The Ordinary People Doing Extraordinary Things in Ukraine | Oleksandra Matviichuk | TED

翻译人员: Nan Lu 校对人员: Lening Xu

I have traveled here from Kyiv,

我是从基辅来到这里的，

where I am a human rights lawyer.

在那里我是一名人权律师。

I have been applying the law to defend people and human dignity for many years.

多年来，我一直在运用法律捍卫 人民和人的尊严。

At present, I am in a situation when the law doesn't work.

目前，我正处于法律无用的境地。

Russia’s troops are destroying residential buildings, schools, churches,

俄罗斯军队正在摧毁 住宅楼、学校、教堂、

hospitals and museums.

医院和博物馆。

They’re shooting at the evacuation corridors.

他们在疏散走廊开枪。

They're torturing people in filtration camps.

他们在过滤营里折磨人们。

They are forcibly taking Ukrainian children to Russia.

他们强行将 乌克兰儿童带到俄罗斯。

They ban Ukrainian language and culture.

他们禁止乌克兰语言和文化。

They are abducting, raping,

他们在被占领土上 绑架、强奸、抢劫和杀人。

robbing and killing in the occupied territories.

And the entire UN architecture of international organizations

而且，由国际组织和条约 组成的整个联合国架构

and treaties can't stop it.

都无法阻止它。

As a human rights lawyer,

作为一名人权律师，

I found myself in a weird position.

我发现自己的处境很奇怪。

When someone asks me how to protect people from Russian aggression,

当有人问我如何保护 人们免受俄罗斯的侵略时，

I answer,

我会回答：

"Give Ukraine weapons."

“给乌克兰武器。”

I have one question.

我有一个问题。

How we people, in the 21st century,

在 21 世纪，

will defend human beings,

我们将如何捍卫人类、

their lives, their freedom and their dignity?

他们的生命、他们的自由和尊严？

Can we rely on the law?

我们可以依靠法律吗？

Or does only brutal force matter?

还是只有残酷的武力才重要？

It's important to understand this, not just for people in Ukraine, Iran,

了解这一点很重要， 而不仅仅是乌克兰、伊朗、

China or Sudan.

中国或苏丹的人民。

The answer to this question determines our common future.

这个问题的答案 决定了我们共同的未来。

Because this is not just a war between two states.

因为这不仅仅 是两个国家之间的战争。

This is a war between two systems:

这是两种制度之间的战争：

authoritarianism and democracy.

威权主义和民主。

Russia wants to convince to the entire world that democracy,

俄罗斯想让全世界相信

民主、法治和人权是虚假的价值观。

rule of law and human rights are fake values.

Because they couldn’t protect anyone in the war.

因为他们无法在战争中保护任何人。

Russia wants to convince that a state with a powerful military potential,

俄罗斯想说服世界， 一个拥有强大军事潜力的国家，

a nuclear weapon,

即核武器，

can break international order,

可以打破国际秩序，

can dictate its rule to the entire international community,

可以将其统治强加给整个国际社会，

and even forcibly change internationally recognized borders.

甚至可以强行改变国际公知的边界。

And if Russia succeeds,

而且，如果俄罗斯成功，

it will encourage other authoritarian leaders in the world to do the same.

它将鼓励世界上其他专制 领导人也这样做。

The international system of peace and security doesn't work anymore.

国际和平与安全体系已经不起作用了。

And so democratic governments will be forced to invest their money

因此，民主政府将被迫将他们的资金

not in education, healthcare, culture or business development,

不投资于教育、医疗保健、 文化或商业发展，

not in solving global problems

不投资于解决气候变化 或社会不平等等全球问题，

like climate change or social inequality,

but in weapons.

而是投资于武器。

We will witness an increase of the number of nuclear states,

我们将目睹有核国家数量的增加、

the emergence of the robotic armies and new weapons of mass destruction.

机器人军队 和新的大规模毁灭性武器的出现。

If Russia succeeds and this scenario comes true,

如果俄罗斯成功 并且这种情况成真，

we will find ourselves in a world

我们将发现自己所处的世界

which will be dangerous for everyone, without any exception.

无一例外地对所有人都是危险的。

Unpunished evil grows.

不受惩罚的邪恶在增长。

Russian military committed terrible crimes

俄罗斯军队

in Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia, Mali, Syria, Libya,

在车臣、摩尔多瓦、格鲁吉亚、 马里、叙利亚、利比亚

other countries of the world.

以及世界其他国家， 犯下了可怕的罪行。

They have never been punished.

他们从未受到过惩罚。

They believe they can do whatever they want.

他们相信自己可以随心所欲。

I've talked to hundreds of people who survived Russian captivity.

我已经和数百名在俄罗斯囚禁中 幸存下来的人谈过。

They told me how they were beaten,

他们告诉我他们是如何被殴打、

raped, packed into wooden boxes,

强奸、装在木箱里、

electrically shocked through their genitalia,

被电击穿生殖器的、

and their fingers were cut,

手指被割伤、

their nails were turned away,

指甲被转开、

their knees were drilled,

膝盖被钻孔、

they were compelled to write with their own blood.

被迫用自己的血写字的。

One woman told me how her eye was dug out with a spoon.

一位女士告诉我她的眼睛 是如何用勺子挖出来的。

There is no legitimate purpose for doing this.

这样做没有正当的目的。

There is also no military necessity in it.

它也没有军事必要性。

Russians did these horrible things only because they could.

俄罗斯人之所以做这些可怕的事情， 只是因为他们可以。

Because for now, the law doesn't work.

因为就目前而言，法律行不通。

Although, I trust that it’s temporary.

不过，我相信这是暂时的。

The war turned people into numbers.

战争把人变成了数字。

Because the scale of war crimes grows so large,

由于战争罪行的规模越来越大

that it becomes impossible to recognize all the stories.

以至于不可能辩认出所有的故事。

But I will tell you one.

但我要告诉你一个。

This is a story of 62-year-old civilian Oleksandr Shelipov.

这是 62 岁的平民 奥列克桑德·谢利波夫的故事。

He was killed by the Russian military near his own house.

他在自己家附近被俄罗斯军方杀害。

This tragedy received a huge media coverage

这场悲剧之所以受到媒体的广泛报道，

only because it was the first court trial after the February 24.

只是因为这是 2 月 24 日之后 举行的首次法庭审判。

In the court,

在法庭上，

his wife Kateryna shared

他的妻子凯特琳娜分享说，

that her husband was an ordinary farmer.

她的丈夫是一个普通的农民。

But he was her whole universe.

但却她的整个宇宙。

And now she lost everything.

现在她失去了一切。

People are not numbers.

人不是数字。

We must ensure justice for all,

我们必须确保为所有人伸张正义，

regardless who the victims are, their social position,

无论受害者是谁、 他们的社会地位、

the type and level of cruelty they endured,

他们所遭受的残酷行为的类型和程度，

and if international organizations or media are interested in their case.

以及国际组织或媒体 是否对他们的案件感兴趣。

It's possible.

这是可能的。

New technologies allow us to document war crimes

新技术使我们能够记录战争罪行。

in a way we couldn't even dream of 15 years ago.

这在 15 年前无法想象的，

The experience of Bellingcat

Bellingcat的经验，

and other investigators convincingly proved

以及其他调查人员的经验足以证明，

that we can restore what was happening,

即使不在现场， 我们也可以还原所发生的事情。

even without being on the spot.

People are not numbers.

人不是数字。

We must return people their names.

我们必须把他们的名字还给别人。

Because the life of each person matters.

因为每个人的生命都很重要。

But we still look at the world through the lens of the Nuremberg trials,

但是我们仍然从 纽伦堡审判的角度看待世界，

when Nazi war criminals were tried only after the Nazi regime had collapsed.

当时纳粹战犯只是在 纳粹政权崩溃之后才受审的.

But we are living in a new century.

但是我们生活在一个新世纪。

Justice shouldn't be dependent on how and when this war will end.

正义不应取决于这场战争 将如何以及何时结束。

We cannot wait.

我们等不及了。

The global approach to war crime justice needs to be changed.

战争罪司法的全球方针需要改变。

We must establish a special tribunal now

我们必须立即设立特别法庭，

and hold Putin, Lukashenko and other war criminals accountable.

追究普京、卢卡申科和其他战犯的责任。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Yes, this is a courageous step.

是的，这是勇敢的一步。

But we must do it

但是我们必须这样做，

because this is the right thing to do.

因为这样做是正确的。

I have been working with the law for many years,

我从事法律工作已有多年，

and I know for sure

我可以肯定的是，

when you can't rely on legal mechanisms,

当你不能依赖法律机制时，

you can still rely, and always rely on people.

你仍然可以依靠人， 并且永远依赖人。

We are used to thinking in categories of states and interstate organizations,

我们已经习惯了 按国家和国际组织类别思考，

but ordinary people have much more impact than they can even imagine.

但普通百姓的影响力 比他们想象的要大得多。

Immediately after the invasion,

入侵发生后，

international organizations evacuated their personnel.

国际组织立即撤出其人员。

So it was ordinary people who supported those in the combat zone.

因此，正是普通百姓支持战区的人；

Who took people out from the ruined cities.

把人们从被毁的城市里带出来；

Who helped to survive under artillery fire.

在炮火下帮助人们生存；

Who rescued people trapped under the rubble of residential buildings.

救出了被困在住宅楼废墟下的人；

Who broke through the encirclement to provide humanitarian aid.

冲破包围提供人道主义援助。

Ordinary people started to do extraordinary things.

普通人开始做非同寻常的事情。

And then

然后，很明显，

it became obvious that ordinary people fighting for their freedom

为自由而战的普通百姓

are stronger than even the second army in the world.

甚至比世界上第二大军队还要强大。

(Applause)

（掌声）

That the ordinary people,

普通百姓，

at mass mobilization of ordinary people in different countries,

通过大规模动员不同国家的普通百姓

can change the world history quicker than the UN intervention.

可以比联合国的干预 更快地改变世界历史。

People in Ukraine survived also because of you.

乌克兰人之所以幸存下来， 也是因为你们。

When ordinary people in different countries started to support us.

当不同国家的普通百姓开始支持我们时。

Someone is collecting donations.

有人在筹集捐款。

Someone is writing about what is happening.

有人写出正在发生的事。

Someone is holding rallies,

有人在举行集会，

demanding their governments to supply Ukraine with weapons.

要求他们的政府 向乌克兰提供武器。

Someone closed its own business in Russia because freedom is worth it.

有人在俄罗斯关闭了自己的生意， 因为自由是值得的。

Be that someone.

成为那些人中的一个吧。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Support our struggle.

支持我们的斗争。

Make our voice tangible.

让我们的声音切实可见。

Take an active position, not just oppose.

采取积极立场，而不仅仅是反对。

There are so many things which have no limitation in state borders.

有那么多东西是没有国界限制的。

Freedom is one of such things

自由就是其中之一，

as well as human solidarity.

人类的团结也是。

When full-scale invasion started,

当全面入侵开始时，

the democratic countries said, "Let's help Ukraine not to fail."

民主国家说： “让我们帮助乌克兰不要失败。”

But we must instead think about helping Ukraine to win.

但我们必须考虑 帮助乌克兰赢得胜利。

There is a huge difference between "Let's help Ukraine not to fail"

“让我们帮助乌克兰不要失败”

and "Let's help Ukraine to win fast."

和“让我们帮助乌克兰快速获胜” 之间有很大的区别。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Democracies have to win wars

民主国家必须赢得战争，

because only the spread of freedom makes our world safer.

因为只有自由的传播 才能使我们的世界更加安全。

And this is not about Ukraine laying down its arms.

这与乌克兰放下武器无关。

People in Ukraine want peace more than anyone else.

乌克兰人民比其他任何人 都更渴望和平。

But peace doesn't come

但是，当被入侵的国家停止战斗时，

when the country which was invaded stops fighting.

和平就不会到来。

That's not peace.

那不是和平。

That's occupation.

那是占领。

(Applause)

（掌声）

And occupation, just another form of war.

占领，只是另一种形式的战争。

Occupation is not about changing one state flag to another.

占领不是要将 一面国旗换成另一面国旗。

Occupation means

占领意味着

torture, sexual violence, enforced disappearances,

酷刑、性暴力、强迫失踪、

denial of your identity,

否认你的身份、

forcible adoption of your own children,

强行收养自己的孩子、

filtration camps and mass graves.

过滤营和万人坑。

I would never wish anyone to go through this experience.

我永远不希望任何人拥有这种经历。

But these dramatic times

但是这些戏剧性的时代

provide us an opportunity to reveal the best in us.

为我们提供了一个展现 我们内在最美好的事物的机会。

To be courageous, to fight for freedom,

勇敢起来，为自由而战，

to take a burden of responsibility.

承担责任。

To make difficult but right choices.

做出艰难但正确的选择。

And to help each other.

互相帮助。

Now, like never before,

现在，

we are acutely aware of what does it mean to be a human.

我们以前所未有的方式 敏锐地意识到成为人类意味着什么。

And we have no time.

而且我们没有时间。

Time for us [is converted into] death.

对我们来说，时间 转化为死亡。

After all,

毕竟，

you don't need to be Ukrainian to support freedom and Ukraine.

你不必是乌克兰人 就能支持自由和乌克兰。

You just need to be a human.

你只需要成为一个人即可。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）