English Listening Practice - AVOID Perfection

Hello there.

Welcome to the English Like a Native Podcast.

This is the British English Podcast that's designed to help

you to improve your English.

It's jolly nice of you to join me.

My name's Anna, by the way, and today I'm going to be talking about perfectionism.

Do you realise it's taken me all day to sit down in front of this

microphone and record this, hopefully this final take of this introduction.

I've spent ages thinking about and planning this podcast.

Ages here is a time phrase, a slang time phrase, that means a long time.

If something takes ages, it means it takes a long time.

So it's taken me ages to think about this overall podcast and how

I will introduce the topic, how I will start the podcast, 'cause often

getting started is the hardest part.

And then I've recorded the intro many times and deleted

that work to start again.

Why?

Because I am a perfectionist.

Now, do we have any perfectionists in the audience listening today?

You might think, what's the problem with being a perfectionist?

Why do you sound upset about being a perfectionist?

Well, being a perfectionist comes with one huge downside, and the the downside

is that you never get anything done.

Or if you do achieve something, it's usually hugely delayed.

Or if you achieve something and then later discover a mistake or

a flaw in what you produced...

oh, the world ends.

At least that's how it seems to a perfectionist.

So perfectionism is basically wanting everything to be perfect, to be flawless.

So if you are a perfectionist, you don't want to create anything or do anything

that isn't perfect, but perfection is actually really hard to achieve.

First of all, how do you define perfection?

Something that's perfect for me might not be perfect for you.

For example, what's your perfect Sunday?

What's the perfect day for you?

It might be spending time with your friends after having a long lie-in,

lounging around the house, drinking a black coffee and eating a croissant,

and then going to spend time with your friends, exploring the city.

That might be your perfect day.

To me, that wouldn't be my perfect day.

I like a little lie-in, but I don't like to lounge around too long.

I feel like I'm wasting the day and I don't like to drink my coffee black.

If I drink coffee, I like it with a generous splash of coconut milk.

And I do enjoy a croissant but I'd rather have a pain au chocolat

if I'm going to have a pastry.

And I certainly feel guilty if that's all I have.

I like to at least offset the guilt of all that fat and sugar with a little

bit of fruit or something like that.

And then I enjoy spending time with my family.

And when I've got young children, wandering around a city is not...

it's not ideal.

So I like to get out into the countryside and breathe in the fresh

air and spend time with nature.

That for me would be more of a...

a perfect Sunday.

And what's your idea of a perfect meal?

I'm sure it would be very different to my idea of a perfect meal

and different to lots of other people's idea of a perfect meal.

So what I'm saying here is perfection is objective.

Everyone sees perfection in a different way.

So perfectionism can be a major obstacle to productivity.

This is the problem.

It leads us to procrastinate, and it causes indecision.

Now, that was a big word I just used.

Procrastination.

Procrastination.

We procrastinate.

What does this word mean?

So to procrastinate.

If you procrastinate, it means that you put off doing something that

you need to do, like cleaning the house or writing a podcast episode

and getting on and recording it.

To put off, that's an interesting phrasal verb, to put off

something or to put something off.

So it's a separable phrasal verb.

It means to delay something.

Okay.

There are other meanings to put off, but in this instance it means to delay.

So if I'm going to put off doing the housework, I'm going

to delay doing the housework.

If I put off writing and recording my podcast, I'm delaying writing

and recording my podcast.

So procrastination is when you put off doing something you need to do.

You might do other things instead that are just not related to the

task or they're just not important.

You just keep yourself busy saying, I'll do that thing

that I need to do in a minute.

I'll do it as soon as I finish this task.

But really what we're doing is avoiding the important thing that we need to do.

Now, I am terrible for procrastinating and I procrastinate

because I am a perfectionist.

I think I started as a perfectionist from being very, very young.

I remember being in primary school and they always ask the question,

when you're a young child, "what do you want to be when you grow up?"

"Well, I want to be a writer."

I used to say at some point in primary school, "I want to be a writer."

And so I would sit down with my paper and my pen and I would spend hours

just writing little stories or working on the novel that I'd planned out.

And I remember at one point giving up and someone saying, why didn't

you finish writing this story?

And my answer was, "Because I don't think anyone would want to read it.

It's not very good.

My ideas are not good enough.

Who will want to read my ideas?"

So I was such a perfectionist from a young age that I put myself off doing

what I felt passionate about because I didn't think I would ever be good enough.

So that stopped me from doing what I wanted to do, and it was the

same with drawing or painting.

I would buy a canvas, and a canvas is, you know, like that thicker material.

It's not paper ... a canvas is...

I don't know what a canvas is made of actually, but it's a much thicker, like

card material that's usually in a frame, a wooden frame, or stretched across a wooden

frame and you hang a canvas on the wall.

So I, I've bought lots of art canvases for my studio.

And I've bought a couple in the past to do some artwork on, I studied art at

college for a time, and I never started.

They just sat there blank.

I'd stare at them and think, well, I can't start until I know exactly

what I'm going to do, and it probably won't be good enough, and

that will be a waste of the canvas.

And so what happened was I never produced any artwork on

those canvases, what a shame.

But this happens time and time again, and even now, to be honest, even now, I suffer

with something called imposter syndrome, which is something that many people

either silently or publicly suffer from.

Imposter syndrome is when you do not believe in the worth of your

knowledge or in the worth of your work.

So it's not that you don't believe in it, but you feel like maybe someone's

gonna find you out, like you don't belong there, like you're an imposter.

And when I started on YouTube, I nearly didn't start on YouTube by the way.

It took someone who knew me very well, giving me a lot of encouragement

for me to start work on YouTube.

But when I first started on YouTube, I felt like a fraud.

I felt like I wasn't made for YouTube, that my presentation style wasn't

good enough, that no one would want to listen to anything I had to say, that

my editing wasn't good enough, that my storytelling wasn't good enough.

And I, yeah, I just overall felt like, what's the point?

Why should I do this?

I'm just going to embarrass myself and you know, several YouTube channels later,

all very successful YouTube channels...

I still have moments where I feel like, am I doing the right thing?

Should I even be here?

There are many groups that I belong to, groups of English teachers, groups

of content creators, all sorts of different content creators who are

all very successful and people that I look up to and think, "wow, you're

amazing" and I always put myself down within those groups and think to

myself, "Am I good enough to be here?"

"Do I deserve to be amongst these people who are amazing?"

So that all stems from perfectionism.

I'm a perfectionist, therefore I always doubt everything I do, and

this can lead to imposter syndrome.

Does anyone relate?

Does anyone else feel that they themselves suffer with imposter syndrome or have

been, at times, a perfectionist to a point where it's delayed you producing

work or getting something done?

And I guess you can relate this to speaking a language as well.

So obviously you are here to learn English.

You're English learners, you probably also know other languages as well, and

you must have felt at times nervous to hold a conversation with a native

speaker or another student also learning the same language because you feel like

you are not going to be good enough because you want to be good, but you

don't feel like you're good enough.

That is being a perfectionist.

Being scared to make mistakes, wanting to be perfect, and that making you stop or

that restricting your ability to just get on and have a conversation in English.

Now, I will come on to a couple of things to think about and how to

deal with being a perfectionist.

But before we get there, I thought I would take this opportunity to

introduce a couple of nice phrases that are linked to perfectionism.

So the first phrase is one that always brings a smile to my face, and it's

to have all your ducks in a row.

To have all your ducks in a row.

So here I'm talking about the animal "quack quack" the duck.

And if you have all your ducks in a row, it means that you are well

organized and you have everything worked out, everything in order.

So for example, if you are moving house, there are lots of things to organise.

You need to organise the furniture removal van and the people

that will help you to move your furniture from one place to another.

You might need to organise storage if you don't have a

house to move onto straight away.

You need to organise all the legalities around signing forms and documents

and liaising with the estate agents to organise handing over your property and

getting your hands on the next property.

So lots of things to organise.

You will need to have all your ducks in a row.

I often find that I have some of my ducks in a row, but not all my ducks in a row.

Um, yeah, I am not a very organised person, even though on the surface I might

seem to be an organised person, I just don't have enough time to complete...

the organisation of things, there's always so much going on in life.

I think I'm just in that very busy time in life, when you have young children

and you are at a certain level in your work, where you are maxed out.

To be maxed out means you've reached the maximum pressure.

I carry a heavy workload, so I'm maxed out with work and I'm maxed out in

my personal life with all the admin of having young kids and the lack of

sleep and everything they need from me.

So trying to get all my ducks in a row is an endless task, it's very

hard to achieve, but I will strive to get all my ducks in a row.

Now the next phrase is to be a stickler for detail.

A stickler, I don't hear the word stickler being used in any other

way other than as part of this phrase to be a stickler for detail.

This is an idiom which describes someone who pays close attention

to detail, and they're very particular about how things are done.

So for example, if...

If I'm cleaning your house (and I always clean your house), and then one day I

don't arrange the cushions on your sofa in a way that you like, maybe I put

the cushions to one side of the sofa and you like the cushions to be evenly

distributed across the back of the sofa.

Then you might say, "Excuse me, Anna.

Sorry.

Before you go, can you please rearrange the cushions?

Evenly distribute them across the back of the sofa, because

that's exactly how I like it done, and you must do it that way".

I could then describe you as being a stickler for detail.

You are being very, very picky.

You've paid really close attention to detail and you have a very particular

way that you like things to be done.

I don't think it's a good thing to be a stickler for detail, although

in some cases it's fantastic to be a stickler for detail.

In the teaching world, it's good for a teacher to be a stickler for detail.

And if you are a proofreader or someone who works in accountancy, then you really

do need to be a stickler for detail.

One missing number could really mess up someone's accounts.

So are you a stickler for detail?

Now the next phrase is quite similar, and again, it means to be

focused on small details, but this is much more insignificant detail.

So if someone focuses on small, insignificant details, things

that don't matter than they are nitpicking, they are a nitpicker.

I have been a nitpicker and I continue to be a nitpicker sometimes when I'm doing my

pronunciation assessments because people pay me good money to listen very closely

to their pronunciation and to pick out all the aspects of their pronunciation

in regards to how close it is to an RP accent, received pronunciation.

And they want to know exactly what they need to change to sound like

me, to have a a modern RP accent.

And so, when I'm doing those assessments, I have to be a nitpicker.

I have to point out in some cases that this sound slightly slips and I will

say, "you know, I may be nitpicking here.

It's not that important.

But if you want to be as close to perfect as possible, then you will

need to address this particular sound and change it ever so slightly".

So to nitpick is to be overly critical or to focus on the very small details,

often unimportant, insignificant details.

So generally nitpicking is not a good thing.

Moving on to a very positive phrase, and it's the phrase, aim for the stars and

you might just land on the moon, aim for the stars, and you might land on the moon.

I like this phrase because it suggests that if you have really high expectations

or aim for something, even further than you think you can achieve, you

might still land somewhere really good.

Am I explaining this very well?

I'm not sure.

If you want to do well in work and get a promotion, and there

are two job roles available.

One of them is just one level up from where you are.

It's not a huge promotion, but it's something that you think you'll be

good at and is achievable for you.

And another job that's available is three levels above where you,

you'd love to do it, but it's three levels above where you are.

It's very unlikely you're going to get it.

This phrase, aim for the stars and you might just land on the moon.

This phrase would suggest that you should aim for something higher, aim

for something that's not as achievable, and by doing that you give yourself a

chance of getting that higher thing and you will probably get something good,

even though it might not be as good as the stars that you're aiming for.

So by applying for the role that's three levels above where you are, you'll

probably still get the promotion just one level above you, even if you don't get

the one three levels above you, but you might get the one three levels above you.

It reminds me of the phrase, you've got to be in it to win it.

If you don't try, you'll never, but that's a slightly different phrase, and

it's certainly not about perfectionism.

So this is about reaching further than you believe you can get to.

So setting your sights a little higher, or that's a nice phrase, to set your

sights high or to set your sights a little higher than you normally would.

If you set your sight on something then this means, uh, what you are aiming at,

what you are looking at, what you are going for, to set your sights on something

a little higher than you normally would.

Hopefully all of you do, set your sights on something quite high and achieve good

things, especially with your English.

Don't be afraid to get involved in conversations.

Don't strive for perfection with your English.

Just communicate.

Just practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice,

because practice makes progress.

Now the phrase normally is practice makes perfect, but we know that

perfect and striving for perfect is flawed, problematic at best.

There is a saying or a proverb that goes, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

So simplified, perfect is the enemy of good.

You'll never achieve good if you aim for perfect because of all the reasons

I've brought up; procrastination, indecision, actually not getting something

done because you are scared to even start, because you want to be perfect.

So don't let perfection, or your pursuit of perfection impede your

ability just to achieve something good.

This is something I should remind myself of when creating YouTube videos.

Sometimes I'll spend a long, a long time creating a YouTube idea, script,

filming it, and then sorting out the edit and then decide not to post it

because I don't think it's perfect.

And in fact, when I look back at my YouTube videos of the past, the

ones that have done the best are the ones that I nearly didn't post

because I thought they were awful.

And obviously the viewers disagreed with me, they enjoyed

it and those videos did well.

And on the flip side, on the flip side means opposite to that.

On the flip side are videos that I thought were fantastic, that I'm

really proud of, that I thought, everyone's going to love this video.

I've put my heart and my soul into this.

It's perfect or near enough to perfect, and, and they've just flopped.

They've, you know, performed very badly.

So I have to remind myself not to allow my pursuit of perfection to impede

my ability to achieve something good.

There's a really great quote from Henry Kissinger who says, A diamond

is a chunk of coal that did well under pressure, and I love that.

I love that.

A diamond is a chunk of coal that did well under pressure.

I like it so much because it highlights the idea that often it's the process of

overcoming obstacles, of fighting and dealing with pressure and difficulties

that creates something valuable.

So some of the best people who are good at what they do have had to go

through hardship and difficulties and failure in order to arrive

at the place where they are.

A place that some perceive as being perfect.

For example, you rarely get an athlete who started off

being fantastic in their sport.

You know, they often had to work really hard to get where they end up, in

a place of success and achievement.

Even those people who are polyglots with multiple languages under their belt.

They're able to speak fluently in all of those languages and you look

at them and think, "wow, they must just have a knack for language".

But actually they've probably gone through a lot to get to where they are.

They've had to work very hard under pressure, perhaps overcome

obstacles, overcome confidence issues, give up a lot of time and

energy in order to achieve this level of fluency in multiple languages.

So just keep that quote in mind.

A diamond is a chunk of coal that did well under pressure.

Okay.

I did promise at the beginning of this that I would offer some

words of advice for any other fellow perfectionists out there.

So I've got three pieces of advice or three tips we could say if

you are yourself a perfectionist.

So the first hip is to set realistic goals.

We often, we perfectionists, we often set unrealistic goals for ourselves and

when we do that, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment and frustration.

So by setting realistic goals and expectations that can help to reduce our

stress and increase our productivity.

A very good example of this for me was my upload schedule.

So I started this podcast thinking I'm going to produce at least

one podcast episode a week, and I was doing one long form piece

of content on my YouTube channel.

So a 10-minute video a week, a 25-minute podcast episode a week.

And then I wanted to do a short video every day.

So that's seven shorts a week.

And I was also trying to make these podcasts into videos.

An extra long video every week made from the podcast audio alongside my normal

contributions to my course students and my live streams that I do for them.

And all the, the stuff that goes on in the backend, running the courses,

doing the admin, all that kind of stuff.

I'd set such unrealistic goals for myself, that was too heavy a schedule,

considering I only work four days a week because of my, my childcare

limitations and it's just too much.

It's just too much.

They were unrealistic goals, and guess what?

Very quickly I suffered from burnout.

I was overwhelmed.

I felt stressed.

I felt like I started creating things in a rush, which really bothered me

because I'm a perfectionist, and so it just all fell apart and I was very

frustrated and disappointed and exhausted.

Tip number one, set yourself realistic goals.

It just reduces a lot of the pressure.

Tip number two for you perfectionists, is to practice self-compassion.

Be kind to yourself.

Perfectionists tend to be too hard on themselves.

To be hard on yourself means that you criticise yourself harshly and unfairly,

especially when you make mistakes.

So if you are the kind of person who really beats yourself up when

you make a mistake or you feel like you haven't done a good enough job,

then you definitely need to learn to just give yourself an easier time.

Let yourself off.

Forgive yourself.

Be compassionate about the difficulties you had to deal with.

Why did you fail?

Did you set unrealistic goals?

You know, understand why you feel that way and try to just,

yeah, be easier on yourself.

Be kinder to yourself and also factor in a little bit of self-care.

This is something we tend to overlook.

If we're perfectionists and we are workaholics, especially, we tend

not to practise enough self-care.

So things like taking some time out just to relax or do something

that helps you to wind down.

Prioritising sleep and fitness and general good health.

Okay, so that's tip number two, practise self-compassion and self-care.

Number three is learn to let go.

In the famous words of, is it Anna?

No Elsa from Frozen?

Let it go.

Just let it go.

We often struggle to let things go.

And we struggle to move on when we do make mistakes or when we feel like something's

imperfect, we focus on it and, and just again, beat ourselves up about it.

We make it more important than it actually is.

So forget about that.

Let yourself off.

To let someone off is to allow them to, um, how do you explain this?

To let someone off, is someone, um, escapes without punishment.

So if I tell you you can't eat my biscuits and I catch you with your

hand in the biscuit tin, and I don't want to tell you off because

I'm too tired and you're looking at me with those big puppy dog eyes.

Then I say, "oh fine.

I'll let you off, have one.

I'll let you off this time, but don't eat my cookies again.

Don't eat my biscuits.

They're my biscuits.

But I'll let you off this time".

So you have to learn to let things go.

Don't hold on to the past.

Don't hold on to bad things or seemingly bad things that have happened in the past.

Just let it go.

Go easy on yourself and just focus on moving forward and what comes next.

Remember that making mistakes is actually a good thing.

In fact, you know, perfection is often all in the journey.

If you do ever reach perfection, then you have to go a long

way in order to get there.

You have to endure lots of obstacles and lots of pressure, lots of failure

in order to reach desired perfection.

Okay, I think I have discussed, gone on, rambled about perfection for long enough.

So I do hope you found today helpful.

Don't be a stickler for the details unless you're an accountant.

Remember, a diamond is a chunk of coal that did well under pressure.

Thank you for listening.

Take care and goodbye.

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