食紅米或者小米

A nonprofit reaches this village with an ideal diet chart for pregnant women.

一個非貿利組織嚟到呢個小鎮 為孕婦能提供理想嘅膳食搭配

There you go.

就係咁

All the expectant mothers are feeling sad

全部孕婦都好傷心

that they cannot afford apples and crepes.

因為佢哋買唔起蘋果同法式薄餅

And people just kind of forget the fruits

而大家似乎都唔記得咗

that can be picked off the forest floor.

啲水果其實係森林地下就執到

Health workers,

醫療人員

religious missionaries,

傳教士

random government employees

政府官員

and even their own educated children

或者係佢哋受過教育嘅子女

are literally shouting it down at the indigenous people

都係大大聲同啲本地人講

that their food is not good enough,

佢哋嘅食物唔夠好

not civilized enough.

唔夠文明

And so food keeps disappearing,

所以呢啲食物就一啲一啲咁

a little bit at a time.

逐漸消失

I'm wondering if you all have ever considered

我好奇你哋有冇認真諗過

whether your communities would have a similar history around food.

你社交圈子嘅人有冇類似嘅經歷

If you were to talk to your 90-year-old grandmother,

如果當你同 90 歲嘅婆婆傾計

would she talk about foods that you have never seen or heard of?

佢會唔會講起啲 你從未見過或聽過嘅食物

Are you aware how much of your community's food

你有冇發現有幾多你哋食開嘅食物

is no longer available to you?

已經再搵唔返啦

Local experts tell me

當地專家同我講

that the South African food economy is now entirely based on imported foods.

南非宜家嘅食物經濟鏈 完全依靠進口食物

Corn has become the staple,

栗米成為咗主食

while the local sorghum, millets, bulbs and tubers are all gone.

然而本土嘅高粱，小米， 球莖同塊莖類食物都消失哂

So are the wild legumes and vegetables,

當大家食緊薯仔、洋葱、 椰菜同紅蘿蔔嘅時候

while people eat potatoes and onions, cabbages and carrots.

野生豆類同蔬菜都一樣消失哂

In my country,

喺我嘅國家

this loss of food is colossal.

呢啲食物損失極為龐大

Modern India is stuck with rice, wheat

現代印度充住大米、小麥

and diabetes.

同糖尿病

And we have totally forgotten foods like huge varieties of tubers,

而且我哋完全唔記得一啲食物 例如各式各樣嘅塊莖類

tree saps, fish, shellfish,

樹液、魚、貝類

oil seeds,

油籽、

mollusks, mushrooms, insects,

蚌類、菌類、昆蟲

small, nonendangered animal meats,

小型、未瀕危動物肉類

all of which used to be available right within our surroundings.

呢一切曾經都係唾手可得

So where has this food gone?

到底宜家呢啲食物去哂邊？

Why are our modern food baskets so narrow?

點解現代社會食物種類咁少？

We could talk about the complex political economic and ecological reasons,

我哋可以講吓 複雜嘅政治經濟同生態原因

but I am here to talk about this more human phenomenon of shame,

但我今日想講嘅係 呢種令人覺得羞恥嘅現象

because shame is the crucial point

因為羞恥先係

at which food actually disappears off your plate.

你碟上面食物消失嘅致命點

What does shame do?

羞恥會做啲咩？

Shame makes you feel small,

羞恥令你感到渺小

sad,

失落

not worthy,

冇價值

subhuman.

次人一等

Shame creates a cognitive dissonance.

羞恥可以創造一種認知失調

It distorts food stories.

可以歪曲食物故事

Let us take this example.

我可以舉個例子

How would you like to have

你想唔想要一種

a wonderful, versatile staple

奇妙又多功能嘅主食

that is available abundantly in your environment?

係喺你身邊隨處可見嘅？

All you have to do is gather it,

你只需要過去收集佢

dry it, store it,

風乾，收好

and you have it for your whole year

然後你就可以成年都擁有啦

to cook as many different kinds of dishes as you want with it.

可以用佢嚟做無數道你鍾意嘅菜式

India had just such a food, called "mahua,"

印度就曾經有呢種食物叫做馬胡卡

this flower over there.

就係呢種花

And I have been researching this food for the past three years now.

過去三年我一直搵緊呢種食物

It is known to be highly nutritious in indigenous tradition

係當地傳統同科學知識記載嘅

and in scientific knowledge.

富有極高營養價值嘅食物

佢以前係當地人

For the indigenous,

it used to be a staple for four to six months a year.

一年嘅四至六個月嘅主食

In many ways, it is very similar to your local marula,

佢好多方面 都似你哋嘅馬魯拉果（marula)

except that it is a flower, not a fruit.

只係佢係花，而唔係水果

Where the forests are rich,

喺豐盛嘅森林入面

people can still get enough to eat for the whole year

大家仍然可以收獲到成年嘅糧食

and enough spare to sell.

而且仲有淨可以拎去賣

I found 35 different dishes with mahua

我搵到 35 種唔同嘅馬胡卡菜式

that no one cooks anymore.

宜家已經冇人會再煮

This food is no longer even recognized as a food,

佢甚至唔再比人視為食物

but as raw material for liquor.

而只係一種釀酒原料

You could be arrested for having it in your house.

只係屋企藏有呢種食物 就已經可以拉你

Reason? Shame.

點解？ 因為羞恥

I talked to indigenous people all over India

我問過所有印度當地人

about why mahua is no longer eaten.

點解冇人再吃馬胡卡

And I got the exact same answer.

都係得到一模一樣嘅答案

"Oh, we used to eat it when we were dirt-poor and starving.

「哦，以前係因為又窮又餓先食啫

Why should we eat it now?

宜家做乜要食？

We have rice or wheat."

都有大米同小麥啦。」

And almost in the same breath,

與此同時

people also tell me how nutritious mahua is.

佢哋都話我知馬胡卡幾有營養價值

There are always stories of elders who used to eat mahua.

實會聽到老人家食馬胡卡嘅故事

"This grandmother of ours, she had 10 children,

「我哋婆婆有 10 個細路

and still she used to work so hard, never tired, never sick."

佢以前做嘢好辛苦 但從未試過攰或者病。」

The exact same dual narrative every single where.

周圍都聽到呢兩個一樣嘅故事

How come?

點解？

How does the same food

點解同一樣食物

get to be seen as very nutritious and a poverty food,

喺差唔多同一句嘢到

同時畀人認為富有營養價值 又象征住貧窮？

almost in the same sentence?

Same goes for other forest foods.

森林嘅食物都一樣

I have heard story after heartrending story

我聽過一個又一個

of famine and starvation,

關於饑荒同挨餓令人心碎嘅故事

of people surviving on trash foraged out of the forest,

大家要靠食森林搵到嘅垃圾為生

because there was no food.

因為冇嘢食

If I dig a little deeper,

如果我再深究少少

it turns out the lack was not of food per se

原來唔係冇食物

but of something respectable like rice.

而係冇好似米一樣咁體面嘅食物

I asked them,

我問佢哋

"How did you learn that your so-called trash is edible?

你哋點知道 呢啲所謂嘅垃圾係食得？

Who told you that certain bitter tubers can be sweetened

邊個同你講呢啲咁苦嘅塊莖

by leaving them in a stream overnight?

放喺溪入面一晚就會變甜？

Or how to take the meat out of a snail shell?

或者點識拎蝸牛殼入面嘅肉？

Or how to set a trap for a wild rat?"

又點識設置陷阱捉老鼠？」

That is when they start scratching their heads,

呢個時候佢哋就開始抓頭

and they realize that they learned it from their own elders,

然後就意識到係長輩教過佢哋

that their ancestors had lived and thrived on these foods for centuries

佢哋嘅祖先係食米之前

before rice came their way,

呢啲嘢食已經興盛咗幾個世紀

and were way healthier than their own generation.

而佢哋仲健康過宜家呢個世代好多

So this is how food works,

呢啲就係食物嘅作用

how shame works:

呢啲就係羞恥嘅作用：

making food and food traditions disappear from people's lives and memories

令食物同食物傳統 係大家嘅生活同記憶中消失

甚至佢哋都唔覺嘅情況下

without their even realizing it.

So how do we undo this trend?

咁我哋點逆轉呢種趨勢呢？

How do we reclaim our beautiful and complex systems of natural food,

點樣重拾返我哋 美麗又複雜嘅自然食物系統

food given to us lovingly by Mother Earth according to her own rhythm,

呢啲食物係地球媽媽有愛咁 用佢自己嘅節奏咁賜予我哋

food prepared by our foremothers with joy

由我哋先祖媽媽用喜悅準備嘅

and are eaten by our forefathers with gratitude,

再由我哋先祖爸爸滿懷感激咁食

food that is healthy, local, natural,

又健康、土生土長、自然、

varied, delicious,

多樣、好味、

not requiring cultivation,

唔需要耕種

not damaging our ecology,

唔會破壞我哋生態系統

not costing a thing?

唔需要任何代價嘅食物

We all need this food,

我哋都需要呢啲食物

and I don't think I have to tell you why.

我諗唔洗講你哋都知點解

I don't have to tell you about the global health crisis,

我唔需要同你哋講健康危機、

climate change, water crisis,

氣候變化、水源危機、

soil fatigue,

土壤退化、

collapsing agricultural systems,

農業系統崩潰、

all that.

所有呢啲危機

But for me, equally important reasons why we need these foods

但對我嚟講同樣咁重要嘅原因

are the deeply felt ones,

係我身同感受嘅原因

because food is so many things, you see.

因為食物代表好多嘢

Food is nourishment, comfort,

食物係營養、舒適感

creativity, community,

創造力、凝聚力、

pleasure, safety, identity

愉悅、安全、身份

and so much more.

仲有更多更多

How we connect with our food

咁我哋點同食物連繫

defines so much in our lives.

定義咗我哋嘅生命好多面

It defines how we connect with our bodies,

定義咗我哋點同身體連繫

because our bodies are ultimately food.

因為我哋身體終究都係由食物組成

It defines our basic sense of connection

定義咗我哋存在嘅基本連繫感知

with our existence.

We need these foods most today

今日係我哋最需要呢啲食物嘅時候

to be able to redefine our space as humans

先可以定義到我哋人類

within the natural scheme of things.

喺大自然結構中嘅位置

And are we needing such a redefinition today?

咁我哋需要咁重新定義咩？

For me, the only real answer is love,

對我嚟講，唯一嘅真正答案係愛

because love is the only thing that counters shame.

因為只有愛可以對抗羞恥

And how do we bring more of this love into our connections with our food?

咁點樣帶到更多嘅愛 去我哋同食物嘅連繫呢？

For me, love is, in a big way,

對我嚟講，愛，好大程度上

about the willingness to slow down,

就係甘願去放慢

to take the time to feel,

用時間去感受、

sense, listen, inquire.

感應、傾聽、發問

It could be listening to our own bodies.

可以係傾聽我哋嘅身體

What do they need beneath our food habits, beliefs

飲食習慣、信仰、嗜好之下

and addictions?

我哋嘅身體需要啲咩？

It could be taking time out to examine those beliefs.

愛可以用時間嚟研究呢啲信仰

Where did they come from?

佢哋嚟自邊到？

It could be going back into our childhood.

可以追溯到我哋童年

What foods did we love then,

細個嘅時候鍾意食咩

and what has changed?

又咩唔同咗

It could be spending a quiet evening with an elder,

可以用個靜謐嘅夜晚同長輩傾偈

listening to their food memories,

聽吓佢哋對食物嘅回憶

maybe even helping them cook something they love

或者幫佢哋手煮啲佢哋鍾意食嘅嘢

and sharing a meal.

然後一齊食

Love could be about remembering

愛可以係銘記

that humanity is vast

人性係豐富嘅

and food choices differ.

而食物選擇係多樣嘅

It could be about showing respect and curiosity

愛可以係向人展示出尊重同好奇

instead of censure

而唔係譴責

when we see somebody enjoying a really unfamiliar food.

當見到人享受緊一種好陌生嘅食物

Love could be taking the time to inquire,

愛可以係用時間嚟發問、

to dig up information,

發掘更多資訊

reach out for connections.

主動去連繫

It could even be a quiet walk in the fynbos

愛甚至可以靜靜咁喺弗因博斯散步

to see if a certain plant speaks up to you.

睇吓有冇特定嘅一種植物同你講嘢

That happens.

會㗎

They speak to me all the time.

佢哋成日都同我講嘢

And most of all,

最重要係

love is to trust that these little exploratory steps

愛係相信呢啲小小嘅探索腳步

have the potential to lead us to something larger,

都有可能帶領到我哋搵到更大

sometimes to really surprising answers.

有時仲有係好令人驚喜嘅答案

An indigenous medicine woman once told me

有個當地賣藥嘅女人同我講過

that love is to walk on Mother Earth

愛就係以地球媽媽最愛之子嘅身份

as her most beloved child,

喺佢身上行走

to trust that she values an honest intention

並且堅信佢重視真誠之心

and knows how to guide our steps.

知道佢會點樣指導我哋嘅每一步

I hope I have inspired you

我希望今日有啟發到各位

to start reconnecting with the food of your ancestors.

開始重新同你哋祖先嘅食物連繫

Thank you for listening.

多謝你哋傾聽

(Applause)

（掌聲）