Reflections from a lifetime fighting to end child poverty | Marian Wright Edelman

譯者: Sydney Fu 審譯者: Ka Chon Fok

Pat Mitchell: I know you don't like that "legend" business.

帕特米謝爾： 我知道你不喜歡被稱作「傳奇」

Marian Wright Edelman: I don't.

瑪麗安萊特埃德爾曼：的確

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

PM: Why not, Marian?

帕：瑪麗安，為什麼不喜歡？

Because you are somewhat of a legend.

因為你算是個傳奇

You've been doing this for a long time,

這事你已經做了很久了

and you're still there as founder and president.

你現在還是基金會的創始人和總裁

MWE: Well, because my daddy raised us and my mother raised us to serve,

瑪：因為我的父母 教我們的就是要服務人

and we are servant-leaders.

我們是服務型的領導者

And it is not about external things or labels,

這不在於外在的東西或標籤

and I feel like the luckiest person in the world

我覺得我是世界上最幸運的人

having been born at the intersection of great needs and great injustices

我出生在有極大需求 和極大不公的交叉口

and great opportunities to change them.

且有極大的機會去改變它們

So I just feel very grateful

所以，我非常感恩

that I could serve and make a difference.

感謝我可以服務他人 讓事物有所不同

PM: What a beautiful way of saying it.

帕：這樣說真美

(Applause)

（掌聲）

You grew up in the American South,

你在美國南方長大

and like all children,

和所有的孩子一樣

a lot of who you became was molded by your parents.

你會變成什麼樣的人

有很大一部分是由 你的父母塑造而成

Tell me: What did they teach you about movement-building?

說一下

關於組織運動 他們教了你什麼？

MWE: I had extraordinary parents. I was so lucky.

瑪：我有非常出色的父母 我好幸運

My mother was the best organizer I ever knew.

我母親是我見過最棒的組織者

And she always insisted, even back then, on having her own dime.

即使在當時 她也總是堅持要有自己的錢

She started her dairy so that she could have her penny,

她開了她自己的乳品店 自己賺錢

and that sense of independence has certainly been passed on to me.

那種獨立感肯定有傳下來給我

My daddy was a minister, and they were real partners.

我爸爸是牧師 他們是真搭擋

And my oldest sibling is a sister,

我最年長的手足是我的姐姐

I'm the youngest, and there are three boys in between.

我是家中最小的 上面還有三個哥哥

But I always knew I was as smart as my brothers.

但我一直都知道 我和我的哥哥們一樣聰明

I always was a tomboy.

我一直都很男孩子氣

I always had the same high aspirations that they had.

我一直都跟他們一樣 有很高的志向

But most importantly, we were terribly blessed,

但，最重要的是 我們非常有福氣

even though we were growing up

即使我們成長的地方

in a very segregated small town in South Carolina --

是南卡羅蘭那州一個種族隔離 十分嚴重的小鎮 ──

we knew it was wrong.

我們知那是錯的

I always knew, from the time I was four years old,

我一直都知道 從四歲起我就知道

that I wasn't going to accept being put into slots.

我不會接受被放到框框裡

But Daddy and Mama always had the sense that it was not us,

但爸媽一直都有個觀念 問題不在我們

it was the outside world,

問題不在我們 而在於外面的世界

but you have the capacity to grow up to change it,

但你有機會成長 然後去改變它

而我很早就開始這麼做了

and I began to do that very early on.

But most importantly, they were the best role models,

但，最重要的是 他們是最好的模範

because they said: if you see a need,

因為，他們說： 如果你看到有需要的地方

don't ask why somebody doesn't do it.

不要問為什麼沒人去幫忙

See what you can do.

而要看看你能做什麼

There was no home for the aged in our hometown.

在我們的家鄉 沒有老人之家

And Reverend Reddick, who had what we know now, 50 years later, as Alzheimer's,

雷迪克牧師得了我們在 五十年後的現在所知的阿茲海默症

and he began to wander the streets.

他開始在街頭遊盪

And so Daddy and Mama figured out he needed a place to go,

我父母認為他需要一個去處

so we started a home for the aged.

所以我們創立了一個老人之家

Children had to cook and clean and serve.

孩子們得要煮菜、清理、服務

We didn't like it at the time,

那時我們並不喜歡做這些

but that's how we learned that it was our obligation

但我們也因此學到

我們有義務去照顧 那些不能照顧自己的人

to take care of those who couldn't take care of themselves.

I had 12 foster sisters and brothers.

我有十二位養兄弟姐妹

My mother took them in after we left home, and she took them in before we left home.

我母親在我們離家前、 離家後收養了他們

And again, whenever you see a need, you try to fulfill it.

同樣的，當你發現有需要的地方 就試著去成就它

God runs, Daddy used to say, a full employment economy.

以前爸爸總會說 在上帝主導的經濟中人人都有工作

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

所以，你只要跟著需要走

And so if you just follow the need,

you will never lack for something to do or a real purpose in life.

你永遠不會沒事可做 也不缺人生目標

And every issue that the Children's Defense Fund works on today

今天，兒童保護基金 所處理的每一個議題

comes out of my childhood in a very personal way.

都來自我的童年 與我息息相關

Little Johnny Harrington, who lived three doors down from me,

住在我家旁邊第三間 房子的小強尼哈林頓

stepped on a nail; he lived with his grandmother,

踩到了一根釘子

他和他的祖母同住 他得了破傷風去醫院

got tetanus, went to the hospital, no tetanus shots, he died.

那裏卻沒有破傷風針可打 他便死了

He was 11 years old.

他才十一歲

I remember that.

我記得很清楚

An accident in front of our highway,

在我們家前的公路上發生起意外

turns out to have been two white truck drivers

發現是有兩名白人卡車司機

and a migrant family that happened to be black.

還有一個移民家庭 而他們剛好是黑人

We all ran out to help.

我們全都跑去幫忙

It was in the front of a church, and the ambulance came,

那是在教堂前面 救護車來了

saw that the white truck drivers were not injured,

看到白人卡車司機沒有受傷

saw the black migrant workers were,

看到黑人移工有受傷

turned around and left them.

便轉身離開，丟下他們

I never forgot that.

我永遠不會忘記這件事

And immunizations was one of the first things

我在兒童保護基金最先 開始的事工之一就是免疫接種

I worked on at the Children's Defense Fund

to make sure that every child gets immunized against preventable diseases.

確保每個孩子 對可預防的疾病都有免疫接種

Unequal schools ...

不平等的學校...

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Separate and unequal,

隔離且不平等

hand-me-downs from the white schools.

是從白人學校傳下來的

But we always had books in our house.

但我們的家裡都一定有書

Daddy was a great reader.

爸爸是個很棒的讀者

He used to make me read every night with him.

以前，他會要我 每晚和他一起讀書

I'd have to sit for 15 or 20 minutes.

我得要讀 15 或 20 分鐘

One day I put a "True Confessions" inside a "Life Magazine"

有一天，我在《生活雜誌》中 夾了一本《真情天外來》

and he asked me to read it out loud.

他要我大聲唸出來

I never read a "True Confessions" again.

我從此再也不讀 《真情天外來》了

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But they were great readers.

但父母親是很棒的讀者

We always had books before we had a second pair of shoes,

我們總是先買書 然後才有第二雙鞋子

and that was very important.

那非常的重要

And although we had hand-me-down books for the black schools

雖然我們有黑人學校的二手書

還有各種二手的東西

and hand-me-down everythings,

it was a great need.

但我們非常地需要書

He made it clear that reading was the window to the outside world,

他說得很明白 閱讀是通往外面世界的一扇窗

and so that was a great gift from them.

所以，這是他們給我的 一個很棒的禮物

But the reinforced lesson was that God runs a full employment economy,

但更深刻教訓則是 上帝主導的經濟中人人有工作

and that if you just follow the need,

你只要跟著需要走

you will never lack for a purpose in life,

你永遠不會缺人生目標

and that has been so for me.

對我而言這一向是如此

We had a very segregated small town.

我們的小鎮種族隔離非常嚴重

I was a rebel from the time I was four or five.

我從四或五歲時就很叛逆

I went out to a department store

我跑出去到一間百貨公司

and there was "white" and "black" water signs,

飲用水上有「白人」 和「黑人」的標誌

but I didn't know that and didn't pay much attention to that,

但我不知道，也沒有多注意

我和一位主日學校的老師同行

and I was with one of my Sunday school teachers.

I drank out of the wrong water fountain,

我喝水時用錯了飲水機

and she jerked me away, and I didn't know what had happened,

她猛力把我拉開 我不知道發生了什麼事

and then she explained to me about black and white water.

然後她向我解釋 水也有分黑人用的和白人用的

我之前不知道這些

I didn't know that, and after that,

I went home, took my little wounded psyche to my parents,

之後我回到家，帶著我那 受傷的小小心靈去找我父母

and told them what had happened, and said, "What's wrong with me?"

告訴他們發生了什麼事 並說：「我有什麼問題？」

And they said, "It wasn't much wrong with you.

他們說：「你沒有什麼問題 有問題的是體制」

It's what's wrong with the system."

我後來不論到哪裡

And I used to go then secretly and switch water signs

都會偷偷把飲用水的標誌對調

everywhere I went.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And it felt so good.

那感覺真好

(Applause)

（掌聲）

PM: There is no question that this legend is a bit of a rebel,

帕：毋庸置疑 這個傳奇的確有點叛逆

and has been for a long time.

且從很久以前就是如此了

So you started your work as an attorney and with the Civil Rights Movement,

你開始了律師的工作 並參與「非裔美國人民權運動」

and you worked with Dr. King on the original Poor People's Campaign.

而你和金恩博士也在 最早的「窮人運動」合作過

接著，四十五年前

And then you made this decision, 45 years ago,

to set up a national advocacy campaign for children.

你決定組織一個全國性 為孩子發聲的運動

Why did you choose that particular service, to children?

為什麼你特別選定 這樣服務，為孩子？

MWE: Well, because so many of the things that I saw in Mississippi

瑪：嗯，因為我在密西西比州

以及南方各地看到的許多事

and across the South

had to do with children.

都和孩子有關

I saw children with bloated bellies in this country

我在這個國家看過 孩子的腹部膨脹起來

who were close to starvation,

瀕臨餓死

who were hungry,

他們很饑餓

who were without clothes,

他們沒有衣服

and nobody wanted to believe

而沒有人願意相信

that there were children who were starving,

有孩子在挨餓

and that's a slow process.

那是個緩慢的過程

And nobody wanted to listen.

沒有人想要聽

Every congressman that would come to Mississippi,

只要有國會議員來到密西西比

I'd say, "Go see," and most of them didn't want to do anything about it.

我就會說：「去看看」 而他們通常都不想為此做什麼

But I saw grinding poverty.

但我看到完全的貧困

The state of Mississippi wanted, during voter registration efforts --

密西西比州想要 ── 那時正在幫選民登記

and with outside white kids coming in to help black citizens register to vote --

加上其他州的白人小孩

也來協助黑人公民登記投票

they wanted everybody to leave the state, so they were trying to starve them out.

他們想要每個人都離開這個州 他們想讓他們餓死

And they switched from free food commodities

他們出售政府提供的免費食品

to food stamps that cost two dollars.

要價二美元的食物券

People had no income, and nobody in America wanted to believe

人們沒有收入 而美國沒有人想要相信

that there was anybody in America without any income.

在美國會有人沒有任何收入

Well, I knew hundreds of them, thousands of them.

我知道數百個、數千個沒收入的人

And malnutrition was becoming a big problem.

營養不良已成為一大問題

And so one of these days came Dr. King down

有一天，金恩博士到了南部

on a number of things we were fighting to get the Head Start program --

我們在為一些事抗爭 我們要幫「啟蒙計畫」 ──

一個被州政府拒絕的計畫

which the state of Mississippi turned down --

再次籌款

refinanced.

And he went into a center

他進入一個由貧窮社區 在沒有協助的情況下所經營的中心

that the poor community was running without any help,

and he saw a teacher carve up an apple for eight or 10 children,

他看到一位老師把一個蘋果 切瓣分給 8 到 10 個孩子

and he had to run out, because he was in tears.

他必須要跑到外頭去 因為他已淚流滿面

He couldn't believe it.

他無法置信

But only when Robert Kennedy decided he would come --

但當羅伯特甘迺迪決定要來時

我開始為「啟蒙計畫」辯護

I had gone to testify about the Head Start program,

because they were attacking.

因為他們在攻擊它

And I asked, please, come and see yourself,

我說：拜託，請你們自己來看看

and when you come and see,

當你們來看時

see hungry people and see starving children.

看看饑餓的人 看看餓壞的孩子

And they came, and he brought the press,

他們來了 他帶了媒體來

and that began to get the movement going.

在那之後 這運動才開始動起來

But they wanted to push all the poor people to go north

但他們想要把所有 貧窮的人推到北方去

and to get away from being voters.

不要來投票

And I'm proud of Mike Espy.

我為麥克艾斯比感到驕傲

Even though he lost last night, he'll win one of these days.

昨晚他雖然輸了 但他總有一天會贏的

(Applause)

（掌聲）

But you wouldn't have seen such grinding poverty,

但，你本來並不會看到 如此完全的貧困

and the outside white kids who'd come in to help register voters

還有其他州的白人小孩 參與 1964 年的「自由之夏」計畫

in the 1964 Summer Project where we lost those three young men.

來協助登記投票

我們當時也失去了三個年輕人

But once they left, the press left,

但在他們離開後 媒體也離開了

and there was just massive need,

只剩下非常多 需要幫助的缺口

and people were trying to push the poor out.

大家試著要把窮人給推出去

And so, you know, Head Start came,

所以，你知道的 「啟蒙計畫」開始實施

and we applied for it, because the state turned it down.

我們去申請 因為州政府把它駁回

And that's true of a lot of states that don't take Medicaid these days.

很多不接受 美國醫療保險的州都是如此

And we ran the largest Head Start program in the nation,

我們做的「啟蒙計畫」 是全國最大的

and it changed their lives.

它改變了他們的生命

They had books that had children who looked like them in it,

他們書裡面的孩子 長的和他們一樣

and we were attacked all over the place.

而我們被攻擊得體無完膚

But the bottom line

總之

was that Mississippi gave birth to the Children's Defense Fund

就許多層面上來說

密西西比州 讓兒童保護基金誕生了

in many ways,

and it also occurred to me that children

我也出現這樣的想法：

孩子

and preventive investment,

預防性投資

and avoiding costly care

與避免昂貴的照護、失敗和忽視

and failure and neglect,

was a more strategic way to proceed.

才是有助於成功邁進的方法

And so the Children's Defense Fund

兒童保護基金

was born out of the Poor People's Campaign.

是窮人運動的產物

But it was pretty clear that whatever you called

但很清楚的是 不論你怎麼稱呼

black independent or brown independent

叫黑人獨立也好 叫混血獨立也好

was going to have a shrinking constituency.

選區將會被縮小

And who can be mad at a two-month-old baby or at a two-year-old toddler?

誰會對兩個月大的嬰孩 或兩歲的嬰兒生氣？

A lot of people can be.

很多人會

They don't want to feed them, neither, from what we've seen.

就我們看 他們誰都不想餵

But it was the right judgment to make.

但那是對的決定

And so out of the privilege of serving

我有幸在「窮人運動」 擔任兩年的政策協調員 ──

as the Poor People's Campaign coordinator for policy

for two years, and there were two of them,

那時我們有有兩位

and it was not a failure,

那運動不是個失敗

because the seeds of change get planted

因為改變的種子已被種下

and have to have people who are scut workers and follow up.

它需要有刻苦耐勞人來貫徹到底

And I'm a good scut worker and a persistent person.

我十分的刻苦耐勞 我也是個持之以恆的人

And you know, as a result,

因為這樣

I would say that all those people on food stamps today

我覺得今天所有領食物券的人

ought to thank those poor people in the mud in Resurrection City.

都該感謝那些在復活市奮鬥的窮人

But it takes a lot of follow-up, detailed work -- and never going away.

但那需要很多縝密的後續工作 ──

並且永不放棄

PM: And you've been doing it for 45 years,

帕：你做這事已有45年

and you've seen some amazing outcomes.

你也看過一些美妙的成果

What are you proudest of out of the Children's Defense Fund?

對於兒童保護基金 你最引以為傲的是什麼？

MWE: Well, I think the children now have sort of become a mainstream issue.

瑪：我想兒童在現今 大概已是個主流議題了

We have got lots of new laws.

我們引進了許多新法條

Millions of children are getting food.

數百萬的孩子現在有食物吃

Millions of children are getting a head start.

數百萬的孩子得受啟蒙

Millions of children are getting Head Start

數百萬的孩子接受了「啟蒙計畫」

and have gotten a head start,

也有了起跑優勢

and the Child Health Insurance Program, CHIP,

還有兒童健保計畫

Medicaid expansions for children.

美國醫療保險也擴及至兒童

We've been trying to reform the child welfare system for decades.

我們試著改造兒福系統已有數十年

We finally got a big breakthrough this year,

我們在今年終於有個重大突破

and it says, be ready with the proposals when somebody's ready to move,

這是「把你的提案準備好 等待有人要開始改變的時刻」

and sometimes it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, but you're there.

這有時要花上 5 年，10 年 或 20 年，但你做到了

I've been trying to keep children out of foster care and out of institutions

我一直試著不讓孩子 進到寄養和照顧機構中

and with their families, with preventive services.

讓他們可以和家人同住 並提供預防性服務

這提議被通過了

That got passed.

數百萬的孩子有了希望

But there are millions of children who have hope,

who have access to early childhood.

他們有了早期教育

Now, we are not finished,

現在我們還沒有完成

and we are not going to ever feel finished

直到兒童貧困不再出現於 這世上最富有的國家為止

until we end child poverty in the richest nation on earth.

我們都永遠都不會覺得結束

It's just ridiculous that we have to be demanding that.

這還要我們去要求 實在是可笑

(Applause)

（掌聲）

PM: And there are so many of the problems in spite of the successes,

帕：儘管有些成功 許多地問題依然存在

and thank you for going through some of them, Marian --

瑪麗安，謝謝你為我們走過這一些

the Freedom Schools,

自由學校

the generations of children now

現在好幾世代的兒童

who have gone through Children's Defense Fund programs.

得以參與兒童保護基金的計畫

But when you look around the world,

但當你看看世界

in this country, the United States, and in other countries,

在這個國家，美國 還有其他的國家裡

there are still so many problems.

還存在著好多問題

What worries you the most?

什麼使你最擔心？

MWE: What worries me is how irresponsible we adults in power have been

瑪：在把更健康的世界 交給下一代這事上

in passing on a healthier earth.

我們有能力的大人 不負責任的態度令我擔心

And it worries me when I read the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists"

當我讀《原子科學家公報》

and see now that we are two minutes from midnight,

然後看到我們再兩過分鐘 就要到午夜，我便很擔心

and that's gotten closer.

這又更近了

We have put our future

在這個被過多 暴力統治的世界

and our children's future and safety at risk

我們拿我們孩子的未來 和安全當賭注

in a world that is still too much governed by violence.

We must end that.

我們得終結這事

We must stop investing in war and start investing in the young and in peace,

我們得停止在戰爭上投資 轉而投資年輕世代與和平

and we are really so far away from doing that.

我們離那一步還好遠

(Applause)

（掌聲）

And I don't want my grandchildren

我不想讓我的孫子女

to have to fight these battles all over again,

還得再次為這些事來抗爭

and so I get more radical.

所以我變得更激進

The older I get, the more radical I get,

我越老越激進

because there are just some things that we as adults have to do

因為有些事是我們大人 得為下一代做的

for the next generations.

And I looked at the sacrifices of Mrs. Hamer

當我看到海默女士的犧牲

and all those people in Mississippi

還有那些在密西西比州

who risked their lives to give us a better life.

為了要給我們更好的生活 而冒自己生命的人

But the United States has got to come to grips

美國要為未能投資 自己的兒童這事來努力

with its failure to invest in its children,

and it's the Achilles' heel of this nation.

這是我們國家的致命傷

How can you be one of the biggest economies in the world

你身為全世界 數一數二有錢的國家

and you let 13.2 million children go live in poverty,

怎麼會讓 1300 萬的孩童 活在貧困之中

and you let children go homeless

讓孩童無家可歸

when you've got the means to do it?

而其實，你是有辦法解決的

We've got to rethink who we are as a people,

我們得重新思考身為 這個國家人民的意義

be an example for the world.

成為世界的榜樣

There should be no poverty.

貧窮不該存在

In fact, we want to say we're going to end poverty in the world.

其實我們要說 我們要終結世上的貧窮

Just start at home.

就從美國開始

And we've made real progress,

我們已有十足的進展

but it's such hard work,

但那實在很艱難

and it's going to be our Achilles' heel.

這將是我們的弱點

We should stop giving more tax cuts,

我們應該停止給百萬富豪減稅

sorry folks, to billionaires rather than to babies

大夥兒抱歉啦

我們應該把錢放在嬰孩 和他們的健康照護上

and their health care.

We should get our priorities straight.

我們該把先後次序搞清楚

(Applause)

（掌聲）

That's not right, and it's not cost-effective.

給富人減稅是不對的 而且那不符合成本效益

And the key to this country is going to be an educated child population,

受教育兒童的人數是這個國家關鍵

and yet we've got so many children

而我們卻有好多的孩童

who cannot read or write at the most basic levels.

無法讀或寫最基本的東西

We're investing in the wrong things,

我們在錯誤的東西上投資

and I wouldn't be upset about anybody having one billion,

我不會對擁有十億 或一百億元的人生氣

10 billion [US dollars],

if there were no hungry children,

只要我們沒有飢餓的兒童

if there were no homeless children,

只要我們沒有無家可歸的兒童

if there were no uneducated children.

只要我們沒有未受教育的兒童

And so it's really about what does it mean to live

這其實在於我們如何過這一生

and lead this life.

Why were we put on this earth?

我們為什麼被放在這地球上？

We were put on this earth to make things better

我們之所以被放在地球上

是要為下一代把事情變得更好

for the next generations.

And here we're worrying about climate change

我們在擔心氣候變遷

and global warming.

和全球暖化

And we're looking at, again, I constantly cite --

我們也看到，我重申── 如我時常提及的

I look at that "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" every year.

我每年都看《原子科學家公報》

And it says now: "Two minutes to midnight."

它現在說：「兩分鐘到午夜」

Are we out of our minds, adults,

大人們，我們瘋了嗎？

about passing on a better a world to our children?

難道我們不要將 更好的世界交給下一代嗎？

That's what our purpose is, to leave a better world for everybody,

我們的使命就是把一個 更好的世界留給所有的人

and the concept of enough for everybody.

並擁有「夠每個人用」的概念

There should be no hungry children in this world

以我們的財富 這世上不該有飢餓的兒童

with the rich wealth that we have.

And so I can't think of a bigger cause,

我想不到更大的使命

and I think that I'm driven by my faith.

我想我的信仰激勵了我

And it's been a privilege to serve,

能夠服務一向是我的榮幸

but I always had the best role models in the world.

我總有著世上最棒的模範

Daddy always said God runs a full employment economy,

爸爸總是說 上帝主導的經濟人人有工作

and that if you just follow the need,

倘若你跟著需要走

you'll never lack for a purpose in life.

你永遠不會缺少人生的目標

And I watched the partnership -- because my mother was a true partner.

我看見這樣的合作── 因為我母親是個真正的夥伴

I always knew I was as smart as my brothers, at least.

我一直都知道我和哥哥一樣聰明

最少

And we always knew that we were not just to be about ourselves,

我們一直都知道我們不只是關心自己

but that we were here to serve.

我們還要服務別人

PM: Well, Marian, I want to say, on behalf of all the world's children,

帕：瑪麗安，謹代表全世界的孩子

thank you for your passion,

我想說：謝謝你的熱忱

your purpose and your advocacy.

你的使命和你的發聲

(Applause)

(掌聲)