Empathy Is Not Endorsement | Dylan Marron | TED

312,007 views ・ 2018-05-18

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:12
Hi.
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I've received hate online.
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A lot of it.
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And it comes with the territory of my work.
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I'm a digital creator,
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I make things specifically for the internet.
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Like, a few years ago, I made a video series called "Every Single Word"
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where I edited down popular films
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to only the words spoken by people of color,
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as a way to empirically and accessibly talk about the issue of representation
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in Hollywood.
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Then, later, as transphobic bathroom bill
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started gaining media attention around the United States,
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I hosted and produced an interview series
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called "Sitting in Bathrooms with Trans People"
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where I did exactly that.
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(Laughter)
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And then --
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Sure, I'll take applause.
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01:00
(Applause)
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Thank you.
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And then, are you familiar with those unboxing videos on YouTube
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where YouTubers open up the latest electronic gadgets?
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Great, so I satirized those in a weekly series,
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where instead I unboxed intangible ideologies
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like police brutality, masculinity and the mistreatment of Native Americans.
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01:23
(Laughter)
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My work --
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Thanks.
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One person applauding, God bless.
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(Laughter)
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01:31
Mom, hi.
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(Laughter)
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So, my work became popular.
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Very popular.
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I got millions of views, a ton of great press
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and a slew of new followers.
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But the flip side of success on the internet
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is internet hate.
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I was called everything.
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From "beta" to "snowflake" and, of course, the ever-popular "cuck."
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Don't worry, I will break these terms down for you.
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(Laughter)
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So, "beta," for those of you unfamiliar,
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is shorthand online lingo for "beta male."
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But let's be real, I wear pearl earrings
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and my fashion aesthetic is rich-white-woman-running-errands,
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so I'm not angling to be an alpha.
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02:15
(Applause)
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Doesn't totally work.
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(Laughter)
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Now, "snowflake" is a put-down for people who are sensitive
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and believe themselves to be unique,
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and I'm a millennial and an only child, so, duh!
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(Laughter)
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But my favorite, favorite, favorite is "cuck."
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It's a slur, short for "cuckold,"
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for men who have been cheated on by their wives.
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But friends, I am so gay,
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that if I had a wife, I would encourage her to cheat on me.
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(Laughter)
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Thank you.
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Let's take a look at some of this negativity in action.
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Sometimes it's direct.
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Like Marcos, who wrote,
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"You're everything I hate in a human being."
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Thank you, Marcos.
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Others are more concise.
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Like Donovan, who wrote, "gaywad fagggggg."
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Now, I do need to point out, Donovan is not wrong, OK?
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In fact, he's right on both counts, so credit where credit is due.
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Thank you, Donovan.
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Others write to me with questions, like Brian, who asked,
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"Were you born a bitch or did you just learn to be one over time?"
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But my favorite thing about this
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is that once Brian was done typing, his finger must have slipped
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because then he sent me the thumbs-up emoji.
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(Laughter)
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So, babe, thumbs up to you, too.
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(Laughter)
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It's fun to talk about these messages now.
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Right?
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And it's cathartic to laugh at them.
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But I can tell you that it really does not feel good to receive them.
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At first, I would screenshot their comments
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and make fun of their typos,
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but this soon felt elitist and ultimately unhelpful.
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So over time, I developed an unexpected coping mechanism.
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Because most of these messages I received were through social media,
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I could often click on the profile picture of the person who sent them
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and learn everything about them.
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I could see pictures they were tagged in,
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posts they'd written, memes they'd shared,
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and somehow, seeing that it was a human on the other side of the screen
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made me feel a little better.
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Not to justify what they wrote, right?
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But just to provide context.
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Still, that didn't feel like enough.
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So, I called some of them --
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only the ones I felt safe talking to --
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with a simple opening question:
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"Why did you write that?"
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The first person I spoke to was Josh.
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He had written to tell me that I was a moron,
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I was a reason this country was dividing itself,
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and he added at the end that being gay was a sin.
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I was so nervous for our first conversation.
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This wasn't a comments section.
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So I couldn't use tools like muting or blocking.
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Of course, I guess, I could have hung up on him.
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But I didn't want to.
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Because I liked talking to him.
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Because I liked him.
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Here's a clip of one of our conversations.
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(Audio) Dylan Marron: Josh, you said
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you're about to graduate high school, right?
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Josh: Mmm-hmm.
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DM: How is high school for you?
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Josh: Am I allowed to use the H-E-double-hockey-stick word?
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DM: Oh, yeah. You're allowed to.
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Josh: It was hell.
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DM: Really?
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Josh: And it's still hell right now, even though it's only two weeks left.
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I'm a little bit bigger -- I don't like to use the word "fat,"
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but I am a little bit bigger than a lot of my classmates
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and they seem to judge me before they even got to know me.
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DM: That's awful.
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I mean, I also just want to let you know, Josh,
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I was bullied in high school, too.
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So did our common ground of being bullied in high school
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erase what he wrote me?
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No.
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And did our single phone conversation
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radically heal a politically divided country
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and cure systemic injustice?
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No, absolutely not, right?
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But did our conversation humanize us to each other
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more than profile pictures and posts ever could?
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Absolutely.
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I didn't stop there.
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Because some of the hate I received was from "my side."
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So when Matthew, a queer liberal artist like me
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publicly wrote that I represented some of the worst aspects of liberalism,
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I wanted to ask him this.
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DM: You tagged me in this post.
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Did you want me to see it?
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Matthew (Laughing): I honestly didn't think that you would.
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DM: Have you ever been publicly dragged?
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Matthew: I have been.
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And I just said, "No, I don't care."
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DM: And did you not care?
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Matthew: But it was hard.
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DM: Did you not care?
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Matthew: Oh, I cared, yes.
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DM: At the end of these conversations,
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there's often a moment of reflection.
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A reconsideration.
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And that's exactly what happened
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at the end of my call with a guy named Doug
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who had written that I was a talentless propaganda hack.
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(Audio) Did the conversation we just had --
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does it, like, make you feel differently about how you write online?
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Doug: Yeah! You know, when I said this to you,
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when I said you were a "talentless hack,"
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I had never conversed with you in my life, really.
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I didn't really know anything really about you.
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And I think that a lot of times,
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that's what the comment sections really are,
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it's really a way to get your anger at the world out
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on random profiles of strangers, pretty much.
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DM (Laughing): Yeah, right.
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Doug: But it definitely has made me rethink
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the way that I interact with people online.
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DM: So I've collected these conversations and many others
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for my podcast "Conversations with People Who Hate Me."
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(Laughter)
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Before I started this project,
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I thought that the real way to bring about change
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was to shut down opposing viewpoints
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through epically worded video essays and comments and posts,
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but I soon learned those were only cheered on
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by the people who already agreed with me.
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Sometimes -- bless you.
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Sometimes, the most subversive thing you could do --
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yeah, clap for him.
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(Laughter)
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Sometimes, the most subversive thing you could do
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was to actually speak with the people you disagreed with,
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and not simply at them.
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Now in every one of my calls,
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I always ask my guests to tell me about themselves.
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And it's their answer to this question that allows me to empathize with them.
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And empathy, it turns out,
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is a key ingredient in getting these conversations off the ground,
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but it can feel very vulnerable
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to be empathizing with someone you profoundly disagree with.
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So I established a helpful mantra for myself.
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Empathy is not endorsement.
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Empathizing with someone you profoundly disagree with
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does not suddenly compromise your own deeply held beliefs
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and endorse theirs.
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Empathizing with someone who, for example, believes that being gay is a sin
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doesn't mean that I'm suddenly going to drop everything,
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pack my bags and grab my one-way ticket to hell, right?
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It just means that I'm acknowledging
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the humanity of someone who was raised to think very differently from me.
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I also want to be super clear about something.
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This is not a prescription for activism.
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I understand that some people don't feel safe
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talking to their detractors
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and others feel so marginalized
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that they justifiably don't feel that they have any empathy to give.
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I totally get that.
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This is just what I feel well-suited to do.
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You know, I've reached out to a lot of people for this podcast.
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And some have politely declined,
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others have read my message and ignored it,
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some have blocked me automatically when I sent the invitation
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and one guy actually agreed to do it
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and then, five minutes into the call,
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hung up on me.
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I'm also aware that this talk will appear on the internet.
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And with the internet comes comment sections,
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and with comment sections inevitably comes hate.
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So as you are watching this talk,
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you can feel free to call me whatever you'd like.
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You can call me a "gaywad," a "snowflake," a "cuck," a "beta,"
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or "everything wrong with liberalism."
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But just know that if you do, I may ask you to talk.
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And if you refuse or block me automatically
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or agree and hang up on me,
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then maybe, babe, the snowflake is you.
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Thank you so much.
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(Applause)
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(Cheering)
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(Applause)
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