How to get everyone to care about a green economy | Angela Francis

Transcriber:

譯者: Anderson Lin 審譯者: Melody Tang

我還記得我爬到家裡的晾衣櫃， 我應該是六、七歲吧。

我嘗試著用正確的方式彈手腕來讓蜘蛛網射出來。

I remember climbing to the top of our airing cupboard at home --

我以為我有一些超能力，

我只是需要弄清楚它們是什麼。

I must've been six or seven --

那是個令人失望失望的下午。

I'm trying to flick my wrists in the right way

（笑聲）

to make the spider web shoot out.

到最後，它並沒有符合我的期待。

I thought I had some super powers,

但我發現在環保領域像我這樣的人並不多，

I just had to work out what they were.

It was a disappointing afternoon.

作為一名在德比長大的黑人經濟學家， 是我在環保鬥爭中的超能力。

(Laughter)

In the end, it didn't come with a suit,

but I found there aren't many people like me in the environment sector

我們現在面對艱鉅的挑戰，

但是他們並非無法克服。

and being a Black economist who grew up in Derby

多年來人們一直致力於氣候變化和生態恢復。

is my superpower in the fight for the environment.

他們知道我們需要做些什麼，

And we're facing huge challenges,

也知道我們越早行動，就會越容易。

but they are not insurmountable.

People have been working on climate change and nature restoration for years

我們不只是在探討一些綠色領域，

我們在討論的是改變整個經濟，

and they know what we need to do,

利用投資和政策來獎勵人民和企業

and they know the sooner we act, the easier it will be.

And we're not talking about a few green sectors.

做出的降低碳排放以恢復自然的决定 而不是繼續破壞它。

We're talking about changing the whole economy,

using investment and policy to reward people and businesses

問題是政客們並沒有按照 我們需要的速度或規模行事。

for the decisions they take that lower carbon

因為他們覺得大眾會想要他們先做別的。

and restore nature rather than degrade it.

脫歐，多蓋房子，

The problem is politicians aren't acting at the speed or scale we need them to

經濟，脫歐，

because they think the public want them to do something else first.

健康領域，脫歐。

Brexit, building more houses,

（笑聲）

我們要如何把環境放在那張清單的首位？

the economy, Brexit,

我的答案是...我們不打算做。

health sector, Brexit.

(Laughter)

我們換一個角度來看。

How do we put the environment at the top of that list?

我們會展示綠色經濟的轉變可以解決人們擔心的問題。

My answer is ... we don’t.

它會改善他們的生活，不管他們是否關心環境。

We look at this the other way around instead.

We show how moving to a green economy

delivers on the things that people are already worried about.

我們現在需要與人們進行一次完全不同的會談，

It improves their lives,

whether they care about the environment or not.

因為我們需要證明快速轉向綠色經濟的重要性，

此時人們正面臨著真正的經濟挑戰，

We're at the point we need to have a very different conversation with people

我們不能要求他們把這一點放在一邊。

我們需要在民粹主義抬頭之時迅速轉向綠色經濟。

because we need to make the case to rapidly move to a green economy,

at a time people are facing real economic challenges,

也就是說離開歐盟或者阻止移民 會解決我們所有問題。

and we can't ask them to put that to one side.

And we need to make the case to rapidly move to a green economy

它不會，

但是我們必須給人們一個真正的解決方案。

at a time of rising populism,

which says leaving the EU

那我的觀點是什麼？

or stopping immigration will solve all our problems.

It won't,

我在德比長大。

but we have to give people real solutions instead.

它是一個工業城市在這個國家的中部，山峰的山腳下。

So what does my perspective tell us?

其中一個英國最美麗的鄉村。

我的職業生涯從區域經濟開始，

I grew up in Derby,

an industrial city right in the middle of the country

我知道英國是在所有已開發國家中 區域經濟差距最大的。

at the foot of the peak district,

some of the most beautiful countryside in the UK.

And I started my career in regional economics,

and I know the UK has got the biggest differences

財富主要集中在倫敦，

然而我們花時間在擔憂經濟的，

in regional economic performance

倫敦是唯一重要的地區。

of any economy in the advanced world.

這真的令人沮喪，一個糟糕的經濟。

Wealth is concentrated in London

and we spend our time -- concerning the economy,

長期以來，我們忽視了農業和製造業，

that's the only region that matters.

兩個在環境中最重要的領域，

And that really frustrates people,

and it's really bad economics.

需要開闢新的途逕來持續地生產商品和食物。

For too long, we've ignored agriculture and manufacturing,

two of the most important sectors for the environment,

身為經濟學家，

that need to pioneer new ways of producing goods and food sustainably.

我知道英國的生產力已經停滯，

平均週工資也在金融危機之後一直沒有復原。

Being an economist,

那是一個十年的低薪資。 這真的很傷。

I know that UK productivity has stalled

and the average weekly wage has not recovered

我們需要投資自己的經濟，

since the financial crisis.

所以企業之間在競爭的，不是基於低薪資，

That's a decade of lower pay.

而是在高設計、高工程、亦即資源的合理運用，

And that really hurts.

這些是我們需要在綠色經濟中取得成功所要的。

We need to invest in our economy,

so businesses are competing, not on the basis of low wages,

身為一個混血兒，我知道民粹主義的危險。

but on high-design, engineering, smart use of resources,

all the things we need to succeed in a green economy.

我親身感受到了。

我看見人們在分裂，

被告知他們的問題可以怪罪在一些族群上。

And being mixed race,

I know the dangers of populism.

我知道這不會改善任何人的生活，

I feel them personally.

但是環境部門並沒有與那些人有關聯， 我們必須解決這個問題。

I see people being divided

and told that some group or other is to blame for all their problems.

And I know that's not going to improve anybody's lives,

你一定會問，

but the environment sector isn't reaching those people

為什麼我們需要改變現在的議題

and we have to fix that.

當人們對環境的興趣空前高漲的時候？

我們不是已經成功了？

是的，就某方面來說。

You might be asking,

但是我們所有人的動機 都是基於北極熊的困境和雨林的消失。

why do we need to change the conversation now,

when interest in the environment has never been higher?

Aren't we already winning?

我們所有人都可以改變牠們的整個生活

Yes, in some ways we are.

並且根據如何減少碳足跡來做出決定。

But we have all the people

who are motivated by the plight of the polar bear

and the loss of the rain forest.

你可能是其中之一，那太神奇了，你是一個創始人。

We have all the people who can change their whole life around

但並不是每一個人都可以做到。

and make every decision

based on how they lower their carbon footprint.

只依靠自己的能力是不夠的。

You might be one of those people,

that is amazing, you are a trailblazer.

現在，就算還有其他事情要擔憂， 我們也需要這些人的幫忙：

But that is not a route that everyone can follow.

And it is not enough to rely on what individuals can do by themselves.

有帳單要付，

孩子上學的路上又忙又髒，

糟糕的工作，沒有前途，

Now, we also need the backing

of people who've got other things on their mind:

住在一個企業歇業比營業多的城市。

bills to pay,

a busy and polluted route to school for the kids,

他們需要知道綠色經濟會為他們服務。

他們不需要擔心其他東西。

crap job, no prospects,

不需要讓他們覺得內疚。

living in a town where more businesses are closing than opening.

他們也不會被要求去犧牲他們沒有的東西。

They need to know the green economy is going to work for them.

They do not need another thing to worry about.

就像法國的黃背心運動抗議者 在談論燃料價格和生活費用時所說的：

They do not need to be made to feel guilty.

And they do not need to be asked to sacrifice something they don’t have.

「當我們正在擔心週末時， 你要我們擔心世界末日？」

It's like the gilets jaunes protesters were saying in France

如果我們沒有聆聽那些人們， 可以確定名粹主義者正這麼做。

about fuel prices and the cost of living:

"You want us to worry about the end of the world

根據我的經驗，

when we're worried about the end of the week."

如果你想要實現改變並說服人們，

If we're not listening to those people,

你必須跟他們談談他們關心的事， 而不是你關心的事。

you can be sure that the populists are.

In my experience,

如過你問人們現在國家面臨最大的問題是什麼？

if you want to achieve change and persuade people,

大多數的人會說英國脫歐，

you have to talk to them about things that they care about,

然後他們說健康議題，

然後是環境、犯罪和經濟三者相當。

not the things you care about.

And if you ask people,

what are the biggest issues facing the country?

與其一直嘗試把環境放在首位，

They say Brexit, that's said by most people by far,

我們需要展示綠色經濟將如何 改善我們的健康、福祉和生活質量；

and then they say health,

and then the environment comes level pegging with crime and the economy.

如何提供更好的工作，更好的經濟，更多的工作機會。

Rather than constantly trying to put environment at the top of the list,

we need to show how delivering a green economy

我甚至會說它是如何處理英國脫歐的潛在後果。

will improve our health and our well-being and our quality of life,

how it will deliver better jobs, a better economy,

more opportunities.

環境政策是如何做到這一切的？

I'd even go as far as to say

how it deals with the underlying consequences of Brexit.

我們一直被告知要拯救地球的代價太高了。

那不是真的。

最好的消息來源是全球氣候與經濟委員會。

How does environmental policy do all that?

We keep being told that it's going to cost too much to save the planet.

他們是經濟學家，前國家元首和財政部長。

That's not true.

The best source on this

他們比較行動與否的成本和收益。

is the global commission for climate and the economy.

他們計算出我們需要的投資

That's economists,

former heads of states and finance ministers.

讓地球的溫度上升保持在攝氏 1.5 度內 實際上改善了經濟。

And they looked at all the costs and benefits of acting

compared to not acting.

And they worked out the investments we need

對全球都是如此，如果我們不採取行動， 全球南部地區會受到最大的影響。

to keep the planet within one and a half degrees temperature rise

這些計算是基於對成本和收益的最審慎估計，

actually improve the economy.

And that was true globally,

不算上我們在路上可能實現的 所有創新收益和成本節約。

and it's true for the global South that really suffer if we don't act.

And those calculations were based on the most prudent estimates

在英國也是如此。

of the cost and benefits,

我們為實現淨零經濟所需的投資

not counting all the innovation benefits

and the cost savings we're likely to realize on the way.

將在就業、機會、健康和福利方面為自己買單。

And it's the same story in the UK.

The investments we need to make to move to a net zero economy

這不只是氣候變化方面。

will pay for themselves in jobs, opportunities, health and well-being.

越來越清楚的是，我們需要 共同應對氣候和自然風險。

物種喪失、棲息地喪失、氣候變化 都是由相同的消費和生產模式造成的。

And that's just the climate action.

It's increasingly clear

we need to deal with climate and nature risk together.

如果我們做對了，應對氣候變化 將有助於我們保護自然。

Species loss, habitat loss, climate change

are all driven by the same broken patterns of consumption and production.

對自然的投資將有助於 我們緩解和適應氣候變化。

If we get this right,

dealing with climate change will help us preserve nature,

英國的自然資本委員會計算出，我們在 森林、濕地、生物多樣性上的每一英鎊支出，

and investing in nature will help us mitigate and adapt to climate change.

就能為我們帶來 4 到 9 英鎊的社會和經濟效益。

The natural capital committee in the UK calculated that every one pound we spend

我已經說過了，這是真的， 但對大多數人來說毫無意義。

on our forests, our wetlands, our biodiversity,

gives us four to nine pounds back in social and economic benefits.

讓我更貼近我們的生活的是，

如果我開始談論我們必須投資在我們的房子，

And I've said all that, and it's true,

我們的企業，交通基礎設施，

but it means nothing to most people.

在我們的農村，

I get a bit closer.

因為這些投資對人類和地球都有直接的好處。

If I start talking about the investments we have to make in our houses,

our businesses, transport infrastructure,

這些意味著更少的通風差的房子，

in our countryside,

更少的壓力和擁擠的工作之旅，

because those investments have got direct benefits for people,

更少的洪水，更乾淨的空氣。

as well as the planet.

They mean less drafty houses,

所以這可以說服一個黃背心運動的抗議者嗎？

a less stressful and congested journey to work,

不。

less flooding, cleaner air.

光說有這麼多好東西要來是不够的，

我們必須展示它將如何普及到人們。

So is that going to convince a gilets jaunes protester?

我們不能給你的家隔熱，

No.

It is not enough to say there's all this great stuff coming.

安裝熱泵和太陽能電池板，

We have to show how it's going to reach people.

只開放讓自己家的人使用。

We can't have schemes for insulating your home

在英國，租房者的可支配收入 比有抵押貸款者少 10%。

and installing a heat pump and a solar panel,

which are only accessible to people who own their own home.

他們需要政府的政策來確保房東給他們的房子隔熱。

In the UK,

renters have got 10 percent less disposable income

我們不能只談論已經創造的 21 萬個就業機會， 以及低碳和可再生產業，

than people with a mortgage.

And they're the ones who need government policy

to make sure their landlord insulates their home.

我們還必須討論所謂的不環保的工業，

We can't just talk about 210,000 jobs which have been created,

建築業和製造業。

他們將如何創造出更高質量、高技能的工作，

and low-carbon and renewable industries.

We also have to talk about how so-called dirty industries,

如果他們投資于水、能源、資料效率，

construction and manufacturing,

how they will generate better quality, highly skilled jobs

在那些壽命更長、產生更少廢物的產品。

我們甚至還沒有完成基本的工作。

if they're investing in water, energy, material efficiency,

我們甚至還沒有停止支持化石燃料。

in products that last longer and produce less waste.

在所有歐盟國家中，英國提供最高的化石燃料補貼。

We haven't even done the basics yet.

We haven't even stopped supporting fossil fuels.

大部分是對石油和天然氣公司的減稅，

The UK has got the biggest fossil fuel subsidies

我們應該停止這種作為。

但有些更複雜。

of any country in the EU.

沒有一個政治家會停止向一個 擔心支付取暖費的老人支付冬季燃料費，

Most of those are tax breaks to oil and gas companies,

which we should just stop.

But some of it is more complicated.

除非他們首先製定一個改造方案， 讓這個老人有一個溫暖舒適的家。

No politician is going to stop winter fuel payments to an old person

who's worried about paying their heating bill,

沒有政客會提高燃油稅，

unless they first put in place a retrofitting scheme

我們知道這是真的， 因為自 2011 年以來，燃油稅一直沒有上漲。

so that person has a warm, and comfortable home instead.

沒有哪個政客會這麼做， 真正改變擁有汽油和柴油汽車的動機，

No politician is going to raise fuel levy

除非他們首先建立起質量好、負擔得起的公共交通，

and we know that's true because it hasn't risen since 2011.

No politician is going to do that

一個報廢計畫讓人們可以升級到電動車，

and really change the incentives for owning a petrol and diesel car,

和充電站，

unless they first put in place good quality, affordable public transport,

尤其是在鄉村地區，

所以人們不會與商店、工作和大學隔絕。

a scrappage scheme

so people can upgrade to an electric vehicle,

在這之前，

and charging infrastructure,

電動汽車市場不會騰飛，

especially in rural areas,

我們也得不到更清潔、

so people aren't cut off from the shops and work and college.

更少擁堵、更適合居住的都市的好處。

And until that happens,

the electric vehicle market doesn't take off

環境部門必須表明它是站在需要這些解決方案的人一邊。

and we don't get the benefits of cleaner,

less congested, more livable cities.

我們有科技方面的。

現在，我們需要社會和經濟政策， 使這項工作為人民服務。

The environment sector has to show it's on the side of people

這不僅僅是對公平的道德偏好。

who need these solutions.

We have the technical side.

這也是有效的政策。

Now we need the social and economic policies to make this work for people.

世界各地都面臨著同樣的挑戰。

And this isn't just a moral preference for fairness.

企業希望在政府真正考慮的地方投資解決方案

This is also about effective policy.

Everywhere in the world is facing these same challenges.

如何為變革創造條件以及如何建立廣泛的公眾支持。

And businesses want to invest in the solutions

對人民而言，這不是別人的工作。

in the places where government is really thinking

about how to create the conditions for change

這也是我們作為環保主義者的工作。

and how to build a widespread public support.

The people-side of this is not somebody else's job.

環境部門必須在討論過程中

This is our job as environmentalist too.

探討我們希望成為一個什麼樣的國家

以及我們的政策將如何真正改善人民生活。

The environment sector has to be right in the middle of a conversation

綠色轉型的公平性並不是一個「有也好的東西」。

about what kind of country we want to be

它能夠決定轉型是否能實現。

and how our policies will really improve people's lives.

如果我們不為人民實現這項工作， 我們將陷入抗議。

The fairness of the green transition is not a "nice to have."

如果你和我一樣，真的想轉向綠色經濟，

It is a thing that will make the transition happen or not.

We will get stuck in protests if we don't make this work for people.

你必須認真說服那些最需要福利的人。

如果不這樣做，就不可能實現這麼大的改變。

If you're serious about moving to the green economy, like I am,

you have to be serious

所以我的超能力可能不是做蜘蛛能做的事，

about getting the benefits to the people who need them first.

There is no way of delivering a change this big without doing that.

但是，我可以談論我們需要的政策來綠化我們的經濟，

以一個德比工廠工人和坎布里亞郡農夫身份來支持。

So my superpower might not be to do whatever a spider can.

我的超能力

But I can talk about the policies we need to green our economy

並不是想要增加人們關心的事情，

in a way a factory worker in Derby

而是展示綠色經濟計畫是目前就改善大家的生活。

and a farmer in Cumbria can get behind.

My superpower

謝謝大家。

is not trying to add to the list of things that people care about,

（掌聲）

but showing how the plan for a green economy

is a plan to improve lives right now.

Thank you.

(Applause)