The truth about unwanted arousal | Emily Nagoski

翻译人员: Yu Lina 校对人员: psjmz mz

[This talk contains mature content Viewer discretion is advised]

【本篇演讲包含成人内容。 建议慎重观看。】

My specialty, as a sex educator, is I bring the science.

作为一名性教育者，我的专长是科普。

But my first and most important job is that I stay neutral

但在谈论任何性相关的内容时，

when I talk about anything sex-related,

我的首要任务是保持中立。

no embarrassment, no titillation, no judgment, no shame,

不尴尬，不取悦，不评价，不羞愧。

no matter where I am.

不管我在哪，

No matter what question you ask me.

也不管你会问什么问题。

At the end of a conference in a hotel lobby once,

有次在宾馆大厅内，

I'm literally on my way out the door and a colleague chases me down.

当会议结束，我正要离开时， 一位同事追上我。

"Emily, I just have a really quick question.

“艾米莉，我就想问个小问题。

A friend of mine --

我一个朋友——

(Laughter)

(笑声)

wants to know if it's possible to get addicted to her vibrator."

想知道用按摩棒会不会上瘾？”

The answer is no, but it is possible to get spoiled.

答案是不会，不过她可能会被宠坏。

A different conference, this one in an outdoor tropical paradise,

在另一场位于 户外热带天堂的会议上，

I'm at the breakfast buffet, and a couple approaches me.

我在吃自助早餐， 然后有对夫妇走近我。

"Hi, Emily, we're sorry to interrupt you

“嗨，艾米莉，很抱歉打扰你。

but we just wanted to ask a quick question about premature ejaculation."

不过我们就想问个早泄的小问题。”

"Sure, let me tell you about the stop/start technique."

“当然可以，让我来给你们 介绍一下 ‘停-动’ 技巧。”

That is my life.

这就是我的生活。

I stay neutral when other people might "squick."

我在他人可能感到 “squick” 的时候保持中立。

Squick is an emotion that combines surprise

Squick 是一种包含惊讶和尴尬，

with embarrassment plus some disgust

外加一些恶心的情绪，

and like, not knowing what to do with your hands.

就和你紧张时不知道 把手放在哪的感觉差不多。

So, it's a product.

所以，这是一种产物。

The reason you experience it

你之所以会有这样的感受，

is because you spent the first two decades of your life

是因为你用人生头二十年的时间了解到，

learning that sex is a dangerous and disgusting source of everlasting shame

性是无休止的羞耻感的 危险又恶心的源头。

and if you're not really good at it, no one will ever love you.

而如果你不擅长此道，没有人会爱你。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So you might squick, hearing me talk about sex

所以当你和满屋子陌生人 坐在一起听我讲述性时，

while you're sitting in a room full of strangers -- that is normal.

你可能会有这种感受，但这很正常。

I invite you to breathe.

请深呼吸。

Feelings are tunnels.

想象自己身处一条隧道，

We make our way through the darkness to get to the light at the end.

我们要穿过黑暗才能抵达光明的尽头。

And I promise it's worth it.

我保证这是值得的。

Because I want to share with you today a piece of science

因为我今天想和你们 分享一个科学知识，

that has changed how I think about everything,

它改变了我思考事情的方式——

from the behavior of neurotransmitters in our emotional brain,

从我们情绪脑内的神经传递活动，

to the dynamics of our interpersonal relationships.

到我们人际关系间的驱动力，

To our judicial system.

再到我们的司法制度。

And it starts with our brain.

这一切都始于我们的大脑。

There's an area of your brain you've probably heard referred to

你可能听说过，在大脑内部有块区域

as the "reward center."

叫做“奖赏中枢”。

I think calling it the reward center

但我觉得叫它“奖赏中枢”

is a little bit like calling your face your nose.

有点像指脸为鼻。

That is one prominent feature,

那的确是一个非常显眼的特征，

but it ignores some other parts and will leave you really confused

但这称呼忽视了其它特征部分， 并且会让你非常困惑，

if you're trying to understand how faces work.

如果你正在试着理解 脸部是如何运作的。

It's actually three intertwined but separable systems.

事实上这块区域由三个相互交织 但又彼此独立的系统组成。

The first system is liking.

第一个系统是喜欢。

Which is like reward,

这和奖励相似，

so this is the opioid hotspots in your emotional brain.

这是你情绪脑内的成瘾热区。

It assesses hedonic impact --

它评估快感的程度——

"Does this stimulus feel good?

“这个刺激感觉好吗？

How good?

有多好？

Does this stimulus feel bad?

这个刺激感觉糟糕吗？

How bad?"

有多糟糕？”

If you drop sugar water on the tongue of a newborn infant,

如果你在一个新生儿的 舌头上滴点糖水，

the opioid-liking system sets off fireworks.

成瘾机制就会燃起星星之火。

And then there's the wanting system.

接下来就是欲望系统了。

Wanting is mediated by this vast dopaminergic network

欲望通过巨大的多巴胺网络，

in and beyond the emotional brain.

在情绪脑内外进行调节。

It motivates us to move toward or away from a stimulus.

它驱使我们靠近或远离刺激。

Wanting is more like your toddler, following you around,

欲望更像是你的小孩，到处跟着你，

asking for another cookie.

吵着要再吃一块饼干。

So wanting and liking are related.

所以欲望和喜欢是相关的。

They are not identical.

但它们不能等同。

And the third system is learning.

然后第三个系统是习得。

Learning is Pavlov's dogs.

习得就是巴甫洛夫的狗。

You remember Pavlov?

还记得巴甫洛夫吗？

他让狗在听到铃声后分泌唾液。

He makes dogs salivate in response to a bell.

这很简单，你给狗食物， 让它自然流口水，

It's easy, you give a dog food, salivates automatically,

and you ring a bell.

然后你摇铃。

食物，流口水，摇铃。

Food, salivate, bell.

食物，摇铃，流口水。

Food, bell, salivate.

Bell, salivate.

摇铃，流口水。

Does that salivation mean that the dog wants to eat the bell?

狗分泌唾液就意味着它想吃铃铛吗？

Does it mean that the dog finds the bell delicious?

这意味着狗发现铃铛很好吃吗？

No.

不。

What Pavlov did was make the bell food-related.

巴甫洛夫所做的， 是让铃铛与食物关联。

When we see this separateness of wanting, liking and learning,

当我们理解了欲望、 喜欢和习得三者的独立性，

this is where we find an explanatory framework

那么我们就发现了一种解释框架，

for understanding what researchers call arousal nonconcordance.

能够用来理解研究者所称的 “觉醒失调”。

Nonconcordance, very simply,

“失调”的意思很简单，

is when there is a lack of predictive relationship

就是说你的生理反应，比如说分泌唾液，

between your physiological response, like salivation,

和你愉悦、渴望的主观体验之间

and your subjective experience of pleasure and desire.

缺乏一种可预测的关系。

That happens in every emotional and motivational system that we have,

这发生于我们拥有的每一个 情绪性和驱动性的系统中，

including sex.

也包括性。

Research over the last 30 years

过去 30 年的研究表明，

has found that genital blood flow can increase

生殖器部位的血液流速会随着

in response to sex-related stimuli

性刺激增加而增加，

even if those sex-related stimuli are not also associated

即使那些性刺激并不与

with the subjective experience of wanting and liking.

欲望和喜欢这些主观体验相关联。

In fact, the predictive relationship

事实上，在性反应和主观体验之间的

between genital response and subjective experience

可预测关联度

is between 10 and 50 percent.

在 10% 到 50% 之间，

Which is an enormous range.

这是个很大的范围。

You just can't predict necessarily

仅仅通过观测生殖器部位的血液流速，

how a person feels about that sex-related stimulus

你真的没办法去预测一个人

just by looking at their genital blood flow.

对性刺激有怎样的感受。

When I explained this to my husband, he gave me the best possible example.

当我向我丈夫解释这些的时候， 他给了我一个可能是最好的例子。

他是这么说的：

He was like,

“那么这就能解释我高中时有一次

"So, that could explain this one time, when I was in high school, I ...

I got an erection in response to the phrase 'doughnut hole.'"

在听到词语 ‘甜甜圈洞’ 后勃起了。”

(Laughter)

(笑声)

Did he want to have sex with the doughnut?

他当时是想和甜甜圈发生性关系吗？

No.

不。

He was a teenage boy flooded with testosterone,

他那时处在青春期， 脑子里充满了性幻想，

which makes everything a little bit sex-related.

这让一切东西都和性有点关联。

And it can go in both directions.

这可以从正反两方面看待。

A person with a penis may struggle to get an erection one evening,

一个有着阴茎的人可能会 在某晚因无法勃起而苦恼，

and then wake up the very next morning with an erection,

然后在第二天的晨勃中醒来，

when it's nothing but a hassle.

而这时候，这就成了件麻烦事儿。

I got a phone call from a 30-something friend, a woman,

一个 30 岁左右的女性朋友 曾给我打电话，

she said, "So, my partner and I were in the middle of doing some things

她说：“我和伴侣正在做那事儿，

然后我正处在 ‘我现在想要你’ 的状态。

and I was like, 'I want you right now.'

And he said, 'No, you're still dry, you're just being nice.'

可他却说：‘不，你那里仍然很干， 你还没准备好，别装了。’

And I was so ready.

可我当时已经准备好了。

So what's the matter, is it hormonal, should I talk to a doctor,

到底怎么回事？ 这是不是跟激素有关？

我是不是该咨询一下医生？”

what's going on?"

Answer?

答案是——

觉醒失调。

It's arousal nonconcordance.

如果你正在经历 令人不快的痛苦，就咨询医生。

If you're experiencing unwanted pain, talk to a medical provider.

Otherwise -- arousal nonconcordance.

不然就是——觉醒失调。

Your genital behavior just doesn't necessarily predict

你的生理行为真的无法预测

your subjective experience of liking and wanting.

主观上的喜欢和欲望。

Another friend, back in college,

我还有一个大学时期的朋友，

told me about her first experiences of power play in a sexual relationship.

告诉了我她在一段性关系中的 第一次“角色扮演”经历。

She told me that her partner tied her up

她伴侣的手臂绕过她的头，圈住她，

with her arms over her head like this, she's standing up and he positions her

就像这样子，她站着， 而伴侣要求她摆出这样的姿势，

所以她跨坐在吧台上， 抵靠着她的阴蒂，就像这样。

so she's straddling a bar, presses up against her clitoris, like this.

我朋友就这样站在那里， 而那个家伙离开了——

So there's my friend, standing there, and the guy leaves.

It's a power play.

在角色扮演当中——

Leaves her alone.

留下她一人。

So there's my friend, and she goes,

然后我朋友说，

"I'm bored."

“太无聊了。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And the guy comes back and she says, "I am bored."

然后那家伙回来了， 我朋友说 “太无聊了。”

And he looks at her and he looks at the bar

然后他看着她，又看了看吧台，

and he says, "Then why are you wet?"

说道：“那你为什么会湿呢？”

Why was she wet?

为什么她湿了呢？

Is it sex-related to have pressure directly against your clitoris?

这是直接按压你的阴蒂 产生的性反应吗？

Yeah.

当然了。

Does that tell him whether she wants or likes what's happening?

那这就等于告诉了那家伙 她是否想继续这一性行为吗？

Nope.

不。

What does tell him whether she wants or likes what's happening?

她告诉了他自己是否 想要或喜欢当时的体验吗？

She does!

是的！

She recognized and articulated what she wanted and liked.

她意识到了并表达了 她想要什么、喜欢什么。

All he had to do was listen to her words.

那个家伙所要做的就是听她说的话。

My friend on the phone -- what's the solution?

那对给我打电话的朋友—— 他们的解决方法是什么呢？

You tell your partner, "Listen to your words."

告诉你的伴侣，“听我说的话。”

Also, buy some lube.

同时，买点润滑剂。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

Applause for lube, absolutely.

绝对得为润滑剂鼓掌。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Everyone, everywhere.

大家都得鼓掌。

But I want to tell you a darker listen-to-her-words story.

但是我想告诉你们一个 更黑暗的“听她说”的故事。

This one comes from a note that a student sent me

在我讲完一堂关于觉醒失调的课后，

after I gave a lecture about arousal nonconcordance.

一个学生递给我一张纸条。

She was with a partner, a new partner, glad to be doing things,

她当时刚刚交上新男友， 乐意享鱼水之欢，

and they reached a point

他们到了

where that was as far as she was interested in going

她很想进行下去的阶段，

而她说了“不要”。

and so she said no.

And the partner said, "No, you're wet, you're so ready, don't be shy."

她的伴侣说：“不，你下面很湿润， 你已经准备好了，别害羞。”

Shy?

她害羞吗？

As if it hadn't taken all the courage and confidence she had

就好像她没有鼓起足够的勇气和自信

to say no to someone she liked.

向喜欢的人说不一样。

Whose feelings she did not want to hurt.

她并不想伤害那个人的感受。

But she said it again.

但是她又说了一次。

She said no.

她说了“不要”。

Did he listen to her words?

她的伴侣听她的话了吗？

In the age of Me Too and Time's Up, people ask me,

在 Me Too 和 Time's Up （均为反性骚扰行动）的时代，人们问我，

"How do I even know what my partner wants and likes?

“我怎么就知道伴侣 想要什么或喜欢什么呢？

现在所有的同意都得是 言之凿凿、契约性的吗？“

Is all consent to be verbal and contractual now?"

There are times when consent is ambiguous

有时候同意与否是非常含糊的，

and we need a large-scale cultural conversation about that.

在这方面，我们需要大量的文化交流。

But can we make sure we're noticing how clear consent is

但是如果要消除这个误区， 可否确保我们能注意到

if we eliminate this myth?

伴侣的“同意”有多明确？

In every example I've described so far,

在目前我提到的每个例子中，

one partner recognized and articulated what they wanted and liked:

伴侣中的一方都意识到并表达出了 他们所要的、所喜欢的：

"I want you right now."

“我现在就要你。”

"No."

“不。”

And their partner told them they were wrong.

然后另一方 告诉他们，他们错了。

It's gaslighting.

这是在糊弄对方——

Profound and degrading.

强烈的、贬低性的。

You say you feel one way,

你说你的感觉这样的，

but your body proves that you feel something else.

但你的身体证明你的感觉是那样的。

And we only do this around sexuality,

并且我们只在性行为上有这种情况，

because arousal nonconcordance

其实觉醒失调

happens with every emotional and motivational system we have.

发生于我们每一个 情绪性和驱动性系统中。

If my mouth waters when I bite into a wormy apple,

如果我咬了有虫子的苹果并流了口水，

does anybody say to me,

会有人跟我说，

"You said no, but your body said yes?"

“你说了不，但是你的身体说了 ‘好’ ” 吗？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And it's not only our partners who get it wrong.

而且在这方面， 不光我们的伴侣搞错了。

The National Judicial Education Program published a document

国家司法教育项目公开过一份文件，

called "Judges Tell: What I Wish I Had Known Before I Presided

叫做《法官告诉你： 我想在一场成人受害的性侵案

in a Case of an Adult Victim of Sexual Assault."

开庭前知道的事》。

Number 13:

第十三件：

On occasion, the victim, female or male, may experience a physical response,

有时候，受害人——无论男女—— 可能经历一种生理反应，

but this is not a sexual response in the sense of desire or mutuality."

但并不出于渴望或相互同意。

This brings me one step closer into the darkness,

这使我离黑暗又近了一步，

and then I promise we will find our way into the light.

但我能保证我们将找到光明的出路。

我正在思考一场最近的案件，涉及到

I'm thinking of a recent court case involving multiple instances

多种关于非自愿性接触的实例。

of non-consensual sexual contact.

Imagine you're on the jury

想象你是法庭上的一名陪审员，

and you learn that the victim had orgasms.

你知道受害人经历了性高潮。

Does it change how your gut responds to the case?

这会不会改变 你对本案的本能反应呢？

Let me remind you, orgasm is physiological;

让我提醒你一下，高潮是生理性的；

it is a spontaneous, involuntary release of tension,

这是自发的、无意识的紧张感的释放，

generated in response to sex-related stimuli.

产生于性刺激的反应。

But the perpetrator’s lawyer made sure the jury knew about those orgasms

但是罪犯的律师 确信陪审团了解那些高潮反应，

because he thought the orgasms could be construed as consent.

因为他认为，高潮可以 被视为同意的结果。

I will also add that this was a child being abused by an adult in the family.

我补充一点，这是有关 一个孩子被家庭成员虐待的案子。

I invite you to breathe.

请各位深呼吸。

That kind of story can give a person all kind of feelings,

这样的故事会使人百味陈杂——

from rage to shame to confused arousal

从愤怒到羞耻，再到令人迷惑的性觉醒，

because it is sex-related,

因为这与性相关，

even though it is appalling.

即使这很令人震惊。

But even though I know it's difficult

但是，即便我知道 怀着这样的感受

to sit with those feelings in a room full of strangers,

和一屋子陌生人共处一室很难，

然而如果我们可以 在这些糟糕的感受中找到出路，

if we can find our way through all of the messy feelings,

I believe we will find our way to the light of compassion

我相信，我们会找到正确的方法

for that child,

去同情那个孩子。

whose relationship with her body was damaged

她与她身体的关系

by an adult whose job it was to protect it.

被一个本该保护她的成年人破坏了。

And we'll find hope that there was a trustworthy adult

我们也能够怀揣这样的希望： 有一个可靠的成年人

who could say, "Genital response

原本可以说： “性反应仅仅意味着有性刺激；

just means it was a sex-related stimulus; doesn't mean it was wanted or liked,

这并不代表它被人渴望或喜欢，

certainly doesn't mean it was consented to.

当然也不代表 它是经过当事人同意的。”

(Applause)

（掌声）

That compassion and that hope are why I travel all over,

这样的同理心和希望 正是我周游四处，

talking about this to anyone who will listen.

向任何会听下去的人 谈论此时的原因。

I can see it helping people, even as I say the words.

我看到它能够帮助他人， 甚至我说的这些话也能。

I invite you to say the words.

我邀请你们去说这样的话。

You don't have to say "clitoris" in front of 1000 strangers.

你没有必要 在 1000 个陌生人面前说“阴蒂”一词，

But do have one brave conversation.

但请尝试着进行一场大胆的交流。

Tell this to someone you know who has experienced sexual violence --

把这个故事告诉给 你所知道的遭受过性暴力的人——

你一定知道有类似经历的人。

you definitely know someone.

In the US it's one in three women.

在美国，有三分之一的女性，

One in six men.

六分之一的男性，

Almost half of transgender folks.

还有几乎一半的跨性别群体 遭受过性暴力。

Say "Genital response means it's a sex-related stimulus.

勇敢的说出， “性反应代表的只是性刺激。

It doesn't mean it was wanted or liked."

这并不代表对方想要或喜欢”。

Say it to a judge you know or a lawyer you know,

去告诉一个你认识的法官、律师、

or a cop or anyone who might sit on a jury in a sexual assault case.

警察，或任何可能会 坐在性侵案件法庭里的人。

Say "Some people think that your body doesn't respond

告诉他们，“有些人认为，如果 你不想要或不喜欢正在发生的事情时，

if you don't want or like what's happening,

你的身体并不会做出反应，

if only that were true.

事实并非如此。

Instead, arousal nonconcordance.

相反，那只是觉醒失调。”

Say this to the confused teenager in your life

告诉你生命中的那个困惑的青少年，

who is just trying to figure out what, even, what?

趁着他/她对这一切还只是懵懵懂懂。

Say, if you bite this moldy fruit and your mouth waters,

告诉大家，如果你咬了 有虫子的水果却流了口水，

nobody would say to you,

没有人会去告诉你：

"Well, you just don't want to admit how much you like it."

“啊，你就是不想承认 你有多喜欢这水果。”

Same goes for down below, arousal nonconcordance.

接下来的就是一样的陈述， 觉醒失调。

Say it to your partner.

去告诉你的伴侣，

My genitals do not tell you what I want or like.

我的生殖器官不会告诉你 我想要或喜欢什么。

I do.

只有我才能告诉你。

(Applause)

（掌声）

The roots of this myth are deep

这一误解根深蒂固，

and they are entangled with some very dark forces in our culture.

而且它们与我们文化中一些 非常黑暗的力量相纠缠。

But with every brave conversation we have,

但是通过每一场大胆的交谈，

we make the world that little bit better, a little simpler

我们会让那些 困惑的青少年眼中的世界

for the confused teenager.

变得更好一点点，更简单一点点。

A little easier for your friend on the phone, worried that she's broken.

让打电话给你、担心会崩溃的 朋友的世界变得更简单一点；

A little easier and safer

让那些性暴力的受害者——

for the survivors, one in three women.

三分之一的女性、

One in six men.

六分之一的男性

Half of trans folks.

和一半的跨性别群体的 世界更简单一点。

Me too.

我也是。

So for every brave conversation you have,

我会为你们每一次大胆的交谈

thank you.

而感谢你们。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you.

谢谢你们。

Thanks.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Helen Walters: Emily, come up here.

海伦·沃特斯（Helen Walters）: 艾米莉，请往台前一步。

Thank you so much.

非常感谢你。

I know that you do this all the time,

虽然我知道你一直在做这项活动，

and yet, still, I'm so grateful to you for having the courage

但我仍要感激你拥有如此的勇气

to come and talk about that on this stage.

来到这个舞台上谈论这一问题。

It really took a lot and we're very grateful to you.

这真的需要很大的勇气， 我们非常感激你。

So thank you.

谢谢你。

Emily Nagoski: I am grateful to be here.

艾米莉·纳科斯 : 我很感谢能够来到这里。

海伦：在你的日常工作中，

HW: So in your regular day job,

I imagine, as you put at the top of the talk,

我能想象，就像你 在演讲开头所提到的那样，

you get asked a lot of questions.

你被问了许多问题。

But what's the one question that you get asked all the time

那么，你能不能和在座的各位分享一下

that you can share with everyone here so you don't have to answer it 1000 times

你最经常被问到的问题？ 这样你就不需要在这周余下的时间

throughout the rest of the week?

再回答 1000 遍了。

EN: The question I get asked most often

艾米莉：我最经常被问到的问题

is actually the question underneath pretty much all the other questions,

实际上深深埋藏在其他问题之下：

用按摩棒会不会上瘾呢？

so, can you get addicted to your vibrator,

请问能否帮助我治疗早泄问题？

please help me with my erectile dysfunction?

事实上，在这些问题之下 隐藏着这个问题：“我正常吗？”

Underneath every question is actually the question, "Am I normal?"

To which my answer in my mind is,

而我心里的答案是，

what even is normal and why is that what you want your sexuality to be?

到底什么才算正常， 什么才是你想要的性体验呢？

Why do we only want to be normal around sexuality?

为什么我们在性行为上 只考虑正不正常的问题呢？

Don't we want to be extraordinary?

难道我们不想要变得非凡无比吗？

Like, do you just want normal sex or do you want awesome sex in your life?

想想看，你是只想要普通的， 还是想拥有很棒的性体验？

I think, though, there's a lot of fear

我认为，尽管人们仍然很害怕

around being too different sexually.

经历过于另类的性行为，

When people are asking me,

但当人们问我：

"Is this thing I'm experiencing normal,"

“我正在经历的性行为正常吗？”

what they're actually asking me is, "Do I belong?"

他们实际上要问我的是： “我合群吗？”

Do I belong in this relationship,

我适合于这段感情吗？

do I belong in this community of people,

我属于这类群体吗？

do I belong on earth as a sexual person?

作为有性欲的人， 我属于正常人的范畴吗？

To which the answer is always a resounding yes.

而这些问题的答案永远都是肯定的。

The only barrier there is, the only limit there is, there are two:

唯一存在的阻碍，唯一的限制有两点：

one, if you're experiencing unwanted sexual pain,

第一，如果你正在经历 令人不快的性疼痛，

talk to a medical provider.

告诉你的医生。

And two: As along as everybody involved is free and glad to be there,

第二，只要参与其中的 每个人都自由、乐意

and free to leave whenever they want to,

并随时想离开就离开，

you're allowed to do anything that you want to.

你就可以做任何你想做的事。

There is no script, there is no box you have to fit into,

这里没有剧本， 没有严格的规定需要遵守，

you're allowed, as long as there is consent and no unwanted pain,

只要两方合意、 不存在令人不快的痛苦，

you're totally free to do whatever you want.

你就可以完全自由的 去做任何你想做的事。

HW: Amazing. Thank you so much.

海伦：太棒了。非常感谢你。

EN: Thank you.

艾米莉：谢谢你。

HW: Thank you, you're incredible.

海伦：谢谢，太棒了。

(Applause)

（掌声）