Noah Feldman: Politics and religion are technologies

28,788 views ・ 2008-10-10

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:12
I want to argue to you that in fact, politics and religion,
0
12160
5000
00:17
which are the two primary factors --
1
17160
2000
00:19
not the sole, but overwhelmingly, the primary factors --
2
19160
3000
00:22
which are driving towards a war which looks extremely likely --
3
22160
3000
00:25
bordering on the inevitable at this point,
4
25160
2000
00:27
whether one is in favor of that or not --
5
27160
2000
00:29
that politics and religion are, in fact, themselves
6
29160
3000
00:32
better conceptualized as kinds of technology,
7
32160
4000
00:36
and subject to kinds of questions that we regularly consider
8
36160
5000
00:41
in the space of conceptual design.
9
41160
3000
00:44
Here's what I mean. Politics and --
10
44160
3000
00:47
let's focus on the political system in particular question here,
11
47160
3000
00:50
which is the system of democracy.
12
50160
2000
00:52
Democracy, as a type of politics, is a technology
13
52160
4000
00:56
for the control and deployment of power.
14
56160
2000
00:58
You can deploy power in a wide range of ways.
15
58160
3000
01:01
The famous ones -- despotism is a good one;
16
61160
2000
01:03
anarchy is a way to not deploy the power in any organized way,
17
63160
3000
01:06
to do it in a radically diffused fashion;
18
66160
2000
01:08
and democracy is a set of technologies,
19
68160
2000
01:10
which have the effect of, in principle,
20
70160
3000
01:13
diffusing the power source to a large number of people
21
73160
3000
01:16
and then re-concentrating it in a smaller group of people who govern,
22
76160
3000
01:19
and who themselves are, in principle, authorized to govern
23
79160
4000
01:23
by virtue of what the broader public has done.
24
83160
3000
01:26
Now, consider religion -- in this case Islam,
25
86160
3000
01:29
which is the religion that, in some direct sense,
26
89160
3000
01:32
can be said to be precipitating what we're about to enter.
27
92160
4000
01:36
Let me say parenthetically why I think that's the case,
28
96160
2000
01:38
because I think it's a potentially controversial statement.
29
98160
3000
01:41
I would put it in the following equation: no 9/11, no war.
30
101160
4000
01:45
At the beginning of the Bush administration,
31
105160
4000
01:49
when President Bush, now President Bush, was running for president,
32
109160
3000
01:52
he made it very clear that he was not interested in intervening broadly in the world.
33
112160
3000
01:55
In fact, the trend was for disengagement with the rest of the world.
34
115160
3000
01:58
That's why we heard about the backing away from the Kyoto protocol, for example.
35
118160
3000
02:02
After 9/11, the tables were turned.
36
122160
3000
02:05
And the president decided, with his advisors,
37
125160
3000
02:08
to undertake some kind of an active intervention in the world around us.
38
128160
4000
02:12
That began with Afghanistan,
39
132160
2000
02:14
and when Afghanistan went extremely smoothly and quickly,
40
134160
3000
02:17
a decision was made through the technology of democracy --
41
137160
4000
02:21
again, notice, not a perfect technology --
42
141160
3000
02:24
but through the technology of democracy
43
144160
2000
02:26
that this administration was going to push in the direction of another war --
44
146160
3000
02:29
this time, a war in Iraq.
45
149160
2000
02:31
Now, the reason I begin by saying "no 9/11, no war"
46
151160
5000
02:36
is that we have to acknowledge that Islam,
47
156160
4000
02:40
as interpreted by a very, very small, extremely radical group of people,
48
160160
6000
02:46
was a precipitating cause of the 9/11 attacks --
49
166160
4000
02:50
the precipitating cause of the 9/11 attacks --
50
170160
2000
02:52
and as a consequence, at one degree of remove,
51
172160
3000
02:55
the precipitating cause of the coming war that we're about to be engaged in.
52
175160
4000
02:59
And I would add that bin Laden and his followers
53
179160
3000
03:02
are consciously devoted to the goal of creating a conflict between democracy,
54
182160
5000
03:07
or at least capitalist democracy, on the one hand,
55
187160
3000
03:10
and the world of Islam as they see and define it.
56
190160
4000
03:14
Now, how is Islam a technology in this conceptual apparatus?
57
194160
3000
03:17
Well, it's a technology for, first, salvation in its most basic sense.
58
197160
4000
03:21
It's meant to be a mechanism for construing the universe
59
201160
3000
03:24
in a way that will bring about the salvation of the individual believer,
60
204160
4000
03:28
but it's also meant by the Islamists --
61
208160
2000
03:30
and I use that term to mean people who believe that Islam --
62
210160
4000
03:34
they follow the slogan, Islam is the answer to a wide range of questions,
63
214160
3000
03:37
whether they're social, or political, or personal, or spiritual.
64
217160
3000
03:40
Within the sphere of people who have that view,
65
220160
2000
03:42
and it's a large number of people in the Muslim world
66
222160
2000
03:44
who disagree with bin Laden in his application,
67
224160
2000
03:46
but agree that Islam is the answer.
68
226160
2000
03:48
Islam represents a way of engaging the world
69
228160
3000
03:51
through which one can achieve certain desirable goals.
70
231160
3000
03:54
And the goals from the perspective of Muslims are, in principle,
71
234160
4000
03:58
peace, justice and equality,
72
238160
3000
04:01
but on terms that correspond to traditional Muslim teachings.
73
241160
4000
04:05
Now, I don't want to leave a misimpression
74
245160
3000
04:08
by identifying either of these propositions --
75
248160
3000
04:11
rather, either of these phenomena, democracy or Islam -- as technologies.
76
251160
4000
04:15
I don't want to suggest that they are a single thing that you can point to.
77
255160
3000
04:18
And I think a good way to prove this
78
258160
2000
04:20
is simply to demonstrate to you what my thought process was
79
260160
3000
04:23
when deciding what to put on the wall behind me when I spoke.
80
263160
3000
04:26
And I ran immediately into a conceptual problem:
81
266160
2000
04:28
you can't show a picture of democracy.
82
268160
2000
04:30
You can show a slogan, or a symbol, or a sign that stands for democracy.
83
270160
5000
04:35
You can show the Capitol --
84
275160
1000
04:36
I had the same problem when I was designing the cover
85
276160
2000
04:38
of my forthcoming book, in fact --
86
278160
2000
04:40
what do you put on the cover to show democracy?
87
280160
2000
04:42
And the same problem with respect to Islam.
88
282160
2000
04:44
You can show a mosque, or you can show worshippers,
89
284160
2000
04:46
but there's not a straightforward way of depicting Islam.
90
286160
2000
04:48
That's because these are the kinds of concepts
91
288160
2000
04:50
that are not susceptible to easy representation.
92
290160
3000
04:53
Now, it follows from that, that they're deeply contestable.
93
293160
3000
04:56
It follows from that that all of the people in the world
94
296160
3000
04:59
who say that they are Muslims can, in principle,
95
299160
2000
05:01
subscribe to a wide range of different interpretations
96
301160
3000
05:04
of what Islam really is, and the same is true of democracy.
97
304160
5000
05:09
In other words, unlike the word hope,
98
309160
3000
05:12
which one could look up in a dictionary and derive origins for,
99
312160
4000
05:16
and, perhaps, reach some kind of a consensual use analysis,
100
316160
3000
05:19
these are essentially contested concepts.
101
319160
2000
05:21
They're ideas about which people disagree in the deepest possible sense.
102
321160
6000
05:27
And as a consequence of this disagreement,
103
327160
3000
05:30
it's very, very difficult for anyone to say,
104
330160
2000
05:32
"I have the right version of Islam."
105
332160
2000
05:34
You know, post-9/11, we were treated to the amazing phenomenon
106
334160
3000
05:37
of George W. Bush saying, "Islam means peace."
107
337160
3000
05:40
Well, so says George W. Bush.
108
340160
3000
05:43
Other people would say it means something else.
109
343160
2000
05:45
Some people would say that Islam means submission.
110
345160
2000
05:47
Other people would say it means an acknowledgement
111
347160
2000
05:49
or recognition of God's sovereignty.
112
349160
2000
05:51
There are a wide range of different things that Islam can mean.
113
351160
3000
05:54
And ostensibly, the same is true of democracy.
114
354160
2000
05:56
Some people say that democracy consists basically in elections.
115
356160
3000
05:59
Other people say no, that's not enough,
116
359160
2000
06:01
there have to be basic liberal rights: free speech, free press, equality of citizens.
117
361160
4000
06:05
These are contested points, and it's impossible to answer them by saying,
118
365160
3000
06:08
"Ah ha, I looked in the right place, and I found out what these concepts mean."
119
368160
3000
06:12
Now, if Islam and democracy are at present
120
372160
4000
06:16
in a moment of great confrontation,
121
376160
2000
06:18
what does that mean?
122
378160
2000
06:20
Well, you could fit it into a range of different interpretative frameworks.
123
380160
4000
06:24
You could begin with the one that we began with a couple of days ago,
124
384160
3000
06:27
which was fear.
125
387160
2000
06:29
Fear is not an implausible reaction with a war just around the corner
126
389160
5000
06:34
and with a very, very high likelihood that many, many people are going to die
127
394160
3000
06:37
as a consequence of this confrontation --
128
397160
2000
06:39
a confrontation which many, many people
129
399160
2000
06:41
in the Muslim world do not want,
130
401160
2000
06:43
many, many people in the American democracy do not want,
131
403160
3000
06:46
many people elsewhere in the world do not want,
132
406160
2000
06:48
but which nonetheless is favored by a large enough number of people --
133
408160
3000
06:51
at least in the relevant space, which is the United States --
134
411160
4000
06:55
to actually go forward. So fear is not a crazy response at all.
135
415160
3000
06:58
And I think that that's, in fact, probably the first appropriate response.
136
418160
4000
07:02
What I want to suggest to you, though, in the next couple of minutes
137
422160
3000
07:05
is that there's also a hopeful response to this.
138
425160
4000
07:09
And the hopeful response derives from recognizing
139
429160
3000
07:12
that Islam and democracy are technologies.
140
432160
2000
07:14
And by virtue of being technologies, they're manipulable.
141
434160
3000
07:17
And they're manipulable in ways
142
437160
2000
07:19
that can produce some extremely positive outcomes.
143
439160
2000
07:21
What do I have in mind?
144
441160
2000
07:23
Well, all over the Muslim world there are people
145
443160
3000
07:26
who take Islam deeply seriously, people who care about Islam,
146
446160
4000
07:30
for whom it's a source either of faith, or of civilization, or of deep values,
147
450160
4000
07:34
or just a source of powerful personal identity,
148
454160
2000
07:36
who think and are saying loudly that Islam and democracy
149
456160
4000
07:40
are in fact not in conflict, but are in fact deeply compatible.
150
460160
4000
07:44
And these Muslims -- and it's the vast majority of Muslims --
151
464160
3000
07:47
disagree profoundly with bin Laden's approach, profoundly.
152
467160
5000
07:52
And they furthermore think overwhelmingly --
153
472160
3000
07:55
again one can't speak of every person, but overwhelmingly,
154
475160
2000
07:57
and one can find this by reading any of the sources
155
477160
2000
07:59
that they have produced, and they're all over the Internet
156
479160
3000
08:02
and in all sorts of languages -- one can see that they're saying
157
482160
3000
08:05
that their concern in their own countries is primarily to free up themselves
158
485160
6000
08:11
to have choice in the spheres of personal life,
159
491160
4000
08:15
in the sphere of economics, in the sphere of politics,
160
495160
3000
08:18
and, yes, in the sphere of religion,
161
498160
2000
08:20
which is itself closely regulated in most of the Muslim world.
162
500160
3000
08:23
And many of these Muslims further say
163
503160
2000
08:25
that their disagreement with the United States
164
505160
3000
08:28
is that it, in the past and still in the present,
165
508160
3000
08:31
has sided with autocratic rulers in the Muslim world
166
511160
4000
08:35
in order to promote America's short-term interests.
167
515160
6000
08:41
Now, during the Cold War, that may have been
168
521160
2000
08:43
a defensible position for the United States to take.
169
523160
2000
08:45
That's an academic question.
170
525160
2000
08:47
It may be that there was a great war to be fought between West and East,
171
527160
3000
08:50
and it was necessary on the axis of democracy against communism.
172
530160
4000
08:54
And it was necessary in some way for these to contradict each other,
173
534160
3000
08:57
and as a consequence you have to make friends wherever you can get them.
174
537160
3000
09:00
But now that the Cold War is over,
175
540160
2000
09:02
there's nearly universal consensus in the Muslim world --
176
542160
4000
09:06
and pretty close to the same here in the United States,
177
546160
2000
09:08
if you talk to people and ask them --
178
548160
2000
09:10
that in principle, there's no reason that democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
179
550160
4000
09:14
And we see this among activist, practical Muslims,
180
554160
3000
09:17
like the Muslims who are presently the elected,
181
557160
2000
09:19
parliamentary, democratic government of Turkey,
182
559160
2000
09:21
who are behaving pragmatically, not ideologically,
183
561160
3000
09:24
who are promoting their own religious values,
184
564160
2000
09:26
who are elected by their own people
185
566160
2000
09:28
because they were perceived as honest and sincere
186
568160
2000
09:30
because of their religious values,
187
570160
2000
09:32
but who do not think that Islam and a democratic system of governance
188
572160
4000
09:36
are fundamentally incompatible.
189
576160
2000
09:38
Now, you may say, but surely, what we've seen on television about Saudi Islam
190
578160
5000
09:43
convinces us that it can't possibly be compatible
191
583160
2000
09:45
with what we consider the core of democracy --
192
585160
2000
09:47
namely, free political choice, basic liberty and basic equality.
193
587160
4000
09:51
But I'm here to tell you that technologies
194
591160
4000
09:55
are more malleable than that.
195
595160
2000
09:57
I'm here to tell you that many, many Muslims believe --
196
597160
3000
10:00
the vast majority, in fact -- in fact I think I would go so far as to say
197
600160
2000
10:02
that many Muslims in Saudi Arabia believe that the core values of Islam,
198
602160
4000
10:06
namely acknowledgement of God's sovereignty
199
606160
2000
10:08
and basic human equality before God,
200
608160
3000
10:11
are themselves compatible with liberty, equality and free political choice.
201
611160
4000
10:15
And there are Muslims, many Muslims out there, who are saying precisely this.
202
615160
5000
10:20
And they're making this argument wherever they're permitted to make it.
203
620160
3000
10:23
But their governments, needless to say, are relatively threatened by this.
204
623160
2000
10:25
And for the most part try to stop them from making this argument.
205
625160
3000
10:28
So, for example, a group of young activists in Egypt
206
628160
4000
10:32
try to form a party known as the Center Party,
207
632160
2000
10:34
which advocated the compatibility of Islam and democracy.
208
634160
2000
10:36
They weren't even allowed to form a party.
209
636160
2000
10:38
They were actually blocked from even forming a party
210
638160
2000
10:40
under the political system there. Why?
211
640160
2000
10:42
Because they would have done extraordinarily well.
212
642160
2000
10:44
In the most recent elections in the Muslim world --
213
644160
2000
10:46
which are those in Pakistan, those in Morocco
214
646160
3000
10:49
and those in Turkey -- in each case,
215
649160
2000
10:51
people who present themselves to the electorate as Islamic democrats
216
651160
3000
10:54
were far and away the most successful vote-getters
217
654160
3000
10:57
every place they were allowed to run freely.
218
657160
4000
11:01
So in Morocco, for example, they finished third in the political race
219
661160
4000
11:05
but they were only allowed to contest half the seats.
220
665160
2000
11:07
So had they contested a larger number of the seats,
221
667160
2000
11:09
they would have done even better.
222
669160
2000
11:11
Now what I want to suggest to you is that the reason for hope in this case
223
671160
3000
11:14
is that we are on the edge of a real transformation in the Muslim world.
224
674160
5000
11:19
And that's a transformation in which many sincerely believing Muslims --
225
679160
4000
11:23
who care very, very deeply about their traditions,
226
683160
3000
11:26
who do not want to compromise those values --
227
686160
3000
11:29
believe, through the malleability of the technology of democracy
228
689160
4000
11:33
and the malleability and synthetic capability of the technology of Islam,
229
693160
5000
11:38
that these two ideas can work together.
230
698160
3000
11:41
Now what would that look like?
231
701160
2000
11:43
What does it mean to say that there's an Islamic democracy?
232
703160
3000
11:46
Well, one thing is, it's not going to look identical
233
706160
2000
11:48
to democracy as we know it in the United States.
234
708160
3000
11:51
That may be a good thing, in light of some of the criticisms we've heard today --
235
711160
3000
11:54
for example, in the regulatory context -- of what democracy produces.
236
714160
4000
11:58
It will also not look exactly the way either the people in this room,
237
718160
4000
12:02
or Muslims out in the rest of the world --
238
722160
2000
12:04
I don't mean to imply there aren't Muslims here, there probably are --
239
724160
3000
12:07
conceptualize Islam.
240
727160
2000
12:09
It will be transformative of Islam as well.
241
729160
3000
12:12
And as a result of this convergence,
242
732160
3000
12:15
this synthetic attempt to make sense of these two ideas together,
243
735160
4000
12:19
there's a real possibility that, instead of a clash
244
739160
3000
12:22
of Islamic civilization -- if there is such a thing --
245
742160
3000
12:25
and democratic civilization -- if there is such a thing --
246
745160
2000
12:27
we'll in fact have close compatibility.
247
747160
3000
12:30
Now, I began with the war because it's the elephant in the room,
248
750160
4000
12:34
and you can't pretend that there isn't about to be a war
249
754160
2000
12:36
if you're talking about these issues.
250
756160
2000
12:38
The war has tremendous risks for the model that I'm describing
251
758160
3000
12:41
because it's very possible that as a consequence of a war,
252
761160
3000
12:44
many Muslims will conclude that the United States
253
764160
3000
12:47
is not the kind of place that they want to emulate
254
767160
2000
12:49
with respect to its forms of political government.
255
769160
3000
12:52
On the other hand, there's a further possibility that many Americans,
256
772160
3000
12:55
swept up in the fever of a war, will say, and feel, and think
257
775160
5000
13:00
that Islam is the enemy somehow --
258
780160
2000
13:02
that Islam ought to be construed as the enemy.
259
782160
3000
13:05
And even though, for political tactical reasons,
260
785160
2000
13:07
the president has been very, very good about saying that Islam is not the enemy,
261
787160
4000
13:11
nonetheless, there's a natural impulse when one enters war
262
791160
3000
13:14
to think of the other side as an enemy.
263
794160
2000
13:16
And one furthermore has the impulse to generalize, as much as possible,
264
796160
3000
13:19
in defining who that enemy is.
265
799160
2000
13:21
So the risks are very great.
266
801160
2000
13:23
On the other hand, the capacities for positive results in the aftermath of a war
267
803160
7000
13:30
are also not to be underestimated,
268
810160
2000
13:32
even by, and I would say especially by, people
269
812160
3000
13:35
who are deeply skeptical about whether we should go to war in the first place.
270
815160
3000
13:38
Those who oppose the war ought to realize that if a war happens,
271
818160
5000
13:43
it cannot be the right strategy,
272
823160
2000
13:45
either pragmatically, or spiritually, or morally, to say after the war,
273
825160
6000
13:51
"Well, let's let it all run itself out, and play out however it wants to play out,
274
831160
3000
13:54
because we opposed the war in the first place."
275
834160
2000
13:56
That's not the way human circumstances operate.
276
836160
2000
13:58
You face the circumstances you have in front of you
277
838160
2000
14:00
and you go forward.
278
840160
2000
14:02
Well, what I'm here to say then is,
279
842160
2000
14:04
for people who are skeptical about the war,
280
844160
2000
14:06
it's especially important to recognize that in the aftermath of the war
281
846160
3000
14:09
there is a possibility for the government of the United States
282
849160
4000
14:13
and the Muslim peoples with whom it interacts
283
853160
3000
14:16
to create real forms of government that are truly democratic
284
856160
3000
14:19
and also truly Islamic.
285
859160
2000
14:21
And it is crucial -- it is crucial in a practical, activist way --
286
861160
4000
14:25
for people who care about these issues to make sure
287
865160
4000
14:29
that within the technology of democracy, in this system,
288
869160
3000
14:32
they exercise their preferences, their choices and their voices
289
872160
3000
14:35
to encourage that outcome.
290
875160
2000
14:37
That's a hopeful message,
291
877160
2000
14:39
but it's a message that's hopeful only if you understand it
292
879160
2000
14:41
as incurring serious obligation for all of us.
293
881160
3000
14:44
And I think that we are capable of taking on that obligation,
294
884160
3000
14:47
but only if we put what we can into it.
295
887160
3000
14:50
And if we do, then I don't think that the hope will be unwarranted altogether.
296
890160
4000
14:54
Thanks.
297
894160
1000
About this website

This site will introduce you to YouTube videos that are useful for learning English. You will see English lessons taught by top-notch teachers from around the world. Double-click on the English subtitles displayed on each video page to play the video from there. The subtitles scroll in sync with the video playback. If you have any comments or requests, please contact us using this contact form.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7