A mother and son united by love and art | Deborah Willis and Hank Willis Thomas

Prevodilac: Sonja Rajkovic Lektor: Ivana Krivokuća

Hank Willis Thomas: I'm Deb's son.

Henk Vilis Tomas: Ja sam Debin sin.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Deborah Willis: And I'm Hank's mom.

Debora Vilis: A ja sam Henkova mama.

HWT: We've said that so many times,

HVT: Toliko puta smo to rekli,

we've made a piece about it.

da smo napravili delo od toga.

It's called "Sometimes I See Myself In You,"

Zove se „Ponekad vidim sebe u tebi“

and it speaks to the symbiotic relationship

i ono govori o simbiotičkoj vezi

that we've developed over the years through our life and work.

koju smo razvili tokom godina kroz naš život i rad.

And really, it's because everywhere we go,

Zaista, to je zato što gde god idemo

together or apart,

zajedno ili odvojeno,

mi nosimo ova preuzeta imena.

we carry these monikers.

I've been following in my mother's footsteps

Ja sam krenuo majčinim stopama

još pre nego što sam se rodio

since before I was even born

and haven't figured out how to stop.

i nisam otkrio kako da se zaustavim.

And as I get older, it does get harder.

A kako starim, postaje teže.

No seriously, it gets harder.

Ne stvarno, postaje teže.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

My mother's taught me many things, though,

Ipak, moja majka me je naučila mnogo čemu,

most of all that love overrules.

a pre svega da ljubav pobeđuje.

She's taught me that love

Naučila me da je ljubav

is an action,

delo, a ne osećanje.

not a feeling.

Love is a way of being, it's a way of doing,

Ljubav je način bivstvovanja, način postupanja.

it's a way of listening and it's a way of seeing.

Ona je način slušanja, i ona je način gledanja.

DW: And also, the idea about love,

DV: I takođe, ideja o ljubavi,

photographers,

fotografi...

they're looking for love when they make photographs.

oni traže ljubav kada prave fotografije.

They're looking and looking and finding love.

Oni traže, traže i pronalaze ljubav.

Growing up in North Philadelphia,

Odrastajući u Severnoj Filadelfiji,

I was surrounded by people in my family and friends

bila sam okružena ljudima u porodici i prijateljima

who made photographs

koji su pravili fotografije

and used the family camera as a way of telling a story about life,

i koristili porodični fotoaparat kao sredstvo da se ispriča priča o životu,

about life of joy,

o životu radosti,

about what it meant to become a family in North Philadelphia.

o tome šta znači postati porodica u Severnoj Filadelfiji.

So I spent most of my life searching for pictures

Tako da sam provela veći deo svog života tražeći slike koje prikazuju ideje

that reflect on ideas about black love, black joy

o crnačkoj ljubavi, crnačkoj radosti

and about family life.

i o porodičnom životu.

So it's really important to think about the action of love overrules as a verb.

Tako da je veoma važno da mislimo o činu ljubavi koja pobeđuje kao o glagolu.

HWT: Sometimes I wonder if the love of looking is genetic,

HVT: Ponekad se pitam da li je ljubav gledanja genetska,

because, like my mother,

jer, kao i moja majka,

I've loved photographs since before I can even remember.

ja sam voleo fotografije od kad znam za sebe.

I think sometimes that -- after my mother and her mother --

Ponekad pomislim, posle moje majke i njene majke,

that photography and photographs were my first love.

da su fotografija i slike bile moje prve ljubavi.

No offense to my father,

Bez uvrede mom ocu,

but that's what you get for calling me a "ham"

ali to je ono što dobiješ kad me zoveš „šunka“ gde god ideš.

wherever you go.

I remember whenever I'd go to my grandmother's house,

Sećam se da, kad god sam išao u kuću moje bake,

she would hide all the photo albums

ona bi sakrila sve foto albume

because she was afraid of me asking,

iz straha da ću je pitati: „A ko je ovo na ovoj slici?“

"Well, who is that in that picture?"

and "Who are they to you and who are they to me,

i „Ko su oni tebi, a ko su oni meni,

i koliko si godina imala kad je ovo uslikano?

and how old were you when that picture was taken?

Koliko sam ja imao kada je uslikano?

How old was I when that picture was taken?

I zašto su crno-bele?

And why were they in black and white?

Da li je svet bio crno-beli pre nego što sam se ja rodio?“

Was the world in black and white before I was born?"

DW: Well, that's interesting,

DV: Pa, to je interesantno,

just to think about the world in black and white.

da mislimo o svetu kao crno-belom.

Odrasla sam u kozmetičkom salonu u Severnoj Filadelfiji,

I grew up in a beauty shop in North Philadelphia,

kozmetičkom salonu moje mame, gledajući „Eboni magazin“,

my mom's beauty shop, looking at "Ebony Magazine,"

found images that told stories that were often not in the daily news,

pronalazeći slike koje su pričale priče koje nisu često bile u dnevnim vestima,

but in the family album.

već u porodičnom albumu.

I wanted the family album to be energetic for me,

Želela sam da porodični album bude energičan za mene,

a way of telling stories,

način da se ispričaju priče.

and one day I happened upon a book in the Philadelphia Public Library

Jednog dana naišla sam na knjigu u filadelfijskoj državnoj biblioteci

called "The Sweet Flypaper of Life" by Roy DeCarava and Langston Hughes.

koja se zvala „Slatka zamka života“ od Roja Dekarave i Lengstona Hjuza.

I think what attracted me as a seven-year-old,

Mislim da me je kao sedmogodišnjakinju privukao naslov, zamka i slatka,

the title, flypaper and sweet,

but to think about that as a seven-year-old,

ali razmišljati o tome sa sedam godina...

I looked at the beautiful images that Roy DeCarava made

Gledala sam prelepe slike koje je Roj Dekarava napravio

and then looked at ways that I could tell a story about life.

i onda pronalazila načine kako bih mogla da ispričam priču života.

And looking for me is the act that basically changed my life.

Posmatranje je za mene čin koji mi je suštinski promenio život.

HWT: My friend Chris Johnson told me that every photographer,

HVT: Moj prijatelj Kris Džonson mi je rekao da svaki fotograf,

every artist, is essentially trying to answer one question,

svaki umetnik, u suštini, pokušava da dȃ odgovor na jedno pitanje,

and I think your question might have been,

i mislim da je tvoje pitanje možda bilo:

"Why doesn't the rest of the world see how beautiful we are,

„Zašto ostatak sveta ne vidi koliko smo lepi,

and what can I do to help them see our community the way I do?"

i šta mogu da uradim da pomognem

da vide našu zajednicu onako kako je ja vidim?“

DW: While studying in art school --

DV: Dok sam išla u umetničku školu -

verovatno je tačno -

it's probably true --

I had a male professor who told me that I was taking up a good man's space.

imala sam profesora koji mi je rekao da zauzimam mesto dobrom muškarcu.

He tried to stifle my dream of becoming a photographer.

Hteo je da uguši moj san da postanem fotograf.

He attempted to shame me in a class full of male photographers.

Pokušao je da me postidi u razredu punom muških fotografa.

He told me I was out of place and out of order as a woman,

Rekao je da meni kao ženi nije tu mesto,

and he went on to say that all you could and would do

i nastavio je rekavši da sve što mogu i što ću da uradim je da rodim bebu

was to have a baby when a good man could have had your seat in this class.

dok bi na mom mestu u razredu mogao da sedi neki dobar muškarac.

I was shocked into silence into that experience.

Zanemela sam od ovog iskustva.

But I had my camera, and I was determined to prove to him

Ali sam imala svoj fotoaparat i bila sam rešena da mu dokažem

that I was worthy for a seat in that class.

da sam vredna mesta u tom razredu.

But in retrospect, I asked myself: "Why did I need to prove it to him?"

Ali gledajući unazad, pitam se: „Zašto sam imala potrebu da mu dokazujem?“

You know, I had my camera, and I knew I needed to prove to myself

Znate, imala sam moj fotoaparat, i znala sam da treba da dokažem sebi

that I would make a difference in photography.

da ću učiniti nešto u fotografiji.

I love photography, and no one is going to stop me from making images.

Obožavam fotografiju i niko me neće zaustaviti u tome da stvaram slike.

HWT: But that's when I came in.

HVT: Ali onda ja ulazim u priču.

DW: Yeah, that year I graduated, I got pregnant.

DV: Da, te godine kada sam diplomirala, ostala sam u drugom stanju.

Yep, he was right.

Da, bio je u pravu.

And I had you,

I dobila sam tebe,

and I shook off that sexist language that he used against me

i odbacila sam taj seksistički govor koji je on koristio protiv mene,

and picked up my camera and made photographs daily,

uzela sam svoj fotoaparat i pravila fotografije svakodnevno,

and made photographs of my pregnant belly as I prepared for graduate school.

pravila fotografije mog trudničkog stomaka dok sam se spremala za postdiplomske.

But I thought about also that black photographers were missing

Ali sam takođe mislila i o tome kako crnih fotografa nema

from the history books of photography,

u knjigama o istoriji fotografije,

and I was looking for ways to tell a story.

i tražila sam načine da ispričam priču.

And I ran across Gordon Parks' book "A Choice of Weapons,"

Naišla sam na knjigu Gordona Parksa, „Izbor oružja“, njegovu autobiografiju.

which was his autobiography.

I began photographing and making images,

Počela sam da fotografišem i pravim slike,

and I tucked away that contact sheet that I made of my pregnant belly,

umetnula sam tu rolnu koju sam napravila sa mojim trudničkim stomakom,

and then you inspired me to create a new piece,

i onda si me ti inspirisao da stvorim novo delo,

a piece that said, "A woman taking a place from a good man,"

delo koje je govorilo: „Žena koja zauzima mesto dobrom muškarcu“,

"You took the space from a good man,"

„Ti si zauzela mesto dobrom muškarcu“,

and then I used that language and reversed it and said,

Onda sam iskoristila taj govor, preokrenula ga i rekla,

"I made a space for a good man, you."

„Napravila sam mesta za dobrog muškarca. Za tebe.“

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

HWT: Thanks, ma.

HVT: Hvala, mama.

(Aplauz)

Kakva majka, takav sin.

Like mother, like son.

I grew up in a house full of photographs.

Ja sam odrastao u kući punoj fotografija.

They were everywhere, and my mother would turn the kitchen into a darkroom.

Bilo ih je svuda, i moja majka bi pretvorila kuhinju u mračnu komoru.

And there weren't just pictures that she took

Tu nije bilo samo slika koje je ona pravila

i slika članova porodice,

and pictures of family members.

već je na zidovima bilo i slika ljudi koje nismo poznavali,

But there were pictures on the wall of and by people that we didn't know,

men and women that we didn't know.

muškaraca i žena koje nismo poznavali.

Thanks, ma.

Hvala, mama.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I have my own timing.

Ja imam svoj tajming.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Did you see her poke me?

Da li ste videli kako me je gurnula?

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Puppet strings.

Marioneta.

(Smeh)

Odrastao sam u kući punoj fotografija.

I grew up in a house full of photographs.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

But they weren't just pictures of men and women that we knew,

Ali one nisu bile samo slike muškaraca i žena koje smo poznavali,

but pictures of people that I didn't know,

već i slike ljudi koje nisam znao,

Pretty much, it was pretty clear from what I learned in school,

Zapravo, bilo je prilično jasno po onome što sam učio u školi

that the rest of the world didn't either.

da ih ni ostatak sveta nije znao.

And it took me a long time to figure out what she was up to,

Trebalo mi je dosta vremena da shvatim šta to ona sprema,

but after a while, I figured it out.

ali nakon nekog vremena, shvatio sam.

When I was nine years old, she published this book,

Kada sam imao devet godina, objavila je knjigu

"Black Photographers, 1840-1940: A Bio-Bibliography."

„Crni fotografi, 1840-1940: Bio-bibliografija“.

And it's astounding to me to consider

Zapanjuje me kad pomislim

that in 1840, African Americans were making photographs.

da su 1840. godine Afroamerikanci pravili fotografije.

What does it mean for us to think

Šta to za nas znači kada pomislimo

that at a time that was two, three decades before the end of slavery,

da su dve, tri decenije pre završetka ropstva

that people were learning how to read,

ljudi učili da čitaju,

they had to learn how to do math,

morali su da nauče matematiku,

they had to be on the cutting edge of science and technology,

morali su da budu u toku sa razvojem nauke i tehnologije,

to do math, physics and chemistry just to make a single photograph.

da se bave matematikom, fizikom i hemijom da bi stvorili jednu jedinu fotografiju.

And what compelled them to do that if not love?

A šta ih je navelo da učine to ako nije ljubav?

Well, that book led her to her next book, "Black Photographers, 1940-1988,"

Ta knjiga je vodila njenoj drugoj knjizi, „Crni fotografi, 1940-1988“,

and that book led to another book, and another book, and another book,

a ta knjiga je vodila još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi,

and another book, and another book,

i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi,

and another book, and another book,

i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi,

and another book, and another book, and another book, and another book,

i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi,

and another book, and another book, and another book, and another book,

i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi,

and another book, and another book, and another.

i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj knjizi, i još jednoj.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And throughout my life,

Tokom celog mog života,

she's edited and published dozens of books

uređivala je i objavljivala na desetine knjiga

and curated numerous exhibitions on every continent,

i organizovala bezbroj izložbi na svakom kontinentu.

not all about black photographers but all inspired by the curiosity

Nisu sve bile o crnim fotografima, ali su sve bile inspirisane znatiželjom

of a little black girl from North Philadelphia.

male crne devojčice iz Severne Filadelfije.

DW: What I found is that black photographers had stories to tell,

DV: Ono što sam otkrila je da su crni fotografi

imali priče da ispričaju, i trebalo je da ih slušamo.

and we needed to listen.

And then I found and I discovered

A onda sam pronašla i otkrila crne fotografe

black photographers like Augustus Washington,

kao što je Ogastus Vašington,

who made these beautiful daguerreotypes

koji je pravio prelepe dagerotipije

of the McGill family in the early 1840s and '50s.

porodice Mekgil ranih 1840-ih i 50-ih godina.

Njihove priče su nekako bile drugačije, priče crnih fotografa,

Their stories tended to be different, black photographers,

and they had a different narrative about black life during slavery,

i imale su drugačiji narativ o životu crnaca tokom ropstva,

but it was also about family life, beauty and telling stories about community.

ali su bile i o porodičnom životu, lepoti, i pričale su priče o zajednici.

I didn't know how to link the stories,

Nisam znala kako da ih povežem,

but I knew that teachers needed to know this story.

ali sam znala da je potrebno da nastavnici znaju njihove priče.

HWT: So I think I was my mother's first student.

HVT: Mislim da sam bio majčin prvi učenik.

Unwillingly and unwittingly -- puppet strings --

Nevoljno i nesvesno - marioneta -

I decided to pick up a camera,

odlučio sam da uzmem fotoaparat,

and thought that I should make my own pictures

i smatrao sam da treba da napravim svoje slike

about the then and now and the now and then.

o nekada i sada, i o sada i nekada.

I thought about how I could use photography

Razmišljao sam o tome kako mogu da upotrebim fotografiju

to talk about how what's going on outside of the frame of the camera

da ispričam o tome kako ono što se dešava izvan okvira fotografije

can affect what we see inside.

može da utiče na ono što vidimo unutar okvira.

The truth is always in the hands of the actual image maker

Istina je uvek u rukama onoga ko pravi slike,

and it's up to us to really consider what's being cut out.

a na nama je da razmotrimo šta je izostavljeno.

Pomislio sam da mogu da iskoristim njeno istraživanje

I thought I could use her research as a jumping-off point

kao početnu tačku za ono što vidim u društvu

of things that I was seeing in society

and I wanted to start to think about how I could use historical images

i počeo sam da razmišljam o tome kako da iskoristim istorijske slike

to talk about the past being present

da pričam o prošlosti koja je prisutna

and think about ways that we can speak

i da pronađem načine da se obratimo

to the perennial struggle for human rights and equal rights

višegodišnjoj borbi za ljudska prava i ravnopravnost,

through my appropriation of photographs

kroz moje iskazivanje fotografija

in the form of sculpture, video,

u formi skulpture, videa, instalacija i slika.

installation and paintings.

But through it all, one piece has affected me the most.

Ali prolazeći kroz sve to, jedno delo je uticalo na mene najviše.

It continues to nourish me.

I nastavlja da me ispunjava.

It's based off of this photograph by Ernest Withers,

Zasnovano je na ovoj fotografiji Ernesta Vidersa,

who took this picture in 1968

koji je napravio tu fotografiju 1968. godine

at the Memphis Sanitation Workers March

na protestu zdravstvenih radnika u Memfisu,

of men and women standing collectively to affirm their humanity.

sliku muškaraca i žena koji stoje zajedno kako bi potvrdili svoju ljudskost.

They were holding signs that said "I am a man,"

Držali su znakove na kojima je pisalo „Ja sam čovek“.

and I found that astounding, because the phrase I grew up with

To me je zapanjilo, jer fraza sa kojom sam ja odrastao

wasn't "I am a man," it was "I am the man,"

nije bila „Ja sam čovek“ već je bila „Ja sam veliki čovek“.

and I was amazed at how it went from this collective statement during segregation

Bio sam oduševeljen time kako je prerasla od kolektivne izjave tokom segregacije

to this seemingly selfish statement after integration.

u tu naizgled sebičnu izjavu nakon integracije.

And I wanted to ponder that,

Hteo sam da promislim malo o tome,

so I decided to remix that text in as many ways as I could think of,

i odlučio sam da izmešam taj tekst na koliko god načina je moguće.

and I like to think of the top line as a timeline of American history,

Volim da zamislim prvi red kao vremenski prikaz američke istorije,

and the last line as a poem,

a poslednji red kao pesmu,

and it says,

i ona kaže:

"I am the man. Who's the man. You the man. What a man.

„Ja sam čovek. Ko je čovek. Ti si čovek. Kakav čovek.

I am man. I am many. I am, am I.

Ja sam čovek. Ja sam mnogi. Ja sam, da li sam.

I am, I am. I am, Amen.

Ja sam, ja sam. Ja sam, amin.“

DW: Wow, so fascinating.

DV: Uh, tako fascinantno.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

But what we learn from this experience

Ali ono što smo naučili iz ovog iskustva

is the most powerful two words in the English language is, "I am."

je da su dve najmoćnije reči u engleskom jeziku „ja sam“.

And we each have the capacity to love.

I kako svi imamo sposobnost da volimo.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)