How our friendship survives our opposing politics | Caitlin Quattromani and Lauran Arledge

翻译人员: Yan Gao 校对人员: Jiasi Hao

Caitlin Quattromani: The election of 2016 felt different.

凯特琳 · 奎塔罗马尼（CQ）： 2016 年的选举感觉不太一样。

Political conversations with our family and friends

与我们的家人和朋友进行的政治对话

uncovered a level of polarization

暴露出的两极分化的程度

that many of us had not previously experienced.

是我们很多人从未经历过的。

People who we always thought were reasonable and intelligent

我们一直认为理性聪慧的人

seemed like strangers.

好像变成了陌生人。

We said to ourselves, "How could you think that?

我们心里说：“你怎能那么想？

I thought you were smart."

我以为你很聪明呢。”

Lauran Arledge: Caitlin and I met in the summer of 2011,

劳伦 · 阿利奇（LA）： 我与凯特琳在 2011 年夏相遇。

and we bonded around being working moms

我们很合得来， 因我们同时身为在职妈妈，

and trying to keep our very energetic boys busy.

也在努力让我们 精力充沛的儿子们忙碌起来。

And we soon found out we had almost everything in common.

我们很快发现 彼此的共同之处不胜枚举。

From our love of Colorado to our love of sushi,

从对科罗拉多州的喜爱 到我们对寿司的热爱，

there wasn't much we didn't agree on.

几乎没有什么喜好不一致的地方。

We also discovered that we share a deep love of this country

我们还发现 对方也一样深爱这个国家

and feel a responsibility to be politically active.

并认为有责任积极参与政治。

But no one's perfect --

但是，没有人是完美的——

(Laughter)

（笑声）

and I soon found out two disappointing things about Caitlin.

我很快发现 凯特琳有两点让我失望。

First, she hates camping.

首先，她不喜欢野营。

CQ: I think camping is the worst.

CQ：我认为野营很糟糕。

LA: So there would not be any joint camping trips in our future.

LA：所以我们的未来 不会有任何机会一起去野营。

The second thing is that she's politically active all right --

第二件事就是， 她的确政治积极——

as a conservative.

却是一个保守派。

CQ: I may hate camping, but I love politics.

CQ：我可能讨厌露营， 但我热爱政治。

I listen to conservative talk radio just about every day,

我几乎每天都听保守派的谈话广播，

and I've volunteered for a few different conservative political campaigns.

而且我也给几个不同的 保守派政治竞选做过志愿者。

LA: And I'd say I'm a little to the left,

LA：而我会说—— 我有点儿左，

like all the way to the left.

就是那种左到底的左。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I've always been interested in politics.

我一直对政治感兴趣。

I was a political science major,

我是政治专业的，

and I worked as a community organizer and on a congressional campaign.

我当过社区组织者 也为国会选举工作过。

CQ: So as Lauran and I were getting to know each other,

CQ：随着我和劳伦加深相互了解

it was right in the middle of that 2012 presidential campaign,

那正值是 2012 年的总统大选期间。

and most of our early political conversations

我们之前的大部分政治对话

were really just based in jokes and pranks.

真的都只是笑话和恶作剧。

So as an example, I would change Lauran's computer screen saver

比如，我会把劳伦的电脑屏保

to a picture of Mitt Romney,

改成米特 · 罗姆尼的照片

or she would put an Obama campaign magnet on the back of my car.

而她会把奥巴马选举磁铁 粘在我车后面。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

LA: Car, not minivan.

LA：轿车，不是小客车。

CQ: But over time, those conversations grew more serious

CQ：但是随着时间的推移， 这些对话越来越严肃，

and really became a core of our friendship.

真的变成了我们友谊的核心。

And somewhere along the line,

然后有一天，

we decided we didn't want to have any topic be off limits for discussion,

我们决定即使有些话题 会把我们的友谊推到舒适区之外，

even if those topics pushed us way outside of our friendship comfort zone.

也不会让任何话题 成为我们之间不能讨论的。

LA: And so to most of us,

LA：对我们大多数人来说，

political conversations are a zero-sum game.

政治对话是一场零和游戏：

There's a winner and there's a loser.

一个赢家，一个输家。

We go for the attack and we spot a weakness in someone's argument.

我们进攻， 我们找别人论点中的弱点。

And here's the important part:

而这是一个重要的部分：

we tend to take every comment or opinion that's expressed

我们倾向于把 每一个发表的评论或意见

as a personal affront to our own values and beliefs.

当作对我们个人价值观和 信念的人身攻击。

But what if changed the way we think about these conversations?

但是，如果改变我们对 这些谈话的看法会怎样呢？

What if, in these heated moments,

如果在这些激烈的时刻，

we chose dialogue over debate?

我们选择对话而不是争辩呢？

When we engage in dialogue, we flip the script.

当我们进行对话时， 情况就大不相同了。

We replace our ego and our desire to win

我们用好奇、同情和学习欲望

with curiosity, empathy

取代自我价值感

and a desire to learn.

和获胜欲望，

Instead of coming from a place of judgment,

不再从评判的角度出发，

we are genuinely interested in the other person's experiences,

相反我们由衷感兴趣的是 对方的经历、

their values and their concerns.

他们的价值观和他们的担忧。

CQ: You make it sound so simple, Lauran.

CQ：你把它说得如此简单，劳伦。

But getting to that place of true dialogue is hard,

但是做到那样的真正对话太难了。

especially when we're talking about politics.

特别是当我们谈论政治的时候，

It is so easy to get emotionally fired up

对于我们热衷的问题，

about issues that we're passionate about,

情绪很容易激动起来。

and we can let our ego get in the way of truly hearing

我们自己的观点会阻碍

the other person's perspective.

真正听取他人的观点。

And in this crazy political climate we're in right now,

而在当前这个疯狂的政治环境下，

unfortunately, we're seeing an extreme result

很不幸，我们看到的是

of those heated political conversations,

那些激烈政治对话 带来的极端后果。

to the point where people are willing to walk away from their relationships.

激烈到人们愿意为之 结束一段关系。

In fact, Rasmussen released a poll earlier this year

事实上，拉斯穆森 今年早些时候发布的一项调查显示

that said 40 percent of people reported that the 2016 election

40％ 的人说 2016 年选举

negatively impacted a personal relationship,

对他们的个人关系产生了负面影响；

and the Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience tells us

《认知神经科学杂志》告诉我们

that people tend to feel their way to their beliefs

人们倾向于摸索得到自己的观点，

rather than using reasoning,

而非使用逻辑推理，

and that when reason and emotion collide,

而当理性和感性碰撞时，

it's emotion that invariably wins.

感性总是获胜。

So no wonder it's hard to talk about these issues.

难怪很难理性探讨这些问题。

LA: And look, we're just two regular friends

LA：你看， 我们只是两个普通朋友，

who happen to think very differently

碰巧对政治和政府 在我们生活中扮演的角色

about politics and the role that government should play in our lives.

有着非常不同的想法。

And I know we were all taught not to talk about politics

而且我知道我们都被教导说：

不要谈论政治，因为那不礼貌。

because it's not polite,

but we need to be able to talk about it,

但我们需要能够谈论政治，

because it's important to us and it's a part of who we are.

因为这对我们很重要 而且它是我们本质的一部分。

CQ: We have chosen to avoid political debate

CQ：我们选择避免政治辩论，

and instead engage in dialogue

而是进行对话

in order to maintain what we fondly call

以维持我们所戏称的

our bipartisan friendship.

两党友谊。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

LA: And this election and all of the craziness that has followed

LA：这次选举以及随之而来的疯狂

has given us several opportunities to practice this skill.

给了我们很多机会来练习这个技巧。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Let's start with January and the Women's March.

从一月和女权游行运动开始说吧。

At this point, you can probably guess which one of us participated.

到现在，你大概可以猜到 我俩谁去参加了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

CQ: Oh, the Women's March.

CQ：哦，女权游行运动。

I was annoyed and irritated that entire day,

那一整天我都因为两件事

really because of two things.

变得很烦躁和恼怒。

Number one, the name "Women's March."

第一，是“女权游行运动” 这个名字。

As a conservative woman,

作为保守派的一名女性，

the march's platform of issues didn't represent me,

这个问题的游行平台不代表我，

and that's OK,

那也没什么。

but hearing it talked about as this demonstration of sisterhood

但是听到它被说成

所有女性的姐妹情谊 和团结一致的表现，

and solidarity for all women

didn't ring true for me.

在我看来并非如此。

The other piece was the timing of the event,

另一件事， 就是事件发生的时间，

the fact that it was the day after the presidential inauguration.

那是新总统就职后的第二天。

It felt like we weren't even giving the new administration

这感觉我们甚至没给新政府任何机会

to actually do anything, good or bad,

去落实任何事情，无论好坏，

before people felt the need to demonstrate against it.

人们就觉得需要赶快去反对了。

LA: And under normal circumstances, I would agree with Caitlin.

LA：在正常情况下 我会同意凯特琳的说法。

I think an administration does deserve the benefit of the doubt.

我认为政府需要从质疑中有所收获。

But in this case, I was marching to show my concern

但这一次， 我参加游行以表达我的担忧：

that a man with such a poor track record with women and other groups

一个对女性和其他群体 有这样不良记录的人

had been elected as president.

被选为总统。

I had to be part of the collective voice

我必须成为集体声音的一部分，

that wanted to send a clear message to the new president

向新总统发出 一个明确的信息——

that we did not accept or condone

即我们不接受或宽恕

his behavior or rhetoric during the election.

他选举期间的行为或言论。

CQ: So I'm already feeling kind of aggravated,

CQ：我已经感觉到情况有点恶化了，

and then I see this Facebook from Lauran pop up in my social media feed.

然后马上在脸书的朋友推送里 就看到了劳伦的这条状态。

(Laughter)

Seeing Lauran's sons at the march and holding signs

（笑声）

看到劳伦的儿子们 在游行里，拿着标语牌

took it to a new level for me, and not in a good way,

对我来说这件事变严重了， 而且是往坏的方向升级。

because I know these boys,

因为我认识这些男孩，

I love these boys,

我喜欢这些男孩子，

and I didn't feel they were old enough

但我觉得他们的年龄

to understand what the march stood for.

还不足以理解 那场游行代表着什么。

I didn't understand why Lauran would choose

我不明白为什么劳伦会选择

to have them participate in that way,

让他们那样参与游行，

and I assumed it wasn't a choice that the boys made for themselves.

而且我假定这不是男孩们 自己做出的选择。

But I also know Lauran.

但是，我也了解劳伦。

You're an incredible mom

你是一个超棒的妈妈，

who would never exploit your boys in any way,

绝不会以任何方式 利用你的孩子。

so I had to stop and check myself.

所以我必须停下并审视自己。

I had a decision to make.

我需要做个决定。

I could take the easy way out

我可以采取简单的方法

and just choose not to say anything to her,

选择什么都不对她说，

and instead just kind of simmer in my frustration,

只是抓狂地憋着，

or I could ask her to learn more about her motivations.

或者我可以直接问她 从而更多地了解她的动机。

LA: And I shared with Caitlin

LA：我告诉凯特琳

that we actually started talking about the March

实际上在参加游行的几周前，

weeks before we participated.

我们就已经对其展开了讨论。

And my boys were curious as to why the event was being organized,

我的孩子们好奇 为什么会组织这个活动，

and this led to some very interesting family conversations.

这也引发了一系列 非常有趣的家庭对话。

We talked about how in this country, we have the right and the privilege

我们谈到在这个国家 我们有权利和特权

to demonstrate against something we don't agree with,

去表达我们对不赞成之事的反对，

and my husband shared with them why he thought it was so important

而我的丈夫与他们分享了

为什么他认为 男性加入女权游行运动是如此重要。

that men joined the Women's March.

But the most significant reason we marched as a family

但我们作为一个家庭参加游行的 最重要的一个理由是

is that it was a way for us to honor my parents' legacy.

这是对我父母传承的尊重。

They spent their careers

他们用尽自己的职业生涯

working to defend the rights of some of our most vulnerable citizens,

在捍卫我们最弱势公民的权利，

and they passed these values down to me and my brother,

他们把这些价值观 传递给了我和我的兄弟，

and we want to do the same with our sons.

之后我们也想将其 传递给我们的儿子们。

CQ: After talking to Lauran,

CQ：在和劳伦谈过之后，

I really understood not only why she felt it was so important to march,

我真的不仅明白了 为什么她觉得游行很重要，

but why she had her boys with her.

而且明白了为什么 她的儿子们与她一起参与了游行。

And frankly, my assumptions were wrong.

坦率地说， 我之前的假设是错误的。

It was the boys who wanted to march

在他们全家讨论这个问题之后，

after they talked about the issues as a family.

是男孩子们自己想要参加游行。

But what's most important about this example

但是这个例子最重要的是

is to think about the alternative.

去思考另一种可能性。

Had Lauran and I not talked about it,

如果劳伦和我没有就这件事谈开，

I would have been annoyed with her,

我就会一直感觉她很令人烦扰，

and it could have resulted in an undercurrent of disrespect

而且可能会导致我们友谊之中

in our friendship.

一股不尊重的暗涌。

But by asking Lauran questions, it allowed us to use dialogue

但是通过询问劳伦，

我们能利用对话实现真正的理解。

to get to a place of true understanding.

Now, to be clear,

不过我要说清楚，

our conversation didn't really change my mind about how I felt about the March,

我们的谈话并没有真正改变 我对这场游行的看法，

but it absolutely changed my thinking around why she brought her boys with her.

但谈话绝对完全改变了我对 她为什么带着孩子们去的想法。

And for both of us, that dialogue allowed us to understand

而对于我们俩来说，

那对话让我们明白了 彼此对女权游行运动的看法，

each other's perspective about the Women's March

even though we disagreed.

即使观点并不统一。

LA: The second topic that challenged our ability to engage in dialogue

LA：挑战我们 参与对话能力的第二件事

was around my need to understand

是我想要理解对于 凯特琳怎么能投票给特朗普

how Caitlin could vote for Trump.

这件事的需求。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Caitlin is a successful professional woman

凯特琳是一位成功的职业女性，

who is deeply caring and compassionate,

深切关怀他人并富有同情心。

and the Caitlin I know

我所认识的凯特琳

would never excuse any man from talking about women

绝不会原谅 像特朗普在竞选中

the way that Trump did during the campaign.

那样谈论女性的任何人。

It was hard for me to reconcile these two things in my mind.

在我脑海中 很难调和这两件事情，

How could you overlook the things that were said?

你怎么能对他过说的话 视而不见？

CQ: So I'm guessing I may not be the only one here that thought

CQ：所以我想不只是我一个人

we didn't have the best choices for the presidential election last year.

认为去年总统选举不存在最佳选择。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

The Republican candidate who I did support didn't make it out of the primary,

我所支持的共和党候选人 在初选就被淘汰了，

so when it came time to vote, I had a decision to make.

所以到了投票的时候， 我必须做出选择。

And you're right, there were some terrible things

你没错， 在特朗普竞选期间

that came out during the Trump campaign,

不少很糟糕的事情都被爆出来，

so much so that I almost decided to just abstain

以至于我几乎决定就投弃权票，

rather than voting for president,

就不选总统了。

something I had never even considered doing before.

这是我以前从未考虑过的事情。

But ultimately, I did vote for Donald Trump,

但是最终，我确实 投了唐纳德 · 特朗普。

and for me it was really a vote for party over person,

对我来说，这选择是 针对党派的，而非个人，

especially recognizing how important that presidential pick is

尤其是认识到总统选举

on influencing our judicial branch.

对影响我们司法部门的重要性。

But I shared with Lauran it was a decision I really wrestled with,

但是我对劳伦说了 这个决定真的让我非常纠结，

and not one that I made lightly.

它不是我轻易就做出的决定。

LA: And so after our conversation, I was struck by a few things.

LA：所以在我们谈过之后， 我对几件事感到震惊。

First, I had fallen victim to my own confirmation bias.

首先，我成了确认偏误的受害者。

Because of my strong feelings about Trump,

由于我对特朗普的强烈感受，

I had given all Trump voters the same attributes,

我赋予所有特朗普选民相同的属性，

and none of them forgiving.

而且他们中一个都不能原谅。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But knowing Caitlin, I started to ask questions.

但是因为了解凯特琳， 我开始有疑问。

What were Trump voters really concerned about?

特朗普的选民真正关心的是什么？

Under all the divisive language, what was really going on?

在那么多分裂语言的背后 究竟发生了什么？

What could we learn about ourselves and our country

从这个不太可能发生的事件中

from this unlikely event?

关于自己和自己的国家， 我们学到了什么？

I also learned that we shared a deep disappointment in this election,

我还了解到我们全都 对这次选举感到非常失望，

and that we have growing concerns about our two-party political system.

并且对我们的两党政治制度 越来越担忧。

But the most important thing about this conversation

但关于这次谈话，

is that it happened at all.

最重要的是：它发生了。

Without an open and honest dialogue between the two of us,

如果没有我们两人之间 坦率诚恳的对话，

this election would have been the elephant in the room

这次选举就会成为未来四年

for the next four years, pun intended.

房间里的大象。 （大家都知道但选择避而不谈的问题）

(Laughter)

（笑声）

CQ: So, look --

CQ：所以，你看 ——

(Applause)

（掌声）

So, look -- we know it takes work to get past the difficult,

你看，我们知道需要付出努力，

frustrating and sometimes emotional parts

克服随之而来的困难、沮丧， 有时候甚至是很情绪化的部分，

of having discussions about issues like the Women's March

例如在讨论女权游行运动之类问题时，

or why your friend may have voted for a candidate that you can't stand.

或者讨论你的朋友为什么会投票给 让你无法忍受的候选人时。

But we need to have these conversations.

但是我们需要进行这些对话。

Our ability to move past political debate

我们不再政治辩论

into true dialogue

而是进行真正对话的能力

is a critical skill we should all be focused on right now,

是现在大家都该关注的重要技能，

especially with the people that we care about the most.

特别是与我们最关心的人之间。

LA: And it's not just as adults that we need to bottle this behavior.

LA：不只是作为成年人 要养成这种行为习惯，

It's critical that we do it for our children as well.

对于我们的孩子来说 这也是至关重要的。

My sons were inundated with this election.

我的儿子们 完全被这次选举包围。

We were listening to the news in the morning,

我们早上听新闻，

and they were having conversations with their friends at school.

他们在学校里和朋友们也会聊。

I was concerned that they were picking up so much polarizing misinformation,

我担心他们会吸收 很多极端化的错误信息，

and they were growing really fearful of a Trump presidency.

也担心他们会变得恐惧 特朗普的统治。

Then one day, after the election, I was taking my sons to school,

大选之后， 有一天我送儿子们上学，

and my younger son, completely out of the blue,

我的小儿子，带着彻底的失望，

said, "Mom, we don't know anybody who voted for Trump, right?"

说：“妈妈，我们认识的人里 没有投给特朗普的，对吧？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I paused and I took a deep breath.

我顿了一下，深吸一口气。

"Yes, we do."

“有的。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"The Quattromanis."

“是奎塔罗马尼家的人。”

And his response was so great.

他的回答太棒了——

He kind of got this confused look on his face, and he said ...

他脸上带着点困惑，说：

"But we love them."

“但我们爱他们。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I answered, "Yes, we do."

我回答说：“是的，我们爱他们。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And then he said, "Why would they vote for him?"

然后他说：“他们为什么要投给他呢？”

And I remember stopping and thinking

我记得我停下来想：

that it was really important how I answered this question.

如何回答这个问题很重要。

Somehow, I had to honor our own family values

不管怎样，我必须 尊重自己的家庭观念，

and show respect for our friends.

同时也要尊重朋友。

So I finally said,

所以我最后说：

"They think that's the right direction for this country."

“他们认为，对于这个国家 那是正确的方向。”

And before I had even gotten the whole sentence out,

还没等我把整句话说完，

he had moved on to the soccer game he was going to play at recess.

他已经开始说起 课间休息时的足球比赛了。

CQ: So life with boys.

CQ：和男孩们的生活啊。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So what Lauran and I have discovered through our bipartisan friendship

劳伦和我通过我们两党友谊发现的是

is the possibility that lives in dialogue.

对话中的可能性。

We have chosen to be genuinely curious

我们选择做到 对彼此的想法和观点

about each other's ideas and perspectives

保持真正的好奇——

and to be willing to listen to one another even when we disagree.

即使不一致，也愿意相互倾听。

And by putting aside our ego and our preconceived ideas,

抛开我们的自我和先入为主的想法，

we've opened ourselves up to limitless learning.

我们敞开心扉，不断学习。

And perhaps most importantly for our relationship,

也许对我们的关系来说， 最为重要的是

we have made the commitment to each other

我们相互承诺——

that our friendship is way more important

比起谁对谁错， 或是谁赢了一场政治对话，

than either of us being right or winning a conversation about politics.

我们之间的友谊要重要得多。

So today, we're asking you to have a conversation.

所以今天， 我们请你也进行一场谈话。

Talk to someone outside of your political party

与可能挑战你想法的

who might challenge your thinking.

并在你支持的政党之外的人 进行交谈。

Make an effort to engage with someone

努力和某个你经常避免与其 进行政治对话的人

with whom you might typically avoid a political conversation.

搭建联系。

But remember, the goal isn't to win,

但要记住， 目标不是要赢谁，

the goal is to listen and to understand

而是要倾听、理解，

and to be open to learning something new.

以及愿意学习新事物。

LA: So let's go back to election night.

LA：让我们回到选举之夜。

As the polls were closing

随着民意调查的结束，

and it became clear that Trump was going to be our new president,

显然特朗普即将成为 我们的新总统，

I was devastated.

我感到非常沮丧，

I was sad, I was confused,

我很伤心，也很困惑。

and I'll be honest -- I was angry.

说实话——我很生气。

And then just before midnight,

然后，就在午夜之前，

I received this text message from Caitlin.

我收到了凯特琳发来的短信：

[I know this is a hard night for you guys.

[ 我知道这对你们来说 是一个艰难的夜晚。

We are thinking of you. Love you.]

我们在想你。爱你。]

And where there so easy could have been weeks or months of awkwardness

当时的情况很容易变成 数周或数月的尴尬，

and unspoken hostility, there was this --

以及无言的敌意 可实际发生的是——

an offering of empathy rooted in friendship.

从友谊中萌发的同情。

And I knew, in that moment, that we would make it through this.

在那一刻，我知道 我们会迈过这道坎。

CQ: So we must find a way to engage in meaningful conversations

CQ：所以我们必须找到一种方法 来进行有意义的对话，

that are going to move us forward as a nation,

这将使我们作为一个国家 共同前进，

and we can no longer wait

我们不能再只是继续等待

for our elected officials to elevate our national discourse.

当选官员来提上我们的国家进程。

LA: The challenges ahead are going to require all of us

LA：未来的挑战 将要求我们所有人

to participate in a deeper and more meaningful way ...

都以更深入且更有意义的方式参与。

and it starts with each one of us

它开始于我们每个人

building connection through dialogue --

通过对话建立联系——

in our relationships, our communities

在我们的个人关系中， 我们的社区中，

and as a country.

以及在整个国家中。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）