How digital DNA could help you make better health choices | Jun Wang

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 易帆 余

Today I'm here, actually, to pose you a question.

今天我來這裡其實 是要問各位一個問題。

What is life?

生命是什麼？

It has been really puzzling me for more than 25 years,

這個問題困惑了我 25 年，

and will probably continue doing so for the next 25 years.

可能在接下來的 25 年 繼續困惑著我。

This is the thesis I did when I was still in undergraduate school.

這是我在大學時做的論文。

While my colleagues still treated computers as big calculators,

當我的同學仍然把電腦 視為是大型計算機時，

I started to teach computers to learn.

我就開始教電腦學習了。

I built digital lady beetles

我打造了數位瓢蟲，

and tried to learn from real lady beetles, just to do one thing:

試圖向真實的瓢蟲學習， 讓它們只做一件事：

search for food.

尋找食物。

And after very simple neural network --

經過了非常簡單的神經網路──

genetic algorithms and so on --

基因演算法等等──

look at the pattern.

看這個模型，

They're almost identical to real life.

它們幾乎和真實的生命一模一樣。

A very striking learning experience for a twenty-year-old.

對一個 20 歲的小伙子來說 這是很驚人的學習經驗。

Life is a learning program.

生命本身就是一個學習程式。

When you look at all of this wonderful world,

這個大千世界，

every species has its own learning program.

每個物種都有自己的學習程式。

The learning program is genome,

這學習程式就是基因組，

and the code of that program is DNA.

程式碼就是 DNA。

The different genomes of each species represent different survival strategies.

每個物種的不同基因組 代表著不同的生存策略。

They represent hundreds of millions of years of evolution.

代表著數億年的進化演變，

The interaction between every species' ancestor

記錄了每個物種的祖先

and the environment.

與環境之間的互動。

I was really fascinated about the world,

我完全迷上了這個世界，

about the DNA,

迷上了 DNA，

about, you know, the language of life,

迷上了，你知道的，生命的語言，

the program of learning.

學習的程式。

So I decided to co-found the institute to read them.

所以我決定找人共同創辦一個 讀取基因組的機構。

I read many of them.

我讀了很多基因組。

We probably read more than half of the prior animal genomes in the world.

我們可能解讀了 世界上超過一半的動物基因組。

I mean, up to date.

我是指，與時俱進。

We did learn a lot.

我們學到了很多。

We did sequence, also, one species many, many times ...

我們對一個物種進行了 多次基因定序，做了許多次……

human genome.

即人類基因組。

We sequenced the first Asian.

我們完成了第一個 亞洲人基因組的定序。

I sequenced it myself many, many times,

剛好利用平台的優勢，

just to take advantage of that platform.

我對自己的基因也進行了多次定序。

Look at all those repeating base pairs:

看著所有那些重覆的鹼基對：

ATCG.

ATCG。 （註：四種 DNA 鹼基）

You don't understand anything there.

你幾乎無法從中讀懂任何含義。

But look at that one base pair.

但看看這一組鹼基對。

Those five letters, the AGGAA.

AGGAA，這五個字母。

These five SNPs represent a very specific haplotype

這五個 SNP（單核苷酸多態性） 代表了一種非常特別的單倍型，

in the Tibetan population

它們是藏族人的身體中

around the gene called EPAS1.

一種叫做 EPAS1 的基因。

That gene has been proved --

這個基因已被證明是──

it's highly selective --

高度選擇性的結果──

it's the most significant signature of positive selection of Tibetans

這是藏族人對高海拔適應性 進行正向選擇的重要指標。

for the higher altitude adaptation.

You know what?

你知道嗎？

These five SNPs were the result of integration of Denisovans,

這五個 SNP 是來自 滅絕的丹尼索瓦人，

or Denisovan-like individuals into humans.

或與丹尼索瓦人有親緣關係的 個體 DNA 與人類雜交的結果。

This is the reason why we need to read those genomes.

這就是為什麽我們需要 讀這些基因組的原因。

To understand history,

它可以讓你了解歷史，

to understand what kind of learning process

了解基因組這套學習程序

the genome has been through for the millions of years.

在數百萬年中經歷了什麽樣的演變。

By reading a genome, it can give you a lot of information --

透過閱讀基因組， 你能得到許多資訊──

tells you the bugs in the genome --

它能告訴你基因組中的一些錯誤──

I mean, birth defects, monogenetic disorders.

我指的是像天生缺陷、 單基因遺傳病。

Reading a drop of blood

而僅僅需要一滴血的判讀，

could tell you why you got a fever,

就能告訴你為什麼會發燒，

or it tells you which medicine and dosage needs to be used

或告訴你在你生病，

when you're sick, especially for cancer.

特別是得了癌症時， 需要服用什麼藥、多少劑量。

A lot of things could be studied, but look at that:

可以研究的東西很多，但看看這個：

30 years ago, we were still poor in China.

三十年前，我們中國還很窮。

Only .67 percent of the Chinese adult population had diabetes.

只有 0.67% 的 中國成年人有糖尿病。

Look at now: 11 percent.

看看現在：11%。

Genetics cannot change over 30 years --

遺傳學不會在三十年間改變──

only one generation.

才一個世代而已。

It must be something different.

一定有什麼其他原因。

Diet?

飲食嗎？

The environment?

環境嗎？

Lifestyle?

生活方式嗎？

Even identical twins could develop totally differently.

即使是同卵雙生的雙胞胎 也可能有完全不同的發展。

It could be one becomes very obese, the other is not.

可能其中一個極肥胖， 另一個不會。

One develops a cancer and the other does not.

其中一個得了癌症，另一個沒有。

Not mentioning living in a very stressed environment.

更不用提處在壓力很大的環境中了。

I moved to Shenzhen 10 years ago ...

我十年前搬到深圳…...

for some reason, people may know.

有些人可能知道理由。

If the gene's under stress,

如果基因在壓力下，

it behaves totally differently.

它的行為會全然不同。

Life is a journey.

人生是一趟旅程。

A gene is just a starting point,

基因只是個起始點，

not the end.

不是終點。

You have this statistical risk of certain diseases when you are born.

在你出生時，就註定會有 某些疾病的風險。

But every day you make different choices,

但，你每天做出不同的選擇，

and those choices will increase or decrease the risk of certain diseases.

那些選擇會增加或滅少 某些疾病的風險。

But do you know where you are on the curve?

但你知道你在曲線上的哪個點嗎？

What's the past curve look like?

過去的曲線是什麼樣子的？

What kind of decisions are you facing every day?

你每天在面對的是什麼樣的決策？

And what kind of decision is the right one

什麼樣的決策才是對的，

to make your own right curve over your life journey?

才能為你人生旅程產生出對的曲線？

What's that?

那是什麼？

The only thing you cannot change,

你唯一無法改變的，

you cannot reverse back,

你無法逆轉的，

is time.

就是時間。

Probably not yet; maybe in the future.

目前還不能，但將來不一定。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Well, you cannot change the decision you've made,

你無法改變你已做的決定，

but can we do something there?

但我們能不能做點什麼？

Can we actually try to run multiple options on me,

我們能否對自己測試多個選項，

and try to predict right on the consequence,

試著預測正確的結果，

and be able to make the right choice?

以做出正確的選擇？

After all,

畢竟，

we are our choices.

我們就是我們的選擇所決定的。

These lady beetles came to me afterwards.

這些瓢蟲後來啟發了我。

25 years ago, I made the digital lady beetles

25 年前，我做了數位瓢蟲，

to try to simulate real lady beetles.

試圖模擬自然界的真實瓢蟲。

Can I make a digital me ...

我是否可以同樣做出數位化的我……

to simulate me?

來模擬真實的我？

I understand the neural network could become

我當然明白其中的神經網絡可能會

much more sophisticated and complicated there.

更精密且複雜許多。

Can I make that one,

但我能否做到，

and try to run multiple options on that digital me --

然後試著用那個數位化的我 來測試多重選項……

to compute that?

來計算出不同的選擇結果？

Then I could live in different universes,

那樣一來，我就可以

in parallel, at the same time.

同時活在不同的平行宇宙中。

Then I would choose whatever is good for me.

我就可以選擇對我最好的選項。

I probably have the most comprehensive digital me on the planet.

我的生命數據可能是 這個星球最全面的，

I've spent a lot of dollars on me, on myself.

我花了很多錢在我自己身上。

And the digital me told me I have a genetic risk of gout

這個數位化的我， 透過這些東西告訴我，

by all of those things there.

我有痛風的基因風險。

You need different technology to do that.

你需要不同的技術才能做到那樣。

You need the proteins, genes,

你需要蛋白質、基因，

you need metabolized antibodies,

你需要心陳代謝抗體，

you need to screen all your body

你需要掃瞄你的整個身體，

about the bacterias and viruses covering you, or in you.

來找出你身上或體內的細菌及病毒。

You need to have all the smart devices there --

你需要各種智慧的儀器──

smart cars, smart house, smart tables,

智慧車、智慧房屋、智慧桌子、

smart watch, smart phone to track all of your activities there.

智慧手表、智慧手機， 才能追縱你所有的活動。

The environment is important --

環境很重要──

everything's important --

一切都很重要──

and don't forget the smart toilet.

別忘了智慧馬桶。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's such a waste, right?

這真的很浪費，對吧？

Every day, so much invaluable information just has been flushed into the water.

每天有那麼多個人資訊 就這樣被水沖掉了。

And you need them.

你需要這些資訊。

You need to measure all of them.

你需要測量這些資訊。

You need to be able to measure everything around you

你需要能夠測量你周遭的一切，

and compute them.

並計算它們。

And the digital me told me I have a genetic defect.

數位化的我告訴我，我有基因缺陷。

I have a very high risk of gout.

我的痛風風險很高。

I don't feel anything now,

我現在感覺不出來，

I'm still healthy.

我仍然很健康。

But look at my uric acid level.

但看看我的尿酸濃度。

It's double the normal range.

是正常範圍的兩倍。

And the digital me searched all the medicine books,

數位的我搜尋了所有的醫學書籍，

and it tells me, "OK, you could drink burdock tea" --

它告訴我：「好， 你可以喝牛蒡茶」──

I cannot even pronounce it right --

我甚至不會唸這個字──

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

That is from old Chinese wisdom.

那是來自中國的古老智慧。

And I drank that tea for three months.

我喝了那種茶三個月。

My uric acid has now gone back to normal.

我的尿酸現在回到正常了。

I mean, it worked for me.

我是說，它對我有效耶。

All those thousands of years of wisdom worked for me.

數千年的智慧對我有用。

I was lucky.

我很幸運。

But I'm probably not lucky for you.

但可能對於你們來說就不一定了。

All of this existing knowledge in the world

所有世界上既有的知識

cannot possibly be efficient enough or personalized enough for yourself.

對你自己而言都不夠有效或個人化。

The only way to make that digital me work ...

要讓這個數位化的我 有效的唯一方法，

is to learn from yourself.

就是要向你自己學習。

You have to ask a lot of questions about yourself:

你得要問很多關於你自己的問題：

"What if?" --

「假如……？」

I'm being jet-lagged now here.

我現在在這裡有時差。

You don't probably see it, but I do.

你們可能看不出來，但確實有。

What if I eat less?

如果我吃少一點呢？

When I took metformin, supposedly to live longer?

如果我吃抗糖尿病藥， 會不會比較長壽？

What if I climb Mt. Everest?

如果我去爬聖母峰呢？

It's not that easy.

那並不容易。

Or run a marathon?

或跑馬拉松呢？

What if I drink a bottle of mao-tai,

如果我喝一瓶茅臺酒呢？

which is a Chinese liquor,

那是種中國酒，

and I get really drunk?

且喝得非常醉呢？

I was doing a video rehearsal last time with the folks here,

上次我和這裡的人在做視訊排演，

when I was drunk,

當時我醉了，

and I totally delivered a different speech.

我的演說完全不一樣。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

What if I work less, right?

如果我工作少一點呢？

I have been less stressed, right?

我就會少點壓力，對吧？

So that probably never happened to me,

那可能永遠不會發生在我身上，

I was really stressed every day,

我每天都非常有壓力，

but I hope I could be less stressed.

但我希望我能少點壓力。

These early studies told us,

早先的研究告訴我們，

even with the same banana,

即使是吃同樣的香蕉，

we have totally different glucose-level reactions

不同的個體也會有全然不同的

over different individuals.

葡萄糖濃度反應。

How about me?

那我呢？

What is the right breakfast for me?

一頓正確的早餐應該吃什麽？

I need to do two weeks of controlled experiments,

我需要做兩週的對照實驗，

of testing all kinds of different food ingredients on me,

測試各種不同食材的反應，

and check my body's reaction.

並檢查我的身體反應。

And I don't know the precise nutrition for me,

我不知道對我來說，精確的營養

for myself.

到底應該包含什麽。

Then I wanted to search all the Chinese old wisdom

接著我想要搜尋所有的中國古智慧，

about how I can live longer, and healthier.

了解我要如何活得更久、更健康。

I did it.

我去做了。

Some of them are really unachievable.

有些真的無法達成。

I did this once last October,

我是在去年十月做的，

by not eating for seven days.

七天沒有吃東西。

I did a fast for seven days with six partners of mine.

我和我的六個伙伴一同禁食七天。

Look at those people.

看看那些人。

One smile.

有一個人在笑。

You know why he smiled?

猜猜為何他會笑？

He cheated.

他作弊。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

He drank one cup of coffee at night,

晚上他喝了一杯咖啡，

and we caught it from the data.

我們從資料中抓到的。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We measured everything from the data.

我們從資料中測量一切。

We were able to track them,

我們能夠追縱它們，

and we could really see --

我們真的能看到──

for example, my immune system,

比如，我的免疫系統，

just to give you a little hint there.

給各位一點小暗示。

My immune system changed dramatically over 24 hours there.

我的免疫系統在 24 小時 發生了巨大改變。

And my antibody regulates my proteins

而我的抗體為了適應這樣的變化，

for that dramatic change.

開始對我體內的蛋白質進行調節，

And everybody was doing that.

所有參與體驗的人都是如此，

Even if we're essentially totally different at the very beginning.

儘管每個人的免疫系統各不相同。

And that probably will be an interesting treatment in the future

這很可能是將來治療癌症

for cancer and things like that.

或類似疾病的一個有趣方法。

It becomes very, very interesting.

這件事變得越來越有趣。

But something you probably don't want to try,

但有些方法你可能未必想嘗試，

like drinking fecal water from a healthier individual,

比如去喝健康人的尿

which will make you feel healthier.

會讓你更健康。

This is from old Chinese wisdom.

這是來自古老中國的智慧。

Look at that, right?

你看，是吧？

Like 1,700 years ago,

大約 1700 年前，

it's already there, in the book.

書籍上就有這樣的記載了。

But I still hate the smell.

但我仍然很討厭那味道。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I want to find out the true way to do it,

我想要找一種真正的方式來做它，

maybe find a combination of cocktails of bacterias and drink it,

也許用雞尾酒和細菌 來合成，再喝下去，

it probably will make me better.

也許會讓我感覺好些。

So I'm trying to do that.

我在試著這麼做。

Even though I'm trying this hard,

雖然我非常努力在試，

it's so difficult to test out all possible conditions.

但是要測試出所有可能的方法 是非常困難的，

It's not possible to do all kinds of experiments at all ...

完全不可能去做所有各種實驗……

but we do have seven billion learning programs on this planet.

但在地球上我們仍然有 七十億個學習程式。

Seven billion.

七十億。

And every program is running in different conditions

每個程式都以不同的條件在執行，

and doing different experiments.

做著不同的實驗。

Can we all measure them?

我們能不能把它們全部都量測出來？

Seven years ago, I wrote an essay in "Science"

七年前我在《科學》期刊中 寫了一篇短文，

to celebrate the human genome's 10-year anniversary.

來讚頌人類基因組的十週年紀念。

I said, "Sequence yourself,

我說：「定序你自己，

for one and for all."

為自己，也為所有人。」

But now I'm going to say,

但現在我只打算說：

"Digitalize yourself for one and for all."

「把你自己數位化， 為自己，也為所有人。」

When we make this digital me into a digital we,

當我們把「數位化的我」 變成「數位化的我們」，

when we try to form an internet of life,

當我們嘗試建構數位化生命網路、

when people can learn from each other,

當人們可以從中彼此學習、

when people can learn from their experience,

當人們可以從他們的經驗、

their data,

他們的資料來學習，

when people can really form a digital me by themselves

當人們能真正做出 「數位化的自己」，

and we learn from it,

我們可以從中進行學習，

the digital we will be totally different with a digital me.

那麼「數位化的我們」就會和 「數位化的我」截然不同了。

But it can only come from the digital me.

但它必須要由 「數位化的我」開始建立起。

And this is what I try to propose here.

這是我在這裡想要提議的事。

Join me --

加入我──

become we,

變成「我們」，

and everybody should build up their own digital me,

每個人都應該要建立 自己的「數位化的我」，

because only by that will you learn more about you,

因為只有這樣做， 你才能學到更多關於你自己、

about me,

關於我、

about us ...

關於我們…...

about the question I just posed at the very beginning:

關於我在一開頭提出的問題：

"What is life?"

「生命是什麼？」

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Chris Anderson: One quick question for you.

克里斯安德森：很快請教一個問題。

I mean, the work is amazing.

這項研究很令人驚奇。

I suspect one question people have is,

我想人們可能會有一個疑問，

as we look forward to these amazing technical possibilities

當我們在期待著這些 個人化醫學的

of personalized medicine,

非凡技術可能性時，

in the near-term it feels like they're only going to be affordable

在短期來看， 似乎只有少數的人能負擔，

for a few people, right?

對吧？

It costs many dollars to do all the sequencing and so forth.

需要很多錢才能做這些定序等等。

Is this going to lead to a kind of,

這是否會導致某種……

you know, increasing inequality?

不平等的增加？

Or do you have this vision that the knowledge that you get

或者您是否有這樣的願景：

從這些早期的志願者 身上獲取的知識，

from the pioneers

can actually be pretty quickly disseminated

快速地複製推廣，

to help a broader set of recipients?

從而幫助更廣泛的群體？

Jun Wang: Well, good question.

王俊：嗯，好問題。

I'll tell you that seven years ago, when I co-founded BGI,

我可以告訴你， 當我七年前共同創立了華大基因，

and served as the CEO of the company there,

並擔任公司執行長時，

the only goal there for me to do

我唯一想做到的目標

was to drive the sequencing cost down.

是要把做定序的成本降低。

It started from 100 million dollars per human genome.

早先的人類基因組定序要一億元。

Now, it's a couple hundred dollars for a human genome.

現在每個人類基因組只要幾百塊錢。

The only reason to do it is to get more people to benefit from it.

這麼做的唯一理由， 就是想讓更多人從中受益。

So for the digital me, it's the same thing.

所以，對「數位化的我」也一樣。

Now, you probably need,

現在，你可能會需要…...

you know, one million dollars to digitize a person.

一百萬元才能把一個人數位化。

I think it has to be 100 dollars.

我想價格得要降到一百元。

It has to be free for many of those people that urgently need that.

有緊急需求的人要是可以免費的。

So this is our goal.

這是我們的目標。

And it seems that with all this merging of the technology,

似乎，把所有這些科技結合，

I'm thinking that in the very near future,

我想，在不遠的將來，

let's say three to five years,

也許三到五年，

it will come to reality.

它就會實現。

And this is the whole idea of why I founded iCarbonX,

這就是為什麼 我會成立第二間公司 ：

my second company.

iCarbonX（碳雲智能）。

It's really trying to get the cost down

我們是真的想把成本下降，

to a level where every individual could have the benefit.

下降到人人都可受惠的程度。

CA: All right, so the dream is not elite health services for few,

克里斯：好，所以這個夢想 並不是給少數人的菁英健康服務，

it's to really try

是真的要試著去

and actually make overall health care much more cost effective --

且實際上去讓整體的 健康照護更有成本效益──

JW: But we started from some early adopters,

王俊：我們需要從一些 早期的先行者開始，

people believing ideas and so on,

從更加相信這個想法的一些人開始，

but eventually, it will become everybody's benefit.

但最終它將能夠讓每個人都受益。

CA: Well, Jun, I think it's got to be true to say

克里斯：王俊，我想這麼說不為過，

you're one of the most amazing scientific minds on the planet,

你是地球上很有 慈善心腸的科學家之一，

and it's an honor to have you.

非常榮幸能邀請到你。

JW: Thank you.

王俊：謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）