Philip Rosedale: Second Life, where anything is possible

翻译人员: Zhijun Wang 校对人员: tian zeng

You know, we're going to do things a little differently.

大家好，今天我想换一种方式来做这个演讲

I'm not going to show you a presentation. I'm going to talk to you.

我不想很正式地站在这里讲，而是通过聊天

And at the same time, we're going to look at just images

同时，给大家看一些图片

from a photo stream that is pretty close to live of things that --

都是截自“第二人生”的很逼真的生活场景

snapshots from Second Life. So hopefully this will be fascinating.

所以，希望你们能喜欢

You can -- I can compete for your attention with the strange pictures

同时，我也会尽量把大家的注意力

that you see on screen that come from there.

从这些奇特图片上吸引过来

I thought I'd talk a little bit about some just big ideas about this,

我想先谈一下关于这个（第二人生）的大的构想

and then get John back out here so we can talk interactively

然后我会请约翰回来，这样我们可以更加互动的交谈、

a little bit more and think and ask questions.

思考和提问

You know, I guess the first question is,

我想大家关心的第一个问题会是：

why build a virtual world at all?

为何要建立一个虚拟世界呢？

And I think the answer to that is always going to be

我认为在一定程度上源于

at least driven to a certain extent by the people

我自己--一个疯狂到了一定程度

initially crazy enough to start the project, you know.

来发起这个项目的人

So I can give you a little bit of first background just on me

先介绍一下我个人的背景资料

and what moved me as a -- really going back as far as a teenager

以及那些从小到大

and then an adult, to actually try and build this kind of thing.

真正触动我去尝试创立这个项目的因素

I was a very creative kid who read a lot, and got into electronics first,

我是个读书很多，很有创造力的孩子，最初迷上了电子设备

and then later, programming computers, when I was really young.

随后是电脑编程，那时我年龄还很小。

I was just always trying to make things.

我总是尝试去动手做东西

I was just obsessed with taking things apart and building things,

沉迷于拆装物件

and just anything I could do with my hands or with wood

以及任何手工可以完成的，用木头

or electronics or metal or anything else.

电子器件、金属等物品做的东西

And so, for example -- and it's a great Second Life thing -- I had a bedroom.

举个例子：我有一间卧室（这很有第二人生的感觉）

And every kid, you know, as a teenager, has got his bedroom he retreats to --

大家知道，每个十几岁的孩子，都拥有自己栖身的卧室

but I wanted my door, I thought it would be cool if my door went up

但是我想让卧室门能够像《星际旅行》中一样

rather than opened, like on Star Trek.

上升开启而不是正常打开，我觉得那将会很酷

I thought it would be neat to do that. And so I got up in the ceiling

因此我爬上天花板

and I cut through the ceiling joists, much to my parents' delight,

穿过天花板搁栅，（这让我父母很生气）

and put the door, you know, being pulled up through the ceiling.

把门拉了上来

I built -- I put a garage-door opener up in the attic

我把一个车库的开门机器放在阁楼上

that would pull this door up.

可以把门竖着拉上来

You can imagine the amount of time that it took me to do this to the house

你可以想象一下这花费了我多少时间来改造这间房屋

and the displeasure of my parents.

还要平息父母的不满

The thing that was always striking to me was that we as people

这件事情对我启发最深的是：人们

could have so many really amazing ideas about things we'd like to do,

对于自己喜欢的事情总有层出不穷的好想法

but are so often unable, in the real world, to actually do those things --

然而在真实的世界里，又通常无法真正实现

to actually cobble together the materials

既无法凑齐所需的材料

and go through the actual execution phase of building something

也无法在实际执行阶段

that you imagine from a design perspective.

来按照你脑海中的设计图来建造它

And so for me, I know that when the Internet came around

因此对于我来讲，互联网时代来临的时候

and I was doing computer programming and just, you know,

我正在编写电脑程序

just generally trying to run my own little company

努力运作我的小公司

and figure out what to do with the Internet and with computers,

我想应该通过互联网和电脑来做些事情

I was just immediately struck by how the ultimate thing

后来灵光一现，想到人们真正想使用

that you would really want to do with the Internet and with computers

互联网和电脑来做的事情

would be to use the Internet and connected computers

是通过互联网和电脑

to simulate a world to sort of recreate the laws of physics

来模拟一个世界，这个世界重构了物理的法则

and the rules of how things went together --

和世上万物相互联系的规则

the sort of -- the idea of atoms and how to make things,

也包括原子的概念和建筑的方法

and do that inside a computer so that we could all get in there and make stuff.

一切都在电脑中实现，我们都可以进入那个世界，并创造一些东西

And so for me that was the thing that was so enticing.

因此，这对于我来说相当诱人

I just wanted this place where you could build things.

我只想要有一个地方来供人们建设和创造

And so I think you see that in the genesis

所以，我想你们都了解了“第二人生”

of what has happened with Second Life, and I think it's important.

的来龙去脉，我认为这非常重要

I also think that more generally, the use of the Internet and technology

我还认为，更普遍的来讲，作为创意和设计的平台

as a kind of a space between us for creativity and design is a general trend.

互联网技术的应用是一个大趋势

It is a -- sort of a great human progress.

这是人类的一大进步

Technology is just generally being used to allow us to create

一般来说，技术只是用来让我们

in as shared and social a way as possible.

一边创造，一边去交流和分享

And I think that Second Life and virtual worlds more generally

我认为，“第二人生”乃至虚拟世界

represent the best we can do to achieve that right now.

代表了目前我们能做到的最高水准

You know, another way to look at that,

想象一下宇宙空间

and related to the content and, you know, thinking about space,

从另一个角度来看

is to connect sort of virtual worlds to space.

将虚拟世界和宇宙空间联系起来

I thought that might be a fun thing to talk about for a second.

这点比较有趣，值得花时间讨论一下

If you think about going into space, it's a fascinating thing.

如果你向往太空

So many movies, so many kids, we all sort of

很多的电影，很多的孩子

dream about exploring space. Now, why is that?

都梦想着遨游太空。为什么？

Stop for a moment and ask, why that conceit?

停下来反思一下，为什么大家都那样幻想？

Why do we as people want to do that?

为什么我们人类想要那么做？

I think there's a couple of things. It's what we see in the movies --

我觉得原因有很多。正如我们在电影中看到的

you know, it's this dream that we all share.

这是我们共同拥有的梦想

One is that if you went into space you'd be able to begin again.

如果你进入太空，你将可能重新开始

In some sense, you would become someone else in that journey,

你会变成另一个人

because there wouldn't be -- you'd leave society and life as you know it, behind.

把你所了解的社会和生活都忘掉

And so inevitably, you would transform yourself --

旅程开始之后，你将不可避免的改变自己

irreversibly, in all likelihood -- as you began this exploration.

而且这改变是不可逆的

And then the second thing is that there's this tangible sense

另一个原因是那种真实的感觉

that if you travel far enough, you can find out there --

如果你旅行的足够远，你会发现

oh, yeah -- you have no idea what you're going to find

自己一旦到达太空中

once you get there, into space.

未来是不可预测的

It's going to be different than here.

那种不一样的感觉

And in fact, it's going to be so different than what we see here on earth

与在地球上看到的完全不同

that anything is going to be possible.

凡事皆有可能

So that's kind of the idea -- we as humans crave the idea of

因此，我们渴望着创造一个新的身份

creating a new identity and going into a place where anything is possible.

生活在一个有无限可能的地方

And I think that if you really sit and think about it,

我想，如果你真正坐下来想一想

virtual worlds, and where we're going

虚拟世界，伴随着越来越先进的电脑技术

with more and more computing technology,

我们将走向何方，

represent essentially the likely, really tactically possible

它意味着空间探索

version of space exploration.

完全有实现的可能

We are moved by the idea of virtual worlds because, like space,

如同太空，我们也能被虚拟世界所打动，

they allow us to reinvent ourselves and they contain anything

它们让我们重生自我，它们无所不包

and everything, and probably anything could happen there.

蕴含无限可能

You know, to give you a size idea about scale, you know,

给大家一个规模的概念

comparing space to Second Life, most people don't realize, kind of --

大部分人意识不到，这就像是

and then this is just like the Internet in the early '90s.

20世纪90年代早期的互联网

In fact, Second Life virtual worlds are a lot like the Internet in the early '90s today:

事实上，“第二人生”虚拟世界更像是“90年代早期互联网”

everybody's very excited,

让所有人兴奋不已

there's a lot of hype and excitement about one idea or the next

每出现一个新概念，总有很多炒作和卖点

from moment to moment, and then there's despair

随着时间的推移,狂热之后变成绝望

and everybody thinks the whole thing's not going to work.

所有人都认为这件事情没有可能

Everything that's happening with Second Life

“第二人生”，甚至更广义上的虚拟世界

and more broadly with virtual worlds, all happened in the early '90s.

现在的处境，早在90年代初期就出现过。

We always play a game at the office where you can take any article

我们在办公室总做一个游戏，拿任何一篇文章

and find the same article where you just replace the words "Second Life"

在里面找到“第二人生”替换为“网络”

with "Web," and "virtual reality" with "Internet."

找到“虚拟现实”并替换为“互联网”

You can find exactly the same articles

你会发现完全相同的文章

written about everything that people are observing.

在不同的时代被人们冠以不同的内容

To give you an idea of scale, Second Life is about 20,000 CPUs at this point.

我来给你一个规模的概念，“第二人生”目前由20000个CPU来运作

It's about 20,000 computers connected together

这相当于当前20000台电脑

in three facilities in the United States right now,

通过三个中心相互连接

that are simulating this virtual space. And the virtual space itself --

来模拟这个虚拟空间。并且在虚拟空间内部

there's about 250,000 people a day that are wandering around in there,

每天有25万个人在畅游其中

so the kind of, active population is something like a smallish city.

在线的人数相当于一座小城市的人口

The space itself is about 10 times the size of San Francisco,

虚拟空间本身大约是旧金山的10倍大小

and it's about as densely built out.

并且以同样的密度构造

So it gives you an idea of scale. Now, it's expanding very rapidly --

这是它的规模。现在,这个虚拟空间正在快速扩张

about five percent a month or so right now, in terms of new servers being added.

服务器的数量每个月增长5%左右

And so of course, radically unlike the real world,

当然，与真实世界迥然不同的是

and like the Internet, the whole thing is expanding

所有的一切都像互联网一样

very, very quickly, and historically exponentially.

扩张的非常快，呈几何级数的增长

So that sort of space exploration thing is matched up here

因此，这样的空间探索

by the amount of content that's in there,

与“第二人生”里面的内容相匹配

and I think that amount is critical.

并且我认为"内容"是关键

It was critical with the virtual world

对于虚拟世界来说最重要的是

that it be this space of truly infinite possibility.

去创造一个无限可能的空间

We're very sensitive to that as humans.

人类对此非常敏感

You know, you know when you see it. You know when you can do anything in a space

当你看到它时，你就会明白什么时候可以做什么事情

and you know when you can't.

你也知道什么时候又不可以

Second Life today is this 20,000 machines,

今天的“第二人生”是这样的20000台机器

and it's about 100 million or so user-created objects where, you know,

以及用户创造的1亿个物件所构成

an object would be something like this, possibly interactive.

一个物件就像是这样的东西，可能是互动性的

Tens of millions of them are thinking all the time;

上千万种物件总在运转

they have code attached to them.

它们内涵代码

So it's a really large world already, in terms of the amount of stuff that's there

从数量上来看它已经是一个非常庞大的世界了

and that's very important.

这个规模很重要

If anybody plays, like, World of Warcraft,

如果任何人在玩"魔兽世界"之类的游戏

World of Warcraft comes on, like, four DVDs.

魔兽世界的容量也就是4张DVD大小

Second Life, by comparison, has about 100 terabytes

相比较而言，“第二人生”拥有大约10万个G

of user-created data, making it about 25,000 times larger.

的用户数据，这让它会（比魔兽世界）大25000倍

So again, like the Internet compared to AOL,

如果拿互联网与美国在线相比

and the sort of chat rooms and content on AOL at the time,

那时AOL的聊天室及其内容

what's happening here is something very different,

与发生在这里的事情是非常不同的

because the sheer scale of what people can do

因为人们可以做的事情

when they're enabled to do anything they want is pretty amazing.

规模之庞大令人匪夷所思

The last big thought is that it is almost certainly true

最后一个主要的想法：几乎千真万确的

that whatever this is going to evolve into

无论这个东西向着什么方向发展

is going to be bigger in total usage than the Web itself.

虚拟世界的功能要比网络本身重要很多

And let me justify that with two statements.

下面我来做两个证明

Generically, what we use the Web for is to organize, exchange,

笼统的来讲，我们使用网络是为了组织、交换

create and consume information.

创造和使用信息

It's kind of like Irene talking about Google being data-driven.

就像Irene谈到Google是数据驱动的一样

I'd say I kind of think about the world as being information.

我认为世界是信息构成的

Everything that we interact with, all the experiences that we have,

和我们互动的一切，经历的所有东西

is kind of us flowing through a sea of information

就像航行在一片信息的海洋

and interacting with it in different ways.

只是以不同方式交流而已

The Web puts information in the form of text and images.

网络将信息以文本和图像的形式表现出来

The topology, the geography of the Web is text-to-text links for the most part.

网络的拓扑结构、地理构成大都是文本到文本的链接

That's one way of organizing information,

这是组织信息的一种方式

but there are two things about the way you access information in a virtual world

不过在虚拟世界中人们获取信息的方式

that I think are the important ways that they're very different

有非常重要的两种

and much better than what we've been able to do to date with the Web.

比我们在网络中的方式更好

The first is that, as I said, the --

第一点是

well, the first difference for virtual worlds is that

虚拟世界的第一点不同就是

information is presented to you in the virtual world

在虚拟世界中展现给你的信息

using the most powerful iconic symbols

运用了最强大的视觉符号

that you can possibly use with human beings.

这是人类世界最直观的东西

So for example, C-H-A-I-R is the English word for that,

下面举个例子，C-H-A-I-R是一个英文单词，

but a picture of this is a universal symbol.

但是一张椅子的图片是一个世界通用符号

Everybody knows what it means. There's no need to translate it.

所有人都知道它意味着什么。无需解释

It's also more memorable if I show you that picture,

如果给你这幅图片，和一张“C-H-A-I-R”的纸

and I show you C-H-A-I-R on a piece of paper.

图片的印象更加深刻

You can do tests that show that you'll remember

可以做一些测试

that I was talking about a chair a couple of days later a lot better.

几天之后谈论起“椅子”，你会记得更牢

So when you organize information using the symbols of our memory,

因此当使用记忆中的“符号”来组织信息时

using the most common symbols that we've been immersed in all our lives,

那些生活中最常见的符号

you maximally both excite, stimulate,

会让你最大限度的兴奋、激动

are able to remember, transfer and manipulate data.

并能够更好的回忆、传递和处理数据。

And so virtual worlds are the best way

所以虚拟世界是我们对信息进行基本的

for us to essentially organize and experience information.

组织和体验的最佳方式

And I think that's something that people have talked about for 20 years --

而且我认为有些事情人们已经讨论了20年

you know, that 3D, that lifelike environments

大家知道，3D，那些对我们来说

are really important in some magical way to us.

神奇而重要的仿真环境。

But the second thing -- and I think this one is less obvious --

那么第二个因素，我认为这点不那么显而易见

is that the experience of creating, consuming, exploring that information

就是在虚拟世界里创造、使用和探索信息的经历

is in the virtual world implicitly and inherently social.

本质上隐藏在社交活动中

You are always there with other people.

你总是与其他人在一起

And we as humans are social creatures and must, or are aided by,

作为人类，我们是社会性的动物，必须，或者得益于，

or enjoy more, the consumption of information in the presence of others.

享受着别人提供的信息

It's essential to us. You can't escape it.

对我们来说这是最基本的，没人可以例外

When you're on Amazon.com and you're looking for digital cameras or whatever,

当你在“亚马逊”上寻找数码相机或其他什么商品时，

you're on there right now, when you're on the site, with like 5,000 other people,

当你在网站上时，你与其他5000个人在一起

but you can't talk to them.

但是你不能跟他们交谈

You can't just turn to the people that are browsing digital cameras

你不能就这样冲着别人

on the same page as you, and ask them,

和你一起数码相机的人，问道

"Hey, have you seen one of these before? Because I'm thinking about buying it."

“喂，你看上哪款了？我想买一台。”

That experience of like, shopping together, just as a simple example,

这种经历就像是一起逛街，这是一个简单的例子，

is an example of how as social creatures

这就说明了作为社会性生物

we want to experience information in that way.

我们喜欢如何体验信息

So that second point, that we inherently experience information together

因此，第二个因素，即我们一同体验信息

or want to experience it together,

或希望一同体验信息

is critical to essentially, kind of,

对于我们将要在哪里运用技术手段

this trend of where we're going to use technology to connect us.

开展人际互联的基本趋势非常关键

And so I think, again, that it's likely that in the next decade or so

因此我再一次认为，也许在未来十年

these virtual worlds are going to be the most common way as human beings

就像人类使用互联网的电子设备一样，如果你愿意

that we kind of use the electronics of the Internet, if you will,

与他人一起使用信息，虚拟世界将成为

to be together, to consume information.

你最常用的方式

You know, mapping in India -- that's such a great example.

大家知道，制作印度的地图就是一个很好的例子

Maybe the solution there involves talking to other people in real time.

工作过程中需要实时跟其他人讨论

Asking for advice, rather than any possible way

寻求建议，而不是任何其他的方式

that you could just statically organize a map.

自己独立去画一张地图

So I think that's another big point.

因此我认为这就是另一个重要因素

I think that wherever this is all going,

我认为不管第二人生走到哪里

whether it's Second Life or its descendants, or something broader

不管它是“第二人生”或是以后出现的技术

that happens all around the world at a lot of different points --

在全世界很多地方出现的，更广义的东西

this is what we're going to see the Internet used for,

这是我们将看到互联网所能做的事情

and total traffic and total unique users is going to invert,

也是全部流量和所有用户将要寻找的未来

so that the Web and its bibliographic set of text and graphical information

这样互联网和它参考书目式的文本以及图形化的信息将变成一种工具

is going to become a tool or a part of that consumption pattern,

或信息使用模式的一部分

but the pattern itself is going to happen mostly in this type of an environment.

不过模式本身将很大程度上在这种环境（即“第二人生”）下运作

Big idea, but I think highly defensible.

很大胆的想法，不过我认为非常值得支持

So let me stop there and bring John back,

那么让我暂停一下并请约翰回来

and maybe we can just have a longer conversation.

可能我们会进行一次更长的对话

Thank you. John. That's great.

谢谢，约翰，非常精彩

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

John Hockenberry: Why is the creation, the impulse to create Second Life,

约翰：为什么创造出“第二人生”？你的动力是什么？

not a utopian impulse?

难道不是一个乌托邦式的冲动么？

Like for example, in the 19th century,

就像是19世纪

any number of works of literature that imagined alternative worlds

任何憧憬另一种世界的文艺作品

were explicitly utopian.

都很明显是在描绘乌托邦

Philip Rosedale: I think that's great. That's such a deep question. Yeah.

菲利普：我觉得很好，这是一个很深奥的问题，嗯。

Is a virtual world likely to be a utopia, would be one way I'd say it.

虚拟世界是否可能成为一个乌托邦，我想从一个角度说明

The answer is no, and I think the reason why is because

就是否定的，我认为原因是由于

the Web itself as a good example is profoundly bottoms-up.

作为一个很好的范例，网络本身是自下而上的构成的

That idea of infinite possibility, that magic of anything can happen,

无限可能性的想法，任何事情都可能发生的魅力

only happens in an environment

只会发生在一种环境里

where you really know that there's a fundamental freedom

那就是你确信在这种环境里存在一种最基本的

at the level of the individual actor, at the level of the Lego blocks,

在个人层面、由下而上的自由

if you will, that make up the virtual world.

只要你愿意，就能创建虚拟世界

You have to have that level of freedom, and so I'm often asked that,

你必须拥有那种程度的自由，因此我经常被问到，

you know, is there a, kind of, utopian or,

是否存在一种乌托邦

is there a utopian tendency to Second Life and things like it,

或者“第二人生”是否有乌托邦式或类似的倾向，

that you would create a world that has a grand scheme to it?

这样你就将创造一个具有宏伟的乌托邦计划的世界？

Those top-down schemes are alienating to just about everybody,

那些自上而下的计划将疏远每个人

even if you mean well when you build them.

即使在你创建它们的时候你的初衷是很好的

And what's more, human society, when it's controlled,

另外，人类社会在被控制的时候

when you set out a grand scheme of rules,

在你设置了一系列宏伟的规则和计划的时候

a new way of people interacting, or a new way of laying out a city, or whatever,

这种人类交互，或城市布局的新方式，或不管什么东西

that stuff historically has never scaled much beyond,

绝对不会在历史上有深远的影响

you know -- I always laughingly say -- the Mall of America, you know,

我常常嘲笑——美国购物中心

which is like, the largest piece of centrally designed architecture

那就像一块最大的中央式设计

that, you know, has been built.

建筑物

JH: The Kremlin was pretty big.

约翰：克里姆林宫就是相当巨大的

PR: The Kremlin, yeah. That's true. The whole complex.

菲利普：是的，克里姆林宫。非常正确，那很复杂

JH: Give me a story of a tool you created at the beginning

约翰：给我讲一个关于你最初在

in Second Life that you were pretty sure people would want to use

“第二人生”中创造的一件工具吧，你确信人们会使用它

in the creation of their avatars or in communicating

创造“阿凡达”（在线角色）的工具

that people actually in practice said, no, I'm not interested in that at all,

或人们实际上会说，不，我对这个工具一点都不感兴趣

and name something that you didn't come up with

然后再告诉我一个开始时并不存在

that almost immediately people began to demand.

但是人们突然开始需要的东西

PR: I'm sure I can think of multiple examples of both of those.

菲利普：我相信这两个问题我可以想到很多例子

One of my favorites. I had this feature that I built into Second Life --

讲一个我最中意的工具。我把它嵌入了“第二人生”

I was really passionate about it.

我真的对它充满了热情

It was an ability to kind of walk up close to somebody

这是一种走近某人并且跟他进行

and have a more private conversation,

更为私人的谈话的功能

but it wasn't instant messaging because you had to sort of befriend somebody.

但是这并不是即时通讯，因为你必须要跟别人先交朋友

It was just this idea that you could kind of have a private chat.

就是这样一个想法，你能进行一次小小的私人谈话

I just remember it was one of those examples of data-driven design.

这是一个由数据驱动的设计的例子

I thought it was such a good idea from my perspective,

我觉得从我的角度看来，这是个很好的想法

and it was just absolutely never used, and we ultimately --

但是它完全没有人用，我们最终

I think we've now turned it off, if I remember.

我们现在把这项功能关掉了，如果我没记错的话

We finally gave up, took it out of the code.

我们最后放弃了，把这段代码剔除掉了。

But more generally, you know, one other example I think about this,

但是我想到了另外一个更普遍的例证

which is great relative to the utopian idea.

它跟乌托邦的想法非常相关

Second Life originally had 16 simulators. It now has 20,000.

“第二人生”最初有16个模拟器。现在有20000个

So when it only had 16,

当只有16个模拟器的时候

it was only about as big as this college campus.

它仅仅有这个校园那么大

And we had -- we zoned it, you know: we put a nightclub,

然后我们把它分区：我们设了一个夜总会

we put a disco where you could dance,

设了一个用来跳舞的迪斯科舞池

and then we had a place where you could fight with guns if you wanted to,

然后我们设了一个区域，如果你愿意，就可以在这里进行枪战

and we had another place that was like a boardwalk, kind of a Coney Island.

还有另外一个像木板路一样的区域，有点类似康尼岛

And we laid out the zoning, but of course,

我们制定了分区

people could build all around it however they wanted to.

人们可以在“第二人生”里四处建设

And what was so amazing right from the start was that the idea

从一开始最让人激动的就是

that we had put out in the zoning concept, basically,

我们引入的这种最基本的分区的概念

was instantly and thoroughly ignored,

立刻被彻底的忽视了

and like, two months into the whole thing,

整个事情发生的两个月里

-- which is really a small amount of time, even in Second Life time --

即使是“第二人生”时间，这也确实是很短的一段日子

I remember the users, the people who were then using Second Life,

我还记得那些使用“第二人生”的用户们

the residents came to me and said, we want to buy the disco --

那些“居民们”找到我说，“我们想买下迪斯科舞厅

because I had built it -- we want to buy that land and raze it

我们想买下这个岛屿，把它夷平

and put houses on it. And I sold it to them --

然后在上面盖房子。于是我就卖给了他们

I mean, we transferred ownership and they had a big party

这意味着，我们交换了所有权，他们有一大帮人

and blew up the entire building.

并且拆掉了整个建筑

And I remember that that was just so telling, you know,

我记得这是个很生动的事实，很能说明问题

that you didn't know exactly what was going to happen.

你不确定未来会发生什么

When you think about stuff that people have built that's popular --

当你想到人们建造的那些流行事物

JH: CBGB's has to close eventually, you know. That's the rule.

约翰：CBGBs（一个音乐俱乐部）不得不被永久的关闭。这是规律

PR: Exactly. And it -- but it closed on day one, basically, in Internet time.

菲利普：确实是这样。但是它基本上是在互联网时间的第一天关闭的。

You know, an example of something -- pregnancy.

大家知道，举个例子，怀孕

You can have a baby in Second Life.

在“第二人生”里，你可以抚养孩子

This is done entirely using, kind of, the tools that are built into Second Life,

它完全是运用“第二人生”里内嵌的一些工具来完成的

so the innate concept of becoming pregnant and having a baby, of course --

因此原来固有的怀孕和抚养孩子的概念

Second Life is, at the platform level, at the level of the company -- at Linden Lab --

“第二人生”，处于一个平台层面和一个公司层面——即“林登实验室”

Second Life has no game properties to it whatsoever.

它无论如何都没有游戏的属性

There is no attempt to structure the experience,

没有任何去创造经历的企图

to make it utopian in that sense that we put into it.

去让它变得更乌托邦一些

So of course, we never would have put a mechanism for having babies or, you know,

那么当然，我们从来不会加入抚养孩子或让两个“阿凡达”

taking two avatars and merging them, or something.

结合的机制，或类似的任何东西

But people built the ability to have babies and care for babies

但是作为一种在“第二人生”中可以交易的经历

as a purchasable experience that you can have in Second Life and so --

人们可以去购买“生孩子和抚养孩子的能力”

I mean, that's a pretty fascinating example of, you know,

我的意思是，这是一个在整体经济活动中发生的

what goes on in the overall economy.

非常引人入胜的例子

And of course, the existence of an economy is another idea.

当然， 这个经济体的存在性是另外一个话题

I didn't talk about it, but it's a critical feature.

我没有谈论过这个话题，不过它非常关键

When people are given the opportunity to create in the world,

当人们在一个世界里拥有了创造的机会

there's really two things they want.

那他们就真正想去做两件事

One is fair ownership of the things they create.

一件就是获得他们所创造的物品的公平所有权

And then the second one is -- if they feel like it,

第二件是——如果他们喜欢

and they're not going to do it in every case, but in many they are --

虽不一定在任何情况下都这样做，人们大都会

they want to actually be able to sell that creation

希望卖掉他们创造的东西

as a way of providing for their own livelihood.

来获得利益

True on the Web -- also true in Second Life.

这在网络上是真理——在“第二人生”中也是

And so the existence of an economy is critical.

因此“经济”的存在性是很关键的

JH: Questions for Philip Rosedale? Right here.

约翰：有提问的么？就是你了

(Audience: Well, first an observation, which is that you look like a character.)

（听众：嗯，首先我的意见是，你看起来像个游戏角色）

JH: The observation is, Philip has been accused of looking like a character,

约翰：据观察，有人指责菲利普看起来像一个游戏角色

an avatar, in Second Life.

一个“第二人生”中的“阿凡达”

Respond, and then we'll get the rest of your question.

回应这个质疑，然后我们再听听剩下的问题

PR: But I don't look like my avatar.

菲利普：但我看起来不像我的“阿凡达”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

How many people here know what my avatar looks like?

多少人知道我的“阿凡达”长什么样？

That's probably not very many.

可能并没有多少人知道

JH: Are you ripping off somebody else's avatar with that, sort of --

约翰：你在用其他人“阿凡达”形象吗？

PR: No, no. I didn't. One of the other guys at work had a fantastic avatar --

菲利普：不，不，没有。我一个同事有一个非常棒的“阿凡达”

a female avatar -- that I used to be once in a while.

一个女性“阿凡达”替身——我以前曾在一段时间里使用过

But my avatar is a guy wearing chaps.

不过我的“阿凡达”替身是一个穿着皮裤的家伙

Spiky hair -- spikier than this. Kind of orange hair.

尖尖的头发——比这个还尖，稍微有点桔黄色。

Handlebar mustache. Kind of a Village People sort of a character.

八字胡须，稍微有点像乡下人的角色

So, very cool.

所以，很酷

JH: And your question?

约翰：那么你的问题是？

(Audience: [Unclear].)

（听众：[不清楚]。）

JH: The question is, there appears to be a lack of cultural fine-tuning in Second Life.

约翰：他的问题是，在“第二人生”中出现一种文化微调的缺失

It doesn't seem to have its own culture,

看起来它没有自身的文化背景

and the sort of differences that exist in the real world

而在真实世界中文化间的差异

aren't translated into the Second Life map.

并没有反映在“第二人生”里面

PR: Well, first of all, we're very early,

菲利普：嗯，首先，我们这个东西还很幼稚

so this has only been going on for a few years.

所以它只持续运行了几年而已

And so part of what we see is the same evolution of human behavior

所以我们看到的和人类社会进化是一样的

that you see in emerging societies.

那些慢慢出现的社会现象

So a fair criticism -- is what it is -- of Second Life today is that

因此现在有一种对于“第二人生”公正的意见，即

it's more like the Wild West than it is like Rome, from a cultural standpoint.

从文明的立场来看，它更像是西部故事，而不是罗马

That said, the evolution of, and the nuanced interaction that creates culture,

也就是说，这种创造文明的微妙互动行为的进化

is happening at 10 times the speed of the real world,

以现实世界10倍的速度发生着

and in an environment where, if you walk into a bar in Second Life,

如果你走进“第二人生”的一个酒吧，在这样的环境下

65 percent of the people there are not in the United States,

65%的人并不在美国

and in fact are speaking their, you know, various and different languages.

他们实际上都说着多种多样，不同的语言

In fact, one of the ways to make money in Second Life

实际上，一种在“第二人生”中赚钱方式

is to make really cool translators that you drag onto your body

就是做那种非常酷的翻译器，你只要把它们拖拽的你的身上

and they basically, kind of, pop up on your screen

就能跳到你的屏幕上

and allow you to use Google or Babel Fish

让你使用Google或Babelfish

or one of the other online text translators to on-the-fly

或者任何一种在线文本翻译器来进行实时对话翻译

translate spoken -- I'm sorry -- typed text between individuals.

抱歉——我的意思是翻译人们打出来的文字

And so, the multicultural nature and the sort of cultural melting pot

因此，发生于“第二人生”里的多元文化和

that's happening inside Second Life is quite --

文化熔炉性是非常

I think, quite remarkable relative to what in real human terms

了不起的。它比真实的人类社会

in the real world we've ever been able to achieve.

更容易实现文化的交融

So, I think that culture will fine-tune, it will emerge,

所以，我觉得文化自身会微调，它会慢慢涌现

but we still have some years to wait while that happens,

不过我们仍然需要几年来等待它的发生

as you would naturally expect.

就像你会自然而然的期望它发生一样

JH: Other questions? Right here.

约翰：有其他问题么？就是你。

(Audience: What's your demographic?)

（听众：“第二人生”的人口统计数据是什么样的？）

JH: What's your demographic?

约翰：人口统计数据是什么样的？

PR: So, the question is, what's the demographic.

菲利普：嗯，问题是，“第二人生”的人口统计数据

So, the average age of a person in Second Life is 32,

那么，“第二人生”居民的平均年龄是32岁

however, the use of Second Life increases dramatically

然而，对“第二人生”的使用急剧增长

as your physical age increases. So as you go from age 30 to age 60 --

就像你的实际年龄的增长一样。所以，如同你从30岁长到60岁

and there are many people in their sixties using Second Life --

有很多人60岁时在使用“第二人生”

this is also not a sharp curve -- it's very, very distributed --

这不是一个陡峭的曲线——它非常非常分散

usage goes up in terms of, like, hours per week by 40 percent

一个从30岁长到60岁的人，从每周在线时间

as you go from age 30 to age 60 in real life, so there's not --

增长率为40%，所以——

many people make the mistake of believing that Second Life

很多人错误地认为“第二人生”

is some kind of an online game. Actually it's generally unappealing --

是某种在线游戏。作为游戏，它没有吸引力——

I'm just speaking broadly and critically --

我只是从广义和批判的角度来讲——

it's not very appealing to people that play online video games,

对人们来说，它不如玩在线视频游戏更有吸引力，

because the graphics are not yet equivalent to --

因为其图像并不能与游戏相比

I mean, these are very nice pictures,

我的意思是，那里是有很漂亮的图片

but in general the graphics are not quite equivalent

但总体来讲，这些图像与那些你在《侠盗猎车手4》中看到的

to the fine-tuned graphics that you see in a Grand Theft Auto 4.

经过修饰的图像并不能够相比

So average age: 32. I mentioned

所以平均年龄：32。

65 percent of the users are not in the United States.

65%的用户并不是美国人

The distribution amongst countries is extremely broad.

用户的国家分布极度广泛

There's users from, you know, virtually every country in the world now in Second Life.

世界上任何一个国家都有“第二人生”的用户

The dominant ones are -- if you take the UK and Europe,

其中的优势群体——如果把英国和欧洲算在一起

together they make up about 55 percent of the usage base in Second Life.

他们占了“第二人生”55%的用户基础

In terms of psychographic --

从消费心态的角度看

oh, men and women: men and women are almost equally matched in Second Life,

哦，还有男女比例：“第二人生”里男女比例基本相当

so about 45 percent of the people online right now on Second Life are women.

所以大概现在在线的45%的用户是女性

Women use Second Life, though,

基于使用时间来看，女性对“第二人生”的使用

about 30 to 40 percent more, on an hours basis, than men do,

大约比男性要多30%-40%

meaning that more men sign up than women,

这意味着更多的男性注册了账号

and more women stay and use it than men.

但更多女性登录并使用“第二人生”

So that's another demographic fact.

所以，出现了另一个人口统计事实

In terms of psychographic, you know, the people in Second Life

从消费心态角度看，“第二人生”里的人

are remarkably dissimilar relative to what you might think,

与你想象中的可能有显著的不同

when you go in and talk to them and meet them, and I would, you know,

当你进入“第二人生”与里面的人谈话、会面，那么我会

challenge you to just do this and find out.

鼓励你去发现这一点

But it's not a bunch of programmers.

这里并不是一堆程序员

It's not easy to describe as a demographic.

这并不容易以人口统计的角度来描述

If I had to just sort of paint a broad picture, I'd say, remember the people

如果我必须勾画出一个整体画卷，我会说，请想想

who were really getting into eBay in the first few years of eBay?

在eBay出现的最初几年里，谁是真正去逛eBay的人？

Maybe a little bit like that: in other words, people who are early adopters.

可能有一点点像这个：换句话说，那些早期应用者

They tend to be creative. They tend to be entrepreneurial.

他们是富有创造力的。他们是具有企业家式的开拓精神的

A lot of them -- about 55,000 people so far -- are cash-flow positive:

许多人——迄今为止大概55000人——是赚钱的

they're making money from what -- I mean, real-world money --

他们正在赚钱——我的意思是，真金白银

from what they're doing in Second Life, so it's a very build --

从他们在“第二人生”里所做的事情中赚钱，所以这是非常有建设性

still a creative, building things, build-your-own-business

非常有创造性、建设性的事情，创建你自己的事业

type of an orientation. So, that's it.

的方向。这就是“第二人生”

JH: You describe yourself, Philip, as someone who was really creative

约翰：菲利普，你将自己描述成为从小就

when you were young and, you know, liked to make things.

喜欢去创造一些事物的真正具有创造力的人

I mean, it's not often that you hear somebody

我的意思是，你很少听到人们把自己

describe themselves as really creative.

说成是真正具有创造力的

I suspect that's possibly a euphemism for C student

我怀疑这只是一个在自己房间花费了很多时间的

who spent a lot of time in his room? Is it possible?

成绩为C的学生的一种委婉的说辞，有这种可能么？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

PR: I was a -- there were times I was a C student. You know, it's funny.

菲利普：我是——我有时成绩是C。你知道，这很有趣

When I got to college -- I studied physics in college --

当我读大学时——我学习的是物理学

and I got really -- it was funny,

我真的——这很有趣，

because I was definitely a more antisocial kid. I read all the time.

因为确切的来讲我是个不善交际的孩子，我总是在读书

I was shy. I don't seem like it now, but I was very shy.

我很害羞，我看起来不像现在这样，我很腼腆

Moved around a bunch -- had that experience too.

到过很多个城市——也有这种经历

So I did, kind of, I think, live in my own world,

所以我觉得我是生活在我自己的世界里

and obviously that helps, you know, engage your real interest in something.

而且很明显，这有助于你专注于你真正的兴趣

JH: So you're on your fifth life at this point?

约翰：所以在这点上，你处于你的第五次人生中么？

PR: If you count, yeah, cities. So -- but I did --

菲利普：如果你数过，是的，5个城市。所以

and I didn't do -- I think I didn't do as well in school as I could have. I think you're right.

我并没有——我觉得我在学校并没有做出应得的成绩。你是对的

I wasn't, like, an obsessed -- you know, get A's kind of guy.

我不是一个那种痴迷于得A的孩子

I was going to say, I had a great social experience

我想说，当我读大学时，我获得了

when I went to college that I hadn't had before,

以前从未获得的社交经验

a more fraternal experience, where I met six or seven other guys

还有更多的兄弟般的情谊。在那里我遇到了同样学习物理学的6、7个人，

who I studied physics with, and I was very competitive with them,

跟他们在一起我非常具有竞争性

so then I started to get A's. But you're right: I wasn't an A student.

那时我开始得A。不过你是对的：我不是一个A等生

JH: Last question. Right here.

约翰：最后一个问题。就是你

(Audience: In the pamphlet, there's a statement -- )

（听众：在小册子里，有一个声明——）

JH: You want to paraphrase that?

约翰：你先给大家重复一下问题好吗？

PR: Yeah, so let me restate that.

菲利普：好的，那么我来重复一下

So, you're saying that in the pamphlet there's a statement

你说在小册子里有个声明

that we may come to prefer our digital selves to our real ones --

就是相对于真实的自我，我们会更喜欢电脑中的自我

our more malleable or manageable digital identities to our real identities --

电脑中的自我可塑性更强、操控性更好

and that in fact, much of human life and human experience

实际上，人类生活和经历的许多部分

may move into the digital realm.

会进入数字领域

And then that's kind of a horrifying thought, of course.

那么当然，这是种很恐怖的想法

That's a frightening change, frightening disruption.

这是令人忧虑的变化和可怕的破坏

I guess, and you're asking, what do I think about that? How do I --

我想，你所询问的是，我对此怎么看？我怎样——

JH: What's your response to the people who would say, that's horrifying?

约翰：那么你对这种恐怖的事情有何看法？

(Audience: If someone would say to you, I find that disturbing,

（听众：如果某些人对你说，我发现这令我很困扰，

what would be your response?)

你的回答会是什么？）

PR: Well, I'd say a couple of things.

菲利普：嗯，我会告诉他一系列事实。

One is, it's disturbing like the Internet or electricity was.

一、这就像是互联网和电的出现一样令人困扰

That is to say, it's a big change, but it isn't avoidable.

就是说，这是一个大的变革，不可避免

So, no amount of backpedaling or intentional behavior

所以，任何倒退、故意的行为

or political behavior is going to keep these technology changes

或政治行为都不能阻止技术变革

from connecting us together,

将人们连接在一起

because the basic motive that people have --

因为人们最基本的动力——

to be creative and entrepreneurial -- is going to drive energy

创造性和开拓精神——将以对网络同样的方式

into these virtual worlds in the same way that it has with the Web.

将能量投入到这些虚拟世界中。

So this change, I believe, is a huge disruptive change.

所以我相信，这个变革是一种具有巨大破坏力的变革。

Obviously, I'm the optimist and a big believer in what's going on here,

很明显，我是个乐观主义者，我有坚定的信仰

but I think that as -- even a sober, you know, the most sober,

不过我想——甚至是一个冷静的，最冷静的

disconnected thinker about this, looking at it from the side,

独立思考的人，从这些角度来观察这个变化

has to conclude, based on the data,

看到这些数据能得出的结论

that with those kinds of economic forces at play,

也必定是一样的

there is definitely going to be a sea change,

翻天覆地的变化必将出现

and that change is going to be intensely disruptive

这个变化是颠覆性的

relative to our concept of our very lives and being,

对于人类现在的生存状态来说

and our identities, as well.

相对于我们的身份也是一样

I don't think we can get away from those changes.

我们逃离不了这些变化

I think generally, we were talking about this --

一般来说，我们在讨论这些——

I think that generally being present in a virtual world and being challenged by it,

在现在的虚拟世界里，面临新的问题，

being -- surviving there, having a good life there, so to speak,

在其中生存，甚至过上一个好的生活，可以这么说，

is a challenge because of the multiculturality of it,

这是一个挑战。因为它的文化多样性，

because of the languages, because of the entrepreneurial richness of it,

因为那些语言，

the sort of flea market nature, if you will, of the virtual world today.

和那些跳蚤市场的本性，如果你愿意（这么称呼的话）。

It puts challenges on us to rise to. We must be better than ourselves, in many ways.

它给我们带来了挑战。我们必须在很多方面比现在的自己做的更好

We must learn things and, you know, be more tolerant,

我们必须学习新东西，更加包容

and be smarter and learn faster and be more creative, perhaps,

更聪明、更有效率和创造力

than we are typically in our real lives.

相比从前的自己

And I think that if that is true of virtual worlds,

我相信如果在虚拟世界里是这样

then these changes, though scary -- and, I say, inevitable --

那些变革，即使令人生畏——不可避免

are ultimately for the better,

最终我们也会

and therefore something that we should ride out.

更好的安全驾驭我们的生活

But I would say that -- and many other authors and speakers about this,

不过我想说——不仅仅是我，很多其他作家和演说家

other than me, have said, you know, fasten your seat belts

都曾说过，系好你的安全带

because the change is coming. There are going to be big changes.

因为变革就要来临，请做好准备！

JH: Philip Rosedale, thank you very much.

约翰：菲利普·罗斯德勒，非常感谢！

(Applause)

（鼓掌）