Poetry, music and identity (with English subtitles) | Jorge Drexler | TED

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

I'm going to tell you the story of a song.

Ispričaću vam priču o jednoj pesmi.

I was in Madrid one night in 2002

Bio sam u Madridu jedne noći, godine 2002.

with my teacher and friend Joaquín Sabina,

sa mojim učiteljem i prijateljem Hoakinom Sabinom,

when he said he had something to give me.

kad mi je rekao kako ima nešto da mi da.

He said,

Rekao mi je:

"Jorge, I have some lines that you need to put into a song.

"Horhe, imam neke stihove na koje ti treba da napišeš pesmu.

Take these down, take these down."

Zapiši ih. Zapiši ih."

Pretražio sam po stolu,

I looked on the table but all I found was a circular coaster,

a jedino što sam našao su bili podmetači za čaše,

on which I wrote the lines my teacher dictated.

na njima sam zapisao stihove koje mi je maestro izdiktirao.

They were four lines that went like this:

Četiri stiha koja su glasila:

"I am a Jewish Moor living among Christians

"Ja mavarski Jevrejin sam što međ' hrišćanima živi,

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are."

koji bog je moj, pak, ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi."

Those lines really made an impression on me.

Ovi stihovi su me zaista poprilično dirnuli.

I said, "What beautiful lyrics, Joaquín. Did you write them?"

Upitao sam: "Kako lepi stihovi, Hoakine, jesu li tvoji?"

Rekao mi je: "Ne."

He said no, they were by another composer named Chicho Sánchez Ferlosio,

Rekao mi je da su jednog drugog kompozitora

koji se zvao Čičo Sančez Ferlosio,

who was less known than Joaquín, but also a great poet.

koji je bio manje poznat od Hoakina, ali je takođe veoma značajan.

These lines came to me at a time

Ti stihovi su stigli baš kao nešto što sam već neko vreme želeo da kažem,

where I had been wanting to express something for a while,

ali nisam znao kako.

but didn't quite know how.

I was getting up to leave and go home to write,

Spremao sam se da krenem, kako bih stigao kod kuće da pišem,

when Joaquín stopped me and said, "Hang on, hang on,"

kad me je Hoakin zaustavio i rekao: "Čekaj, čekaj",

and presented me with this challenge:

i zadao mi je sledeći izazov:

"Write the stanzas for this song

"Napiši strofe za ovu pesmu

u obliku decime."

in Décimas."

Sad, u tom momentu svog postojanja,

Now, at this point in my life,

I still wasn't completely sure what Décimas were,

još uvek mi nije bilo najjasnije šta su to decime,

but I was too embarrassed to tell my teacher I didn't know.

ali me je bilo strašno sramota da kažem maestru da ne znam.

So I put on my best "Yeah, I totally understand" face,

Te sam napravio izraz lica kao da razumem i krenuo sam kući

and went home to look up what Décimas were.

kako bih pokušao da saznam šta su to decime.

Saznao sam da je decima tip strofe

I learned that a Décima is a type of verse

that only exists in Spanish,

koji jedino postoji na španskom jeziku,

da ima deset stihova.

and that it has 10 lines.

It's very, very complex --

Veoma je složena, veoma, veoma složena.

perhaps the most complex style of stanza that we have in Spanish.

Možda i najsloženija od svih koje imamo u našem jeziku,

It also has a very concrete date of origin,

koja, uz to, ima konkretan datum nastanka,

što je retkost kod poezije.

which is very rare for a style of stanza.

The Décima was invented in Spain in 1591,

Decimu je izmislio u Španiji 1591.

by a guy named Vicente Espinel, a musician and poet from Málaga.

gospodin koji se zvao Visente Espinel,

koji je bio muzičar i pesnik iz Malage.

And listen to this coincidence: he was the same guy

Zamislite i to - koja slučajnost - isti taj čovek

who added the sixth string

je stavio šestu žicu na nešto što će kasnije postati španska gitara.

to what would later be called the Spanish guitar.

This string right here --

Ova žica ovde,

it's called the "bordona."

nazvana "bordona".

From Spain, the Décima, with its 10 lines,

Iz Španije, decima, sa svojih deset stihova,

stiže do Amerike, baš kao i španska gitara,

crosses over to America, just like the Spanish guitar,

but in contrast to the Décima,

međutim razlika je u tome

the Spanish guitar continues to live today

što je španska gitara i dan danas živa

on both sides of the Atlantic.

s obe strane Atlantika.

But the Décima, in Spain, its birthplace,

Međutim, decima, na mestu na kom je nastala, u Španiji,

disappeared; it died out.

nestala je, izumrla je.

It died out about 200 years ago,

Već nekoliko vekova se ne praktikuje tu,

and yet in Latin America, from Mexico to Chile,

ali, nasuprot tome, u Latinskoj Americi od Meksika do Čilea,

all our countries maintain some form of the Décima

u svim našim krajevima se zadržao neki tip decime

in our popular traditions.

u našoj narodnoj tradiciji.

In each place, they've given it a different name,

U svim krajevima su je drugačije nazvali,

and set it to different music.

muzika je različita.

It has a lot of different names -- more than 20 in total on the continent.

Ima razna imena, više od 20 na čitavom kontinentu.

In Mexico, for example, it's called the "Son Jarocho,"

Nazivaju je, na primer: "Son Jarocho" u Meksiku,

"Canto de mejorana" in Panama;

"Canto de mejorana" u Panami,

"Galerón" in Venezuela;

"Galerón" u Venecueli,

"Payada" in Uruguay and Argentina;

"Payada" u Urugvaju i Argentini,

"Repentismo" in Cuba.

"Repentismo" na Kubi.

In Peru, they call it the Peruvian Décima,

U Peruu, na primer, nazivaju je "peruanskom decimom".

because the Décima becomes so integrated into our traditions,

Iz razloga što je decima tako stopljena sa našim tradicijama,

ako bi neko upitao, svi oni bi bili potpuno ubeđeni

that if someone asks, people from each place are completely convinced

that the Décima was invented in their country.

da su baš u njihovim državama izmislili decimu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

It's also got a really surprising feature,

Osim toga, ima nešto krajnje iznenađujuće.

A to je, uprkos tome što se nezavisno razvijala

which is that despite the fact that it developed independently

in each of the different countries,

u svakoj od tih zemalja,

it maintains even today, 400 years after its creation,

zadržala je do dana današnjeg, više od 400 godina nakon nastanka,

exactly the same rhyme, syllable and line structure --

identičnu strukturu rime, slogova i stihova.

the same structure Vicente Espinel gave it during the Spanish Baroque period.

Istu strukturu koju joj je podario Visente Espinel

u španskom baroku.

Here's the structure --

Ovako glasi struktura -

I'll give you the basic idea and then later you can look online

objasniću vam ukratko,

pa posle možete poći na internet, i sami videti kako ide -

and learn more about it.

The Décima is ten lines long; each line has eight syllables.

ima deset stihova sa po osam slogova.

The first line rhymes with the fourth and the fifth;

Prvi stih se rimuje sa četvrtim i petim,

the second line, with the third;

drugi sa trećim,

šesti sa sedmim i sa desetim,

the sixth line, with the seventh and the tenth;

and the eighth line rhymes with the ninth.

a osmi sa devetim.

It's a bit complicated, to be honest.

Zaista je malo komplikovana.

I ja - zamislite me kako pokušavam da napišem decimu.

And me -- imagine me, trying to write in Décimas.

But it's not as complicated as it seems.

Ali nije toliko složena, koliko se čini.

Osim toga, neverovatno je da je preživela sa tom istom strukturom

Plus, it's amazing that it's survived with the same structure

for more than four centuries.

više od četiri veka.

It's not that complicated, because it has an impressive musicality to it,

Nije toliko složena jer ima fantastičnu muzikalnost.

a type of musicality

Ima tip muzikalnosti

that's very hard to describe technically.

koga je veoma teško tehnički objasniti.

Radije bih da je čujete.

I prefer that you listen to it.

So I'm going to recite a Décima,

Stoga ću da vam izrecitujem jednu decimu.

one of the Décimas that I wrote for this song.

Na primer, jednu od decima koje sam napisao za ovu pesmu.

Zato ću da vas zamolim

I'm going to ask that you concentrate just on the musicality of the rhymes.

da se skoncentrišete samo na muziku rima.

I vi što imate slušalice,

For those of you with headphones on --

vidim da neki od vas slušaju simultani prevod,

I see that some of you are listening to the translation --

please take them off for a minute.

skinite ih za kratko.

(English) Take your headphones off, it you have them.

(Engeski) Skinite slušalice, ako ih imate.

(English) Forget about the meaning of the words for a few seconds,

(Engleski) Zaboravite nakratko na značenje reči

(English) and then you'll put them back.

(Engleski) i kasnije ih ponovo stavite.

(English) Forget about the structure.

(Španski) Zaboravite na strukturu i na sve.

(Spanish) Forget about the structure.

(Engleski) Radi se o koreografiji zvuka decime.

(English) And just ... it's all about the choreography of sound of the Décima.

(Spanish) A choreography of sound.

Koreografija zvuka. Posmatrajte to tako.

(Sings in Spanish) "There is not one death that does not cause me pain,

(Peva) "Svaka smrt zaboli mene pobedničke strane nema.

Osim bola ničeg nema i života koji vene.

there are no winners,

here’s nothing but suffering and another life blown away.

War is a terrible school no matter what the disguise,

Rđave sve su škole ratne ma kakvu krinku da stave,

forgive me for not enlisting under any flag,

ispod nijedne zastave, žalim, da stanem ne želim

any daydream is worth more than a sad piece of cloth."

sve himere više cenim od tkanine bedne kakve."

Ovo je decima.

That's a Décima.

(Engleski) Možete ponovo da stavite slušalice.

(English) You can put your headphones back on.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

(English) Thank you.

(Engleski) Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

I also applaud Vicente Espinel, because here it is 426 years later,

I ja sam aplaudirao Visentu Espinelu,

jer je 426 godina ostala identična u svim krajevima.

and the Décima lives on everywhere

in its original state.

Napisao sam tri nalik ovoj, upravo sam vam izveo drugu

I wrote three like that one; you just heard the second.

jer sam u prvoj primenjivao tek stečeno znanje

I wrote the first one having only recently learned how,

and it has some errors in terms of meter,

i, iskreno, ima neke greške u metrici,

stoga ne služi kao odgovarajući primer.

so it's not presentable in its current state.

But the one I sang was good, more or less.

Ali ova je bila, manje-više, dobra.

So: What was it about?

Dakle, o čemu je govorila?

What was the meaning behind those lines?

Šta je sadržaj tih decima?

I had just returned from doing a concert in Israel,

Upravo sam se vratio iz Izraela gde sam imao koncert

i izuzetno me je dirnuo problem koji mi je veoma, veoma blizak,

and I was very emotional over a problem that hits really close to home,

which is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

a to je izraelsko-palestinski rat.

Objasniću vam: moj otac je iz jevrejske porodice,

I'll explain: my dad's family is Jewish,

moja majka potiče iz nereligiozne hrišćanske porodice.

and my mom's family are non-practicing Christians.

Odrastao sam u domu u kom su te dve tradicije

I was raised in a home where the two traditions lived together

zajedno postojale više-manje harmonično.

more or less in harmony.

It wasn't unusual to see my Jewish grandpa dressed as Santa Claus, for example,

Nije bilo čudno videti mog jevrejskog dedu u odelu Deda Mraza, na primer

or to see my non-Jewish grandpa at the synagogue wearing his kippah,

ili mog nejevrejskog dedu u sinagogi sa kipom,

at family celebrations, wearing the same expression that I probably had

na porodičnim zabavama

sa istim izrazom lica koji sam imao ja

when Sabina told me --

kad mi je Sabina rekao da -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

that he had some Décima lines for me.

da ima za mene neke stihove za decimu.

Za nekoga ko je odrastao ovako,

For someone raised in that kind of environment,

it's especially painful to see the difficulty the opposing parties have

naročito je bolno videti poteškoće

koje imaju obe strane konflikta

da se stave, bar nakratko, u tuđu kožu.

in putting themselves in the other side's shoes even for a moment.

Dakle, o tome sam pisao.

So that's what I wrote about.

I already had the lyrics,

Već sam imao reči,

I had the form -- the Décima -- and the content.

imao sam oblik, to jest decimu, i sadržaj.

Dakle, trebalo je da napišem muziku.

I needed to write the music.

Daću vam i kontekst.

I'll give you some context.

I had only recently moved from Uruguay, where I'm from, to Spain.

Tek sam se bio preselio

iz Urugvaja, odakle potičem, u Španiju.

And I was feeling very raw with nostalgia,

I mučila me je sveža nostalgija, zaista,

kao i mnoge od vas koji ste daleko od svojih domova.

like many of you here, who are away from home.

I želeo sam da moja pesma bude izrazito urugvajska,

And I wanted my song to be very, very Uruguayan,

ali baš izrazito.

the most Uruguayan type of song there is -- the milonga.

Najurugvajskiji žanr se naziva milonga.

So now, I had been studying the Décima, and after finding out

Sada, očito, počeo sam da izučavam decimu

i, iako sam video da je svi

that everyone tried to claim the Décima as their own,

prisvajaju kao svoju, svi misle da su je izmislili,

that it was invented in their country,

zapitao sam se:

it made me wonder:

šta znači to kad kažemo da je milonga urugvajska?

What does it mean when we say the milonga is Uruguayan?

Zamislite, milonga ima ritmički obrazac

The milonga has a rhythmic pattern that we musicians call 3-3-2.

koji mi muzičari nazvamo 3-3-2.

(Counts out the beats) One two three, one two three, one two.

(Taktira) Jedan-dva-tri, jedan-dva-tri, jedan-dva.

And it has a characteristic emphasis.

Ima karakteristično naglašavanje.

(Sings)

(Peva)

But this characteristic rhythm pattern

Ali ovaj karakteristični ritmički obrazac

comes from Africa.

potiče iz Afrike.

In the ninth century you could find it in the brothels of Persia,

U IX veku ste ga mogli sresti u persijskim bordelima,

and in the thirteenth,

a u XIII

in Spain, from where, five centuries later,

u Španiji, odakle je pet vekova kasnije

stigao u Ameriku sa afričkim robovima.

it would cross over to America with the African slaves.

Meanwhile, in the Balkans, it encounters the Roma scale --

Dok se na Balkanu susreo sa ciganskom lestvicom -

(Sings)

(Peva)

which in part, gives birth to klezmer music,

a to je delom izrodilo klezmersku muziku,

koju su ukrajinski jevrejski imigranti

which Ukrainian Jewish immigrants bring to Brooklyn, New York.

doneli u Bruklin, Njujork.

They sing it in their banquet halls.

Pevali su je u salama za zabave.

(Sings "Hava Nagila")

(Peva "Hava Nagila")

And their neighbor, an Argentine kid of Italian origin

A njihov komšija, klinac iz Argentine, italijanskog porekla,

named Astor Piazzolla,

po imenu Astor Pjacola,

hears it,

čuo je to,

assimilates it

primenio

and transforms the tango of the second half of the 20th century

i preoblikovao tango iz druge polovine XX veka svojim...

with his ...

(Taktira) Jedan-dva-tri, jedan-dva-tri, jedan-dva.

(Counts out the beats) One two three, one two three, one two.

(Sings "Adios Nonino")

(Peva "Adios Nonino")

Takođe je to svirao na svom bandoneonu, nemačkom instrumentu iz XIX veka

He also played it on his bandoneon, a 19th-century German instrument

created for churches that couldn't afford to buy organs,

koji je napravljen za crkve koje nisu mogle da priušte orgulje

and that ends up, incredibly, in Río de la Plata,

i koji je, neverovatno, završio u Rio de la Plati

forming the very essence of the tango and the milonga,

postavši od suštinskog značaja za tango i milongu,

in the very same way another instrument just as important as the bandoneon did:

isto kao drugi instrument, podjednako važan kao bandeon,

the Spanish guitar.

španska gitara.

(Aplauz)

(Applause)

To which, by the way, Vicente Espinel, in the 16th century,

Kojoj je, zapravo, Visente Espinel u XVI veku

dodao šestu žicu.

added a sixth string.

It's amazing how all these things are coming full circle.

Zamislite koliko je krugova zatvoreno.

What have I learned in these 15 years since the song was born

Šta sam naučio u ovih 15 godina otkad se rodila pesma,

from going all over the world with four lines written on a coaster

prelazeći čitav svet s ova četiri stiha koje sam zapisao na podmetačima

from a bar in Madrid?

u jednom baru u Madridu?

That Décimas,

Decime,

the milonga,

milonga,

songs, people --

pesme, ljudi:

the closer you get to them,

što ih podrobnije poznajete,

the more complex their identity becomes,

to im složeniji identiteti bivaju,

and the more nuances and details appear.

iznijansiraniji, detaljniji.

I learned that identity is infinitely dense,

Shvatio sam da je identitet beskonačno gust,

like an infinite series of real numbers,

poput beskonačnog niza realnih brojeva,

and that even if you get very close

da čak i kad im se približite

i zumirate,

and zoom in,

it never ends.

nikad se ne okončavaju.

Before I sing you a song and say goodbye,

Dozvolite mi da pre nego što otpevam pesmu i oprostim se

da vam ispričam poslednju anegdotu.

allow me to tell you one last story.

Not long ago, we were in Mexico after a concert.

Nedavno smo bili u Meksiku i nakon jednog od koncerata,

And since the concert promoters know me,

kako me promoteri koncerta poznaju,

they knew I was a Décima freak and that everywhere I go I ask about it,

znaju da sam lud za decimama

i da se svuda kuda idem raspitujem za njih,

insistiram da čujem autore decima,

insisting on hearing Décima artists.

So they organized a son jarocho show for me at their house.

pa su organizovali u svom domu koncert u stilu son haroča.

Ako se sećate, son haročo je vid pesničkog oblika

If you recall, the son jarocho is one of the styles of music

that uses Décimas in its verses.

koji koristi decimu u svojim strofama.

When these amazing musicians finished playing

Kada su sjajni muzičari prestali da sviraju -

what is for me, something amazing, which is the son jarocho,

meni je son haročo nešto predivno -

završili su svirku i ja sam bio...

they finished playing and were ...

I went up to greet them, really excited,

Krenuo sam da ih pozdravim, dirnut,

getting ready to thank them for their gift of music,

hteo sam da se zahvalim muzičarima na poklonu,

and this young kid says to me --

i jedan veoma mlad dečko mi je rekao -

and he says it with the best of intentions -- he says,

i rekao mi je to s najboljom namerom - rekao je:

"We're very proud, sir, to be keeping alive the purest origins

"Mi smo, gospodine, veoma ponosni

jer održavamo u životu najčistije poreklo

of our Mexican identity."

našeg meksičkog identiteta."

And to tell you the truth, I didn't really know what to say.

I, iskreno, nisam znao šta da kažem.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I stood there looking at him. I gave him a hug and left, but ...

Stajao sam, posmatrajući ga, zagrlio ga i otišao, ali...

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But he was right, too, though. Right?

Jer bio je u pravu, zar ne?

In reality, the Décima is its origin, but at the same time,

U stvarnosti, decima potiče odatle, ali istovremeno,

just like in the milonga and in the Décima,

isto kao što unutar milonge i unutar decime

nalazimo korenje mnogih kultura iz raznih krajeva, kao što mi je rekao.

are the roots of many more cultures from all over the place, like he said.

Kasnije, kad sam stigao u hotel, razmišljao sam,

Later, when I got back to the hotel, I thought about it for a while.

And I thought:

i rekao:

things only look pure

stvari su jedino čiste, ako ih posmatrate iz daleka.

if you look at them from far away.

Veoma je važno poznavati naše poreklo,

It's very important to know about our roots,

to know where we come from, to understand our history.

znati odakle potičemo, poznavati našu istoriju,

But at the same time, as important as knowing where we're from,

ali istovremeno je podjednako važno, kao i znati odakle potičemo,

is understanding that deep down,

razumeti da svi, u suštini,

potičemo niotkuda

we're not completely from one place,

and a little from everywhere.

i pomalo odsvuda.

Thank you very much.

Mnogo vam hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

This is "The milonga of the Jewish Moor."

Ovo je "Milonga mavarskog Jevrejina".

(Muzika)

(Music)

(Sings)

(Pevanje)

For every wall a lament in Jerusalem the golden

Za svaki zid tugovanka u zlatnom Jerusalimu

and 1000 wasted lives for every commandment.

i sto bića što nestanu zbog te zapovesti svake.

I am dust in your wind and although I bleed through your wound,

Tvog sam vetra vlati tanke, mada krv sam ti iz rane,

a svaka ljubljena stena moju duboku ljubav ima,

and every beloved stone has my deepest affection,

there is not a stone in the world worth more than a human life.

kamena na svetu nema da vrednost bića u nj stane.

I am a Jewish Moor who lives among Christians

Ja mavarski Jevrejin sam što međ' hrišćanima živi

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi.

There is not one death that does not cause me pain, there are no winners

Svaka smrt zaboli mene, pobedničke strane nema.

Osim bola ničeg nema i života da uvene.

there's nothing but suffering and another life blown away.

War is a terrible school no matter what the disguise,

Rđave sve su škole ratne, ma kakvu krinku da stave,

forgive me for not enlisting under any flag,

ispod nijedne zastave, žalim, da stanem ne želim,

any daydream is worth more than a sad piece of cloth.

sve himere više cenim od tkanine bedne kakve.

Ja mavarski Jevrejin sam što međ' hrišćanima živi

I am a Jewish Moor who lives among Christians

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi.

And nobody has my permission for killing in my name,

I ne odobrih nikom to da ubija u ime moje,

čovek ništa do čovek nije, boga da ima, hteo bi isto.

a man is but a man and if there is a God, this was his wish,

the very ground I tread will live on, once I am gone

Tlo koje noga gazi to, nakon mene tu će biti;

on my way to oblivion, and all doctrines will suffer the same fate,

dok hitam ka prolaznosti, neprolaznih doktrina nema;

a svako je pleme ubeđeno da je pleme odabrano.

and there is not one nation that has not proclaimed itself

the chosen people.

I am a Jewish Moor who lives among Christians

Ja mavarski Jevrejin sam što međ' hrišćanima živi

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi

koji bog je, pak, moj ne znam, niti ko mi je brat pravi.

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are.

I am a Jewish Moor who lives among Christians

Ja mavarski Jevrejin sam što međ' hrišćanima živi.

(Aplauz)

(Applause)

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)