How to get everyone to care about a green economy | Angela Francis

Transcriber:

翻译人员: Yi Xuan Tan 校对人员: Grace Man

我还记得小时候 爬上家里的干衣烘柜，

那时估计只有六七岁，

我试着找到正确的方法来甩动手腕，

想像蜘蛛一样喷出蛛网。

I remember climbing to the top of our airing cupboard at home --

那时我觉得自己有超能力，

只是还不知道是什么超能力。

I must've been six or seven --

但整整一个下午， 却什么都没喷出来。

I'm trying to flick my wrists in the right way

（笑声）

to make the spider web shoot out.

最终，我还是没有 手腕吐丝的超能力。

I thought I had some super powers,

我发现在环境部门中， 与我类似的人并不多，

I just had to work out what they were.

It was a disappointing afternoon.

作为一名在德比(Derby) 长大的黑人经济学家，

(Laughter)

In the end, it didn't come with a suit,

我的经历和知识 就是我保护环境的超能力。

but I found there aren't many people like me in the environment sector

我们正面临巨大的挑战，

但它们不是不可逾越的。

and being a Black economist who grew up in Derby

许多年来，人们致力于 减缓气候变化和环境修复，

is my superpower in the fight for the environment.

他们知道我们应该做什么。

And we're facing huge challenges,

他们知道越早行动， 问题就越容易解决。

but they are not insurmountable.

People have been working on climate change and nature restoration for years

我们讨论的不仅仅是 一部分的绿色领域。

我们讨论的是如何改变 整个经济的运营方式，

and they know what we need to do,

如何通过投资和政策奖励 去选择那些减少碳排放和

and they know the sooner we act, the easier it will be.

And we're not talking about a few green sectors.

助力恢复自然的人们与企业， 而不去选择那些破坏环境的

We're talking about changing the whole economy,

人们和企业。

using investment and policy to reward people and businesses

问题在于，政治人物行动的速度和 规模并不符合我们的期望，

for the decisions they take that lower carbon

因为政府以为 人民希望他们着重于其他事情。

and restore nature rather than degrade it.

脱欧、建造更多的房屋、

The problem is politicians aren't acting at the speed or scale we need them to

经济、脱欧、

because they think the public want them to do something else first.

医疗、脱欧。

Brexit, building more houses,

（笑声）

我们怎样才能使环境问题成为 重中之重？

the economy, Brexit,

我的答案是…… 用不着那样。

health sector, Brexit.

(Laughter)

我们应从另一个角度看待这个问题。

How do we put the environment at the top of that list?

我们应该展示，绿色经济的转型

My answer is ... we don’t.

如何解决大家一直关心的一些问题。

无论他们是否关心环境，

We look at this the other way around instead.

绿色经济都能改善他们的生活。

We show how moving to a green economy

delivers on the things that people are already worried about.

我们现在需要和人们 进行完全不同的对话，

It improves their lives,

whether they care about the environment or not.

因为我们必须提倡 迅速转向绿色经济，

尤其当人们面临经济危机的时候，

We're at the point we need to have a very different conversation with people

我们不可能要求人们 把经济先放到一边。

我们必须提倡迅速转向绿色经济，

because we need to make the case to rapidly move to a green economy,

因为在民粹主义兴起之际，

at a time people are facing real economic challenges,

人们认为脱欧

and we can't ask them to put that to one side.

或禁止移民就会解决所有的问题。

And we need to make the case to rapidly move to a green economy

这是不会发生的，

我们需要给人们 切实可行的解决方法。

at a time of rising populism,

which says leaving the EU

or stopping immigration will solve all our problems.

所以我的观点是什么呢？

It won't,

我在德比长大，

but we have to give people real solutions instead.

一个位于英国中部的工业城市，

So what does my perspective tell us?

在山顶区脚下，

那里有一些英国最美丽的乡村。

我的职业生涯起源于区域经济，

I grew up in Derby,

an industrial city right in the middle of the country

我知道在区域经济的表现上，

at the foot of the peak district,

英国与其他发达的国家相比，

some of the most beautiful countryside in the UK.

有着很大的不同。

And I started my career in regional economics,

and I know the UK has got the biggest differences

财富集中在伦敦，

我们把时间花在经济上，

in regional economic performance

彷佛伦敦是唯一重要的地区。

of any economy in the advanced world.

这让人们感到沮丧，

Wealth is concentrated in London

这是非常糟糕的经济学。

and we spend our time -- concerning the economy,

长期以来， 我们忽略了农业和制造业，

that's the only region that matters.

这两个对环境至关重要的行业。

And that really frustrates people,

and it's really bad economics.

我们需要开拓可持续 生产商品和粮食的新方式。

For too long, we've ignored agriculture and manufacturing,

two of the most important sectors for the environment,

作为一名经济学家，

that need to pioneer new ways of producing goods and food sustainably.

我知道自从经济危机以来，

英国的生产力就停滞不前，

Being an economist,

而每周的平均工资也没有 恢复到原来的水平。

十年的低工资，

I know that UK productivity has stalled

这真的很痛苦。

and the average weekly wage has not recovered

所以我们需要投资我们的经济，

since the financial crisis.

这样企业的竞争就不会基于低工资，

That's a decade of lower pay.

而是基于高设计、高工程， 以及更高智能地利用资源，

And that really hurts.

这些都是实现绿色经济的关键。

We need to invest in our economy,

so businesses are competing, not on the basis of low wages,

作为一位混血儿，

but on high-design, engineering, smart use of resources,

我知道民粹主义带来的危害。

all the things we need to succeed in a green economy.

我曾亲身体验过。

我看见了人们被划分为不同的群体，

也被告知群体所面对的问题 是他们自己造成的。

And being mixed race,

I know the dangers of populism.

我知道这不会改善任何人的生活，

I feel them personally.

但环境部门还未触及到这群人,

I see people being divided

and told that some group or other is to blame for all their problems.

而我们需要解决这个问题。

And I know that's not going to improve anybody's lives,

你也许会问，

but the environment sector isn't reaching those people

我们为什么非得 现在改变人们的关注点，

and we have to fix that.

在这个人们比以往 都更关注环境问题的时候？

我们不是已经取得胜利了吗？

是的， 某种程度上，是的。

You might be asking,

我们当中有这样一些人，

why do we need to change the conversation now,

为了不让北极熊陷入困境，

when interest in the environment has never been higher?

为了不让热带雨林消失 而积极行动。

Aren't we already winning?

我们当中有这样一些人，

Yes, in some ways we are.

可以为了减少他们的碳足迹

But we have all the people

who are motivated by the plight of the polar bear

而彻底改变自己的生活方式 和所作的每个选择。

and the loss of the rain forest.

你也许就是其中的一员，

We have all the people who can change their whole life around

那太棒了，你是开拓者。

但不是每个人都能做到这样。

and make every decision

based on how they lower their carbon footprint.

而且单靠人们各自的行动 是不足够的。

You might be one of those people,

that is amazing, you are a trailblazer.

现在，我们需要其他人的支持，

But that is not a route that everyone can follow.

这些人往往更关心其他的问题：

And it is not enough to rely on what individuals can do by themselves.

要付的账单、

送孩子上学的路 繁忙又污染严重、

不适的工作、工作没有前途、

Now, we also need the backing

of people who've got other things on their mind:

所居住的小镇 关闭的店铺比营业的多。

bills to pay,

a busy and polluted route to school for the kids,

他们应该知道 绿色经济对他们是有益的。

crap job, no prospects,

他们不需要担心多一件事情。

living in a town where more businesses are closing than opening.

他们不需要感到内疚。

他们也不需要被要求 牺牲他们本没有的东西。

They need to know the green economy is going to work for them.

They do not need another thing to worry about.

就如法国黄背心示威者

They do not need to be made to feel guilty.

抗议燃料价格和 生活成本太高时所说的：

And they do not need to be asked to sacrifice something they don’t have.

“你要我们担心世界末日,

但我担心的是怎么才能挨到周末。”

It's like the gilets jaunes protesters were saying in France

如果我们不倾听这群人们，

about fuel prices and the cost of living:

你可以肯定 民粹主义者在倾听。

"You want us to worry about the end of the world

以我的经验，

when we're worried about the end of the week."

如果你想改变并说服他人，

If we're not listening to those people,

你需要与他们聊聊 他们关心的话题，

you can be sure that the populists are.

而不是你关心的话题。

In my experience,

如果你问他人，

if you want to achieve change and persuade people,

国家面对最大的问题是什么？

他们说脱欧， 目前为止大部分人都会这么说，

you have to talk to them about things that they care about,

其次是医疗，

not the things you care about.

接下来才是与犯罪、经济 同等级的环境问题。

And if you ask people,

what are the biggest issues facing the country?

与其不断地把环境问题放在首位，

They say Brexit, that's said by most people by far,

and then they say health,

我们应展示绿色经济

and then the environment comes level pegging with crime and the economy.

可以改善我们的健康、 福祉和生活质量，

Rather than constantly trying to put environment at the top of the list,

也可以创造更好的就业机会， 更好的经济

we need to show how delivering a green economy

和更多的机遇。

我甚至可以说

will improve our health and our well-being and our quality of life,

绿色经济如何能应对 脱欧带来的潜在后果。

how it will deliver better jobs, a better economy,

more opportunities.

环境政策如何做到这些？

I'd even go as far as to say

how it deals with the underlying consequences of Brexit.

我们一直被告知 拯救地球的代价太高。

这不是真实的。

How does environmental policy do all that?

对此，最好的资料来源是 全球气候与经济委员会。

We keep being told that it's going to cost too much to save the planet.

委员会包含了经济学家、

前国家元首和财政部长。

That's not true.

The best source on this

他们研究了采取行动的 所有成本和利益。

is the global commission for climate and the economy.

他们计算得出，

That's economists,

使地球保持在 1.5 摄氏度的 温度上升范围内，

former heads of states and finance ministers.

And they looked at all the costs and benefits of acting

我们所需要付出的投资， 实际上会促进经济。

compared to not acting.

And they worked out the investments we need

在全球范围内是如此，

对于如果我们不采取行动， 将会 饱受气候变暖折磨的南半球来说，

to keep the planet within one and a half degrees temperature rise

也是如此。

这些计算是基于对成本和收益 最谨慎的估计，

actually improve the economy.

And that was true globally,

不包括我们可能实现的 所有创新收益和成本节约。

and it's true for the global South that really suffer if we don't act.

And those calculations were based on the most prudent estimates

这在英国也一样。

of the cost and benefits,

我们为实现净零碳经济所需的投资

not counting all the innovation benefits

and the cost savings we're likely to realize on the way.

将在就业、机遇、健康和 福祉方面带来回报。

And it's the same story in the UK.

The investments we need to make to move to a net zero economy

这仅是气候行动。

will pay for themselves in jobs, opportunities, health and well-being.

我们越来越清楚，

我们需要共同应对气候和自然风险。

物种消失、自然栖息地减少、 气候变化，

And that's just the climate action.

这些都是由不协调的消费和 生产模式所造成的。

It's increasingly clear

we need to deal with climate and nature risk together.

如果我们能修正错误，

Species loss, habitat loss, climate change

应对气候变化可以保护自然，

are all driven by the same broken patterns of consumption and production.

投资于大自然也可以帮助我们 缓解和适应气候变化。

If we get this right,

dealing with climate change will help us preserve nature,

据英国的自然资本委员会统计，

我们每花一英镑在我们的森林、 湿地以及保护生物多样性上，

and investing in nature will help us mitigate and adapt to climate change.

就能在社会和经济方面 得到四至九英镑的回报。

The natural capital committee in the UK calculated that every one pound we spend

我所说的都属真实，

on our forests, our wetlands, our biodiversity,

但对大部分人都没意义。

gives us four to nine pounds back in social and economic benefits.

我可以说得再具体一点，

关于投资，

And I've said all that, and it's true,

我们需要在郊野投资于 房产、商业、交通基础设施，

but it means nothing to most people.

I get a bit closer.

因为这投资可以为人们和地球

If I start talking about the investments we have to make in our houses,

带来直接的利益。

our businesses, transport infrastructure,

这意味着更好的房屋、

in our countryside,

更顺畅的上班路途、

because those investments have got direct benefits for people,

更少的洪涝灾害、更清新的空气。

as well as the planet.

They mean less drafty houses,

这些是否能说服黄背心示威者？

a less stressful and congested journey to work,

不能。

less flooding, cleaner air.

讲述这些好处是不足够的。

So is that going to convince a gilets jaunes protester?

我们得展示这如何影响人们的生活。

我们不能推出为每家做隔热

No.

It is not enough to say there's all this great stuff coming.

和安装加热泵以及太阳能板的计划，

We have to show how it's going to reach people.

因为在英国， 不是每个人都拥有自己的房子，

We can't have schemes for insulating your home

而且租房者比拥有房产的人 少了 10% 的可支配收入。

and installing a heat pump and a solar panel,

which are only accessible to people who own their own home.

但租房者正是那些需要 政府政策的支持的人，

In the UK,

以确保房东能为房子做隔热。

renters have got 10 percent less disposable income

我们不可以只谈论已创造的 21 万个工作岗位，

than people with a mortgage.

And they're the ones who need government policy

以及低碳和可再生能源产业。

to make sure their landlord insulates their home.

我们也需要谈论 所谓的污染工业、

We can't just talk about 210,000 jobs which have been created,

建筑业和制造业，

如果投资于水、能源、材料效率，

and low-carbon and renewable industries.

We also have to talk about how so-called dirty industries,

并生产寿命更长和 制造更少废物的产品，

construction and manufacturing,

how they will generate better quality, highly skilled jobs

这些领域将如何创造更高质量和 高技能的工作岗位。

我们甚至还未做出基本的事项。

if they're investing in water, energy, material efficiency,

我们还没停止支持化石燃料。

in products that last longer and produce less waste.

英国的化石燃料津贴

比任何欧盟国家更高。

We haven't even done the basics yet.

We haven't even stopped supporting fossil fuels.

其中大部分的津贴是对 石油和天然气公司的税收减免，

The UK has got the biggest fossil fuel subsidies

而这是我们应该停止的。

但有一部分比较复杂。

of any country in the EU.

没有一个政治人物会停止

Most of those are tax breaks to oil and gas companies,

向一个担心支付不起取暖开销的老人 收取冬季燃料费用，

which we should just stop.

But some of it is more complicated.

除非他们先推出一项安装计划，

No politician is going to stop winter fuel payments to an old person

让老人有个温暖和舒适的家。

who's worried about paying their heating bill,

没有一个政治人物会提升燃料税，

unless they first put in place a retrofitting scheme

而我们知道这是真的，因为燃料税 自 2011 年起就未曾提升。

so that person has a warm, and comfortable home instead.

没有一个政治人物会这么做，

并真正改变拥有汽油和柴油汽车 的激励措施，

No politician is going to raise fuel levy

除非他们先提供 优质和负担得起的公共交通、

and we know that's true because it hasn't risen since 2011.

No politician is going to do that

推出报废计划，

and really change the incentives for owning a petrol and diesel car,

让人们可以升级使用电动汽车

和充电基础设施，

unless they first put in place good quality, affordable public transport,

尤其在农村地区，

这样人们就不会与店铺、 工作和学校断联。

a scrappage scheme

so people can upgrade to an electric vehicle,

在这之前，

and charging infrastructure,

电动汽车市场不会有起色，

especially in rural areas,

我们也不会享有更清洁、

so people aren't cut off from the shops and work and college.

更顺畅和更宜居的城市。

And until that happens,

the electric vehicle market doesn't take off

环境部门必须展示

and we don't get the benefits of cleaner,

它与需要这些解决方案 的人们站在同一边。

less congested, more livable cities.

我们有技术能力。

但我们现在需要社会政策和经济政策 为人们取得成效。

The environment sector has to show it's on the side of people

这不仅仅是公平的道德偏好。

who need these solutions.

We have the technical side.

这也是有效的政策。

Now we need the social and economic policies to make this work for people.

世界各地也正面临同样的挑战。

And this isn't just a moral preference for fairness.

商业也希望所投资的解决方案

This is also about effective policy.

是政府真正考虑

Everywhere in the world is facing these same challenges.

如何为变革创造条件和

如何建立广泛的公众支持的方面。

And businesses want to invest in the solutions

处理人为方面的事项 不是别人的工作，

in the places where government is really thinking

about how to create the conditions for change

那是我们环保人士的工作。

and how to build a widespread public support.

The people-side of this is not somebody else's job.

当我们讨论想成为怎么样的国家

This is our job as environmentalist too.

以及我们的政策 将如何改善人们的生活，

环境部门必须是讨论的重点。

The environment sector has to be right in the middle of a conversation

绿色转型的公平性 不是一件“有就好”的事。

about what kind of country we want to be

那是能决定绿色转型 是否能成功的关键。

and how our policies will really improve people's lives.

如果绿色转型无法成功， 我们将持续停滞于示威中。

The fairness of the green transition is not a "nice to have."

如果你像我一样， 也认真对待绿色经济的转型，

It is a thing that will make the transition happen or not.

We will get stuck in protests if we don't make this work for people.

那你需要认真地

为那些需要绿色经济的人们 取得利益。

如果无法做到这一点， 那我们就无法实现这么大的改变了。

If you're serious about moving to the green economy, like I am,

you have to be serious

所以我的超能力不是 做蜘蛛所能做的一切。

about getting the benefits to the people who need them first.

There is no way of delivering a change this big without doing that.

但我能讲述绿色经济所需的政策，

So my superpower might not be to do whatever a spider can.

以一种在德比的厂工

和坎布里亚(Cumbria)的农夫 能理解的方式讲述。

我的超能力

But I can talk about the policies we need to green our economy

不是把事情添加至 人们关心的列表中，

in a way a factory worker in Derby

而是证明绿色经济的计划

and a farmer in Cumbria can get behind.

就是立刻改善人们生活的计划。

My superpower

谢谢。

is not trying to add to the list of things that people care about,

（掌声）

but showing how the plan for a green economy

is a plan to improve lives right now.

Thank you.

(Applause)