Reflections from a lifetime fighting to end child poverty | Marian Wright Edelman

翻译人员: Lipeng Chen 校对人员: Carol Wang

Pat Mitchell: I know you don't like that "legend" business.

帕特：我知道， 您不喜欢被称作“传奇”。

玛丽安: 是不喜欢。

Marian Wright Edelman: I don't.

（笑声）

(Laughter)

PM: Why not, Marian?

帕特：为何不喜欢呢，玛丽安？

Because you are somewhat of a legend.

因为您本身就是传奇。

You've been doing this for a long time,

这件事您已经做了很久了，

and you're still there as founder and president.

而且作为（儿童防护基金的） 创始人和主席，您一直很活跃。

MWE: Well, because my daddy raised us and my mother raised us to serve,

玛丽安：因为父亲、母亲 养育我们，就是为了服侍，

and we are servant-leaders.

我们就是神仆的领头羊。

And it is not about external things or labels,

这无关于外在的东西或标签，

and I feel like the luckiest person in the world

我觉得自己是世上最幸运的人，

having been born at the intersection of great needs and great injustices

出生于巨大需求和 大量不公正交织的年代，

and great opportunities to change them.

也存在大好机会让你 去改变这种状况。

So I just feel very grateful

所以，我很荣幸

that I could serve and make a difference.

可以为他人服务、有所作为。

PM: What a beautiful way of saying it.

帕特：您说得实在是太好了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

You grew up in the American South,

您在美国南部长大，

and like all children,

像所有孩子一样，

a lot of who you became was molded by your parents.

您的成长受父母的影响很大。

Tell me: What did they teach you about movement-building?

能不能告诉我，在组织筹划 各种运动方面，父母教会了你什么？

MWE: I had extraordinary parents. I was so lucky.

玛丽安：我很幸运， 我的父母很了不起。

My mother was the best organizer I ever knew.

我的母亲是我所知的 最棒的活动组织者。

And she always insisted, even back then, on having her own dime.

即使在那时，她一直坚持经济自立。

为了挣钱，她有了自己的牛奶事业，

She started her dairy so that she could have her penny,

and that sense of independence has certainly been passed on to me.

而这种独立的秉性 自然而然地传给了我。

My daddy was a minister, and they were real partners.

我父亲是牧师， 他俩简直是天作之合。

And my oldest sibling is a sister,

几个孩子中最大的是姐姐，

I'm the youngest, and there are three boys in between.

我最小，中间有仨哥哥。

But I always knew I was as smart as my brothers.

但我一直知道自己 和哥哥们一样聪明。

我从小就是个假小子，

I always was a tomboy.

I always had the same high aspirations that they had.

和他们一样，我也有远大抱负。

But most importantly, we were terribly blessed,

最重要的是，我们是最幸运的，

even though we were growing up

即便我们在一个

in a very segregated small town in South Carolina --

种族隔离严重的 南卡罗来纳州小镇上长大——

we knew it was wrong.

但我们知道，种族隔离是错的，

I always knew, from the time I was four years old,

从四岁起，我就知道，

that I wasn't going to accept being put into slots.

我才不接受成为 别人游戏的筹码呢。

But Daddy and Mama always had the sense that it was not us,

但父母一直认为这不取决于我们，

it was the outside world,

而取决于外面的世界，

but you have the capacity to grow up to change it,

但你们有能力 在长大后去改变世界，

所以很早我就开始着手于这件事。

and I began to do that very early on.

But most importantly, they were the best role models,

但最重要的是， 父母是我最好的楷模，

because they said: if you see a need,

因为父母这样教导我们： 如果你看到了他人的需求，

don't ask why somebody doesn't do it.

不要问为什么没人去做，

See what you can do.

而是看看你能做些什么。

There was no home for the aged in our hometown.

我的家乡没有安置老人的地方，

And Reverend Reddick, who had what we know now, 50 years later, as Alzheimer's,

雷迪克牧师得了50年后的今天 才为人所知的阿尔兹海默症，

他当时开始在街头游荡。

and he began to wander the streets.

And so Daddy and Mama figured out he needed a place to go,

我父母觉得他需要有个去处，

so we started a home for the aged.

于是，我们成立了老人之家。

Children had to cook and clean and serve.

孩子们需要做饭、 打扫并照顾老人。

We didn't like it at the time,

那时我们都不喜欢这差事，

but that's how we learned that it was our obligation

但这让我们明白了，

to take care of those who couldn't take care of themselves.

照顾那些无法自理的人 是我们的责任。

I had 12 foster sisters and brothers.

我有12个领养的兄弟姐妹。

有我们长大离家后母亲领养的， 也有我们未成年时母亲领养的。

My mother took them in after we left home, and she took them in before we left home.

And again, whenever you see a need, you try to fulfill it.

还是同样的原因，当他人 需要你时，你只管努力提供帮助。

God runs, Daddy used to say, a full employment economy.

父亲常说，上帝让人人有事做。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

如果你就跟着需求走，

And so if you just follow the need,

you will never lack for something to do or a real purpose in life.

你一定不会觉得无所事事 或缺少生命的真正目标。

And every issue that the Children's Defense Fund works on today

今天儿童防护基金所做的每件事，

comes out of my childhood in a very personal way.

都和我儿时的亲身经历 有着千丝万缕的联系。

Little Johnny Harrington, who lived three doors down from me,

记得与我家三门之隔， 和祖母住在一起的

stepped on a nail; he lived with his grandmother,

小约翰尼·哈灵顿踩钉子上了，

got tetanus, went to the hospital, no tetanus shots, he died.

得了破伤风，虽去了医院 但打不起破伤风疫苗，

还是死了。他才11岁。

He was 11 years old.

I remember that.

我记得很清楚。

An accident in front of our highway,

还记得我们公路上 发生的一起车祸，

turns out to have been two white truck drivers

事故涉及两个白人卡车司机

and a migrant family that happened to be black.

和一家碰巧是黑人的移民。

We all ran out to help.

我们都跑过去帮忙，

It was in the front of a church, and the ambulance came,

事故地在教堂前面，救护车来了，

saw that the white truck drivers were not injured,

看到白人卡车司机并没受伤、

saw the black migrant workers were,

只是黑人移民工人受伤后，

turned around and left them.

救护车直接掉头开走了。

I never forgot that.

我永远都忘不掉那个场景。

And immunizations was one of the first things

所以，成立儿童防护基金后，

I worked on at the Children's Defense Fund

疫苗接种就是 我要做的头几件事之一，

to make sure that every child gets immunized against preventable diseases.

要确保每个孩子都能 对那些可预防的疾病免疫。

Unequal schools ...

还有，不平等学校的事......

(Applause)

（掌声）

单独的黑人学校，

Separate and unequal,

hand-me-downs from the white schools.

比白人学校低一等， 东西都是白人学校用过的。

但我们家里总是会有书。

But we always had books in our house.

父亲特别爱读书，

Daddy was a great reader.

He used to make me read every night with him.

他常让我每晚和他一起看书，

我必须看15或20分钟。

I'd have to sit for 15 or 20 minutes.

一天，我把《真实的忏悔》 夹在一本《生活》杂志里，

One day I put a "True Confessions" inside a "Life Magazine"

and he asked me to read it out loud.

他让我大声读出来。

I never read a "True Confessions" again.

此后，我再也不读 《真实的忏悔》了。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But they were great readers.

家里人都热爱读书，

有钱的话，我们总会买书， 而不会去买第二双鞋，

We always had books before we had a second pair of shoes,

and that was very important.

这点很重要。

尽管我们黑人学校里有二手书，

And although we had hand-me-down books for the black schools

还有其它二手的东西，

and hand-me-down everythings,

it was a great need.

但我们依然很需要书。

He made it clear that reading was the window to the outside world,

他明确告诫我们，阅读 是通往外面世界的窗口，

and so that was a great gift from them.

所以说，父母留给我的 巨大财富就是读书。

But the reinforced lesson was that God runs a full employment economy,

但父母多次强调的训诫是： 上帝让人人都有事做，

and that if you just follow the need,

只要你关注他人的需求，

you will never lack for a purpose in life,

生活就永不会缺少目标，

and that has been so for me.

这就是我所信奉的。

We had a very segregated small town.

我们小镇种族隔离很严重，

I was a rebel from the time I was four or five.

我四五岁起就叛逆了。

I went out to a department store

一天，我来到一家百货商店，

and there was "white" and "black" water signs,

那里的饮水龙头分别 有“白人”和“黑人”标识，

but I didn't know that and didn't pay much attention to that,

我之前没见过，也没太在意，

而且当时我和主日学校的 一位老师在一起。

and I was with one of my Sunday school teachers.

I drank out of the wrong water fountain,

我从‘白’水龙头上喝了水，

and she jerked me away, and I didn't know what had happened,

她一把拽走我， 我并不知道怎么了，

and then she explained to me about black and white water.

然后，她解释说黑人和 白人要用不同水龙头喝水。

我当时并不知情， 就算知道，我也会那么做。

I didn't know that, and after that,

I went home, took my little wounded psyche to my parents,

之后，我回到家，带着幼小 受伤的心灵回到父母身旁，

and told them what had happened, and said, "What's wrong with me?"

告诉他们发生的一切， 问道，“我哪里错了呀？”

And they said, "It wasn't much wrong with you.

他们说，“孩子，你没有错，

是体制错了。”

It's what's wrong with the system."

之后，每到一处，我常常偷偷地

And I used to go then secretly and switch water signs

everywhere I went.

把水标换过来。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And it felt so good.

那感觉棒极了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

PM: There is no question that this legend is a bit of a rebel,

帕特：毋庸置疑，这倒是 有点像一个叛逆者的传奇，

and has been for a long time.

而且叛逆已持续了很久。

So you started your work as an attorney and with the Civil Rights Movement,

因此您成为律师， 并参与人权运动，

and you worked with Dr. King on the original Poor People's Campaign.

和金博士一起从事 早期的“穷人运动”。

And then you made this decision, 45 years ago,

然后45年前，您做出了这个决定，

to set up a national advocacy campaign for children.

为儿童发起全国性的倡议运动。

Why did you choose that particular service, to children?

为何您选了这项针对 儿童的特别服务？

MWE: Well, because so many of the things that I saw in Mississippi

玛丽安：因为我在密西西比

and across the South

和整个南方的所见所闻

had to do with children.

都和儿童有关。

I saw children with bloated bellies in this country

在这个国家，

我看到了肚子肿胀 频临饿死的孩子，

who were close to starvation,

who were hungry,

饥饿的孩子，

who were without clothes,

没衣服穿的孩子，

and nobody wanted to believe

而那时没人愿意相信

that there were children who were starving,

还有孩子挨饿，

and that's a slow process.

这是个缓慢的过程。

And nobody wanted to listen.

没有人想听。

Every congressman that would come to Mississippi,

每个来密西西比的议员， 我都对他们说，

I'd say, "Go see," and most of them didn't want to do anything about it.

“自己去看看吧”，对此， 大部分人都无动于衷。

但我看到了极度的贫困。

But I saw grinding poverty.

The state of Mississippi wanted, during voter registration efforts --

在选民登记的时候——

and with outside white kids coming in to help black citizens register to vote --

外州的白人孩子过来 帮黑人公民登记投票——

they wanted everybody to leave the state, so they were trying to starve them out.

密西西比州想要把黑人 全赶走，想饿死他们。

And they switched from free food commodities

他们从原来免费提供食品，

to food stamps that cost two dollars.

变成出售要价两美元的食物券。

People had no income, and nobody in America wanted to believe

人们没有收入，全国没人肯相信

美国竟然有人没有任何收入，

that there was anybody in America without any income.

而我却知道有成百上千 没有任何收入的人，

Well, I knew hundreds of them, thousands of them.

And malnutrition was becoming a big problem.

营养不良正成为一个大问题。

And so one of these days came Dr. King down

一天，金博士来到了南部，

on a number of things we were fighting to get the Head Start program --

一起努力为“启蒙计划”——

which the state of Mississippi turned down --

已被州政府拒绝的计划——

refinanced.

再次筹款。

And he went into a center

他去了一个由穷人社区运营的中心，

that the poor community was running without any help,

该中心没有任何外界的帮助，

and he saw a teacher carve up an apple for eight or 10 children,

他看到老师把一个苹果 切瓣分给8到10个孩子，

and he had to run out, because he was in tears.

他不得不跑到外面去， 因为他已泪流满面。

He couldn't believe it.

他无法相信眼前的一切。

But only when Robert Kennedy decided he would come --

但只有当罗伯特·肯尼迪决定过来时——

我才去解释说明“启蒙计划”，

I had gone to testify about the Head Start program,

because they were attacking.

因为他们正在攻击这个计划。

And I asked, please, come and see yourself,

我说道，请过来自己看看吧，

and when you come and see,

当你自己来看时，

see hungry people and see starving children.

就会看到饥饿的人， 和快要饿死的孩子。

And they came, and he brought the press,

他们来了，罗伯特·肯尼迪 还把媒体带来了，

and that began to get the movement going.

自此之后，这项运动才开展起来。

But they wanted to push all the poor people to go north

但他们想把穷人都赶到北方去，

and to get away from being voters.

不让他们在这个州投票。

And I'm proud of Mike Espy.

我为麦克·艾斯比感到骄傲。

Even though he lost last night, he'll win one of these days.

昨晚他虽然输了， 但他总有一天会赢的。

(Applause)

（掌声）

But you wouldn't have seen such grinding poverty,

否则，大家就看不到 如此这般的赤贫。

and the outside white kids who'd come in to help register voters

1964 年，在外州年轻白人 来帮助黑人登记投票的

in the 1964 Summer Project where we lost those three young men.

“自由之夏”运动中， 三个年轻白人因此被杀。

But once they left, the press left,

但在媒体离开后，

and there was just massive need,

只剩下大量的需求，

and people were trying to push the poor out.

人们想方设法要把穷人给赶走。

And so, you know, Head Start came,

接下来，国家开始了“启蒙计划”，

and we applied for it, because the state turned it down.

因为州政府驳回了该计划， 我们就再去申请实施。

And that's true of a lot of states that don't take Medicaid these days.

就像如今很多州不实行 美国医疗补助计划一样。

And we ran the largest Head Start program in the nation,

我们的“启蒙计划”是全国最大的，

它改变了孩子们的一生。

and it changed their lives.

They had books that had children who looked like them in it,

在书中他们能看到 长得跟自己一样的孩子，

and we were attacked all over the place.

为此，我们被攻击得体无完肤。

But the bottom line

重点是，

was that Mississippi gave birth to the Children's Defense Fund

密西西比州从多个方面

in many ways,

催生了儿童防护基金，

and it also occurred to me that children

让我突然想到，

and preventive investment,

孩子、预防性投资，

and avoiding costly care

以及避免昂贵的看护、

and failure and neglect,

虐待与忽视儿童，

was a more strategic way to proceed.

才是更具战略性的推进方向。

And so the Children's Defense Fund

因此，儿童保护基金

was born out of the Poor People's Campaign.

是“穷人运动”的产物。

But it was pretty clear that whatever you called

但很显然，不论你怎么称呼他们，

black independent or brown independent

黑人或棕色人种的无党派选民

was going to have a shrinking constituency.

会逐渐减少。

And who can be mad at a two-month-old baby or at a two-year-old toddler?

谁会对两个月大的婴儿 或两岁的小孩生气？

A lot of people can be.

很多人会。

They don't want to feed them, neither, from what we've seen.

就我们所见，他们并不想喂养他们，

But it was the right judgment to make.

但所做的决定是正确的。

And so out of the privilege of serving

我有幸在“穷人运动”

as the Poor People's Campaign coordinator for policy

担任两年的政策协调员，

for two years, and there were two of them,

那时我们有两位，

and it was not a failure,

这场运动并非完全失败，

because the seeds of change get planted

因为改变的种子已被种下，

and have to have people who are scut workers and follow up.

而且需要负责日常杂务的 人参与进来，并贯彻到底。

And I'm a good scut worker and a persistent person.

我擅长处理杂务， 而且是持之以恒的人。

And you know, as a result,

结果就是，

I would say that all those people on food stamps today

我觉得今天所有靠食物券生活的人，

ought to thank those poor people in the mud in Resurrection City.

都该感谢那些在复活城 泥泞中示威游行的穷人。

但那需要很多缜密的后续工作—— 并且这些细致的工作会持续下去。

But it takes a lot of follow-up, detailed work -- and never going away.

PM: And you've been doing it for 45 years,

帕特：你做这事已有45年，

and you've seen some amazing outcomes.

你也看到了一些惊人的成果。

What are you proudest of out of the Children's Defense Fund?

对于儿童防护基金， 你最引以为傲的是什么？

MWE: Well, I think the children now have sort of become a mainstream issue.

玛丽安：我认为现在儿童 已成为主流议题了。

We have got lots of new laws.

我们有了许多新的法律，

Millions of children are getting food.

数百万计的孩子有食物吃，

Millions of children are getting a head start.

数百万计的孩子有了良好的开端。

Millions of children are getting Head Start

数百万计的孩子参与了“启蒙计划”，

and have gotten a head start,

获得了早期教育、

and the Child Health Insurance Program, CHIP,

儿童健康保险项目CHIP、

Medicaid expansions for children.

和医疗补助儿童扩展计划。

We've been trying to reform the child welfare system for decades.

数十年来，我们一直 致力于儿童福利系统改革，

We finally got a big breakthrough this year,

今年终于有了重大突破，

and it says, be ready with the proposals when somebody's ready to move,

就是说，提前准备好提案， 只等时机成熟就立刻提交，

and sometimes it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, but you're there.

有时要等5年、10年、甚至20年， 但你要坚持，等待时机来临。

I've been trying to keep children out of foster care and out of institutions

我一直致力于避免孩子 被寄养和送到福利机构，

and with their families, with preventive services.

倡导在有预防性服务的 前提下，让孩子和家人同住。

这项提案获得了通过。

That got passed.

But there are millions of children who have hope,

数百万计的孩子有了希望，

who have access to early childhood.

他们也享受到了早期教育。

Now, we are not finished,

但我们的任务还没完成，

and we are not going to ever feel finished

我们要一直奋斗到

until we end child poverty in the richest nation on earth.

这个世界上最富有的 国家不再有儿童贫困为止。

It's just ridiculous that we have to be demanding that.

这竟然还需要我们去要求， 实在是太可笑了。

（掌声）

(Applause)

PM: And there are so many of the problems in spite of the successes,

帕特：虽然取得了成功， 但依然有许多问题，

and thank you for going through some of them, Marian --

玛丽安，感谢您正在 解决部分问题——

the Freedom Schools,

自由学校，

the generations of children now

现在一代代的儿童

who have gone through Children's Defense Fund programs.

得以参与儿童防护基金计划。

But when you look around the world,

但当你纵观世界，

in this country, the United States, and in other countries,

在美国这个国家， 还有其他的国家里，

there are still so many problems.

还存在着许多问题。

What worries you the most?

什么是你最担心的？

MWE: What worries me is how irresponsible we adults in power have been

玛丽安：在把更健康的地球 传递给后代这件事上，

in passing on a healthier earth.

当权者的不负责任让我很担心。

And it worries me when I read the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists"

当我读《原子科学家公报》时， （包含关于“末日时钟”的内容）

and see now that we are two minutes from midnight,

看到末日时钟还差两分钟就到午夜，

and that's gotten closer.

说明核战一触即发，我很担心。

We have put our future

在这个依然充斥着暴力的世界，

and our children's future and safety at risk

我们在拿我们的未来、

in a world that is still too much governed by violence.

孩子的未来和安全冒险。

We must end that.

我们必须终结这种现状。

We must stop investing in war and start investing in the young and in peace,

我们必须终止在战争上投资， 转而投资年轻一代和世界和平，

and we are really so far away from doing that.

我们离那一步还很远。

(Applause)

（掌声）

And I don't want my grandchildren

我不想让我的孙辈们

to have to fight these battles all over again,

还得从头再来为这些事抗争，

and so I get more radical.

所以我变得更激进，

The older I get, the more radical I get,

越老越激进，

because there are just some things that we as adults have to do

因为有些事是我们大人

for the next generations.

应该为后代做的。

And I looked at the sacrifices of Mrs. Hamer

看看海默女士和密西西比州 那些人的牺牲和奉献，

and all those people in Mississippi

他们抛头颅洒热血，

who risked their lives to give us a better life.

我们才有今天的幸福生活。

But the United States has got to come to grips

美国必须认真对待

with its failure to invest in its children,

自己没在孩子身上投资的问题，

这是我们国家的致命伤。

and it's the Achilles' heel of this nation.

How can you be one of the biggest economies in the world

作为全世界最大的经济体之一，

and you let 13.2 million children go live in poverty,

怎么能让1320万儿童活在贫困之中，

让孩子们无家可归，

and you let children go homeless

when you've got the means to do it?

而其实你是有解决办法的？

We've got to rethink who we are as a people,

我们得重新思考身为 这个国家人民的意义，

be an example for the world.

要成为世界的榜样，

There should be no poverty.

不该存在贫困。

In fact, we want to say we're going to end poverty in the world.

其实，我们想说的是， 我们要终结世上的贫困。

Just start at home.

就从美国开始。

And we've made real progress,

我们已经取得了实质性的进展，

but it's such hard work,

但解决孩子贫困是项艰难工作，

and it's going to be our Achilles' heel.

这将是我们最大的弱点。

We should stop giving more tax cuts,

我们应该停止给百万富豪减税，

sorry folks, to billionaires rather than to babies

大伙儿，抱歉了，应该把钱花在婴儿

and their health care.

和他们的卫生保健上。

We should get our priorities straight.

我们应该把优先顺序搞清楚。

(Applause)

（掌声）

给富人减税是不对的， 而且那不符合成本效益。

That's not right, and it's not cost-effective.

And the key to this country is going to be an educated child population,

受教育儿童的人数 才是这个国家富强的关键，

and yet we've got so many children

然而我们却有好多的儿童

who cannot read or write at the most basic levels.

连最基本的读或写都不会。

We're investing in the wrong things,

我们投资失误了，

and I wouldn't be upset about anybody having one billion,

只要我们没有儿童在挨饿，

10 billion [US dollars],

只要我们没有儿童无家可归，

if there were no hungry children,

只要我们没有儿童失学，

if there were no homeless children,

我就不会对

if there were no uneducated children.

那些富人感到生气。

And so it's really about what does it mean to live

这其实在于我们

and lead this life.

如何度过和主导一生。

Why were we put on this earth?

我们为什么出生在这个星球上？

We were put on this earth to make things better

就是要为了下一代

for the next generations.

把事情变得更美好。

And here we're worrying about climate change

我们在担心气候变化

and global warming.

和全球变暖。

And we're looking at, again, I constantly cite --

还有我时常提及的——

I look at that "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" every year.

我年年关注《原子科学家公报》。 公报的末日时钟显示：

And it says now: "Two minutes to midnight."

“离午夜还有两分钟（核战随时发生）。”

Are we out of our minds, adults,

我们这些成年人疯了吗？

about passing on a better a world to our children?

难道我们不打算将 更好的世界交给后代吗？

That's what our purpose is, to leave a better world for everybody,

这就是我们的使命， 把一个更好的世界

and the concept of enough for everybody.

和普世观念留给所有人。

There should be no hungry children in this world

以我们拥有的财富，

with the rich wealth that we have.

这世上不应该有饥饿的儿童。

And so I can't think of a bigger cause,

我实在想不出更大的原因，

and I think that I'm driven by my faith.

我认为是信仰激励了我。

And it's been a privilege to serve,

能够服务社会一向是我的荣幸，

but I always had the best role models in the world.

而我有世上最好的榜样——我父母。

Daddy always said God runs a full employment economy,

我父亲总是说， 上帝让人人有事做，

and that if you just follow the need,

只要你跟着需要走，

you'll never lack for a purpose in life.

就永远不会缺少人生的目标。

And I watched the partnership -- because my mother was a true partner.

我见证了这样的合作—— 因为我母亲是位真正的伙伴。

I always knew I was as smart as my brothers, at least.

我一直都知道，自己 至少和哥哥们一样聪明。

And we always knew that we were not just to be about ourselves,

我们一直都知道 我们不只关心自己，

but that we were here to serve.

而是要服务社会。

PM: Well, Marian, I want to say, on behalf of all the world's children,

帕特：玛丽安， 我想代表全世界的孩子，

thank you for your passion,

对您说，感谢您的热忱，

your purpose and your advocacy.

感谢您的使命和您的倡议。

(Applause)

(掌声)