Philip Rosedale: Second Life, where anything is possible

譯者: Sean Chuang 審譯者: Nova Upinel Altesse

You know, we're going to do things a little differently.

我想，今天和往常來點不一樣的

I'm not going to show you a presentation. I'm going to talk to you.

我不打算做個很正式的簡報,而是透過聊天的方式.....

And at the same time, we're going to look at just images

同時我們會單純地看到很多圖片

from a photo stream that is pretty close to live of things that --

這些圖片都是「第二人生(Second Life)」的真實場景

snapshots from Second Life. So hopefully this will be fascinating.

希望你們會喜歡

You can -- I can compete for your attention with the strange pictures

我會持續用這些顯示在那邊螢幕上其怪的圖片來

that you see on screen that come from there.

吸引你們的注意力

I thought I'd talk a little bit about some just big ideas about this,

我想，就先從大架構開始談起

and then get John back out here so we can talk interactively

然後請John 回到台上，這樣我們可以較為互動的方式討論

a little bit more and think and ask questions.

多一點的思考及發問

You know, I guess the first question is,

首先,第一個問題是

why build a virtual world at all?

為什麼要創造一個虛擬的世界?

And I think the answer to that is always going to be

這問題的答案....你可以說是

at least driven to a certain extent by the people

我應該是瘋了吧

initially crazy enough to start the project, you know.

才會有這個異想天開的構想

So I can give you a little bit of first background just on me

這得回溯到我的成長背景

and what moved me as a -- really going back as far as a teenager

及驅使我的動力。這一切得從我青少年時代說起

and then an adult, to actually try and build this kind of thing.

然後到我成年的時候，才去真正的建構這些東西

I was a very creative kid who read a lot, and got into electronics first,

我小時候相當富有創意，也讀很多書。從電子產品開始切入

and then later, programming computers, when I was really young.

當我很年輕的時候，接著踏入電腦程式設計

I was just always trying to make things.

從很小時，我就愛嘗試自己動手做東西

I was just obsessed with taking things apart and building things,

尤其沉迷在把東西開解後再進行組裝

and just anything I could do with my hands or with wood

只要任何手工或可以完成的

or electronics or metal or anything else.

不管是木工，電子或金屬類的東西，我都愛

And so, for example -- and it's a great Second Life thing -- I had a bedroom.

舉例來說，我的臥室，像是第二人生一樣

And every kid, you know, as a teenager, has got his bedroom he retreats to --

所有小孩在青少年時代都有自己的房間，一個可以避難的地方

but I wanted my door, I thought it would be cool if my door went up

但我想要一個可以往上開啟而不是單純旋轉開啟的門

rather than opened, like on Star Trek.

像"星際爭霸戰"一樣,那有多酷!

I thought it would be neat to do that. And so I got up in the ceiling

我覺得這點子太棒了,所以我爬到天花板

and I cut through the ceiling joists, much to my parents' delight,

鑿開支撐用的托梁(我爸媽應該快瘋了吧!)

and put the door, you know, being pulled up through the ceiling.

把門從天花板往上拉

I built -- I put a garage-door opener up in the attic

我也改了車庫的門

that would pull this door up.

它可以穿過閣樓向上開啟

You can imagine the amount of time that it took me to do this to the house

不難想像我花了多少時間做這些改造

and the displeasure of my parents.

和使我父母不高興

The thing that was always striking to me was that we as people

最令我不解的是,身為一個人

could have so many really amazing ideas about things we'd like to do,

明明有很多我們喜歡做的事的點子

but are so often unable, in the real world, to actually do those things --

然而在現實生活中,實際能做到事卻少又少

to actually cobble together the materials

既不能湊齊所需材料

and go through the actual execution phase of building something

更遑論將腦海中的設計藍圖

that you imagine from a design perspective.

變成具體執行的步驟

And so for me, I know that when the Internet came around

至於我,隨著網路逐漸普及

and I was doing computer programming and just, you know,

除了從事電腦程式設計的工作外

just generally trying to run my own little company

也想著如何利用網路及電腦

and figure out what to do with the Internet and with computers,

著手自行創業

I was just immediately struck by how the ultimate thing

突然有天靈光一閃

that you would really want to do with the Internet and with computers

我最想在網路及電腦上做的事情

would be to use the Internet and connected computers

就是透過網路及電腦

to simulate a world to sort of recreate the laws of physics

去模擬創造一個虛擬世界, 這個世界不但有新的物理法則

and the rules of how things went together --

也改變了萬事萬物的定律

the sort of -- the idea of atoms and how to make things,

就像是原子可以重組成新分子的概念

and do that inside a computer so that we could all get in there and make stuff.

利用電腦建構這樣一個虛擬世界的想法

And so for me that was the thing that was so enticing.

對我來說實在太誘人了

I just wanted this place where you could build things.

我只是想要一個地方能讓我自由創造

And so I think you see that in the genesis

我相信現在你們了解了

of what has happened with Second Life, and I think it's important.

"第二人生"的源起,這非常重要

I also think that more generally, the use of the Internet and technology

普遍來說,網路科技的應用已提供一個

as a kind of a space between us for creativity and design is a general trend.

嶄新的創造及設計發展的平台

It is a -- sort of a great human progress.

這是人類發展的一大突破

Technology is just generally being used to allow us to create

科技的應用使我們能夠建立

in as shared and social a way as possible.

一個交流分享和社交的方式

And I think that Second Life and virtual worlds more generally

而我相信,"第二人生"或其他虛擬世界

represent the best we can do to achieve that right now.

可說是目前網路科技應用的極致

You know, another way to look at that,

換個角度來看

and related to the content and, you know, thinking about space,

好比外太空

is to connect sort of virtual worlds to space.

如果將虛擬的世界和宇宙空間結合

I thought that might be a fun thing to talk about for a second.

這很有趣,我想多談一些

If you think about going into space, it's a fascinating thing.

試想如果你能進入外太空,那有多酷!

So many movies, so many kids, we all sort of

很多電影情節,很多小孩

dream about exploring space. Now, why is that?

多多少少都夢想過,這是為什麼呢?

Stop for a moment and ask, why that conceit?

停下來想想看, 為什麼人這麼想呢?

Why do we as people want to do that?

為什麼人類會想進入外太空呢?

I think there's a couple of things. It's what we see in the movies --

原因很多, 正如我們在電影中看到的

you know, it's this dream that we all share.

進入外太空幾乎是人類共同的夢想

One is that if you went into space you'd be able to begin again.

原因之一是當你進到太空中人生有了重新開始的機會

In some sense, you would become someone else in that journey,

在某些面向來看，你在那個旅途中變成另外一個人

because there wouldn't be -- you'd leave society and life as you know it, behind.

離開你所熟悉的環境

And so inevitably, you would transform yourself --

你的一切無可避免地都將改變

irreversibly, in all likelihood -- as you began this exploration.

當你進入這個探索後你將無可避免的，無可復原的徹底改變

And then the second thing is that there's this tangible sense

第二個原因是那種身歷其境的感覺

that if you travel far enough, you can find out there --

如果你走得夠遠,你會發現

oh, yeah -- you have no idea what you're going to find

你不知道你下一步會遇到什麼

once you get there, into space.

一旦進入外太空

It's going to be different than here.

所有事情和這裡都不一樣

And in fact, it's going to be so different than what we see here on earth

和我們所熟悉的地球完全不同

that anything is going to be possible.

在這裡凡事都有可能

So that's kind of the idea -- we as humans crave the idea of

就是這種感覺，人們發展這一個概念

creating a new identity and going into a place where anything is possible.

擁有有新的身份,進入新的地方,創造新的可能

And I think that if you really sit and think about it,

我相信如果你真的坐下來認真思考

virtual worlds, and where we're going

這虛擬世界

with more and more computing technology,

有著更多的電腦科技

represent essentially the likely, really tactically possible

實際上就像是

version of space exploration.

更真實的太空歷險

We are moved by the idea of virtual worlds because, like space,

虛擬世界就像外太空一樣

they allow us to reinvent ourselves and they contain anything

可以重新改變自己

and everything, and probably anything could happen there.

讓任何事都變得可能

You know, to give you a size idea about scale, you know,

說到規模

comparing space to Second Life, most people don't realize, kind of --

若拿外太空和第二人生相比,很多人不了解

and then this is just like the Internet in the early '90s.

這就好比90年代初期的網路

In fact, Second Life virtual worlds are a lot like the Internet in the early '90s today:

事實上,第二人生就像當時的網路一樣

everybody's very excited,

讓人興奮不已

there's a lot of hype and excitement about one idea or the next

任何新的概念都容易引起話題

from moment to moment, and then there's despair

但一段時間過後,失望感油然而生

and everybody thinks the whole thing's not going to work.

並且大家會認為所有的事情都不可行

Everything that's happening with Second Life

第二人生經歷過的所有事情

and more broadly with virtual worlds, all happened in the early '90s.

其他虛擬世界經歷過的,都和90年代網路萌芽時一樣

We always play a game at the office where you can take any article

我們都玩過一種遊戲,隨便找一篇文章

and find the same article where you just replace the words "Second Life"

把裡頭"網站"替換成"第二人生"

with "Web," and "virtual reality" with "Internet."

把"網路"替換成"虛擬實境"

You can find exactly the same articles

結果發現

written about everything that people are observing.

原先文章想表達的內容並不因此有所改變

To give you an idea of scale, Second Life is about 20,000 CPUs at this point.

再談到規模,"第二人生"目前由2萬個CPU來運作

It's about 20,000 computers connected together

意思是由2萬台電腦

in three facilities in the United States right now,

透過三個中心相互連接

that are simulating this virtual space. And the virtual space itself --

來模擬這個虛擬世界和自己的虛擬空間

there's about 250,000 people a day that are wandering around in there,

在這裡每天平圴有25萬人駐足

so the kind of, active population is something like a smallish city.

上線人數相當於一個小型城市的人口規模

The space itself is about 10 times the size of San Francisco,

而這虛擬空間大約是舊金山的10倍大

and it's about as densely built out.

而且用同樣的密度建造的

So it gives you an idea of scale. Now, it's expanding very rapidly --

現在你可以想像它的規模,但同時它拓展的速度也很快

about five percent a month or so right now, in terms of new servers being added.

伺服器大約以每個月5%的速率持續擴充

And so of course, radically unlike the real world,

當然, 這在實體世界無法想像

and like the Internet, the whole thing is expanding

網路正以迅雷不及掩耳

very, very quickly, and historically exponentially.

一日千里的速度飛快成長

So that sort of space exploration thing is matched up here

但要維持爆炸性成長的動能

by the amount of content that's in there,

取決於包羅萬象,多采多姿的內容

and I think that amount is critical.

我覺得內容是關鍵

It was critical with the virtual world

它是創造無限可能的關鍵

that it be this space of truly infinite possibility.

這在虛擬世界尤其如此

We're very sensitive to that as humans.

人其實很敏感的

You know, you know when you see it. You know when you can do anything in a space

初次接觸的剎那

and you know when you can't.

就知道結果了

Second Life today is this 20,000 machines,

今天的第二人生雖然僅是這2萬台機器

and it's about 100 million or so user-created objects where, you know,

它卻包含了1億個,由使用者開發出來的創意

an object would be something like this, possibly interactive.

這些創意可能像是這樣

Tens of millions of them are thinking all the time;

同時可能有數仟萬人在想同樣的事

they have code attached to them.

而僅僅以簡單的帳號及密碼,就能連結所有的人

So it's a really large world already, in terms of the amount of stuff that's there

虛擬世界的規模之大超乎你的想像

and that's very important.

帶來的影響絕不可小覷

If anybody plays, like, World of Warcraft,

拿"魔獸世界"來說

World of Warcraft comes on, like, four DVDs.

約4片DVD的大小

Second Life, by comparison, has about 100 terabytes

而第二人生,則約有100TB由使用者建立資料的容量

of user-created data, making it about 25,000 times larger.

整整比魔獸世界大了25,000倍

So again, like the Internet compared to AOL,

同樣地,拿網路和"美國線上"來說

and the sort of chat rooms and content on AOL at the time,

在當時"美國線上"的聊天室或其他內容

what's happening here is something very different,

和第二人生是很不一樣的

because the sheer scale of what people can do

因為現在人們可以做的事情

when they're enabled to do anything they want is pretty amazing.

種類之繁多令人眼花撩亂

The last big thought is that it is almost certainly true

最後一個想法,也可以說是事實

that whatever this is going to evolve into

無論第二人生未來走向為何

is going to be bigger in total usage than the Web itself.

虛擬世界的功能要比網路本身重要得多

And let me justify that with two statements.

我可以證明這兩個論點

Generically, what we use the Web for is to organize, exchange,

一般而言,我們使用網路是為了組織,交換

create and consume information.

創造及消化各類資訊

It's kind of like Irene talking about Google being data-driven.

這好比Irene剛談到的,我們使用Google 來搜尋資訊

I'd say I kind of think about the world as being information.

試著想像這世界係由訊息組成

Everything that we interact with, all the experiences that we have,

我們所交流, 所經歷的每件事

is kind of us flowing through a sea of information

就像是遊蕩在資訊大海中

and interacting with it in different ways.

只是用不同的方式進行互動

The Web puts information in the form of text and images.

網路用內容和影像呈現它要表達的訊息

The topology, the geography of the Web is text-to-text links for the most part.

網路的拓樸結構,地理結構是構成文對文連接最重要的部份

That's one way of organizing information,

這也是組織資訊的一種方式

but there are two things about the way you access information in a virtual world

但在虛擬世界裡有另外二種方式

that I think are the important ways that they're very different

這也顯示為何虛擬世界是如此不同

and much better than what we've been able to do to date with the Web.

且遠比和網路互動來得重要的原因

The first is that, as I said, the --

第一個原因,如我之前提過的

well, the first difference for virtual worlds is that

虛擬世界的第一個不同

information is presented to you in the virtual world

是它利用具強烈代表性的符號

using the most powerful iconic symbols

具體呈現要表達的訊息

that you can possibly use with human beings.

這在實體世界很難做到

So for example, C-H-A-I-R is the English word for that,

比方說,椅子的英文拼音是CHAIR

but a picture of this is a universal symbol.

而這圖案是全球通用的符號

Everybody knows what it means. There's no need to translate it.

所有人一看就知道,不需要任何的解釋

It's also more memorable if I show you that picture,

我先給你看圖案

and I show you C-H-A-I-R on a piece of paper.

和一張寫上"椅子"的紙

You can do tests that show that you'll remember

這已經使你印象深刻,你再試試看

that I was talking about a chair a couple of days later a lot better.

幾天之後當我們再談起"椅子", 你會記得更牢

So when you organize information using the symbols of our memory,

所以利用符號，利用記憶中的符號

using the most common symbols that we've been immersed in all our lives,

利用這些充斥於生活中,隨處可見的符號

you maximally both excite, stimulate,

能使得記憶,傳輸和處理數據

are able to remember, transfer and manipulate data.

發揮和激盪出最大效益

And so virtual worlds are the best way

因此虛擬的網路環境絶對是

for us to essentially organize and experience information.

幫助我們處理和體驗訊息最好的方法

And I think that's something that people have talked about for 20 years --

雖然3D影像技術已經被談論將近20年了

you know, that 3D, that lifelike environments

但它所帶來的逼真虛擬實境

are really important in some magical way to us.

至今依然令人驚奇

But the second thing -- and I think this one is less obvious --

第二個原因,可能沒那麼明顯

is that the experience of creating, consuming, exploring that information

我們在創造,消化以及探索資訊的過程中

is in the virtual world implicitly and inherently social.

虛擬世界所隱含固有的社群經驗

You are always there with other people.

不論何時何地,一定有人和你同時上線

And we as humans are social creatures and must, or are aided by,

人類是群居動物，必須要經由協助

or enjoy more, the consumption of information in the presence of others.

我們需要與別人分享,互動來處理資訊

It's essential to us. You can't escape it.

這很重要,你不能逃脫這個模式

When you're on Amazon.com and you're looking for digital cameras or whatever,

當你上"亞馬遜"網站試著找一台數位相機

you're on there right now, when you're on the site, with like 5,000 other people,

你可能發現同時有5000人在線上,也在這網站上

but you can't talk to them.

但你無法和他們交談

You can't just turn to the people that are browsing digital cameras

你無法和這群和你同樣在瀏覽著數位相機的人

on the same page as you, and ask them,

並且問他們

"Hey, have you seen one of these before? Because I'm thinking about buying it."

"你有看過這款嗎?我想買耶!"

That experience of like, shopping together, just as a simple example,

這種互動的經驗,簡單來說,像是一起逛街

is an example of how as social creatures

是一種人與人間的交流

we want to experience information in that way.

我們需要與人分享

So that second point, that we inherently experience information together

所以第二點是, 我們與生俱來就和別人一起體驗資訊

or want to experience it together,

或者想要一起體驗

is critical to essentially, kind of,

基本上來說很難, 有點像是

this trend of where we're going to use technology to connect us.

我們要用這個科技把我們聯繫在一起的趨勢

And so I think, again, that it's likely that in the next decade or so

而我想, 此外, 應該在下個十年左右

these virtual worlds are going to be the most common way as human beings

這些虛擬世界將會變成最頻繁的方式

that we kind of use the electronics of the Internet, if you will,

就像是我們使用網路，你們也會

to be together, to consume information.

肩並肩，一起處理資訊

You know, mapping in India -- that's such a great example.

舉一個極為貼切的例子：為印度畫地圖

Maybe the solution there involves talking to other people in real time.

解決問題的辦法可能包含和現實世界的人交談

Asking for advice, rather than any possible way

詢問相關建議，而非給予

that you could just statically organize a map.

技巧性的組織一個地圖的所有可能的方法

So I think that's another big point.

我認為這又是另外一個重點

I think that wherever this is all going,

我想不管這些事情怎麼去發展

whether it's Second Life or its descendants, or something broader

不管是「第二人生」或其更寬更廣的衍生

that happens all around the world at a lot of different points --

都在全世界各個角落有著不同面向的發展

this is what we're going to see the Internet used for,

這正是我們要看網路使用的目的

and total traffic and total unique users is going to invert,

和所有流量及各個獨一無二的使用者

so that the Web and its bibliographic set of text and graphical information

因此網路中每組書目的文字及圖像的資訊

is going to become a tool or a part of that consumption pattern,

將會成為處理資訊的一部分或一個工具

but the pattern itself is going to happen mostly in this type of an environment.

但這種模式大部分會發生在網路這種環境裡

Big idea, but I think highly defensible.

這一個好的想法，

So let me stop there and bring John back,

就讓我停在這然後把約翰帶回來

and maybe we can just have a longer conversation.

或許我們可以有一個更長的談話

Thank you. John. That's great.

謝謝。約翰，這樣很棒。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

John Hockenberry: Why is the creation, the impulse to create Second Life,

約翰●哈根培力(以下簡稱JH)：為什麼是創造力創造了"第二人生"

not a utopian impulse?

而非烏托邦??

Like for example, in the 19th century,

舉一個例子來說，在19世紀

any number of works of literature that imagined alternative worlds

為數可觀的文學作品想像另一個替代的世界

were explicitly utopian.

單純都是烏托邦

Philip Rosedale: I think that's great. That's such a deep question. Yeah.

菲利浦●羅斯德(以下簡稱PR)：我認為這是一個很棒很深的問題

Is a virtual world likely to be a utopia, would be one way I'd say it.

虛擬世界難道都像烏托邦一樣嗎?

The answer is no, and I think the reason why is because

答案是否定的。原因在於

the Web itself as a good example is profoundly bottoms-up.

網路自己本身就是一個很深刻的例子

That idea of infinite possibility, that magic of anything can happen,

甚麼事情都有可能發生這一個無窮的機會

only happens in an environment

只會在一個環境下發生

where you really know that there's a fundamental freedom

一個發自於底層自由的環境

at the level of the individual actor, at the level of the Lego blocks,

在每一個獨立個體，在每一層樂高積木下

if you will, that make up the virtual world.

虛擬世界也因而建立

You have to have that level of freedom, and so I'm often asked that,

我常常要求說，你必須要擁有這些程度的自由

you know, is there a, kind of, utopian or,

你想知道，是否存在類似烏托邦

is there a utopian tendency to Second Life and things like it,

或是有類似於烏托邦趨勢

that you would create a world that has a grand scheme to it?

並且在一個龐大的架構下建立的「第二人生」

Those top-down schemes are alienating to just about everybody,

這些由上而下的框架會漸漸地違背大家

even if you mean well when you build them.

即使你當初立意良善的建造

And what's more, human society, when it's controlled,

另外，在一個受到控制下的人類社會

when you set out a grand scheme of rules,

當你設立出一系列規則

a new way of people interacting, or a new way of laying out a city, or whatever,

新的人與人之間的互動方式，或是一個新的都市規劃等

that stuff historically has never scaled much beyond,

這些東西在過育歷史上從未被料到

you know -- I always laughingly say -- the Mall of America, you know,

我常常笑著說，"The Mall of America"

which is like, the largest piece of centrally designed architecture

就像是一大件經由統一設計規劃

that, you know, has been built.

已經建造完成的建築物

JH: The Kremlin was pretty big.

JH:克林姆林宮很大

PR: The Kremlin, yeah. That's true. The whole complex.

PR:沒錯，整體上很大

JH: Give me a story of a tool you created at the beginning

JH:告訴我你當初是怎麼做出來的

in Second Life that you were pretty sure people would want to use

在第二人生裡面你很篤定人們喜歡使用

in the creation of their avatars or in communicating

當人們要製造呈現在虛擬世界的自己或是利用在溝通上面

that people actually in practice said, no, I'm not interested in that at all,

但結果經由一些人使用後又完全對這些東西沒興趣

and name something that you didn't come up with

同時列出一些你當初沒有想到

that almost immediately people began to demand.

但又有許多人很需要的東西

PR: I'm sure I can think of multiple examples of both of those.

PR:我相信我可以找到許多關於這兩個問題的例子

One of my favorites. I had this feature that I built into Second Life --

舉一個在第二人生我做的東西當中我最喜歡的東西當例子

I was really passionate about it.

我對這樣東西充滿熱情

It was an ability to kind of walk up close to somebody

這個東西讓我們可以走向前靠近任何一個人

and have a more private conversation,

藉此可以擁有一個更私密的對談

but it wasn't instant messaging because you had to sort of befriend somebody.

但這又不像是即時通訊，因為你必須要先向對方示好

It was just this idea that you could kind of have a private chat.

這就像進行一個私人的談話

I just remember it was one of those examples of data-driven design.

那是一個資料驅動的設計

I thought it was such a good idea from my perspective,

我想像這會是一個極為棒的想法

and it was just absolutely never used, and we ultimately --

但他從未被實際運用

I think we've now turned it off, if I remember.

現在整個功能已被停用

We finally gave up, took it out of the code.

我們終於放棄它，把它從原始碼中抽了出來

But more generally, you know, one other example I think about this,

另外一個廣泛的例子

which is great relative to the utopian idea.

一個有輒烏托邦概念的點子

Second Life originally had 16 simulators. It now has 20,000.

第二人生原本只有16組模擬器。現在他擴到了兩萬組

So when it only had 16,

在只有16組模擬器的時代裡

it was only about as big as this college campus.

它的規模就像這座大學校園

And we had -- we zoned it, you know: we put a nightclub,

我們還規劃了夜店

we put a disco where you could dance,

並且放了讓大家可以跳舞的迪斯可

and then we had a place where you could fight with guns if you wanted to,

另外還有一個可以讓你和別人拿槍單挑的地方

and we had another place that was like a boardwalk, kind of a Coney Island.

還有另一個地方有著又長又寬的走道，有點像是康尼島

And we laid out the zoning, but of course,

我們針對每一區大致上作了規劃，當然

people could build all around it however they wanted to.

人們也可以隨心所欲的在任何地方大興土木

And what was so amazing right from the start was that the idea

令人驚訝的是這些想法

that we had put out in the zoning concept, basically,

分區規劃的想法一剛開始

was instantly and thoroughly ignored,

是全盤的被忽略的

and like, two months into the whole thing,

最後我們用了兩個月的時間一手打造這個分區的概念

-- which is really a small amount of time, even in Second Life time --

說實在的兩個月的時間不是很長，就像是第二人生的時間一樣

I remember the users, the people who were then using Second Life,

我記得第二人生的使用者

the residents came to me and said, we want to buy the disco --

這位居民向我想買下迪斯可的意願

because I had built it -- we want to buy that land and raze it

他們想要買下那塊土地然後在摧毀再建

and put houses on it. And I sold it to them --

然後蓋一些房子在那邊。

I mean, we transferred ownership and they had a big party

轉交產權給他們

and blew up the entire building.

然後他們在摧毀整棟建築物

And I remember that that was just so telling, you know,

我這麼舉例只想讓你知道

that you didn't know exactly what was going to happen.

你永遠不能預期即將要發生的事情

When you think about stuff that people have built that's popular --

當其他人建造一些很受歡迎建築物的時候

JH: CBGB's has to close eventually, you know. That's the rule.

JH:CBGB酒吧(被公認是龐克音樂的誕生地)最終還是不敵關門大吉的命運

PR: Exactly. And it -- but it closed on day one, basically, in Internet time.

PR:沒錯！在網路時間上它只關門一天

You know, an example of something -- pregnancy.

來舉個例子：懷孕

You can have a baby in Second Life.

你可以在第二人生裡面生小來

This is done entirely using, kind of, the tools that are built into Second Life,

這些可以藉由第二人生裡面的一些工具

so the innate concept of becoming pregnant and having a baby, of course --

這些懷孕生子的概念

Second Life is, at the platform level, at the level of the company -- at Linden Lab --

在公司層面的第二人生平台，在蘭登實驗室

Second Life has no game properties to it whatsoever.

第二人生裡面沒有遊戲成分在

There is no attempt to structure the experience,

我們完全沒有想要有整個生小孩過程的嘗試

to make it utopian in that sense that we put into it.

因此我們轉向放一些烏托邦概念進去

So of course, we never would have put a mechanism for having babies or, you know,

也因如此，我們不可能有生小孩的過程

taking two avatars and merging them, or something.

也就是讓兩個虛擬人結合或是其它的

But people built the ability to have babies and care for babies

但是人們添加了擁有小嬰兒並照顧他的能力

as a purchasable experience that you can have in Second Life and so --

當作一個付費的第二人生擴充功能

I mean, that's a pretty fascinating example of, you know,

我覺得這是一個令人讚嘆的點子

what goes on in the overall economy.

整個消費上的制度和想法

And of course, the existence of an economy is another idea.

當然經濟消費的另外一個想法

I didn't talk about it, but it's a critical feature.

我在這裡不多做說明，因為他是一個棘手的制度

When people are given the opportunity to create in the world,

當人在這個世界上被賦予創造的能力

there's really two things they want.

其中有兩樣事情他們想要

One is fair ownership of the things they create.

其中一個是對他們創造的東西有合理的所有權

And then the second one is -- if they feel like it,

另外一個是

and they're not going to do it in every case, but in many they are --

雖然這可能不是一定會發生，但有時候

they want to actually be able to sell that creation

他們會想要隨時買賣創造出來的東西

as a way of providing for their own livelihood.

作為一個維持他們生活的依據

True on the Web -- also true in Second Life.

不管事在網路或是第二人生這兩條準則都適用

And so the existence of an economy is critical.

也因此經濟活動的存在很關鍵

JH: Questions for Philip Rosedale? Right here.

JH:有觀眾要問菲利浦●羅斯德問題的嗎?那邊那位

(Audience: Well, first an observation, which is that you look like a character.)

觀眾:據我觀察，擬向其中一位虛擬人物

JH: The observation is, Philip has been accused of looking like a character,

JH:這位觀眾所做的觀察，菲利浦被說像是一個

an avatar, in Second Life.

在第二人生的虛擬人物

Respond, and then we'll get the rest of your question.

先讓飛利浦回答，等會再讓你問完問題

PR: But I don't look like my avatar.

PR:但我和我的西你人物完全不像阿

(Laughter)

(笑)

How many people here know what my avatar looks like?

在座各位有誰知道我的虛擬人物長怎樣?

That's probably not very many.

可能大部分的人都不知道吧

JH: Are you ripping off somebody else's avatar with that, sort of --

JH:你是不是會用別人的人物改造成自己的?

PR: No, no. I didn't. One of the other guys at work had a fantastic avatar --

PR:不我不會。但我同事做了一個很炫的人物

a female avatar -- that I used to be once in a while.

我曾經用了一段時間的女性人物

But my avatar is a guy wearing chaps.

但我的人物是一位穿著長布褲的男生

Spiky hair -- spikier than this. Kind of orange hair.

比我現在頭髮還尖刺的橙色刺蝟頭

Handlebar mustache. Kind of a Village People sort of a character.

並留著絡腮鬍。像是一位村民

So, very cool.

哇真酷

JH: And your question?

JH:你的問題是

(Audience: [Unclear].)

(聲音太小聽不見)

JH: The question is, there appears to be a lack of cultural fine-tuning in Second Life.

JH:問題是這樣的，就是說第二人生好像少了點文化元素

It doesn't seem to have its own culture,

他好像並沒有形成自己的文化

and the sort of differences that exist in the real world

像是世界上的文化差異性

aren't translated into the Second Life map.

好像並沒有在第二人生裡面出現

PR: Well, first of all, we're very early,

PR:首先

so this has only been going on for a few years.

第二人生的成立只有短短幾年

And so part of what we see is the same evolution of human behavior

所以我們看到的這些部分有點類似於在這社會中出現的

that you see in emerging societies.

人類行為的演化

So a fair criticism -- is what it is -- of Second Life today is that

對於第二人生比較合理的說法我想

it's more like the Wild West than it is like Rome, from a cultural standpoint.

他在文化的角度來說比較像是西部大拓荒而非羅馬

That said, the evolution of, and the nuanced interaction that creates culture,

文化之間細微的演變

is happening at 10 times the speed of the real world,

正在以相較於現實世界10倍的速度進化著的

and in an environment where, if you walk into a bar in Second Life,

一個環境。當你走進一家酒吧

65 percent of the people there are not in the United States,

有6成5的人不是住在美國

and in fact are speaking their, you know, various and different languages.

事實上他們也說著各種不同的語言

In fact, one of the ways to make money in Second Life

在第二人生裡面賺錢的一個方法是

is to make really cool translators that you drag onto your body

做出一個可以嵌入每一個虛擬人物的體中翻譯工具

and they basically, kind of, pop up on your screen

基本上這工具會這麼運作：一個彈跳的視窗出現

and allow you to use Google or Babel Fish

讓你可以使用GOOGLE或是Babelfish(一個翻譯系統)

or one of the other online text translators to on-the-fly

或是像那種線上翻譯系統的逐字翻譯

translate spoken -- I'm sorry -- typed text between individuals.

翻譯口語對談。抱歉，應該說是兩個人的文字對談

And so, the multicultural nature and the sort of cultural melting pot

文化大熔爐的多元文化現象

that's happening inside Second Life is quite --

正在第二人生進行著

I think, quite remarkable relative to what in real human terms

這和現實生活世界有著

in the real world we've ever been able to achieve.

我們達成非凡的成就一樣

So, I think that culture will fine-tune, it will emerge,

所以我認為文化的問題終究會出現

but we still have some years to wait while that happens,

但我們還需要幾年的時間

as you would naturally expect.

自然的等待文化發展

JH: Other questions? Right here.

JH:還有任何問題嗎?那邊

(Audience: What's your demographic?)

觀眾:想詢問第二人生裡的人口資料

JH: What's your demographic?

JH:第二人生裡的一些人口資料?

PR: So, the question is, what's the demographic.

PR:所以問題是有關於人口資料

So, the average age of a person in Second Life is 32,

在第二人生裡面平均年齡大約是32歲

however, the use of Second Life increases dramatically

但是，使用率會隨著

as your physical age increases. So as you go from age 30 to age 60 --

使用者生理的年齡增加而急遽增加。所當你從30歲到60歲

and there are many people in their sixties using Second Life --

有許多60多歲的人在使用第二人生

this is also not a sharp curve -- it's very, very distributed --

會均勻的分布沒有任何顯著的峰值

usage goes up in terms of, like, hours per week by 40 percent

當你從30歲長到60歲

as you go from age 30 to age 60 in real life, so there's not --

使用率，也就是每週使用的時間會增加四成

many people make the mistake of believing that Second Life

沒有很多人有著第二人生是個線上遊戲的錯誤認知

is some kind of an online game. Actually it's generally unappealing --

有些線上遊戲很難讓人感到很有吸引力的

I'm just speaking broadly and critically --

我是以很廣泛的角度去討論的

it's not very appealing to people that play online video games,

網路遊戲缺乏吸引力的原因在於

because the graphics are not yet equivalent to --

因為線上遊戲的繪圖並沒有辦法比擬

I mean, these are very nice pictures,

那些很精緻的畫質

but in general the graphics are not quite equivalent

舉例來說線上遊戲的畫質沒有像

to the fine-tuned graphics that you see in a Grand Theft Auto 4.

畫面經過優化的俠盜獵車手這一款遊戲來得好

So average age: 32. I mentioned

平均年齡32歲

65 percent of the users are not in the United States.

百分之65的使用者不是來自於美國

The distribution amongst countries is extremely broad.

而是廣泛分布在不同的國家

There's users from, you know, virtually every country in the world now in Second Life.

使用者來自於可說是在第二人生理各個不同的國家

The dominant ones are -- if you take the UK and Europe,

主要來自於英國和歐洲

together they make up about 55 percent of the usage base in Second Life.

那兩個地區加起來就超過5成5

In terms of psychographic --

從心理角度來觀察

oh, men and women: men and women are almost equally matched in Second Life,

舉性別比例來說。在第二人生裡面男女比例大概都差不多

so about 45 percent of the people online right now on Second Life are women.

也就是大約百分之45的女性正在使用第二人生

Women use Second Life, though,

女性使用第二人生的時間

about 30 to 40 percent more, on an hours basis, than men do,

大概會比男性多了30-40%

meaning that more men sign up than women,

意思是說男性的註冊人數較女性來的多

and more women stay and use it than men.

並且女性使用者教會留下來使用

So that's another demographic fact.

這也是另一個

In terms of psychographic, you know, the people in Second Life

以心理度來看的人口資料。在第二人生裡面的人

are remarkably dissimilar relative to what you might think,

和你想像中的會有很顯著的差異

when you go in and talk to them and meet them, and I would, you know,

當你進去並和他們面對面交談你就會得到這些資料

challenge you to just do this and find out.

我很確定你這麼做就可以得到這些資料

But it's not a bunch of programmers.

但若不是一群程式設計者

It's not easy to describe as a demographic.

要統計這些人口資料是很難的

If I had to just sort of paint a broad picture, I'd say, remember the people

如果要給一個較具體的概念，我會這麼說：

who were really getting into eBay in the first few years of eBay?

記不記得當人們當初碰觸到EBAY拍賣第一年的時候

Maybe a little bit like that: in other words, people who are early adopters.

就像這樣。換句話說，第一批使用者

They tend to be creative. They tend to be entrepreneurial.

他們很具有創造力，很具有企業的精神

A lot of them -- about 55,000 people so far -- are cash-flow positive:

目前約有5萬5千人有正的資金收入

they're making money from what -- I mean, real-world money --

他們正靠著他們在第二人生裡的活動

from what they're doing in Second Life, so it's a very build --

賺著真實世界的錢。擁有創造力，

still a creative, building things, build-your-own-business

建造出一個很新潮的建築物、經營自己的事業

type of an orientation. So, that's it.

就是這樣！

JH: You describe yourself, Philip, as someone who was really creative

JH:試著形容一下很有創意

when you were young and, you know, liked to make things.

在年輕喜歡自己動手做東西時候的自己

I mean, it's not often that you hear somebody

我的問題是說，你很難聽到別人

describe themselves as really creative.

形容自己很有創意

I suspect that's possibly a euphemism for C student

我懷疑那些形容自己很有創意的人很有可能分數都拿C

who spent a lot of time in his room? Is it possible?

並且花很多時間在自己的房間裡。這有可能嗎?

(Laughter)

(笑)

PR: I was a -- there were times I was a C student. You know, it's funny.

PR:好玩的是我曾經也是個分數拿C的學生

When I got to college -- I studied physics in college --

當我唸到大學主修物理

and I got really -- it was funny,

然後，這很可笑我知道

because I was definitely a more antisocial kid. I read all the time.

我那時候有點叛逆。但我常常閱讀

I was shy. I don't seem like it now, but I was very shy.

我那時候身性害羞，雖然現在好像不是這麼一回事

Moved around a bunch -- had that experience too.

也經歷過常常在搬家的時候

So I did, kind of, I think, live in my own world,

所以我可以說是活在自己的世界

and obviously that helps, you know, engage your real interest in something.

當然這也幫助我探索自己真正喜愛的事物

JH: So you're on your fifth life at this point?

JH:哦，所以你現在正過著第五人生是吧?

PR: If you count, yeah, cities. So -- but I did --

PR:哈，可能是吧

and I didn't do -- I think I didn't do as well in school as I could have. I think you're right.

你剛說的沒錯，我不是很執著於分數的那種人

I wasn't, like, an obsessed -- you know, get A's kind of guy.

不是那種分數都拿A的人

I was going to say, I had a great social experience

但當我進大學讀書後

when I went to college that I hadn't had before,

擁有有別以往不同的社交經驗

a more fraternal experience, where I met six or seven other guys

同時也認識的5.6位死黨

who I studied physics with, and I was very competitive with them,

大家一起念物理，一起競爭

so then I started to get A's. But you're right: I wasn't an A student.

然後我的分數才拿A。但你沒錯，我不是為很好的學生

JH: Last question. Right here.

JH:最後一個問題。邊

(Audience: In the pamphlet, there's a statement -- )

觀眾:在小冊子裡面有一段陳述...

JH: You want to paraphrase that?

JH:菲利浦你在重新產觸一下這段好嗎?

PR: Yeah, so let me restate that.

PR:沒問題，我再重新說明一遍

So, you're saying that in the pamphlet there's a statement

所以你提到說在小冊子裡面的某一段敘述

that we may come to prefer our digital selves to our real ones --

就是我們可能比較傾向於數位的世界而非真實的世界

our more malleable or manageable digital identities to our real identities --

起因於數位身分相較於真實身分較彈性較易管理

and that in fact, much of human life and human experience

同時在人類的世界有許多東西和經驗

may move into the digital realm.

將會被移轉到數位的世界

And then that's kind of a horrifying thought, of course.

雖然這是一個很恐怖的事實

That's a frightening change, frightening disruption.

一個恐怖的改變及分裂

I guess, and you're asking, what do I think about that? How do I --

我想你是想問我對於這個改變的想法?我怎麼去

JH: What's your response to the people who would say, that's horrifying?

JH:你要怎麼回應這些認為這些改變很恐怖的人?

(Audience: If someone would say to you, I find that disturbing,

觀眾:如果有人和你說，我覺得這個改變很煩

what would be your response?)

底的回答會和他一樣嗎?

PR: Well, I'd say a couple of things.

PR:關於這個問題

One is, it's disturbing like the Internet or electricity was.

第一，這惱人的程度就像網路和電力一樣

That is to say, it's a big change, but it isn't avoidable.

就是說，這是一個很劇烈無可避免的改變

So, no amount of backpedaling or intentional behavior

所以沒有任何的政治力

or political behavior is going to keep these technology changes

來阻止或減緩這一系列用來連結我們

from connecting us together,

科技的改變

because the basic motive that people have --

因為人個基本的動力：

to be creative and entrepreneurial -- is going to drive energy

創造力和企業家精神是用來

into these virtual worlds in the same way that it has with the Web.

和網路一樣的驅使這一虛擬世界。

So this change, I believe, is a huge disruptive change.

所以這些改變我相信是一個劇烈性的改變

Obviously, I'm the optimist and a big believer in what's going on here,

很顯然地，我對於這些改驗抱持著一種樂觀的態度

but I think that as -- even a sober, you know, the most sober,

但我認為身為一個旁觀者，大部分的旁觀者

disconnected thinker about this, looking at it from the side,

和當事者分離，從旁觀的角度觀察

has to conclude, based on the data,

必須要藉由經濟的力量

that with those kinds of economic forces at play,

的資料來做出結論

there is definitely going to be a sea change,

這些改變必然是個巨變

and that change is going to be intensely disruptive

這些有關於我們的生活及行為模式的改變

relative to our concept of our very lives and being,

將會是很劇烈地

and our identities, as well.

同時也會影響到我們的身分

I don't think we can get away from those changes.

我不相信我們可以逃避這些改變

I think generally, we were talking about this --

一般談論到這個

I think that generally being present in a virtual world and being challenged by it,

在虛擬世界中存在並且正在挑戰面對的改變

being -- surviving there, having a good life there, so to speak,

在虛擬世界裡面能夠存活，有一個好的生活

is a challenge because of the multiculturality of it,

都是一個挑戰因為文化的多性

because of the languages, because of the entrepreneurial richness of it,

因為語言

the sort of flea market nature, if you will, of the virtual world today.

因為一個類似於跳蚤市場的天性。如果可以，現今的虛擬世界

It puts challenges on us to rise to. We must be better than ourselves, in many ways.

在面對這麼多挑戰當中，我們必須要多面向的強化自己

We must learn things and, you know, be more tolerant,

我們必須回會包容

and be smarter and learn faster and be more creative, perhaps,

並且相較於典型的生活

than we are typically in our real lives.

要更聰明更具有創造力

And I think that if that is true of virtual worlds,

我認為這些在虛擬世界中也是適用的

then these changes, though scary -- and, I say, inevitable --

這些無可避免的改變雖恐怖

are ultimately for the better,

但終究是往好的方向走

and therefore something that we should ride out.

一個可以安全度過的好方法

But I would say that -- and many other authors and speakers about this,

這我可能和其他講者一致

other than me, have said, you know, fasten your seat belts

就是準備好一竊，繫好安全帶

because the change is coming. There are going to be big changes.

因為重大的改變正要發生。將會有一系列的改變

JH: Philip Rosedale, thank you very much.

JH:謝謝你菲利浦●羅斯德,

(Applause)

（掌聲）