The truth about unwanted arousal | Emily Nagoski

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Yanyan Hong

[This talk contains mature content Viewer discretion is advised]

【本演說含有成人內容， 請觀眾自行斟酌考量。】

My specialty, as a sex educator, is I bring the science.

身為一名性教育者， 我的專長是引入科學。

But my first and most important job is that I stay neutral

但我最優先也最重要的工作， 是要保持中立的態度，

when I talk about anything sex-related,

來談任何和性相關的事情，

no embarrassment, no titillation, no judgment, no shame,

沒有尷尬，沒有挑逗， 沒有評斷，沒有羞恥，

no matter where I am.

不論我在哪裡。

No matter what question you ask me.

不論你問我什麼問題。

At the end of a conference in a hotel lobby once,

有次，一場大會結束， 在飯店的大廳中，

I'm literally on my way out the door and a colleague chases me down.

我正要走出門， 有一位同事追出來找我。

"Emily, I just have a really quick question.

「艾蜜莉，讓我快速問個問題就好。

A friend of mine --

我有一個朋友——

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

wants to know if it's possible to get addicted to her vibrator."

想要知道她有沒有可能 會對按摩器上癮。」

The answer is no, but it is possible to get spoiled.

答案是，不會， 但倒是有可能會被寵壞。

A different conference, this one in an outdoor tropical paradise,

還有另一場大會， 它是個戶外的熱帶天堂，

I'm at the breakfast buffet, and a couple approaches me.

我在吃自助式早餐， 有一對夫妻來找我。

"Hi, Emily, we're sorry to interrupt you

「嗨，艾蜜莉，很抱歉打擾您，

but we just wanted to ask a quick question about premature ejaculation."

但我們想要快速問一個 關於早洩的問題。」

"Sure, let me tell you about the stop/start technique."

「好啊，讓我告訴你們 阻止／開始早洩的技巧。」

That is my life.

這就是我的人生。

I stay neutral when other people might "squick."

在其他人可能會「嫌惡」的 情況下，我會保持中立。

Squick is an emotion that combines surprise

嫌惡是一種情緒，它結合了驚訝、

with embarrassment plus some disgust

尷尬，還有一些厭惡感，

and like, not knowing what to do with your hands.

就像是不知道 你的雙手要做什麼好。

So, it's a product.

所以，嫌惡是一種產物。

The reason you experience it

你之所以會經歷到它，

is because you spent the first two decades of your life

是因為在你人生中的前二十年中，

learning that sex is a dangerous and disgusting source of everlasting shame

你學的都是：性是危險且噁心的， 會造成永久的羞恥，

and if you're not really good at it, no one will ever love you.

還有如果你不擅長性， 就永遠不會有人愛你。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So you might squick, hearing me talk about sex

所以，當你和一群陌生人 同處在一個地方，

while you're sitting in a room full of strangers -- that is normal.

又聽到我談到性，你可能就會 有嫌惡感—— 那很正常。

I invite you to breathe.

請各位呼吸。

Feelings are tunnels.

感覺是隧道。

We make our way through the darkness to get to the light at the end.

我們穿過黑暗， 最後會在終點找到光。

And I promise it's worth it.

我保證是值得的。

Because I want to share with you today a piece of science

因為今天我想要 和各位分享一項科學，

that has changed how I think about everything,

它改變了我對一切的看法，

from the behavior of neurotransmitters in our emotional brain,

從我們情緒大腦中神經遞質的行為，

to the dynamics of our interpersonal relationships.

到我們人際關係的動力。

To our judicial system.

到我們的司法體制。

And it starts with our brain.

它從我們的大腦開始。

There's an area of your brain you've probably heard referred to

在大腦中有一個區域， 你們可能有聽過，

as the "reward center."

叫做「酬償中樞」。

I think calling it the reward center

我想把它稱為酬償中樞，

is a little bit like calling your face your nose.

就有點像是把你的臉 叫做你的鼻子。

That is one prominent feature,

那是一個顯著的特徵沒錯，

but it ignores some other parts and will leave you really confused

但其他部分卻被忽略了， 且若你想要了解臉部

if you're trying to understand how faces work.

如何運作，就會覺得很混淆。

It's actually three intertwined but separable systems.

它其實是三個交織在一起 但又各自獨立的系統。

The first system is liking.

第一個系統是喜歡。

Which is like reward,

它就像是酬償，

so this is the opioid hotspots in your emotional brain.

所以這是你情緒大腦的鴉片熱點。

It assesses hedonic impact --

它會評估快樂的影響——

"Does this stimulus feel good?

「這種刺激的感覺好嗎？

How good?

有多好？

Does this stimulus feel bad?

這種刺激的感覺糟嗎？

How bad?"

有多糟？」

If you drop sugar water on the tongue of a newborn infant,

若你在新生兒的舌頭上 滴幾滴糖水，

the opioid-liking system sets off fireworks.

鴉片喜歡系統就會放煙火了。

And then there's the wanting system.

下一個系統是想要。

Wanting is mediated by this vast dopaminergic network

「想要」是透過 情緒大腦內外一個巨大的

多巴胺網路來傳遞的。

in and beyond the emotional brain.

It motivates us to move toward or away from a stimulus.

它能驅使我們朝刺激物 前進或是遠離它。

Wanting is more like your toddler, following you around,

「想要」就像是你的 學步兒童，到處跟著你，

asking for another cookie.

跟你再要一片餅干。

So wanting and liking are related.

所以，想要和喜歡是有關聯的。

They are not identical.

它們不完全相同。

And the third system is learning.

第三個系統是學習。

Learning is Pavlov's dogs.

學習是巴夫洛夫的狗。

You remember Pavlov?

你們記得巴夫洛夫嗎？

He makes dogs salivate in response to a bell.

他讓狗在聽到鈴聲時就會流口水。

It's easy, you give a dog food, salivates automatically,

這很容易，你把給狗食物， 牠自動會流口水，

and you ring a bell.

同時你也搖鈴。

Food, salivate, bell.

食物，流口水，鈴。

Food, bell, salivate.

食物，鈴，流口水。

Bell, salivate.

鈴，流口水。

Does that salivation mean that the dog wants to eat the bell?

流口水表示狗想要吃鈴嗎？

Does it mean that the dog finds the bell delicious?

流口水表示狗覺得鈴很可口嗎？

No.

不是。

What Pavlov did was make the bell food-related.

巴夫洛夫所做的， 是讓鈴和食物具有相關性。

When we see this separateness of wanting, liking and learning,

當我們能夠把想要、 喜歡、學習分開來看，

this is where we find an explanatory framework

我們就能夠找到解釋性的架構，

for understanding what researchers call arousal nonconcordance.

用來了解研究者所謂的 「性興奮不一致」。

Nonconcordance, very simply,

不一致，簡單來說，

is when there is a lack of predictive relationship

就是沒有預測關係存在於

between your physiological response, like salivation,

你的生理反應，比如流口水，

and your subjective experience of pleasure and desire.

和你對於享樂及慾望的 主觀體驗之間。

That happens in every emotional and motivational system that we have,

我們所有的情緒和動機系統 都會發生這種狀況，

including sex.

包括：性。

Research over the last 30 years

過去三十年間的研究

has found that genital blood flow can increase

發現對於性相關的刺激，

in response to sex-related stimuli

人的反應是生殖器血流增加，

even if those sex-related stimuli are not also associated

即使那些性相關的刺激並沒有

和想要及喜歡的主觀體驗有關聯。

with the subjective experience of wanting and liking.

In fact, the predictive relationship

事實上，生殖器反應

between genital response and subjective experience

和主觀體驗之間的預測關係

is between 10 and 50 percent.

大約在 10% 到 50% 之間。

Which is an enormous range.

這個範圍很大。

You just can't predict necessarily

你就是無法肯定預測出

how a person feels about that sex-related stimulus

一個人對於性相關刺激的感覺如何，

just by looking at their genital blood flow.

無法只透從他們的生殖器血流判斷。

When I explained this to my husband, he gave me the best possible example.

當我向我先生解釋這一點時， 他給了我最好的例子。

He was like,

他類似這樣說：

"So, that could explain this one time, when I was in high school, I ...

「所以，這就能解釋有一次 我在高中的時候，我……

I got an erection in response to the phrase 'doughnut hole.'"

我對『油炸圈餅洞』 這個詞會有勃起反應。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Did he want to have sex with the doughnut?

他想要和油炸圈餅性交嗎？

No.

不。

He was a teenage boy flooded with testosterone,

他是個睪丸素豐富的青少年，

which makes everything a little bit sex-related.

這就會讓一切都和性有點關聯。

And it can go in both directions.

且這可能是雙向的。

A person with a penis may struggle to get an erection one evening,

有老二的人可能會有天晚上 突然遇到勃起困難，

and then wake up the very next morning with an erection,

隔天卻一大早起床就勃起了，

when it's nothing but a hassle.

那時勃起實在沒用，只會造成麻煩。

I got a phone call from a 30-something friend, a woman,

有位三十多歲的女性朋友 打電話給我，

she said, "So, my partner and I were in the middle of doing some things

她說：「我和我的另一半 正在做一些事，

and I was like, 'I want you right now.'

我說：『我現在就想要你。』

And he said, 'No, you're still dry, you're just being nice.'

他說：『不，你還是乾的， 你只是在扮好人而已。』

And I was so ready.

我已經準備得非常好了。

So what's the matter, is it hormonal, should I talk to a doctor,

所以，怎麼回事？ 是賀爾蒙？我要看醫生嗎？

發生了什麼事？」

what's going on?"

Answer?

答案？

那就是性興奮不一致。

It's arousal nonconcordance.

若你有感覺到不必要的痛苦， 去找醫療機構。

If you're experiencing unwanted pain, talk to a medical provider.

Otherwise -- arousal nonconcordance.

否則就是性興奮不一致。

Your genital behavior just doesn't necessarily predict

你的生殖器行為不見得能預測出

your subjective experience of liking and wanting.

你對於「喜歡」和「想要」的主觀體驗。

Another friend, back in college,

在大學的時候，另一個朋友

told me about her first experiences of power play in a sexual relationship.

告訴我她在性關係中 初次體驗到權力遊戲。

She told me that her partner tied her up

她告訴我，她的另一半把她綁起來，

with her arms over her head like this, she's standing up and he positions her

把她的手綁在頭上，像這樣， 她站立著，他調整好她的姿勢，

她跨坐在桿子上，桿子向上 抵著她的陰蒂，像這樣。

so she's straddling a bar, presses up against her clitoris, like this.

我的朋友站在那裡， 那傢伙就離開了。

So there's my friend, standing there, and the guy leaves.

It's a power play.

那就是權力遊戲。

Leaves her alone.

她被單獨留下。

So there's my friend, and she goes,

所以，我朋友在那裡，她說：

"I'm bored."

「我好無聊。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And the guy comes back and she says, "I am bored."

那傢伙回來了， 她說：「我好無聊。」

And he looks at her and he looks at the bar

他看著她，他看著那根桿子，

and he says, "Then why are you wet?"

他說：「那你為什麼沒濕？」

Why was she wet?

為什麼她會濕？

Is it sex-related to have pressure directly against your clitoris?

把壓力直接加在你的陰蒂上， 是和性有關聯的動作嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Does that tell him whether she wants or likes what's happening?

那是否能幫他判斷她是否 想要或喜歡當時發生的事？

Nope.

不能。

What does tell him whether she wants or likes what's happening?

那要如何知道她是否 想要或喜歡當時發生的事？

She does!

問她！

She recognized and articulated what she wanted and liked.

她知道且能清楚表達 她想要和喜歡什麼。

All he had to do was listen to her words.

他只需要傾聽她說的話即可。

My friend on the phone -- what's the solution?

跟我通電話的朋友—— 解決方案是什麼？

You tell your partner, "Listen to your words."

你告訴你的另一半： 「傾聽你說的話。」

Also, buy some lube.

此外，買些潤滑油。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Applause for lube, absolutely.

為潤滑油掌聲，當然啦。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Everyone, everywhere.

任何地方任何人都是如此。

But I want to tell you a darker listen-to-her-words story.

但我想告訴各位一個更黑暗的 「傾聽她的話」故事。

This one comes from a note that a student sent me

這個故事來自一名學生 寫給我的字條，

after I gave a lecture about arousal nonconcordance.

這是在我教完關於 性興奮不一致的課之後。

She was with a partner, a new partner, glad to be doing things,

她和一個人在一起，剛開始交往， 很高興能一起做些事，

and they reached a point

他們的關係到了

where that was as far as she was interested in going

她已經不想要再進一步的程度，

所以她說「不」。

and so she said no.

And the partner said, "No, you're wet, you're so ready, don't be shy."

而另一半說：「不，你濕了， 那表示你準備好了，別害羞。」

Shy?

害羞？

As if it hadn't taken all the courage and confidence she had

說得好像她不需要 用盡所有勇氣和信心

to say no to someone she liked.

來拒絕她喜歡的人。

Whose feelings she did not want to hurt.

她並不想要傷害他的感受。

But she said it again.

但她又再說了一次。

She said no.

她說不。

Did he listen to her words?

他有傾聽她說的話嗎？

In the age of Me Too and Time's Up, people ask me,

在「我也是」和「時間到」的時代 （反性騷擾運動），我會被問到：

"How do I even know what my partner wants and likes?

「我要如何知道我的另一半 想要和喜歡什麼？

Is all consent to be verbal and contractual now?"

現在所有的同意都是 口頭的、契約性質的嗎？

There are times when consent is ambiguous

有些時候，同意是很模糊的，

and we need a large-scale cultural conversation about that.

我們需要對此進行 大規模的文化對談。

But can we make sure we're noticing how clear consent is

但我們是否能確定， 如果我們消除了這項迷思，

就能注意到同意有多清楚？

if we eliminate this myth?

In every example I've described so far,

在我目前所描述的每個例子中，

one partner recognized and articulated what they wanted and liked:

其中一半知道且明確表達 他們想要和喜歡什麼：

"I want you right now."

「我現在就想要你。」

"No."

「不。」

And their partner told them they were wrong.

而他們的另一半 告訴他們：他們錯了。

It's gaslighting.

這是點煤燈。

Profound and degrading.

很深奧且把人降格。

You say you feel one way,

你說你的感覺是這樣，

but your body proves that you feel something else.

但你的身體卻證明 你的感覺不是那樣的。

And we only do this around sexuality,

我們只有在扯到性行為時才這麼做，

because arousal nonconcordance

因為性興奮不一致的發生

happens with every emotional and motivational system we have.

和我們所有的情緒 和動機系統都有關。

If my mouth waters when I bite into a wormy apple,

如果當我咬下有蟲的蘋果時， 我的嘴巴流口水了，

does anybody say to me,

會不會有人對我說：

"You said no, but your body said yes?"

「你說不要，但你的身體說要？」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And it's not only our partners who get it wrong.

且不只是我們的另一半會誤解。

The National Judicial Education Program published a document

國家司法教育計畫出版了一份文件，

called "Judges Tell: What I Wish I Had Known Before I Presided

題名為「法官判定：我希望 在我接管一個成人受害者

in a Case of an Adult Victim of Sexual Assault."

遭受性侵害案件之前就能知道的事」。

Number 13:

第 13 條例：

On occasion, the victim, female or male, may experience a physical response,

「偶爾，受害者，不論男女， 有可能會發生身體反應，

but this is not a sexual response in the sense of desire or mutuality."

但這並不是出於慾望 或是相互關係的性反應。」

This brings me one step closer into the darkness,

這就讓我向黑暗又再靠近了一步，

and then I promise we will find our way into the light.

接著，我保證我們會找到 通往光明的路。

I'm thinking of a recent court case involving multiple instances

我在想最近的一個法庭案件， 是關於多次發生

of non-consensual sexual contact.

未受到同意的性接觸。

Imagine you're on the jury

想像你是陪審團，

and you learn that the victim had orgasms.

你得知受害者有高潮。

Does it change how your gut responds to the case?

那是否會改變你對於 這個案件的本能反應？

Let me remind you, orgasm is physiological;

讓我提醒各位，高潮是生理的；

it is a spontaneous, involuntary release of tension,

它是一種自發性、 非自願性的壓力釋放，

generated in response to sex-related stimuli.

會因為性相關的刺激而產生。

But the perpetrator’s lawyer made sure the jury knew about those orgasms

但行兇者的律師確保陪審團 知道這些高潮的發生，

because he thought the orgasms could be construed as consent.

因為他認為高潮可以被推斷為同意。

I will also add that this was a child being abused by an adult in the family.

我還要補充一點，這個案件 是孩童被家庭中的成人給虐待。

I invite you to breathe.

我想請各位呼吸。

That kind of story can give a person all kind of feelings,

那種故事可能會給人各種感受，

from rage to shame to confused arousal

從憤怒，到羞恥， 到讓人困惑的性興奮，

because it is sex-related,

因為它和性有關，

even though it is appalling.

即便它是很駭人的事件。

But even though I know it's difficult

但即使我知道， 在一個都是陌生人的房間中，

to sit with those feelings in a room full of strangers,

那些感覺會讓人坐立難安，

if we can find our way through all of the messy feelings,

如果我們能找到一條路 穿過所有這些混亂的感受，

I believe we will find our way to the light of compassion

我相信我們能找到通往光的路，

for that child,

同情那個孩子，

whose relationship with her body was damaged

她和她身體之間的關係受到了損害，

by an adult whose job it was to protect it.

兇手正是應該要保護它的成人。

And we'll find hope that there was a trustworthy adult

我們會找到希望， 希望能有個值得相信的成人，

who could say, "Genital response

能跳出來說：「生殖器反應

just means it was a sex-related stimulus; doesn't mean it was wanted or liked,

只意味著這是和性相關的刺激； 並不表示被害人想要或喜歡它，

certainly doesn't mean it was consented to.

肯定也不表示被害人同意。」

(Applause)

（掌聲）

That compassion and that hope are why I travel all over,

那種同情及那種希望， 就是為什麼我會四處旅行

talking about this to anyone who will listen.

跟任何願意傾聽的人談論這個議題。

I can see it helping people, even as I say the words.

我可以看到它能協助人， 即便我只是說出來，

I invite you to say the words.

我想請各位說出來。

You don't have to say "clitoris" in front of 1000 strangers.

你們不需要在一千個陌生人 面前說「陰蒂」。

But do have one brave conversation.

但請務必要做勇敢的對談。

Tell this to someone you know who has experienced sexual violence --

把這項資訊告訴你所認識 經歷過性暴力的人——

you definitely know someone.

你一定認識這樣的人。

In the US it's one in three women.

在美國，三個女人中就有一個。

One in six men.

六個男人中就有一個。

Almost half of transgender folks.

變性人則是近半。

Say "Genital response means it's a sex-related stimulus.

說「生殖器反應意味著 這是和性相關的刺激。

It doesn't mean it was wanted or liked."

並不表示當事人想要或喜歡它。」

Say it to a judge you know or a lawyer you know,

把這資訊告訴你認識的法官或律師，

or a cop or anyone who might sit on a jury in a sexual assault case.

或警察，或有可能會在性侵案件中 坐在陪審團席上的任何人。

Say "Some people think that your body doesn't respond

說：「有些人認為， 若你不想要或不喜歡

if you don't want or like what's happening,

正在發生的事情， 你的身體就不會有反應，

if only that were true.

但願那是真的。

Instead, arousal nonconcordance.

其實，是性興奮不一致。

Say this to the confused teenager in your life

把這項資訊告訴你生活中 感到困惑的青少年少女，

who is just trying to figure out what, even, what?

他們都還在試圖搞清楚狀況。

Say, if you bite this moldy fruit and your mouth waters,

如果你咬下這發霉的水果， 而你的嘴巴流口水了，

nobody would say to you,

沒有人會對你說：

"Well, you just don't want to admit how much you like it."

「嗯，你只是不想要承認 你有多喜歡它。」

Same goes for down below, arousal nonconcordance.

下體也是一樣的，性興奮不一致。

Say it to your partner.

把它告訴你的另一半。

My genitals do not tell you what I want or like.

我的生殖器不會告訴你 我想要或喜歡什麼。

I do.

我才會告訴你。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

The roots of this myth are deep

這項迷思的根源很深，

and they are entangled with some very dark forces in our culture.

且與我們文化中一些 非常黑暗的力量糾結在一起。

But with every brave conversation we have,

但每當我們能進行勇敢的對談，

we make the world that little bit better, a little simpler

我們就能為困惑的 青少年男女，把世界變得

for the confused teenager.

更好一點，更簡單一點。

A little easier for your friend on the phone, worried that she's broken.

讓你那位打電話給你， 擔心自己心碎的朋友，能好過一點。

A little easier and safer

也能讓生存者更好過、更安全一點，

for the survivors, one in three women.

那是三個女人中就有一個。

One in six men.

六個男人中就有一個。

Half of trans folks.

變性人中一半的人。

Me too.

我也是。

So for every brave conversation you have,

所以，對於你所進行的 每一次勇敢對談，

thank you.

我謝謝你。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Thank you.

謝謝大家。

Thanks.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Helen Walters: Emily, come up here.

海倫 · 華特斯：艾蜜莉，請上來。

Thank you so much.

非常謝謝你。

I know that you do this all the time,

我知道你常在做這類演說，

and yet, still, I'm so grateful to you for having the courage

但我仍然很感激你能有勇氣

to come and talk about that on this stage.

來這裡上台，並談論那個主題。

It really took a lot and we're very grateful to you.

那真的很了不起，我們很感謝你。

So thank you.

所以，謝謝你。

Emily Nagoski: I am grateful to be here.

艾蜜莉 · 納高斯基： 我很榮幸來這裡。

HW: So in your regular day job,

海：在你平常白天的工作中，

I imagine, as you put at the top of the talk,

如同你在這場演說一開頭說的，

you get asked a lot of questions.

我想像你會被問到很多問題。

But what's the one question that you get asked all the time

但哪個問題是你總是會被問到的？

that you can share with everyone here so you don't have to answer it 1000 times

你可以在這裡和大家分享， 你就不用在接下來的一週

throughout the rest of the week?

再回答一千次。

EN: The question I get asked most often

艾：我最常被問的問題

is actually the question underneath pretty much all the other questions,

其實是幾乎所有 其他問題背後的問題，

so, can you get addicted to your vibrator,

你有可能對按摩器上癮嗎？

please help me with my erectile dysfunction?

我有勃起功能障礙，請幫幫我？

Underneath every question is actually the question, "Am I normal?"

在每個問題的背後，其實都是 一個問題：「我正常嗎？」

To which my answer in my mind is,

對這個問題，我心中的答案是，

what even is normal and why is that what you want your sexuality to be?

正常是什麼？你為什麼會 希望你的性是正常的？

Why do we only want to be normal around sexuality?

為什麼在性方面我們只想要正常？

Don't we want to be extraordinary?

我們不想要不凡嗎？

Like, do you just want normal sex or do you want awesome sex in your life?

比如，你的人生中只想要 正常的性愛？還是很棒的性愛？

I think, though, there's a lot of fear

不過，我想，在性方面，

around being too different sexually.

太與眾不同會帶來恐懼。

When people are asking me,

當有人問我：

"Is this thing I'm experiencing normal,"

「我經歷的這個狀況正常嗎？」

what they're actually asking me is, "Do I belong?"

他們其實是在問我： 「我屬於哪兒嗎？」

Do I belong in this relationship,

我屬於這段關係嗎？

do I belong in this community of people,

我屬於這個人類社群嗎？

do I belong on earth as a sexual person?

就性方面，我屬於地球嗎？

To which the answer is always a resounding yes.

這些問題的答案 永遠都是響亮的「是」。

The only barrier there is, the only limit there is, there are two:

只有兩項障礙或是限制：

one, if you're experiencing unwanted sexual pain,

第一，如果你感受到 不想要的性痛苦，

talk to a medical provider.

去找醫療機構談談。

And two: As along as everybody involved is free and glad to be there,

第二：只要相關涉入的人 都很自由且高興能在場，

and free to leave whenever they want to,

且想要離開的時候就能離開，

you're allowed to do anything that you want to.

你就可以做任何你想要做的事。

There is no script, there is no box you have to fit into,

沒有腳本，沒有你需要配合的標準，

you're allowed, as long as there is consent and no unwanted pain,

只要有同意，沒有不想要的痛苦，

you're totally free to do whatever you want.

你就可以完全自由地 去做你想要做的。

HW: Amazing. Thank you so much.

海：很棒。非常謝謝你。

EN: Thank you.

艾：謝謝你。

HW: Thank you, you're incredible.

海：謝謝你，你棒極了。

(Applause)

（掌聲）