A mother and son united by love and art | Deborah Willis and Hank Willis Thomas

42,361 views ・ 2018-01-15

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00:12
Hank Willis Thomas: I'm Deb's son.
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(Laughter)
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Deborah Willis: And I'm Hank's mom.
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HWT: We've said that so many times,
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we've made a piece about it.
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It's called "Sometimes I See Myself In You,"
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and it speaks to the symbiotic relationship
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that we've developed over the years through our life and work.
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And really, it's because everywhere we go,
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together or apart,
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we carry these monikers.
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I've been following in my mother's footsteps
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since before I was even born
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and haven't figured out how to stop.
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And as I get older, it does get harder.
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No seriously, it gets harder.
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(Laughter)
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My mother's taught me many things, though,
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most of all that love overrules.
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She's taught me that love
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is an action,
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not a feeling.
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Love is a way of being, it's a way of doing,
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it's a way of listening and it's a way of seeing.
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DW: And also, the idea about love,
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photographers,
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they're looking for love when they make photographs.
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They're looking and looking and finding love.
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Growing up in North Philadelphia,
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I was surrounded by people in my family and friends
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who made photographs
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and used the family camera as a way of telling a story about life,
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about life of joy,
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about what it meant to become a family in North Philadelphia.
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So I spent most of my life searching for pictures
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that reflect on ideas about black love, black joy
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and about family life.
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So it's really important to think about the action of love overrules as a verb.
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HWT: Sometimes I wonder if the love of looking is genetic,
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because, like my mother,
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I've loved photographs since before I can even remember.
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I think sometimes that -- after my mother and her mother --
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that photography and photographs were my first love.
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No offense to my father,
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but that's what you get for calling me a "ham"
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wherever you go.
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I remember whenever I'd go to my grandmother's house,
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she would hide all the photo albums
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because she was afraid of me asking,
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"Well, who is that in that picture?"
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and "Who are they to you and who are they to me,
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and how old were you when that picture was taken?
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How old was I when that picture was taken?
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And why were they in black and white?
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Was the world in black and white before I was born?"
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DW: Well, that's interesting,
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just to think about the world in black and white.
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I grew up in a beauty shop in North Philadelphia,
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my mom's beauty shop, looking at "Ebony Magazine,"
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found images that told stories that were often not in the daily news,
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but in the family album.
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I wanted the family album to be energetic for me,
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a way of telling stories,
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and one day I happened upon a book in the Philadelphia Public Library
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called "The Sweet Flypaper of Life" by Roy DeCarava and Langston Hughes.
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I think what attracted me as a seven-year-old,
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the title, flypaper and sweet,
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but to think about that as a seven-year-old,
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I looked at the beautiful images that Roy DeCarava made
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and then looked at ways that I could tell a story about life.
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And looking for me is the act that basically changed my life.
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HWT: My friend Chris Johnson told me that every photographer,
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every artist, is essentially trying to answer one question,
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and I think your question might have been,
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"Why doesn't the rest of the world see how beautiful we are,
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and what can I do to help them see our community the way I do?"
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DW: While studying in art school --
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it's probably true --
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I had a male professor who told me that I was taking up a good man's space.
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He tried to stifle my dream of becoming a photographer.
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He attempted to shame me in a class full of male photographers.
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He told me I was out of place and out of order as a woman,
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and he went on to say that all you could and would do
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was to have a baby when a good man could have had your seat in this class.
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I was shocked into silence into that experience.
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But I had my camera, and I was determined to prove to him
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that I was worthy for a seat in that class.
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But in retrospect, I asked myself: "Why did I need to prove it to him?"
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You know, I had my camera, and I knew I needed to prove to myself
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that I would make a difference in photography.
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I love photography, and no one is going to stop me from making images.
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HWT: But that's when I came in.
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DW: Yeah, that year I graduated, I got pregnant.
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Yep, he was right.
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And I had you,
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and I shook off that sexist language that he used against me
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and picked up my camera and made photographs daily,
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and made photographs of my pregnant belly as I prepared for graduate school.
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But I thought about also that black photographers were missing
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from the history books of photography,
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and I was looking for ways to tell a story.
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And I ran across Gordon Parks' book "A Choice of Weapons,"
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which was his autobiography.
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I began photographing and making images,
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and I tucked away that contact sheet that I made of my pregnant belly,
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and then you inspired me to create a new piece,
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a piece that said, "A woman taking a place from a good man,"
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"You took the space from a good man,"
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and then I used that language and reversed it and said,
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"I made a space for a good man, you."
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(Applause)
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HWT: Thanks, ma.
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Like mother, like son.
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I grew up in a house full of photographs.
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They were everywhere, and my mother would turn the kitchen into a darkroom.
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And there weren't just pictures that she took
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and pictures of family members.
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But there were pictures on the wall of and by people that we didn't know,
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men and women that we didn't know.
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Thanks, ma.
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(Laughter)
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I have my own timing.
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(Laughter)
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Did you see her poke me?
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(Laughter)
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Puppet strings.
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I grew up in a house full of photographs.
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(Applause)
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But they weren't just pictures of men and women that we knew,
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but pictures of people that I didn't know,
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Pretty much, it was pretty clear from what I learned in school,
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that the rest of the world didn't either.
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And it took me a long time to figure out what she was up to,
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but after a while, I figured it out.
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When I was nine years old, she published this book,
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"Black Photographers, 1840-1940: A Bio-Bibliography."
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And it's astounding to me to consider
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that in 1840, African Americans were making photographs.
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What does it mean for us to think
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that at a time that was two, three decades before the end of slavery,
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that people were learning how to read,
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they had to learn how to do math,
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they had to be on the cutting edge of science and technology,
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to do math, physics and chemistry just to make a single photograph.
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And what compelled them to do that if not love?
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Well, that book led her to her next book, "Black Photographers, 1940-1988,"
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and that book led to another book, and another book, and another book,
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and another book, and another book,
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and another book, and another book,
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and another book, and another book, and another book, and another book,
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and another book, and another book, and another book, and another book,
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and another book, and another book, and another.
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(Applause)
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And throughout my life,
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she's edited and published dozens of books
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and curated numerous exhibitions on every continent,
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not all about black photographers but all inspired by the curiosity
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of a little black girl from North Philadelphia.
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DW: What I found is that black photographers had stories to tell,
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and we needed to listen.
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And then I found and I discovered
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black photographers like Augustus Washington,
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who made these beautiful daguerreotypes
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of the McGill family in the early 1840s and '50s.
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Their stories tended to be different, black photographers,
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and they had a different narrative about black life during slavery,
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but it was also about family life, beauty and telling stories about community.
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I didn't know how to link the stories,
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but I knew that teachers needed to know this story.
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HWT: So I think I was my mother's first student.
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Unwillingly and unwittingly -- puppet strings --
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I decided to pick up a camera,
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and thought that I should make my own pictures
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about the then and now and the now and then.
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I thought about how I could use photography
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to talk about how what's going on outside of the frame of the camera
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can affect what we see inside.
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The truth is always in the hands of the actual image maker
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and it's up to us to really consider what's being cut out.
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I thought I could use her research as a jumping-off point
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of things that I was seeing in society
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and I wanted to start to think about how I could use historical images
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to talk about the past being present
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and think about ways that we can speak
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to the perennial struggle for human rights and equal rights
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through my appropriation of photographs
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in the form of sculpture, video,
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installation and paintings.
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But through it all, one piece has affected me the most.
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It continues to nourish me.
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It's based off of this photograph by Ernest Withers,
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who took this picture in 1968
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at the Memphis Sanitation Workers March
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of men and women standing collectively to affirm their humanity.
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They were holding signs that said "I am a man,"
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and I found that astounding, because the phrase I grew up with
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wasn't "I am a man," it was "I am the man,"
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and I was amazed at how it went from this collective statement during segregation
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to this seemingly selfish statement after integration.
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And I wanted to ponder that,
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so I decided to remix that text in as many ways as I could think of,
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and I like to think of the top line as a timeline of American history,
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and the last line as a poem,
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and it says,
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"I am the man. Who's the man. You the man. What a man.
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I am man. I am many. I am, am I.
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I am, I am. I am, Amen.
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DW: Wow, so fascinating.
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(Applause)
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But what we learn from this experience
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is the most powerful two words in the English language is, "I am."
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And we each have the capacity to love.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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